check it out all the support coming up in today's going underground but first not even elite mainstream media paid much attention to israel's prime minister in the past few days he brandished a bit of alleged iranian droon at the munich security conference attended by u.k. minority government needed to resume and russian foreign minister sergei lavrov so given we have yet to interview anyone from the israeli government or the israeli embassy in london on this show he has been in netanyahu. this abuse of a very very low. what's left after we started there. are a lot of years you can see. some commentators expressed doubt about politicians bringing props for their speeches arac declared eighty five hundred leaders anthrax but aside from colin powell as u.n. security council justifications for mass killing in iraq it was iranians foreign minister speaking in munich who is keen for the world to note that netanyahu is

protestations about iran come at a tricky time for him israeli police are recommending that prime minister benjamin netanyahu be indicted on two corruption cases the recommendations follow a months long investigation into allegations of bribery well in the latest book by our next guest israeli prime minister netanyahu who denies all allegations comes under fire for more than just bribery joining me now amidst yet more bombing of palestine by the british armed israeli government is present open finkelstein his latest book is called gaza an inquest into its martyrdom thanks so much norman coming back on the show israel back militarily by the u.k. is again bombing gaza a sad time in this for the book. when i wrote the book i didn't expect that it would be timely i wrote it as a historic document because palestine and gaza in particular were falling off the news much to my surprise because the situation in gaza has reached the breaking

point since two thousand and twelve the un reports have been saying it typically right will gaza be livable in twenty twenty then the next reports i think it's going to be sooner than twenty twenty and now in the past month not just un reports but israel has been saying gaza is on the brink of collapse or reaching the point of no return and so there's a lot of desperation israelis fear that diseases break out in gaza they're going to spread to israel and so we're. turning point a crisis point not sure what you would want to call it to be essential fact as i see it is this. seventy percent of the people of gaza are refugees more than half are children they're trapped there's no way out and the u.n. reports and even israel is saying the situation there is on livable

now you use your own semantical imagination how would you describe a situation where people are caved into conditions which are literally on livable what word would you use i'm not going to use that word use your own imagination and that's the united nations relief and works agency put it it said gaza is unique in the world in this one regard wherever there is a natural catastrophe say there is drought. or a human made catastrophe say war in syria the people always have the option to flee there's always the option to flee gaza is the one case the one instance in the world today where there are verging on an on livable situation that's not

poetry that's a physical biological fact livable ninety five percent of the water in gaza is unfit for human consumption each day when a child drinks water the child is poisoning him or herself but they can't leave their caged in as your former prime minister put it gaza is an open air prison let's just skip through because i know you go through the day doctrine which is to do with lebanon and then explain who goldstone judge goldstone is and how initially he caused sadness than an uplifting feeling amongst those who support the palestinians and then ultimately the tragic and was an important moment and i hope you'll allow me to give you the time to explain under international law war crimes consist of three things disproportionate attacks indiscriminate attacks and targeting of civilians. those are equivalent under

international law that is to say there is no hierarchy this proportionate force indiscriminate force and targeting of civilians are all considered equal war crimes along came goldstone goldstone had three so to speak immunities i mean even number one is a very respected international jurist meaning the number two is not only jewish but he's not jewish just by fortune he's proudly jewish he's very self identified as a jew number three he self identified this is zionist he doesn't run away from that label that's who i am he sits on the board of directors of the hebrew university in jerusalem his daughter did what is called namely she when she went to israel for nationalistic reasons he is a bona fide zionist jewish respected jurist he produces a report and he crosses a red line it causes a red line he said the attacks were not in the sensually disproportionate and not

essentially indiscriminate he said the purpose of operation cast lead was to punish humiliate and terrorize a civilian population in other words israel israel's objective was not military it was not targeting combatants it was not targeting military sites its objective was the civilian population that was a horse of a totally different color and just very briefly and then and then suddenly here we can judge well he came under huge attack personal attack professional attack dredging up his past when he was a judge in south africa under the apartheid regime going for the moral juggler telling him he can't attend his grandson's bar mitzvah in south africa he's a south african with a south african citizen and still is comes under tremendous attack and then on.

