i don't share that view i don't believe that is a fact coming from russia today i believe we have to be vigilant about what might happen in the future in russia or china but i don't see a threat today and then there's the head of the british army cern nicholas carter and he says that cyber war with russia is a bigger threat to britain their security to british security than terrorism the terror attacks happened on monthly bases and britain last year i mean what is it all ok under control now no terrorist threat information cyber attack is more dangerous cyber attack is a real problem for all of our countries for russia have united states and for britain but the cyber attacks can come from terrorism rows from other countries. one of the unique aspects of the cyber threat is that they can come from an individual it can come from a small group and they can come from a nation is not limited like nuclear weapons to a large country that has the industrial capacity to build a nuclear weapons but i think what makes people nervous is

a lot of. talk about war war war and conflict is so much in the air right now general carter one more time want to far as saying that they may have no choice about conflict with russia i mean is great britain and thus medo really going to have a war with russia there is just fear mongering we have today i believe. a positive friendly relationship with russia some people are imagining. what could happen in the future. we ought to be focusing our attention instead of how do we preserve that part of her day how do we build on the parts of relationship there's no reason why the american people and the russian people should be hostile to each other the history of friendship its history of working together during the period i was secretary of defense we actually worked together we had to pass working together in bosnia we had american and russian soldiers going together on foot

patrols in bosnia and it worked very well we also worked together with the with the russian nuclear establishment in dismantling nuclear weapons during that period of time we dismantled eight thousand nuclear weapons four thousand of the united states and four thousand in the former soviet union so we work together to the benefit it can be done should be done and i would like to get back to it instead of worrying about what could happen ten years from now what could happen if russia gets tossed out of the united states we should focus instead of you where secretary of defense i'm fortunate i always see right now is ramping up its defense expenses in response to a threat from china and russia i mean russia's military budget is seventeen times smaller than american military budget america's spending more money on its military than the next eight countries taken together what like how can it still feel insecure. i am very concerned with this

increasingly hostile relationship building up to trying it between the united states and there's my own view is that the cause of it is coming from both nations it's actions and statements made by russia as well as action and statements made by the nice some of them are response to each other we ought to somehow find a way of turning that around looking at the for that seeing the worst in each side's trying to see the best and he said and there's i said we have a history of working together part will in cooperate cooperate we we know. do it and i'd like to get back to that and i think it's going to take changes in attitudes and changes and statements and changing positions both in the russian government and the american government for that to happen i'm not pleased today with the positions taken by other government. to take a short break right now while we're back will continue talking to dr william perry a former u.s. defense secretary talking about russia u.s. relations and what's going to happen with north korea stay with us.

i've. thought. the most losing the most but. just music was taken from both of them which is this mission because the noise is a. little bit some of it is just almost trying. to gather some.

serious. elliston and is getting international recognition with the help of israel at least in the world of zoos i'm in bill fit to finish it to do it looking like a million pieces and my compass is going up the sunday i'll be a bit. old john i just hope. the only palestinians it gets the most hopeful is jerusalem counterparts i don't think there's some of those ruined under the oak vision the only could do this. and know it is all off out that it's

got to this lady of the muscle that you had i'm going to compete in the doesn't seem to do more than the most also because of. the stakes couldn't be higher and it's happening in syria the goal of destroying the islamic state is largely complete now the syrian proxy war is in train a new stage for the players and one of their aims and what is winning. then we're back with dr william perry a former united states to fan secretary dr perry and then there's the sanctions business despite congress specifically passing the anti russian sanctions trub

actually chose not to enact them but instead he unveiled a list of who is in kremlin and who is still in the russian business so i don't know how you see but we thought that maybe he was kind of making fun of congress there. i'm not pleased with that list but i have a few read nor i read the list but you read the statement with it it makes no sense to fix statement isn't there nothing listen these people there's nothing more they have done nothing than nothing the line about we intend to take notice that we have no plans to put sanctions on them it's very specific that this is. just in response at the request of congress made i don't agree with many things the trouble ministration has done but i think their action on that this was very wise where they explicitly stated that this is not a list intended to impugn these people. with the current congress which is pretty hostile towards russia white house which is last hostile to russia do u.s.

