germany's social democrat leader martin resigns after having recently agreed to form a so-called grand coalition with chancellor angela merkel. and another resignation in europe the foreign minister of the netherlands quits after admitting he lied about a meeting with vladimir putin and of the russian leaders intentions to forge a greater russia. an exclusive interview with r t the head of the court of arbitration for sports the friends the olympic committee's decision to exclude russian athletes which itself had already cleared of doping allegations. been give the full story on those headlines that are to dot com coming up crosstalk sheds some light on the possible. political breakthrough on the korean peninsula.

hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle the games have begun the younger sister of north korea's kim jong un has captured the attention of the media while u.s. vice president mike pence was mocked as a dud even undiplomatic the two koreas are engaging each other this makes the washington foreign policy swamp if you. cross the koreas i'm joined by my guest brian becker in washington he's the director of the answer coalition as well as host of loud and clear a daily new show on radio sputnik and in. we have gregory illich he is

a korea policy institute associate or a german cross-like rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate brian let me get me go to you here i'm sure you saw some of the mainstream corporate as coverage of the opening of the games and the what appears to be some kind of reproach moment between the two koreas but i thought a lot of that coverage has really missed the point in the what's really important here is not if the two koreas can actually engage each other because well they are but how much is the united states willing to go along with this and gauge meant here because the united states has an awful lot at stake with its presence in south korea and its own not only about north korea's nuclear program go ahead brian well peter i believe that we're at a pivotal moment because the attempt by the south korean government the moon giant government that came about as a consequence of very popular uprising that overthrew to minutely and led to the impeachment of the last conservative government and he. wants to have

a rapprochement lessening of tensions and possibly the beginning of real reconciliation on the korean peninsula between north and south korea this happened as happened in the past that happened certainly in the year two thousand madeline albright was dispatched by bill clinton to pyongyang candidate john went and met with kim jong il who is kim jong un's father then head of north korea but when there was taking place at that time it was with washington's blessing and as a consequence we see right now and this is why i consider this to be a pivotal moment it's a test of whether or not the south korean government which is clearly looking over its shoulder to see how much resistance it's getting from washington will be able to finally take a step to emerge as a truly sovereign entity and able to carry out with in korean politics and on the korean peninsula its own power. it's

a shame you certainly don't see north korea looking over its shoulder to see whether russia or china approves of its moves but here you have south korea with tens of thousands of american troops still in south korea and they they arrived in september one thousand nine hundred five they're still there. north korea doesn't have foreign troops on its soil so that is the big test will south korea be able to resist the pressure from washington it's the republicans it's the democrats it's the military industrial complex it's the cia none of that none of those institutional power centers in washington want there to be a real rock taking place in korea by koreans without the supervision of the americans gregory would weigh in on that because you know what what leeway does south korea have to make any kind of reproach with the north if there is a mutual engagement in any engagement that is real ok i mean i think western viewers tend to forget is that these are the two countries that could suffer the

most if there is a complex here they have a real vested interest to start sitting down and deescalating what would has been happening over the last few months here so what is the leeway the south koreans have gregory in columbus police you know of course we don't know what kind of discussions are going on behind the scenes between trump and and i imagine there's an enormous amount of pressure being applied on wednesday and however you look if you look back to former president normal here on the south korean president during the time of george w. bush he also with faith in north pressure from the united states that he went ahead and went to pyongyang about kim jong you know and he signed a series of economic agreement so you're here with much more forthright. warming relations with north korea than we tell you and ruth seems rather to cost the earth to me so i don't know if the nature of who the third threats that are going on behind the things one can only speculate but it is in the interests of the korea and. people both north and south. and act now and pick from.

improving relations between their careers and pick and accepting the open hand from the north koreans regardless the war washington it's the korean people who would pay the price of trump reasons the war if the north korean people are currently paying the price of economic. structure and caused by. kone and sanctions i think it's time for thought create a committee you know brian you hear in the in western media is that. north korea is trying to be a wedge between your breakaway the united states and in south korea but it's actually the united states is the wedge between north korea and south korea go ahead it's just amazing i mean korea has been a unitary entity with a with a common culture for so long for thousands of years in fact and here because north south koreans want to talk to north koreans and vice versa that's