first two thousand and eleven which is april fool's day in the united states we all thought it was a prank opened up the newspaper washington post he recanted the whole report because he said that he had underestimated the number of hamas military casualties because previously everyone had said how is it that hamas had been untouched by the british back warplane as strikes well killing songs goldstone claim that he recanted because of what he called new information that since he had published the rip the report was published he came to new conclusions based on new information i went through all the new so-called new information there was no new information it's very clear there was no new information i can even say i'll admit i can't prove it but i talked to a very respected jurist who knows goldstone very well very well he said there's no

way he wrote that we can't in the washington post he knows his style this it was it was very murky calling from him because a large part of the book there then goes on to got it right so i'm going to not let me get to the point after he recounted everybody got scared because in my opinion i can prove it again he recounted not because of the public pressure but because he was blackmailed the public pressure i go through the details doesn't make sense i think it was blackmail he said of course. they found dirt on him everybody even the most you why amnesty international well because after the goldstone everybody got scared what is what is israel got a nice everybody's got a skeleton in their closet and even the most intact couple person has a relative who has a skeleton in their closet personal threats and means that i see over this i think there were personal threats or fear of personal threat and so what happens after.

operation cast lead in two thousand and nine there were about three hundred human rights reports everybody was weighing in after operation protective edge in july august two thousand and fourteen which was many times worse in operation cast lead six thousand homes were destroyed during cast lead eighteen thousand during operation protective protective edge three hundred fifty children killed during task five hundred fifty children joined protective edge there were you know you could count on the fingers of two hands the number of human rights supports human rights watch put out a substantial reports after operation cast lead after operation protective edge one simply forget about what i mean you do say it in the book planet of the national and so am the state was the only one that actually weighed in after the operation protective five reports complete total disaster i want to just say because the city

may be listening and i want to say i don't the book is not written with malice against amnesty i was so crush i was so devastated because i had depended on amnesty if you look at the first four chapters in operation cast lead a lot of it's based on amnesty they put out a very good report of the twenty two days of the. operation cast lead twenty to the death and destruction. stuff on protective edge you wanted to see you were like suffocating what are you doing here i'll give you one example. they put out a report it's called families under the rubble and it describes israel's targeting of homes during operation protective and it says while israel destroyed all these homes many civilians were killed and they said attacks were disproportionate the attacks were indiscriminate but then they say we think there was

a hamas militant in this house and we think it was a hamas militant in that house and we think it was a hamas militant as if as if this was a legitimate military attack that had become excessive but then you read the breaking the silence the israeli soldiers who were in gaza and they described what happened and what you see happened was. i'm using their words they go into a neighborhood they roped off the neighborhood they bring in the denying bulldozers and now this is the words they use they bring in the bulldozer they say both those it goes back and forth back and forth demolish is one house now demolish is another house then it says demolish is a neighborhood back and forth twenty four seven back and forth

they said alice is if they were in a sandbox. i don't no one comes amnesty and pretenses if there were big military targets they're ok visible in i'll just stop you there we're going to go to a break more from professor no one because i'm in part two of going underground. ok everybody i'm stephen ball. hollywood guy you'll suspect every proud american first of all i'm just george bush and our visa to suggest this is my buddy max famous financial guru just a little bit different i'm not. going to harness the inner windows up with all the drama happening in our country and i'm shooting the road have fun meet everyday americans. and closely start to bridge the gap this is the great american people.

the. local wal-mart selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battles that still. produce offspring to tell you that sloppy gossip and tabloid myself of the most important is the day. off the bad guys and tell me you are not cool enough to buy your product. these are the hawks that we along with our audience will watch. welcome back we're still here with professor norman finkelstein can i just take us back to the eighty's the first intifada now that really we're now approaching the.

quote if you quote little ignoring. this is when britain labor and tory governments were refunding them that they were trying shooting to kill shooting doing just beatings mass arrests torture trial detentions sanctions of course and yet they still keep on fighting the child is now in the news i had tamimi. hopes you think of getting a fair trial and the only democracy in the middle east there's no hope of her getting a fair trial if you look at the record in fact the that the israeli human rights organization for the occupied territories it has stopped. coordinating and cooperating with the israeli military trials because it's just forces so we're not going to even bother anymore to go through the motions because all it does is provide a. smokescreen for israel that there's a legal process going on when there isn't so we can leave aside that it's

a done deal she's not getting a fair trial but we have to look out the potential there is a potential there the palestinians have basically tried three strategies they have tried to armed resistance that's gaza the fact of the matter is speaking honestly they want they want into combat with israel three times cast lead protective and most called pillar of the fence in the number two thousand and twelve each time the goal was to say to end the siege then work it didn't work i wanted to and that brutal illegal immoral siege it didn't work the armed resistance is not produced the result the objective that they sought we all can agree it's now kind of not the discussion and. more diplomacy doesn't work it's a waste of time they called the fancy hotels they just talk and doesn't change and eventually america. seems to back that point to the he'll still go to still go to

