claimer om at the end of the program i'm. going to have braun go thank you. but yeah i mean they have their corporate you know i'll give another for instance you know m s n b c it's owned by comcast you've not seen an honest report on net neutrality from m s n b c you haven't really seen it in any of the corporate media but especially not from them because they're owned by comcast a very anti net neutrality company you know when dapple was going on all of the corporate media fox news c.n.n. m s n b c they're all funded in large part by ole oil and gas companies so of course they're not going to tell you what's going on in terms of oil water protests where do you hear about that you hear about that from the journalists that are on the ground you know what on sloshed we're on on that good man and i'm not even like that on that point i do remember watching across the board and almost one of those rare moments of unity everybody said it to important. period we didn't get anything more than that ok i learned more about net neutrality

listening to the jimmy door show it was an excellent program on net neutrality learned an enormous amount then ok it was probably me let me go back to you one of the things that i find really disturbing in our political discourse is that everyone if you post someone they're a traitor they act in a treasonous way and i criticize donald trump for that and i certainly i certainly criticize and this n.b.c. and c.n.n. for peddling the same thing go ahead rob. well one of the things that really used to infuriate me when i was a regular contributor to fox i've always been a democrat is i had people that would suddenly contact me on facebook or via twitter or they are e-mail and say i can't believe you're a traitor and you're on fox and then i will would respond and say well how did you see me when i was on this week no i won't watch it well then how do you know what i'm saying or what i'm contributing and really as a result of fox i've met

a lot of interesting conservative people that i never would have met who follow me on twitter or i've spoken to on sirius radio and i really enjoy the interaction between us one of the things i think that we have to make the distinction about also is that there are news shows and there are opinion shows the problem is that the opinion shows have taken over and the news shows many of them are letting too many opinions creep in and it can be with a raised eyebrow or an inflection and that's wrong if you're supposed to be a reporter and you're giving the news and you're supposed to let the you know or the reader let me say i've been here before you could write that you know we were going to bring but i can't think particularly with this russia gate thing and it was a liberal corporate stations facts get in the way of spin for them and i think that's why you get so few facts i mean the memo the contents of the memo was an really discussed but it was. the timing of it well i know we have the memo we can read it

we can talk about it now but would we'll have to wait for the democratic one i mean this is what you're against me gentlemen we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the media and their divide in america stay with art. i'm completely confused about why a republican administration made a change that was the same surely. part of the democratic philosophy i can only think that's our way deep within what they call the deep state the u.s. treasury there were left leaning bureaucrats who implemented this change to a territoriality based system of taxation without anybody actually being aware of

what was going on. welcome back across like we're all things considered i'm peter remind you we're discussing the media and the divide in america. let me go to you in new york here i asked rob about using the word traitor and being considered treacherous or treasonous here it's very difficult to have a conversation with someone after you have called them that ok and this is what i find very dangerous i mean i can give you a real life example you know from the great saga called russia russia russia ok and all of the name calling of leaders around the world and then how. you sit down and talk ok and i think that this is what's really foolish about journalism when you

get that's hyperventilation that you know you get the the adrenaline rush and you feel really great but then when you you know think about what you just said and you're supposed to be some kind of. play of some kind of public role adding value to the public sphere and then you call he's a traitor or you're a traitor you know it doesn't get down to it's not disagreeing with someone now it is the you're morally. unacceptable that's not what we should do in journalism go ahead who you. well i think that the problem is the word moderate has become a dirty word i think that the left has gone far to the left i think the right has gone far to the right even to the point where you have republican ton of republican infighting i mean we've got phrases like rhino sellout republicans anytime you know they want to make a deal with the democrats so that's kind of the world that we're operating in right now but unfortunately it's being fuel i think more or less because the larger and

the larger percentage of mainstream media sources although that's kind of a dirty word that we don't always like to use are so skewed against the president you know they've been trying to undermine president trump this entire time so that's why they're reporting right now it isn't really necessarily reporting it's one hundred percent spin it's almost like their news programs have become opinion programs and there isn't really a lot of you know let's say moderate or middle of the road news that exist anymore in america you know ron i saw trey gowdy on face the nation the country needs more people like that you may disagree with his politics but at least he listened to hard questions and he acknowledged. some give and take which was so it's so refreshing to see it was a really remarkable moment but you know what what i would get if we compare let's say hannity and rachel maddow you know both of them have one thing in common one

