time after time they were going underground as former exxon boss and u.s. secretary of state rex tillerson today in kuwait reportedly announces the end of reconstruction to iraq where one in five u.k. u.s. coalition air strikes allegedly resulted in the civilian death coming up in the show is moscow really going to kill thousands of british subjects is to raise a maze defense secretary suggest we ask the russian ambassador to the u.k. about his country's plans to use syria breaks it down trying to destroy british society plus i'll be talking about violence oxfam should george soros intervene in the parks at the bait and the sensational this new book about jeremy called it all a civil war coming up in today's going underground but first whatever you think of yesterday's court decision in london new light has been shed on the case against

julian assange one of the usas most wanted whistleblowers or if you believe the boss of the cia an individual threatening the lives of three hundred twenty three million people it's time to call out wiki leaks for what it really is a non-state hostile intelligence service often abetted by state actors like russia some might argue that isn't just publishing of cables has contributed to international security by revealing nato war crimes but that belief appears not to be shared by the british crown prosecution service which decides on court action in the name of the queen fighting discredited rape allegations astonished has not until this week been able to determine just how politicized his case is been because the c.p.s. allegedly destroyed information british prosecutors have reportedly admitted deleting e-mail exchanges with the swedish counterparts we've got in the case of wiki leaks founder julian assange and this happened back in two thousand and fourteen but was it twenty fourteen. now confidential e-mails show that swedish

prosecutors attempted to drop extradition proceedings against julian assange much earlier and who is the boss of the c.b.s. in twenty thirteen none other than jeremy corbin's current shadow breck's at secretary starmer here he is talking generally about his role in extradition one in a scientist case which seems more and more to be arguably political we don't use. these functions a maritime to separate us from legal comprehends systems his file. here's the official request here's the full monte as we would like you to conduct the extradition proceedings on our behalf with. the police. but we can't use a republic in this. part of. the empty to see whether they are not. really because when that man corbin's current shadow directorate secretary was in charge e-mails apparently showed that the country in question sweden was eager to

drop the case later even discredited by the un not only that but a lawyer working for care stoma urge sweden don't you dare get cold feet and arguably even more damning for k.s. drama it is simply amazing how much work this case is generating it sometimes seems like an industry please do not think this case is being dealt with as just another extradition assad would certainly maintain this was not just another extradition in fact for him this whole thing is a smokescreen for the usa to destroy wiki leaks because of war crime revelations to which side with iran lifelong critic of us foreign policy jeremy corbyn may have now promoted him but in twenty sixteen kids storm assault to destroy german corbin's leadership of the labor party he resigned advising that corbin could not lead an effective opposition today he has the complex job of shadow rex at secretary well kid star also voted against an investigation into the iraq war in britain fifteen years ago. tomorrow saw its biggest ever demonstration against that

labor government mandated war widely seen as illegal against that u.k. decision which to permanent u.n. security council members china and russia and the russian ambassador to britain joins me now ambassador thanks for coming on the show teresa mayes new defense secretary let's get straight to it gavin williamson says that your child getting you came first structure threatening the lives of thousands of british subjects why are you doing that well we're not going to target the british infrastructure this is absolutely irresponsible statement of the minister of defense so everything what is happening to do most of the british media this is the time of the getting money for the budget for the military budget and that's why they might at least my explanation is that the minister of defense wants to put more money and that's why you have to show the threat so the most convenient threat of course is russia would

trust our famous tweeter because you know we've got so many leads the responses to this statement and the people are not taking this seriously so do we what if they're russian boats as the british media say which of course is being accused of in influencing our brakes a driver and a very good english language but i think this is the people because you know in most of the cases you know we see it when the the latest in the newspapers i'm quite sure that in the newspapers you don't have boats ok some people my daughter come across the russian embassy in london's account but more generally is there a cyber war being conducted from moscow against nato powers no and i'll tell you why because there are no facts and what is interesting of course you read a lot of things in the newspapers but boris johnson was in moscow that was on the twenty second of december and. we discussed this problem that was raised by a lover of he said mr secretary you don't have a. effects huge are we here just the statements in the british press which are very