a wedge for america which is thousands of miles away it shows the arrogance and hubris and i would say the racism the architectural racism of the of the whole paradigm whereby south korea does not have the right to carry out its own independent negotiations you are right peter the wedge in korea is the united states korea was divided at the thirty eighth parallel because a couple of americans who didn't know anything about korea drew a line and they showed it to their soviet counterparts and the two sides agreed that there would be two zones of control in the korean peninsula and then five years later when soviet troops and american troops had temporarily for the soviets permanently left the korean peninsula there was a war and the war began in june one nine hundred fifty it was the unsettled issue of the post-war configuration north korea had considered itself to be an independent entity japanese colonial fighting force and the south korean government was. created by the americans it was just the lackeys of the south of the japanese

who were put into place in a world by virtue of a military dictatorship now we have a situation where the united states does not want to give up its control over south korea because south korea one is an important military base for the united states and creates part of a network of bases along with the eleven american bases in japan it's part of the ongoing asia pivot so-called that obama announced but really has been going on for a lot longer since before then so the united states is a fearful that south korea could become independent that's the real issue what does north korea want north korea wants the security guarantee they want to and the u.s. south korean military exercises that simulate the destruction of their country that take place twice a year there's a possibility for a negotiated outcome here if there's one obstacle the real obstacle to a negotiated outcome of the korean peninsula crisis is in washington d.c. it's not pyongyang or and so it grew great you know part of the security

architecture of south korea is that if there is some kind of conflict a major conflict the entire control of the korean military is under american four star general i mean as an expert on korea i mean how does that sit with the korean population when they know that you know it's going to be the united states ultimately is going to control that determine their security future and then you have. reaching out its hand we don't know if it's real we don't know if it's genuine we don't know if this is just a ploy i mean it's a small step optics or something but i mean how does south korea feel about that i mean maybe at one time they needed that kind of security guarantee but it's well into a very powerful rich country. how does that play into their thinking about dealing with north korea go ahead to gregory or through their mentor agreement. or u.s. military. and of south korean forces and actually about what is supposed to have

been changed multiple times in the past and so that south korea would have control over its own forces in a war time but each time the deadline came the u.s. or conservative thought korean president postponed so this keeps getting pushed farther and farther into the future and unfortunate we're still stuck in the situation i think right now is probably making south korean people quite nervous when you have a very direct with trump and ministration who seems to be rather a blip he is to the harm caused by launching strikes the north korea so i think that makes people in south korea quite nervous but i think the u.s. military is not in the habit of respecting the wishes of the south korean people or even the thought korean military look at how the u.s. imposed the fad battery on south korea without. prior approval or even his initial knowledge it came as a surprise to him that the u.s. was imposing a battery or look at how the u.s.

refuses to pay the unit costs cleaning up the environment destruct destruction on the military base and since close. i don't think the south korean people are happy about being vulnerable to whatever the u.s. military commands you know what i mean let me go back to brian i mean these to add this and that into missile defense i mean it just makes south korea target you know that the u.s. says it's which they are to protect their interest but actually it's not the who witnessed it is targeted to actually this missile system is targeted against china and again korea is right smack in the middle of all this go ahead brian indeed i mean that stands for the terminal high altitude area defense is meaning it provides an anti missile defense so-called for for missiles that are at high altitude if there was a war between north and south korea north korea wouldn't be sending up high altitude missiles. so which is thirty miles from the d.m.z.

i mean on its face it's absurd and ridiculous clearly if that is against is designed to threaten china and to threaten russia to achieve what the americans hope to be a first strike capability exercising military supremacy in the future by ringing china and russia with these kind of missile defense programs that make a first strike first rate assault possible here's another thing and i think greg is right and it's very important that the pentagon rushed to deploy if they had before and during the transition between pocky and he and because they thought would be a liberal and because the liberals in the opposition inside of south korea didn't want it so they just ran down the throat of the people of south korea i mean clearly ok american and i think this is an important hang on hang hold on to that point bryan we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the korean state with us.