russia relations stand any chance honestly speaking or to they have to come back this is what's going on right now. i agree that the actions taken by the congress today and particularly on the sanctions list. made no real sense but i also observe they were not actually moving towards more aggressive actions to each other it's. i would like to see a much better. relations and everything that the united states and russia are doing and i hope we can get to that point but in the meantime we should not be misinterpreting things like that so-called sanction that was really not a sanction this was just a list of names i would also like to see statements made by our leaders both the russian leaders an american leaders be more moderate and maybe focus more on the positive aspect of our relationship but i do believe

we will get through this. i think. we have a history of positive relationship there's no reason why we can't get back to that relationship again in the many many reasons why we should not pursue this negative track we are today we and by we i mean both united states and russian governments i don't i'm not pleased with what have you or the other government is doing. dr perry you have said that with emergence of malicious hackers we are now in greater danger than accidental nuclear war than during the cold war i mean i agree that technology brings along a new threats but defense systems have become much more sophisticated as well now i mean how can they still be very vulnerable to external attacks being sophisticated doesn't mean they're not vulnerable to attack in fact the more complexity a system has the more different avenues it has for failure the bigger and more

complex a system is the more points of failure you might find in the system so i am not at all in fact when i talk with our. generals about our warning system at the north american air defense command they say we're relieved we're not so much worried as you are because our systems are old fashioned they don't have the the openings for vulnerabilities that some modern systems have they're not open to being hacked for example. so being modern in complex is not necessarily meaning being better the important thing i think is not the different complexity of our systems or the village attack it's recognizing that any system no matter how modern no matter how simple how complex and the system is volatile mistake that they seem to do fail humans make errors as long as that happens we have to be sure that our political system doesn't respond falsely to those errors so the important thing is

to. move away from the position where we believe we have to launch or the russian government believes it has to launch on a warning but instead of willing to step back and say why would the russians launch missiles or the us there why would the americans launch missiles at us and once you understand the answer that question they wouldn't do it then you're not so apt to make a mistake so if you machines fail if you whom humans feel the political system has to use good judgment i say this must be a mistake we're not going to respond to it but i still wonder about the technical side of the i have to ask you mean this is just mind boggling to me that so many years on and it still just takes one person and one push of a button to blow up half of the world and their machines malfunction and even the more complex they are the most likely the are the malfunction of some respect human enjoy human to human there and so any system

that depends on machines never failing or humans never and is a bad system we have to have a system that dissipates there will be failures and acts accordingly and that means you have to have safeguards building in your decision process that accommodate the possibility of machine failures or human furious. as you were a policy coordinator on the north korean nuclear problem and even one on that historic visit to pyongyang in ninety nine and i know that your diplomatic efforts almost resulted in success aspect than until it went sour again what is it that the current us administration is doing wrong what north korea i think really is where north korea is working right now they are moving forward with an i.c.b.m. program moving forward of the nuclear program the nuclear program even includes thermo nuclear weapons so they are putting together very. substantial threat in the

face of international opposition in the face of un resolutions of the contrary that's the problem we're faced with today and the question is how do we deal with a politically and my understanding of the north korean suggests that while i'm concerned about the nuclear weapons program i do not believe they have any intentions of using those offensively against any other country. they are not suicidal. they're not seeking martyrdom they're seeking to protect their country against an attack in other words they see the nuclear weapons as being for deterrence. the danger there is not that they will use the weapons the dangers with that there was a blunder into a war with them and that danger is a very good danger i think it's very important that the united states in dealing with north korea understand that they're not intending the use of more fancily but

we could trigger and that we could mistakenly take an action which triggers a response so we have to be very careful in dealing with north korea but we should not delude ourselves into thinking that they're tending to fire those missiles have us. there is a lot of hope right now about the resumed talks between the two koreas and their recently spoke to the south korean president advisor and what he told me is that the only thing that north korea really wants is to tom directly to the united states do you think america should be talking directly to north korea may be a lot of good things could come out of it i think that's quite possible when. i went to north korea ninety nine that was true they wanted to speak to the united states we had very constructive discussions then we had an agreement. the basis for an agreement by which they would give up all the nuclear weapons and all the long