phrase our democracy is at stake our democracy is being threatened but for very very different ways again maybe i'm off on this here but it's the status quo the new status quo that's coming into being that they don't seem to understand here you know we have a f.b.i. that has gone rogue it's been gotten rogue for a long time it's nothing new it's just the curtain is revealed this isn't going on a long time to ideas and then maybe remember j. edgar hoover i mean i do ok guys i child at least ok so i mean you know using this you know. our democracy is is under threat and i find that really hard to believe in and i thought it very disingenuous go ahead ron. i'm one hundred percent with you and fact whenever somebody says to me hey trump hijacked our democracy you know i don't like trump but my response is well we were kind of overdue to look into a new one anyway so maybe that's a blessing in this midnight and you hit the nail on the head with the status quo comment peter what nobody really wants to talk about in the corporate media is that

the status quo is broken and ileo i would say to you you know i think on a lot of issues we probably don't see eye to eye but i think that the reason that moderate has become a quote unquote dirty word isn't necessarily because being moderate is right or wrong but because the status quo is so completely broken and people are disenfranchised as a response to that you know donald trump ran on this idea of some kind of outsider some kind of you know guy that was really going to disrupt the status quo you know and whether folks bought that or not you know i personally didn't i don't think that's what he is at all but that's what he ran on and that's what he sold and people bought into that because they're so tired of the status quo and neoliberalism ok well rob who has done it on some levels though continue go ahead julio's that he has done it already or the longer wall

we've seen is for he going to go ahead go ahead go ahead to new york go ahead. ok i'm sorry i apologize if the delay i'm sorry nobody has done that on some levels and i think that that's the reason why there's been so much opposition to him you know it because we're going to finally i think they're going to do this to themselves i think the elements that were anti trump are going to lead to you know uncovering a lot of the things that went on during the obama administration you know things that were conducted by hillary clinton things that were conducted by barack obama the justice department you know on the right a lynch eric holder all this information is going to come out as a result of their crybaby and being anti trump because he was openly seen as a threat because he's not really necessarily in bed with you have a lot of these people that well for you bring up you bring up a really interesting point and let me go to rob right now because it's something that i've been mulling over quite a bit in again it's this memo issue here is that you know it seems to me and i read

the memo very carefully and i find it very believable ok i've been for unfortunately i'm have to follow the story twenty four seven is forced on you it's and it's a fictitious story but what isn't fictitious is malfeasance at the highest level of the d.o.j. and the f.b.i. i mean i'm i'm convinced of that and i thought the memo was very well laid out and a very interesting narrative but rob the problem is is the mainstream media just denies it and i find that this is what the part of this cultural civil war that is brewing in the united states is that you're going to you do have a part of the population of the public that is aware of these what i think are reasonable facts to believe and then you have the corporatists here in the media denying it and i think that you can't it can't be that can't be elevated in the air for very long because people are going to say well i mean flynn is going to go to jail matter for it's going to go to jail but comi lied clinton lied to the f.b.i.

and they're not going to go to jail and at that point there's going to be a train wreck go ahead rob. first of all i think we're getting into way too much supposition which is a big problem right now in the media the media shouldn't be acting on either side be it right or left or whomever absolute judge jury and executioner absolutely and comparative ok and i just as an aside i'm sorry but i've been chuckling about this when i j. edgar hoover got mentioned i thought what kind of nickname would trump come up with him cross dressing j. edgar but anyway. and i'm going to get a little to gentle here peter ok to ron and julio but one of the things that really bugs me and i feel that people who do what we do at least at the highest echelons and i'm talking about the highest paid people like a mad cow or or sean hannity if i were king i would force them to get on the third

avenue bus with me where it originates way down in the bowery and ride it all the way up to one hundred twenty fifth street a couple of times a week because i like to do that i get stories there i meet people there and i interact with the actual public that i then speak to on radio television or via a column and i think that if you're going to call yourself a journalist and you don't do that and instead you ride around in a limousine and make your thirty million a year or whatever it's going to be i don't understand how you feel that you can aptly communicate with the public so i think we have a big problem there i mean it's kind of like being a professional athlete now i mean are you really in touch with your fan base yeah i mean being a being a journalist in television is just another word for being a high paid celebrity ok i suppose you know they're going to have their own you know celebrity awards were but he shows up ok but you know. this is one of the things that i find worrisome is that you have

a corporate media that has no interest in the public whatsoever they have a bottom line. they have their donors they have the sponsors and all that i mean they. them that system is perfected here but they get further and further away because i am convinced that it was the corporate media that elected donald trump by calling the rest of us deplorable and running with the smearing at us and laughing at us and talking down to and i think that i'm from the midwest people don't like to be talked that way from both coasts ok it's going to happen again in twenty twenty if they don't change their tune go ahead ron yeah you know i don't disagree with that i mean i do think that the corporate media did elect donald trump and this is you know just the whole model you know i say that if you want to democratic experiment to be successful and you have the media structure that we have in the united states that would be a lot like wanting to open a gourmet restaurant and cooking exclusively with spam and no other ingredient i