from the solution of these bumps me thinking. this news it was the in the book that which is a. you

know that. just trying. to gather from all. this for. all to see we have a great team we need to strengthen before the free world cold and your backs have been a legend to keep it so it's at the back. in one thousand nine hundred two that must qualify for the european championships at the very last moment no one believed in us but we won and i'm hoping to bring some of that waving spirit to the r.c.c. . recently i've had

a lot of practice so i can guarantee you that peter schmeichel will be on the best fall since my last will come from that. thousand no joke i was only kidding here i called russia. left left left more or less ok stuff that's really good. welcome back to crossfire all things considered i'm peter bell toronto we're discussing the koreas. ok and now i'd like to bring in another guest in cambridge he's an assistant professor at breaux college city university of new york as well as a specialist on korea and the asia any affairs i welcome professor to the program sorry was a little bit late ken i'd like to ask you a very kind of general quest. here we have after this public ceremony that we had

with the north korean delegation meeting with the south the opening of the games was very optically rich we can put it that way but. after we had that optically rich experience we have very conflicting messages coming out of washington from the secretary of state taylor saying. we have vice president pence saying you know he was very brusque i'm sure he was that was. a message that was sent intentionally and then we have but he said maybe we could talk some kind under certain conditions we all know what those conditions are and then we have secretary of state tillerson basically saying no i mean what what is washington saying look at a message is it sending to the careers if any right now go ahead now right now i think it's a really confusing mess and as you know well you know. white house state department and all of those key decision makers repeatedly highlighted that everything is on

the table but everything on the table it seems to have been or they want to emphasize military option or even regime change on the one hand but at the same time they repeatedly highlighted that united state is ready to talk so still u.s. government position in dealing with north korean crisis is no confusing and mixed masses in terms of dealing with kim's i'm going kind of you know so-called you know madman present from to try to deal with you know madman in terms of more mad men kind of you know you know creating uncertainty. but one of the critical problem of the u.s. government is moral lives and international relations of course current regime is a very horrible and condition there is really horrible and disastrous but if we moralize you know russia relations and like you know absolutely right and absolutely wrong so it's kind of all pro. it would be not good in terms of dealing

with a crisis situation. if i go back to gregory in columbus i mean the trump administration has said that it will apply maximum pressure on north korea but also. i mean i don't see any of the engagement in when someone doesn't gauge the south koreans they get snubbed for it. actually did you just think washington was caught off food on all of this i mean because we have again we have these conflicting reactions coming out of washington go ahead greg i actually don't think there are conflicting reactions coming out of washington so if you read very carefully the washington post article in which was quoted down there it's return flight. what do you actually think worth being nuclearization have to be and this sort of work because it taken this whole step could be nuclear if they think the us is open to talks preliminary talks during which of course you were out of there and the actual

negotiations great great no greater than the one moment but go ahead go ahead go ahead mark just one more the precondition for negotiations is for north korea to spend. with other words give the united states what it wants privately. and even to begin ok well that's just great brian i mean the north koreans saw what happened to libya they saw what happened in iraq i mean why in the in a lot of people have speculated that's why they have gone down the nucular road ok i mean why in the world with the north koreans give up this program and expose themselves when they're being threatened with a bloody nose you know seven ways to sunday i mean the it's absurd what's coming out of washington now that if they haven't thought it through as usual go ahead brian your question answers itself in fact and north korea won't give up its nuclear program and the united states knows the u.s. won't korea won't give up its nuclear. graham. and maximum pressure just for our

audience to understand what this these these euphemistic terms mean the united states is trying to create famine in north korea when you deprive people of trade in deprive them of food and deprive them of medicine you're trying to create famine to weaken the government and that's what the u.s. did to iraq before invading iraq sanctions were in place for thirteen years according to the un's own statistics a million iraqis died because of that and then the us invaded so sanctions and war go hand in hand sanctions an open war we have a situation where north korea not only learned the lesson of iraq it gave up its weapons of mass destruction or libya and then the countries were invaded in the leaders were executed it also is fully aware of what happened in east germany it does not want to be swallowed up by a more internationally connected second half of the country so the north korean government is acutely aware of the imperative need for its own security and that's

all it really seeks here is a security guarantee you i wanted to mention one thing peter real quick. lindsey graham represents a certain sector of american public political thinking where he said you know let's get that war over with yeah you know who plays golf with donald trump oh yeah let's get the war over with because all the undying will be over there that it goes back to your earlier question there's kind of a gratuitous you know in moral and ethical position of american policy makers let's have a war because only koreans or japanese or people from the from the asia pacific will die that's a minority sentiment right now but i think it's a sentiment that's playing well trying to convince the tribal ministration to reverse course here when they go down that road and that's why they want to have a parade afterwards ok let me go back to the professor in cambridge doesn't it doesn't the u.s. put itself in a very. difficult situation because it's just really not about south korea and its