the meetings because he likes the five star hotels but there his head as the reason but that is the reason i'm not a complete imbecile which is a serious possibility and he doesn't even realize that nothing is happening and joy he would say is for the positive i write stories like. this. and then there is the third possibility which is mass nonviolent resistance and i do believe that it has potential and live action or not i had to go after your book. and some people may wonder because obviously there was a one to one woman that hit israel and one against israel was always has will how will it what is no violence that you're talking about how does it fit in with gun the and with with military well let's be clear i am very emphatic in the book the palestinians have the right to arm resistance they have the right to fire their so-called rockets at israel i do not waver i am not

equal on that point i said at the end i will say i say they have the legal right look at what the law says i go through the law very carefully they have the right to resist with armed force the israeli occupation and the israeli denial of their right to self-determination but there is a big has that separates what you legally have the right to do and what's politically prudent that is to say what works and i say in the book that although they have the legal right and i will not for a moment retreat into. howard this from that point i say politically it has not produced the results that were your announced objective namely to end the siege on the other hand i do believe that mass

nonviolent resistance has the possibility let's take a simple example the image that. illuminated the palestinian oppression during the first intifada was the little children with the stones the children of the stones as it was called and when national public opinion accepted the right of children to throw stones in the face of this is really killing machine they had the right to throw stones against israel the occupiers now imagine use your imagination for a moment the israelis were raging they were furious they were driven mad by this little girl i had them in me who smacks an israeli soldier how dare you smack and goober mention how dare the intermeshed in the subhuman smack and over mention and it's really soldier and they were all these serious debates on israeli t.v.

whether the soldier was showing honor or the shot what the soldier was showing how or this by not reacting to the girl imagine if the palestinians adopted the strategy every woman should smack a soldier smack a soldier today just like we have the meat to movement let them have a me too i snapped a soldier this really should go mad. men and he has an opportunity a possibility now that's according to gandhi by the way one of the things he says is if a woman is being raped and the woman to resist the rapist she smacks him she scratches him she pummels him this is in my view that's not violence that's the person trying to summon the moral courage to die with dignity he says i don't call that violence. he said when you have such a vast disproportion in power between the zero presser and the zero press with the

oppressed in cages and some kinds of what you might call symbolic resistance or he said in my book that's not violence so he said in one nine hundred thirty nine the german verma the army the aloof to invade poland poland comes out with a few tanks a few artillery pieces to resist the german army and air force gandhi said that's not violence either now g. is exactly with the palestinians a few token rockets or a young woman smacking a soldier who's been occupying humiliating degrading destroying the lives of people for fifty years five decades and she doesn't have the right to smack this person

who invades her home kills her cousin you know you have that right even not leave aside the international or even the apostle of nonviolence mahatma gandhi said you have that right i have no doubt none whatsoever if he were alive today and he was as you might know a strong proponent of what he called dr an arab right in palestine it wasn't a palestinian right adverb right in palestine and he was very emphatic in one nine hundred thirty six as you know there was the arab uprising against the british occupation of palestine and gandhi was asked about it and he said look. i wish they would adopt the tactic of nonviolence i wish but he said according to the canons ca and awareness according to the canons of right and wrong they have the right to use armed force in other words according to current legality and morality are people under occupation have the right he says i wish they would choose my

strategy but they aren't under a legal obligation to not resist the people of gaza they are under a legal obligation to just lay down and die of blockade a blockade which is at the point of making the place on livable unlivable the whole international community knows it israel itself says it and they're supposed to lay down and die they don't have the right to resist now that makes no sense to me so i'm not going to fold them i'm going to say i don't think it's a wise or prudent strategy i think if you took the one million children of gaza you put them at the head of a mass demonstration and you marched in those checkpoints which are suffocating

them which are strangling them strangulating them which are throttling them you march in those checkpoints and you say we're going from room we're growing through i think israel will have a very hard time when they kill children yes i'm not doubting it but the point is you're in operation protective they killed five hundred fifty children people of gaza got nothing for it the blockade is still there the siege is still there i think if you bring a bring a million children and. you raise a legitimate demand. and the siege and the blockade this place is unliveable the water is poison this will kill maybe ten kids maybe i'll kill one where the way way before you reach five hundred fifty if they manage to stay nonviolent the people of gaza israel will be forced by international pressure to break the siege