mean it's just not it's just not the right kind of structure to have this is side and we want the one silver lining in all that though is that i mean people are leaving cable television news dro i mean the confidence in cable news gets lower and lower every year there's academic studies that come out constantly there was a harvard study recently that revealed that what the media talks about and what people actually care about is so disproportional it's about about seventy five percent to six percent and that's why people like me have a job they have pets why well you know that's why there's shows on you tube that are sustainable now or so thirsty for actual news and they're finding it i'll give you mark dice i mean his daily. video i mean he can he's competing with the major networks this one guy ok i mean you did jimmy door does very well any time jordan

peterson is on anyone's program that the hits go through the ceiling here you know i'm agreeing with ron let me go to ron let me go to rob because i think you know people are so desperate to hear different voices and stop being spin pounded down your throat all the time go ahead rob. well the last time i was on the show what we discuss is one of my favorite lines from the classic film broadcast news is albert brooks says you know we're in trouble when we become more important than the story and there is way too much spin and we were also it's it's become so much about ratings and i started in scripted television on comedy shows and you know i learned early you know well it doesn't matter if you're funny or if it's good what one of the ratings and one of the nielsen say and. so you're striving for that rather than ultimately delivering the news or the real story and

again from both sides i have to have certain sources i've used and boy oh boy have they been wrong but in the first week of december i sat down and have had an interview with with an attorney who is really plugged in and he was telling me too in two weeks kirschner is going to be indicted well you know look i mean the things hang on her ground i got to go i got to just be here guys we've run out of time i certainly miss walter cronkite many thanks to my guests to new york and in los angeles and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our d.c. unix times and remember. the best out of the just. the concepts. to

perform. how i passed my son. i'm sorry. i'm so sorry trust me. i was listening to. this in home about stem. her. scanty was. she had the goods sewed on. so we'll see. what. was it he could with us he was just that yes. to finish your. education. i never knew.

i could. meet the man. i'm not the never to get caught i'm. going on i'm nancy. i'm. alone while come to worlds apart from the publication of panama papers produced

a lot of moral argument but very few legal ones that's because as much as the authorities may be compelled to deride offshore financing in reality they do little to stop by how much has the discussion about tax avoidance become a distraction from mismanaging money on shore well to discuss that i'm now joined by anthony. travers senior partner at an offshore law firm based in the cayman islands one of the world's most popular offshore destinations mr travers it's good to talk to you thank you very much for your time morning now you made the point in one of your articles that the reason why the governments especially in europe dislike offshore financing so much is pure jealousy and resentment as you put it it reveals the fear and loathing which resides within the e.u. off any jurisdiction beach can demonstrate its excesses without the imposition of unreasonably high taxation but isn't high taxation in france in germany the

very thing that allows the cayman islands to do so well no not not really that is a popularly held misconception what the cayman islands dollars is structure international capital flows through vehicles which are formed under its very specific lords into jurisdictions where the markets exist for example the united states united kingdom even europe. china or wherever but it does it in a tax efficient way on the understanding that the investments that are made in those jurisdictions will pay tax in accordance with the laws of those jurisdictions it's efficient structuring that is the basis of the cayman island success story well but i'm not suggesting that that became a law islands or any other destination for example in the caribbean i doing anything illegal i'm just asking whether you think they're essentially capitalizing on the inefficiency of others is it just a matter of tax competition for you that they certainly do capitalize on the

inefficiency with regard to the ability to create efficient legal structures for what investment that's the key point the cayman islands has a common law system which is very very well respected and is very attractive to international investors who wish to find a. restriction in which they can pool their money for on what investment well let's explore the attractiveness of those investments a little bit because i have a few rich friends in france who let's say explored offshore financing and the argument essentially comes down to why should i give away our ports of fifty or even seventy percent of my hard earned money to the government which doesn't sweat equally as much to manage my taxes essentially to make the point that governments in europe tags to cover their own inefficiency is that something that strikes a chord to be of you know not a tool the what you have to understand is that is

a popularly held misconception anyone in france or any other jurisdiction in the world investing through a cayman island structure will pay tax firstly in the jurisdiction where the investment is made in accordance with the laws of that jurisdiction and secondly they will pay tax in france when the net profits and distribute it to them the purpose of the cayman islands is to provide a highly functional efficient conduit for the structuring of those pooled investments but am i mistaken in thinking that became an audience for example would not would also not tax. either his income or his possession of income and. offer a certain benefits but it doesn't offer any tax benefit or tool other than the profits of the investment made in the united states united kingdom china wherever