position there it's all of the other alliances in the pacific and you know the japanese are going to be watching the people in taiwan are going to be watching the philippines etc etc and the because i've always argued against these alliances because they're too complicated and your alliance partners can pull you into a conflict that you really don't want and but all of these partners going to be looking at the u.s. if the korean some somehow can come to some kind of agreement the united states is going to look weak no matter what the u.s. does it's going to it's going to backfire on itself ok and that's why they continue with this very hard line because of the perception to be if you give up on one you will give up on all the others because certainly japan doesn't want to see a united korea go ahead professor right your point about a great point and what i wanted to highlight those you know international dimension or regional dimension is quite close related to domestic political dimension as

well for instance we need to keep in mind the points in the south korean politics for the past seventy years after the liberation. conservative group dominated korean politics more than sixty years right so the thing is that those conservative groups in a basic reading point is the anti communism or anti north korea and then those conservative domestic groups quite close are a link to where the american hardliners and hard line position so that kind of link is between the master political dimension in a conservative you know politics and them alliance relationship makes very complicated so expect the government who will try to slow down and coordinate this no international and domestic political situation all together so it's a very difficult job but i think. the matching the sequence and pacing of into

korea. alliance coordination would be a critical you know gregory what is look could be next here because i mean i certainly don't know only thing i know about korean culture is its food and its great ok but what is there a kind of a cultural you know a cultural dynamic that can take on a life of its own here i mean taking one step in another step what would be the next one because as we said in the first part of the program the south koreans don't have a whole lot of leeway but there are other things they might be able to do what could they be go ahead. two thirty eastern to speculation but as far as what the korean press. in response to. kim your jaw. imitation for anyone to come to pyongyang and meet to kim jong. il to this convenience and improve relations he said well let's create the necessary conditions and there has to be dialogue between north korea and the united states

in order for south korea and north korean relations to improve. predicates that improve and u.s. relations with the u.s. . imports we did not return a letter in response to kim jong un's personal letter but what the south korean government is talking about is that and as an initial step is to set a private. low level envoy not connected to government that would discuss domestic issues. reuniting divided families and so forth as a starting point and from there are try to slowly expand the types of contacts but to be very low key and i think i think that it's still tied in to the view that he's got to bring a lot of the united states you know yeah to make it maybe kicking in that way and kicking in dry dragging them to peace here kicking and screaming kicking and screaming absolutely brian i'll give you the last word here what do you think is going to happen next year because i don't see the u.s. backing down they want that bloody no it's i mean that would be the end of the

peninsula as we know it go ahead brian. yeah the american government fears that peace could break out in the korean peninsula because that would of course upset and overturn american preeminence and dominance over the korean peninsula over over south korea the korean people do want peace i hope goes faster rather than slower because the only way that america's obstinance he can be overcome is through momenta ok. down and tries to kill us it won't work i'm not positive note here many thanks to my guests in washington columbus and in cambridge and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. next time and remember crosstalk rolls. the rebuttal i'm stephen both test hollywood guy you'll suspect. proud

american first of all i'm just george bush and our view to suggest this is my buddy max bemis financial guru he's a little bit different. you know with those with all the drama happening in our country i'm rude have fun every day americans. and hopefully start to bridge the gap this is the great american. in america a college degree requires a great deal. paying a decades long debt. study so hard it requires trust to. go through humiliation to enter an elite society. today

sometimes quite literally. launched. of the true colors of universities in the u.s. led. war hawks selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battle of things going. to new socks credit to tell you that it's not because of the public but files of the most important news today. off the bad guys and telling you are not cool enough and let's not fight their products. all the hawks that we along with our audience will walk. ok all right. thank you. thank you.

thank. you thank you. thank . you thank you i thank you i thank

you because you're right there see what looks like a fool to look they are yes i mean it's not just i mean it's just kind of shows you did you wouldn't run an action to be delicious show if you tended to go it was pushing the british corporate machine is it you didn't seem to get last time i said to you i can just press this through is it the issue i know we're told by now why did a special to me you know what it looks like much more minority insidiousness more despite doesn't it's surrounded you should have read your views if you didn't think you'd like to be some decent enough. brain is like. me as the who is the cut out of the with other ones or got the if they apply your question try to put this he has been to those a lot i think you get this feeling now for the first day of the day is that i wish i didn't but i hope you. know that to let him stay here is specialization.