range missiles and then i think we might have been able to pursue that and i don't think we can achieve that today it's too late to get back to a negotiation to get them to go to the nuclear weapons at this time we have to focus on what we have to do to deter the use of those nuclear weapons and then the diplomacy we use here should be focused on how do we lower the danger of the nuclear weapons if we think we're going to have a diplomacy to get allows them to get rid of the by which they get rid of the nuclear weapon i think we are deluding ourselves they have them they like them they're going to keep them. rhetoric i mean he's so-called bloody nose preemptive strike on north korea. it's not very dangerous when you just hear that but it could have some consequences no i think first of all it would be dangerous to conduct a preemptive strike i mean fully opposed to doing that but i also think it's somewhat dangerous to even threaten to do it because if north korea really believes

we're about to conduct a preemptive strike on them is going to be significant in a serious preemptive strike that may. they may be. motivated to make it to try to beat us to the blood to have their own first strike so it's very important to keep the rhetoric down as well as keeping our military we have a very capable defensive military capability and north korea and we can be confident about that but we should not be threatening military action that could lead to undesirable consequences when it comes to north korea we hear secretary masses actually talking diplomacy it's trump that's talking war carefully yet do you think the defense secretary has enough elaborates on trump to actually prevent him from doing anything i can you know whether your personal relationship is but it is certainly true that if the president wants to take military action on north korea he has to take it through secretary trump i mean secretary brothers so i have

a lot of confidence and secondly it's after him as he's a very. experienced and very. cautious about the use of military power he has and he's not reckless at all so i. guess it gives me a good feeling dr perry thank you very much for this wonderful inside i wish you all the best thank you come back to us soon all right. in twenty forty you know bloody revolution is here to crush the demonstrations going from being relatively peaceful political protests to be creasing the violent revolution is always spontaneous or is it just no lawyer up what if i mean your

list book that he would put him in the new bill is out of the new school in the middle of the fall the ukrainian president recalls the events of twenty fourteen. those who took. it invested over five billion dollars to assist ukraine in these and other goals that will ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic. led . that just. it's. certain i want to do it and just show everybody do we really be very clear let's go away go to. management. and they on they they when they have and they have then you.

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can use this hour the united states indicts thirteen russian nationals. in america's twenty sixteen presidential election moscow points out the absurdity of the accusations. on a visit to ankara america's top diplomat attempts to improve worsening relations with. turkey the tensions grow in syria over washington support for the kurdish. terrorist. spirit is being embraced by competitors from around the world at the winter games in south korea with rivals helping each other around. specific russian athletes he offered me technical help he was willing to reach out

and help me in such a desperate time shows that sport can bridge cultures it can bridge politics. international ok our breaking news story this hour the u.s. just indicted thirteen russian nationals over alleged meddling in america's two thousand and sixteen presidential election r.t. correspondent philip morgan joins us from new york. bringing us up to date the latest on this story. well we have an indictment now from the u.s. department of justice now it's thirty seven pages and if you read the indictment it names specifically thirteen russian individuals as well as three entities in russia now it does not actually charge them with meddling because under u.s.

law there is actually no crime known as meddling but allege that this is that they interfered in the u.s. election that they were working to disparage hillary clinton and to support donald trump and they are being charged essential with conspiracy to defraud the united states they are charged also with federal elections commissions act violations as well as violations of the foreign agent registration act now it is alleged that these individuals were essentially purchasing facebook ads and gauging in activities designed to influence the u.s. presidential elections and doing so in violation of the u.s. law now the entities that were named were the internet research group concord management and concord catering and furthermore there were thirteen individuals that were named all of those people are actually in russia none of these people are in the united states these are not russian nationals living in the usa but rather russians in russia now they have not tried to contact the individuals who've been

indicted but they say they will follow the normal extradition procedures in dealing with them but it's essentially alleged that they gauged in what they're calling information warfare against the united states trying to influence the elections on social media maybe some fraudulent bank transactions other things that are that are listed however we've heard testimony in the u.s. congress about these allegations about troll farms and bots and such and we've heard that the impact of these accounts might not be exactly what it's purported to be this is some of the actual testimony we've heard in the u.s. congress. they found portals into our society russia has harnessed the tremendous and quite frankly to me frightening power of social media their goal is to divide us and discredit their democracy they are using our own social networks our friendships

our families and our biases and a few points against us from bernard like wildfire. we determined that the number of accounts we could link to russia and that were tweeting election related content was comparatively small. aggregate these ads and post were a very small fraction of the overall content on facebook but any amount is too much . in. these videos mostly hadlow view counts.