let's say they are not proved by anything why don't we have the consultations between our specialists russian british and if you have any facts you know if you have something in your hands please present it to us and the professionals could sit down talk about the sources about the proof and you know what what was the response is from boris johnson's going to his to no. good question you know if you don't have anything. of course. you can expect this kind of response ok you deny to cyberwar what about actual war not a week appears to go by without. the usual mainstream sources b.b.c. sky news channel four news is suggesting that your military is invading over these threatening to invade our airspace and our waterways first of all only british soldiers are standing on no borders this is in the store eight hundred british

soldiers located there it's not russian soldiers on the border with scotland or england this is the british soldiers on the border with russia this is first. second i think that. all this league ations about the interference into the brits or sky is you know in the zone of the british interests they're not supporting by any effect russians aircraft flying in international airspace they never cross the air spoiler space over britain so that's why we allowed like anybody else to fly in the international airspace ok but then the overriding context of this obviously is the british government's attitude that you have invaded crimea. a view as usual going to say you did not invade crimea you know what we did. we supported the people of crimea because you know whence the once

there was a coup in kiev. and the legitimate president unocal which was removed by the regime of poroshenko and the government of the winner so they call it the people in premier decided to have a referendum and so they voted ninety seven percent voted in favor of independence crimea because the they were freed of the changes that took place in kiev and later on very soon they decided to ask in other referendum to join russia and this is you know how how the creamier became part of russia is a point made repeatedly by a foreign minister as well but then they use here is you saying that nato battle groups now as you mentioned on a stone in poland in lithuania latvia they're wasting their time and including british troops they're just wasting their time on your borders and spending money but you're not denying that vladimir putin is a militaristic leader who is looking for expansionism of

a russian federation he has expanded the russian federation you know like this still is because. there is a very good institute international institute of strategic studies which is based in london and they just released a report and if you look at that you know about the military budgets you will find that the budget of russia one year is forty six billion dollars the budget of the u.k. is fifty two billion dollars so the british are spending more than we're doing and the budget of the united states military budget for one year it's seven hundred billion dollars it means that the whole nato spends almost a trillion against forty six billion dollars so roughly twenty times more so make your own conclusions another context of this course is what we're hearing about for the united states. and rex tillerson this existence as you will

be meddling with us mid terms you already have plans for the twenty twenty elections in the united states hand of course we hear in british media repeatedly that you. meddled and i suppose i can give you that one they haven't got proof of that the rex address for and what do you think of it when the sec us secretary of state says you have plans well i'll tell you first of all the run no effect that's exactly what my minister said several times to rex tillerson you know if you have something please present it so for no facts were presented but there was a quite an interesting story you know with the social media you remember that the facebook was asked how much money the russian side or the russian companies you know spain spend on so-called you know breaks to complain and it was almost peanuts you tube they answer they fishel and so worse and that was published in the british newspaper zero and you have this memory serves in the twitter almost. the same answer so basically from my point of view this is just the complaint which

is not supported by any evidence. ok as well as all of that on mainstream channels the same day to b.b.c. channel four news group iraq sky news we are told repeatedly that your country is currently murdering hundreds of civilians in syria using warplanes and we have white helmets footage which is broadcast that appear to prove that you are engaged in very contravening any kind of principles of war we don't trust helmets because first this is. financed by the british government is clear this is just a fact of life so they are biased in this case this is first and their participation in some other places you know where allegedly was used the chemical weapons was put on the question by the facts and. the they were participating in so many operations which were parishioners that's where stage that