present on finkelstein thank you. joining me now to go through some of the week's headlines is broke and former liberal democrat member of parliament lembit opec he wrote the headlines i have there some for you quick switcheroo u.k. prime minister meets the dutch pm today yes he lost his foreign minister over putin so whether these connections that we've got between german corbin and something russian and salvi at and eastern and evil and evil you know that because it's in the mail online the reason made months jeremy corbyn authorized the release of his stars e-file after he was named in a foreign spy dossier as a contact for a check agent you can't get a much longer headline jack mate obviously you have it's just go i should because i was the first ever journalist in the study had quarters in the i didn't you know in the brig through and told them to keep the files safe so that we could find out things like this i'm safe maybe you were trying to conceal the dirty secrets of jeremy court is your take on this story it's rubbish it's complete rubbish jeremy

corbyn as there have been afraid of his sympathy towards the left he was always a peacenik in his past days before being an even meeting diplomats i mean sir oh of come to get the boris johnson story which we don't have here who's he me toyo this is the other point boris johnson's friend friend has been exposed as a spy too but that doesn't count because he's concerned if you imagine the russian hostage doesn't count it's just a little corbin because he'd loves the russians maybe more so as you can go to defender of father than day on friday to moscow and commemorate all the millions if fought against the nazis unlike was present to the. as a celebration of the bafta this event i want to get now enough ok anyway let's go to a bank seventy three percent owned by the u.k. taxpayer yesterday going well the herald reports r.b.s. never challenged infamous let customer memo says conduct report lots of secret documents have come out suggesting

a certain lack of respect for customers including one suggesting that customers should be allowed to hang another one saying that many of them are tiresome but remain numerous have slightly embarrassing concern i was the head of the financial conduct of already not releasing this until the treasury committee in parliament ordered them to what exactly is going on with regulation of the to here why don't you ask them because a lot of people are asking that same question this seems to be in the public interest because it suggests a certain attitude towards the customers who are bearing the brunt of the collapse of the british and frankly western banking industry they haven't really come forward yet there will be apologies there will be red faces but it does give an insight into how grateful the banks were for us bailing them out maybe if we took the twenty seven percent back as well the bank wouldn't be letting customers hang and i presume that wasn't literally let's not go to a tweet from a very senior figure in the turkish government yes this is a complicated story. colleen has tweeted he's a government spokesman into into his italian translate into english being

a chance they didn't says the news reports of people id why p.t. i'll explain that in a minute agreements with the regime on afrin or apparently for propaganda purposes however it does not mean there are not some secret and dirty bargains going on whatever happens zayton dolly military action will continue taking place and it will reach its goal complicated to allow the turks in the truck that strike what's really underlying this is a web of intrigue which suggests that america's been fighting terror with terror is another group called the p.k. k. which is regarded as a terrorist organization but american money american arms five thousand truckloads . weapons have somehow been poured into this mass presumably to fight assad but actually that really hasn't made much of an impact except to give the terrorists songs that's why it's so complex it's not that complex russia syria the united states working with the allies in africa against britain and turkey no that's

completely not the case nato civil war well it's nato civil war but it's not that civil war within the civil war because it's not all clear why america is essentially backing both sides turkey is claiming that they're the ones who are sorting out the problem to some extent it looks like they're right but i'm telling you it's exactly the biased well i think it should be on the side of washington or mosco finally united i can't believe you just said it's against london now but anyway i meant ok self at the same time thank you that's it for the show will be back on saturday would be off the co-author of britain's twenty fifty modern slavery act the bishop of dolby alice to redfern if the idea of modern slavery in a society now driven to use food banks and rules the poor till then by social media as you know topping fifty years to the day of the death of marxist historian of the english revolution christopher hill author of the world turned upside down.

is getting international recognition with the help of israel at least in the world of zoos. dismiss it. like you know. this isn't my cup of tea is going to sunday i'll be. the only palestinians who gets the most help from its jerusalem counterparts i don't think there's some of those. under that vision to look at. and the earth is all off. i know i'm going to. do more. but there's a. news

paper trying to german media with fake evidence of a russian troll farms meddling in the country's politics. on the program or going home for suspected russian vaults twitter is believed to have blocked. american. medal winning russian curlers. for. the winter olympics will take his case to sports. to discover why. you're cheating in from right around the world this summer welcome to most.