now maria is a corrosive of the russian foreign ministry she responded to the announcement of these indictments and in her response she used the phrase observer the word absurd and talked about what what the russian foreign ministry has to say about the u.s. department of justice and guiding these thirteen individuals as well as these thirty three entities this is maria's a car about. turns out there were thirteen of them according to the u.s. justice department thirteen people were meddling in the u.s. election thirteen against the billion dollar budgets of the intelligence agencies against the intelligence counted halogens against the state of the art technologies absurd yes but this is america's modern political reality by the way why thirteen apparently that's the only number with bad associations and that's their only hope

. now the chances of these individuals being extradited to the united states to stand trial is rather slim so essentially these charges will serve as defacto sanctions these individuals obviously won't be traveling to the united states or they would be arrested their bank accounts and such will be shut down and essentially these are defacto sanctions imposed by the u.s. department of justice now it's interesting to note that the bob muller special counsel investigation into the possibility of rump and russia collusion has been going on for quite a while and you know even up quite a bit of the resources of the u.s. department of justice now we have just heard that indeed the f.b.i. was tipped off twice about the school shooter nicholas cruz who shot up a high school and killed seventeen students most recently and you can be sure that there are a number of americans that are now asking themselves if the f.b.i. and the department of justice were to spend more time investigating school shooters

and trying to prevent attacks by terrorists and instead instead of focusing on these allegations about russian ads or a possible collusion scandal in the presidential election is it possible that perhaps seventeen american high school students might still be alive a lot of people are asking that question now we do understand that donald trump was briefed on this indictment and furthermore we've heard from the individual who is named as the alleged mastermind he responded by saying that americans are very impressionable and if they want to see the devil they certainly can many things of course would kill him or bring this right to. ok let's bring in regular political commentators day. to day what do you think. probably a little chance to sort of digest the the nuts and bolts what's your impression. oh that's not necessary for me i've been watching this with the gimlet for a long time maria's aker over is correct in her cynicism and dry humor that is the

correct way to see this because for a year and a half robert mueller has been trying to attach donald trump to individual russians with individual evidence of plotting and planning and now finally on the day of the second day of school shooting headlines which if you know anything about american media are just nonstop twenty four seven every t.v. station constant school shooting constant coverage no room for anything else the fact that mueller dumped these indictments out today proves that he's kind of hoping to go undercover in as far as possible to go undercover with political news like that you know america got to see this through the lens of american politics mueller is desperate to hang something on trump because the left and the media in america have made it their mission like st george slaying dragons to get rid of donald trump by hook or by crook whatever they have to do and after all this time in the chair mueller's got nothing so he's indicted these russians knowing he's

never going to have to actually bother to prosecute them which is why indicted them for peculiar almost not named crimes very low level things what's happening is mueller is sort of setting himself up having tossed red meat to the base on the left here's your russian's here's your conspiracy see they tried to affect the outcome of the election and then he can sort of fade back into the hedge like president obama is doing in his in his national gallery portrait or like homer simpson does on one of those simpsons shows just going to disappear behind the leaves an old nobody notices bob mueller anymore because he's done this is his entire load fired off the great shotgun of the special prosecutor's office they have to get indictments when you give them millions and you'll are by the way has been making five or six million dollars a year in personal salary for the year and a half that he's been this special prosecutor in spending a. more taxpayer dollars than that accomplishing pretty much nothing it's no surprise it's russians it's indictments and it makes people think people who aren't

paying very close attention it makes people think they've gotten that much closer to trump and somehow there's still a way to show that trump colluded with russians to influence the outcome of the election now the deputy a.g. rosenstein read out a list of things this isn't this isn't evidence that any americans did anything wrong this isn't evidence that any votes got change or any other outcome was gotten in terms of affecting the election this isn't evidence of anything but that some russians were pretending to not be russians while on social media talking about the election as democrats love just say it's a big nothing burger there's no meat in the sandwich. so the what. big news from abroad this whole spectacle since trump was a was selected it's been over a year of what seems to be attacks on him and he still.