we don't have a new trust. to the white helmets and they're basically the whole information that they're presenting has nothing to do with the reality we're waiting to statements from the white helmets and the foreign office but. why on earth would the british government want to fund a proxy guerrilla force and i know there have been allegations that they are cooperating with al nasrallah and you are going to what would be in the british interest to do that and then forge information that the russian military were engaged in atrocities i'll tell you it's the question to the british government you know the only thing that i want to say is that there were quite an interesting discussion you know debate in the parliament and the british government was ask you know how was two hundred million spent for so-called moderate opposition and so on they could justify only forty eight million all the rest they couldn't even find the answer how this money was spent and i'll tell you that

a lot of m.p.'s were surprise and we were surprised but of that money went to the what hellman's where the other one. so that's the question to the government and that's the question was posed by the m.p. you know by the russians so make your own conclusions i know it's only late breaking news a bit. at the ministry of defense in russia and this. of that appears to say they received a call that the white helmets may be involved in perhaps a future chemical attack anything on that here in the i don't know i don't have any information but that would be like saying a british funded agency was threatening a chemical attack in syria well i'll tell you better listen you know to the commands of the foreign office they are very quick on some comments russian ambassador thank you more from the ambassador after the break plus a look at the papers with associate fellow chatham house professor matthew goodwin that's all coming up in bottom of going underground. for.

the book. and it's getting international recognition with the help of israel at least in the world of zoos and dismiss it. like you know. this isn't my cup of tea is going on sunday on meet. the only palestinians is who gets the most help from its jerusalem counterparts i don't think there's some of those who in the world under the vision to look at this

. and there's a lot. i don't know do. welcome back we're still here with the russian ambassador to britain alexander of enco another context to all of this is the upcoming russian presidential elections and it's particularly liberal outlets so-called liberal out as like the guardian i think the assistant editor of the guardian simon tisdall saying the u.k. should be outraged by russia because of the treatment of opposition leader novell me that he cannot run against vladimir putin what do you think about this growing sense in britain as we approach the recent russian presidential elections that you know really democracy up state and you're not allowing people to run it's very interesting you know like the british media they always say hop truth because you

know work in every country we have rules and we have a constitution so basically anybody in the in russia could run for the president lee presidency but the one of the conditions you shouldn't have a criminal record. and nobody has this. criminal record at least two of them how they he can run for the president once you have this big round so this is the simple answer but it's not you will never read it in the any british newspaper that he has he had a criminal record so this is under the constitution he cannot simply run for the presidency that's it there are so many articles which is written you know in the u.k. and unfortunately all of them are very negative to putin i didn't read in a single article which is more or less even neutral and from my point of view it's sort of we have been meddling you know to the to the elections because you know it's just. to present a very negative information of one candidate it's not

a fair game the british government regulating the russian snow never to go with them talking about the media freedom free and independent i mean they say about the bridge ago and i have to ask you have in britain very much still involved in the syria campaign what was your reaction when you heard these reports that you came back to u.s. warplanes wiped out perhaps a hundred. syrian forces fighting isis to hash in syria the major problem that we have with the british side is that the british side is still holding the position that assad must go and from my point of use an acceptable because in a best democratic traditions of the worst this is the people of syria should decide you know whether who is going to be the president so basically we're trying to convince our british. colleagues and the portman's you know just look at this you know from different points of view and but as far as i know the foreign office

didn't change its position you know sometimes it sounds a little bit louder sometimes you know less loud but the core of their position is the same so basically. is there some kind of a follow up of that. approach is what what you hear today in the british press you know in the statements of the ridges go and i know that the russian president appears to have a cold according to british media sources that are whether you can confirm that or not he has met with the palestinian president what do you think of what the palestinians are saying that the united states cannot at all be an honest broker rule russia be taking a bigger. space in this so-called peace process well i understand the palestinians because you know when when when the u.s. decided to acknowledge the druce them as the capital. of israel so that was very one sided approach so basically and