are not tax free times they're certainly taxed once where the profit is made in the market in question and they're certainly taxed a second time when the net profit to distribute it to the investor the point about the cayman islands is it doesn't add a third unnecessary layer of taxation now at the heart of this whole offshore controversy lies the. question of whether one should keep money or pay taxes in the country where that money is earned and obviously we live in a globalized economy but we also will still leave in our home countries that home cities that need to be taken care off how do you see the balance between the two well i don't think the cayman islands has any bearing on that question at all. in no way does an investor coming into a cayman island structure avoid tax in his own jurisdiction the what what you're talking about is the old school notion of tax evasion but the cayman islands has

full text transparency with most jurisdictions united states united kingdom european jurisdictions and so there is no tax advantage to investing in the cayman islands and no one is reducing the tax that would otherwise be paid in the jurisdiction of the investor by using the cayman islands but mr travers i think one of the advantages would be the interact taxation model that the cayman islands has been relying on for two hundred years as you often point out that many of your speeches and that's a section essential of taxing goods and services rather than taxing people's incomes which obviously gives you. a sudden competitive adj over the majority of countries that tax income and property but i think over the last couple of years and even decades we have been seeing some shift from direct to direct taxation a lower their world that feel partially by globalization is that something that may

in the long term or perhaps even medium term undermine the modell that you have benefited from for so much. well i think you have to understand that the indirect taxation model is of no relevance at all to an overseas investor it's only relevant to someone who is resident in the cayman islands and so a resident of the cayman islands pays tax to the cayman islands government by way of indirect taxation that is to say particular stent duties import u.t.s. fees of that sort rather than having income or other sorts of tax but that's not a system that oversees invest the benefits from at all however whether it is a more efficient model for other jurisdictions to adopt is a very interesting philosophical question personally i think it is because our indirect system of taxation is highly efficient in terms of revenue collection if you want to get your new b.m.w. into the cayman islands you have to pay forty percent stat import u.-t.

to the collector or you don't get your b.m.w. so there's no question of avoiding tax under an indirect system such as the cayman islands applies well i think he came out and. also has a rob they're well protected if not for tax in this labor market and it's actually you know has a lot of regulation that tries to shield your people from the i would call it exploitative excesses of globalization do you think object countries should do more of that and if they indeed do more of that don't you think that your people will suffer as a result let's break that into two firstly it is absolutely the case you're correct the cayman islands have a very straight immigration rules and very strict work permit laws which are protectionist in that they are designed to provide the first opportunity for employment within the cayman islands to cayman islands citizens and residents.

so that is absolutely right and indeed that was the model is. in for example europe before the european union arrived. that's very interesting question as to whether that is desirable or not but that is very much a question of protecting the local people from. you competition from known cayman island persons i don't think that's going to change in the foreseeable future well it's interesting speaking about protecting your people from non-citizens the u.s. congress has just scrapped the previous tax system for corporations which allowed companies like apple and microsoft to defer your income taxes on foreign earnings and i know that the cayman islands certainly benefited from that different taxation regime i use story to seed goal i think we can break this into two again the first the first point is that the tax avoidance that the apples and the two goals in the

starbucks. applied to reduce their taxes occurred in europe because you need double tax treaty jurisdictions and there's all the european jurisdictions ireland the netherlands luxembourg the the involvement of jurisdictions like the cayman islands which is not a double tax treaty jurisdiction and therefore not involved in that form of tax avoidance is simply that there are maybe one hundred or two hundred subsea juries all the major u.s. corporates which are located in cayman which were used as the ultimate holding vehicles for the net trading profits of those global us corporations now to the extent that the tax regime has just changed under the tax tax cuts and jobs act two thousand and seventeen. we may find there is no further

use for those cayman subsidiaries of the major u.s. corporates. and so we may be involved in having a hundred or two hundred companies. no no no longer used in the cayman islands and possibly liquidated by bear in mind that's out of a total of around one hundred thousand so it's a statistically irrelevant. percentage well it's been asked to made that this different deferral provision allowed companies to stockpile an estimated three point one trillion years dollars offshore and some of them for example apple have already said that they would be paying those taxes directly in the united states you just said that it is to stick a relevance as far as the cayman islands. are concerned but i wonder if this shift in the u.s. taxation regime may alter the course of globalization in any way surely arlen

should be feeling the pinch or do you think it's a trick or treater truly island should although there are other reasons why olive has been successful particularly you know and efficient and low cost labor force. but the you know bear in mind the three point one trillion number you mentioned came about because u.s. law wanted us corporations to be able to defer tax off shore because it operated what was known as a capital export neutrality system and if it hadn't allowed for the deferral us corporations would under the previous law have been taxed twice on that level profits and therefore been noncompetitive with with say european corporations which was only tax once now in the us they've they have just done under the tax cuts and jobs reform act they've just amended that structure so that u.s. corporates for now be taxed only.