it's a step maybe in the right direction where you can get more cooperation on different issues. you know hopefully at some point that cooperation improves there a lot of east shoes like arms control where we need to be talking with one another so yes i mean fully it doesn't stay there and minimal cooperation but moves up so more more cooperation the u.s. and russia managed to deal with it on an issue together and now we have another nuclear crisis with north korea can the two countries go again and sit down and involve china and get the koreans to work could things out pull this off one more time. it will be it would be easier for the u.s. to deal with russia as part of a group of countries along with china japan south korea and others it is very

difficult to at the moment to have those bilateral talks. at least openly and even if you have them behind doors there are so many leaks from this administration that it's very hard to carry on diplomacy. you know with russia without that leaking so yes i think you could see in a. in a broader setting where you have other powers you could actually see improvement in the cooperation and that may build some trust back into the relationship now during the john kerry years so that this approach of working on some issues while clashing over others will actually lead to a comprehensive mending of the russian u.s. relationship but that hasn't materialized why doesn't tillerson continue working this line. well there has been you know a sea change and nobody saw this exactly coming but you know

obviously there are dead there are difference here is on the interpretation but most americans believe that there was russian interference in the elections so and they see that as an attack on american values so during the kerry years and even before that during the clinton years there was more of a willingness to in their mind reset relations after they had. deteriorated on one issue or the other host ukraine crisis and certainly. particularly now with with still the investigations on what happened in the elections going on it's very hard for tillerson or any or trump as we've discussed to make the case to the american public that we should have better relations now despite the hostility if the americans and the

russians so i say why when it came to fighting isis and now the terrorist state is all but defeated i mean should we expect the u.s. to distance itself from problems like syria and play out well there. i would say under the trumpet ministration there is been more disengagement. although there are as efforts now in the state department elsewhere to begin thinking about reconstruction in syria i would say in my own mind i think you know both russia and the u.s. have big interests and share big interests. in syria i mean both of us don't want to see more instability or terrorism but there is a huge disagreement on tactics you know u.s. is not. making it a condition anymore that assad leaves office but

nevertheless there's still strong anti assad sentiment all right matthew we're going to take a short break right now and when we're back we'll continue talking with dr massey a bar i have that iran analyst and a former national intelligence counselor and we'll talk more about the challenges said they today's world order facing stay with us. about your sudden passing i've only just learnt you worry yourself in taking your

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and we're back with dr matthew barra's a cia veteran analyst and a for our national intelligence council discussing u.s. russian spat and other issues causing global concern and with a turkey a nato member who is currently attacking the syrian kurds who are here u.s. allies is washington going to do anything about this or is it going to throw the kurds too who are lying on a to under the bus i think. washing it is very concerned about turkey. where turkey is heading. so yes there afeard stew to it to warn turkey against its attacks but you know it is a nato member when there is an effort not to alienate for further turkey there's been

you know tense relations between us and turkey for some time so i think the effort is to handle this in a very low key manner out of the public eye does the u.s. have been have enough leverage to stop turkey anyway i don't think we have the leverage you know there is. i mean in the past turkey has taken unilateral actions that have highly displeased the washington. turkey believe this is very much a threat and you know in the case of any country that believes that they face an existential threat from some source it's very hard to to deter it from carrying out actions to eliminate that threat. now for decades you've been

analyzing and predicting crisis for the u.s. government how do you expect the turkish intervention to unfold and what consequences will it have well hopefully turkey doesn't mean that it's warning the u.s. but does not. tries to avoid hitting certainly us first now. and also. draws backwards on here it's actual. actions against the kurds. you know as i say i think this is a difficult negotiation but i don't think turkey wants to completely alienate the us pentagon has recently revealed a new us to fast track which sas that interstate strategic competition with russia

and china is the number one concern for the us is terrorism no longer the biggest threat to america it isn't i mean this is a dramatic switch it on terrorism is still a big threat and you know any u.s. president does not want to see a repeat of the nine eleven episode so we have been hardening our borders. and we continue. in the middle east and elsewhere cooperated with countries who are fighting terrorism and following also. the spread of extreme extremism in the u.s. or elsewhere to try to date and to any terrorist attacks but increasingly you know u.s. is foreign policy lead. believes that we're falling behind china

on technology certain technologies or that they're moving at ahead on certain technologies. and they actually despite having lots of problems with how foreign policy is executed under president trump actually the foreign policy elite both republican and democrat would agree with those statements in the national defense strategy. to us and in fact abandoning the war on terror are returning to a cold war type of thinking and if so why i wouldn't say it's abandoning tolly as i talked earlier but i do think that it does worry that. if it's margin i mean the u.s. believes and if you go back to the past twenty years you know there was a period in the ninety's when the u.s. believed it was a unit polar power so clearly above every other power in the world and able to take

unilateral action what you've seen in the last decade or two is the fact u.s. seeing china particularly a rise very quickly and there is a war a on the economic side you know china is six seven years away from becoming the biggest economic power in market value terms so that is the concern i think were approaching in an interesting way another spot nick moment. as you remember in the fifty's when the u.s. worried it was falling behind the soviet union and technology development. russia and china are cold revisionist powerset want to shape the world under their modelling the latest us to fan strategy so to me it sounds that an american mindset

there is to american will do which is right and there is all the rest which are incorrect or adversary revisionist and need to be confronted how can the us exist in a multiple reality with this type of uni polar mentality well that's that's a big difficulty and that's something that. i've been worried about for years because i think the us is going to remain a great power in whatever sort of. world order we have but if it continues to play its cards you know like it did in the ninety's will leaving it had was a unit or power and could do these things unilaterally and i think we. could be in for a rough ride because i don't think it's just china or russia but i don't think other powers want to see you know whole or world with the u.s.

as the power now in your book the future declassified you say that america has to take charge and direct the needed changes in the world what about all the countries of the world that aren't excited about the american direction i mean do you think they should be forced into following america's elite no i mean i think way you earlier said about a poly centric world is correct and if you have a policy centric world then that means that the u.s.'s to sit down with other powers. and players in the world and we have to think about how we can work together we do have an enormous number of and we've talked about some of these shared interests so the effort should be thinking about.