what about the two state solution where the police teens and police to us today they believe that. the united states simply don't take into account their position so i fully understand you know what they feel and from that point of view of course from my point of view that the u.s. should have a little bit more balanced position on that subject could we see a moscow summit well we're always open the you know for the conversations and the proposal to held a meeting between the israelis and the police genius in moscow it is on the table we will behave you to be honest brokers but it's up to the two sides i mean a lot of people are a political and or at least apathetic about politics but they are probably watching the winter games in korea fully pleased to watch the two koreas botching in unison at the opening ceremony what does it make you feel as the russian ambassador

representing a country where so many of your athletes on t.v. able to compete well it's for me it's a beauty but you know i always look at the positive side and the positive side is that first of all the russian athletes. sure that they're the best and probably you know whether there is cases which were fabricated by some people you know in the olympic movement. could be just. this will be another but you need to show that we're the best and. the olympics is politicized as they have been in previous decades yes i think so i think so because the whole the whole story would be would adopting with the with everything would have been you know with the russian team is just exactly be the be example of the political it is a shame because you're a member there was a it was a decision of the court in laws honor and you know a lot of russian police were lowered to participate the decision of the olympic

committee not to listen to the decision of the court that that was a very strong and political move from my point of view and sad that the united states will be there could be to the fee for world cup soccer tournament we would welcome everybody who are qualified. as a bank you're. joining me now to go through some of the week's headlines is author professor matthew goodwin he's a senior fellow with the u.k. and russia back to chat about a think tank amongst others and he's a former member of the u.k.'s working group on anti muslim hatred his most recent book breaks it why britain voted to leave the european union is out now matthew thanks for coming on i know for it's actually boris johnson giving a speech today on breaks it what is this first headline let's go straight to it yes absolutely this is george soros i want buffs out of bricks it politics well i think there's been a vigorous debate in the last week in british politics lots of commentators

columnists saying that they feel that this is interference from abroad and they have been charges of anti-semitism and all kinds of things been floating around social media i think the end of the day this boils down to a sense that among leaders at least that this is somebody from outside of. and interfering in a domestic debate unlike barack obama who famously. the funny thing about the obama debate is i'm pretty convinced that actually backfired i think if you look at the leave standing in the opinion polls at the time i think obama hurt or maim rather than they helped remains you think george soros might do the same with all this money being poured in and their flags outside the commons every every day for remain the same people go you know that's why we want us over here back my general view on this is that remain has not learnt the lesson of what happened during the referendum and i think if you look at how these types of stories are reaching ordinary british voters i think that the big gamble for remain is going for that

second referendum and the last thing they should be doing is courting outside influence that's my my personal view because if we have that second referendum make no mistake they lose again it's over for a whole generation of people going to say it's over a long time back in the end there to be sixteen let's go to the next story people who criticize or is often being accused ready semitism let's go do what is real and these images u.k. fascists modeled on jihad these are prepared to kill say campaigners and this actually brings off. it is rooted in a lot of my earlier research actually which is looking at the potential for violence among far activists in the u.k. so you're the expert on it is it we're hoping not to hate getting a lot of criticism for the right saying this is a far left group we should we listening to them because we tend to think of terrorists to be islamists people returning from from was overseas what is the

nature of the fascist threat here in britain this picture national action this is the first group to be prescribe to many years in britain. the murder of gerry caulks the labor m.p. of course which is very much in people's memories. but also we forget you know since nine eleven we've talked endlessly about religious extremism we forget it early in the sixty's in the seventy's in the early eighty's we forget things like timothy mcveigh knew us right wing terrorism has always bob would under the surface and open was not just a day when the negatives were united raising has a specific issue and if you compare the number of jehad he is let me stop attacks versus right wing extremist or white supremacist attacks you know it is a far more mixed picture than what you might believe for you to read the latest headlines so i think this is a very real story and. my take on this at least is the government is not investing

in countering all forms of extremism it's had ten fifteen years to really invest in this i was i was a member of the government and muslim hatred was a religion to you well i resigned because i felt that they were not taking extremism in all of its forms seriously enough and they were not embraced meaning that it was is because we can see the effects of islam is terror more easily on the street i think i think there's a sense that into gratian is difficult and countering the violent end is easier through the security services at it through the police at it but but countering nonviolent extremism is much harder and i just felt that there was there were not enough resources being thrown into that and there was not enough. engagement with researchers and you know the social science community this is a live issue it's a lead last week violent attacks against migrants you know by somebody who was

affiliated to rightly extremist groups well that's certainly not the way the mainstream media are looking at it is regards the main agenda in this country not the threat of fascism the threat of oxfam let's go to the deed. so if the government doesn't. funding to oxfam nothing will change says the independent pretty harsh or at least one columnist sean o'grady i mean come on i mean i was on this show the other week talking to us about the inequalities of western capitalism the fact that capitalism is not benefiting the poorest surprise surprise we get an old old story arguably about sex workers and the use of oxfam staff and and a lack of management i think what this is tapping into is a sense among the to be those on the right of british politics that too much international aid is being sent over to groups that are largely not very transparent or perhaps on accountable and there's a sense that we need

a greater level of scrutiny to safeguarding and things like that as you seem pretty patella people on the right of the conservatives saying actually enough is enough we need to clamp down and this is a very lively debate within the conservative party although people are going to be on the left to talk about whether it is being used geopolitically rather than charitably which is another another debate that's going to this now from the express yeah so this is jeremy cohen's plan to scrap tried and pull the u.k. out of nato were viewed in a somewhat sensationalist you might suggest a new book. eve i mean you're in the us you're on live t.v. you're reading a book or these pages robel cover corbet you're never going to underestimate or kill him i underestimated corbin by one point eight percentage points i might point out that i also said corbin would lose the last general election and he lost the last general election but the issue here i think is this is what i think is going to characterize this parliament until two thousand and twenty two if we don't have an early election which is much greater scrutiny of what jeremy corbyn believes

there is a sense i talk to senior conservatives quite regularly and there is a belief that if they put corbin under enough scrutiny that they will somehow swing the next election because they believe the next election will not be like twenty seventeen when voters thought he's a dead duck there's no chance he can win the next election i think now conservatives are cordoning on to the idea that actually if they push him hard enough they put him under enough scrutiny he may buckle resume thank you and we've now had a comment from jeremy corbin's shadow breaks it secretary care starmer about our item at the beginning of this show concerning him and we keep leaks founder julian assange start his office said he was unavailable to come on going underground in addition we were referred to the twenty sixteen starmer resignation letter citing corbin's ineffective leadership and starr's office also referred us to the crown prosecution service itself the c.p.s. however would not comment about recent allegations that its staff under the

stewardship of care starmer were not entirely disinterested over the now drop case against the founder of wiki leaks we should also add that gives dharmas office advisors to remove a tweet we put up on monday about starman voting record in the run up to the iraq war they were eventually satisfied when we clarified that he did indeed in twenty sixteen choose to vote against an investigation into the contrast between public statements and private actions in the run up to the iraq war that's good for the show on the eve of the fifteenth anniversary of the bigot. demonstration in british history against the iraq war. games have begun the younger sister of north korea's ruler kim jong un has captured the attention of the media while the u.s. vice president mike pence was mocked as

a dud even undiplomatic the two koreas are engage each other. breaking news the shooting incident outside the u.s. national security agency left at least one person the suspected shooter has been to bring a developing story. in the headlines to today the foreign minister quit soft revealing that he lied about a meeting with the russian president back in two thousand and six when he claimed mr putin spoke about. so-called great russia. else of your sweet nothings of this uncertain approach breaks it fuel from maine and says come from here in government except that this morning i'm not going to. persuade everybody britain's foreign secretary says those opposing betraying the country as he defends the u.k. .