and i know that most foreigners believe that russia is this very tightly controlled society and politically that may be the case sometimes but i wonder if you allow for a possibility. conceived and funded this operation who is sometimes referred to as putin's former chef was actually doing that on his own as an experiment with social media rather than following or trying to execute direct orders from the kremlin. i have no idea both relationship between mr pretty goes on mr putin but based on my more this knowledge about how russian society ministration work in general i don't because the specificity of current russian system unlike the soviet system where everything was really centralized and very much well organized. now we have the opposite situation yes the state.

obviously uses some how to call it nontraditional means sometimes to compensate for all those weaknesses of russian russian system because it's no secret that. many components of influence power economy capacity russia is much weaker than the united states but it can be compensated by by some. what i'm asking you about is the propensity of the of russia to produce these ad hoc actions what you're saying is that as the russian state sometimes outsourcing is that but i think also what many foreigners don't understand is this call which the russian system allows for personal and sometimes even eleven and malevolent initiative yeah absolutely that's what i wanted to say that sometimes it is the case that. the state is using it but in many other cases

this is a strange mixture of private initiative commercial initiative sometimes there are people with some political use. they they do it the maybe believe the russian state but it's not a developmental answer to see that the russian state the kremlin may cheer upon without actually the kremlin for asking the kremlin first absolutely and to believe that mr putin. controls. with what is happening in russia or. would be the case we see that our society is much much much worse organized and i think. competency when it comes to social media is rather questionable it is well known that he's not using smartphone so he's knowledge of. tool of communication. maybe he's in charge so maybe he is the one who should be indicted after all now if

you look at some of the output of the troll sweatshop it uses magical language what they would call rather than american english i think shows very poor knowledge of the american domestic politics brush style to it all you know it looks very amateur at the level of a high school newspaper at bath and yet a lot of very well placed in very well educated people in the united states take it as nothing. either declaration or an act of waging war on the united states and when you see such a gap between reaction and an action there must be something else involved perhaps some other articulated fear is what could that be. is going through a very deep domestic crisis this is a political crisis but more than that this is a. perception and that's very much

understandable because united states. after the cold war used to feel. the all. over the world. for understandable reasons because after the cold war for quite a long time. it was no country who could challenge. even contradict. for that matter even contradict him conceptually there were no ideas who could be offered as an alternative. no americans so the challenge to american supremacy came not from the outside not from russia not from china but from the inside of society and that came as such a big shock to us establishment that i think what we see now or around russia and this hyper will ization over russian activities is psychological or understandable

to find somebody outside the united states who is responsible for there while the real problem is in. the open quote george h. w. bush has said that america won the cold war by the grace of god which definitely solidified the u.s. perception as a sort of god's chosen nation where the mission and i think. and you also said a number of occasions that he see the current tensions as either the withering or perhaps the painful death of that very mission which actually began. before trumpet it started. but what trumps it's offering you know they say america first slogan it could be used as a legitimate policy but this is not the south narrative it does not answer the question of who we are as a nation what could possibly come to replace that sounds of mission of you know sort of pushing their foreign towards democratic salvation. limited extent i know

united states the idea of exceptionalism. u.s. mission is indispensable so this is this is really one of. grounds and foundations of u.s. statehood and u.s. political cultural political psychology so it will not change i think the united states now are. americans now are facing a period of uncertainty which is to be used to. really and out to this new world because dominance is impossible in stone the understanding of this started not even during obama's presidency but after iraq war even bush presidents started to realize this imperial overstretch frequently used notion from the sounds it was just the reaction to. america started to understand

the limits of the best city of the county which is maybe most powerful in history but still and in this regard i think next. i don't know eight fifteen years maybe ten us will we'll try to find new ways how to accommodate. to this new world but it will be back. because. having to project over the rest of the world. to project power next. president in ten years' time will be back to the. world now as americans like to say perception is reality and on some level it doesn't really matter whether russia intervened or not. as you pointed out. russia

madeleine theme has already taken on the life of its own it created beleaguered infrastructure which allows for the. increased pressure on russia with or without any particular pretax. i wonder how do you think it should change the kremlin's calculation of. yes of course the. democracy. has no becoming. states. we can agree or disagree but this is a fact of life which will. influence. for years to come he said in one of the interviews that the main thing that putin has been trying to teach the west is essentially a cause and effect relationship if you take action there will be consequences and i think what this whole russia gate story taught him is that sometimes there are there is in the end a fact without

a cause or an effect that is hugely disproportionate to a cause and that is a totally different ballgame because forecasting irrationality is much more difficult than forecasting irrationality of your adversary do you think that will make russia's policy more risk averse or on the contrary more daring so are i wouldn't call it. we can. challenge the main premise the rush into the interview but as you sat now for americans as fact of life we should we should take it into account they assume it happened the profound mistrust will persist at the same time based on conceptual documents issued by trump administration says december last year we see there the cold war approach and mentality is completely back in full scale they basically repeat the same as regular ministration or the new stations before him. which means that we are in the

situation of the cold war when mechanisms of. managing danger manage and managing risks were absolutely indispensable and essential but in much war situation one is known the existing because americans believe that the russians are able to intervene in the core of their soul and so on. this is very dangerous situation if i wouldn't call it irrational it's something else they believe in their russian ality we believe in our so. the main task is to try to reestablish some mechanisms of. risk management but we have acceptance that this time we need to double or triple efforts to to build up trust because this trust is much worse than forty years ago well mr look and if we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just

a few moments they tend. to . feel genuinely able bottle sorry china six oir. her. or. her. an estimated eighty percent under-age refugees are now living in greece. you know still more go. to your home in the whole food thing. many sell their bodies just to make ends meet. on the second on the on the system but. this isn't. i don't like things.

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a because i want to share what i think what i know about the beautiful guy was great so one more chance with. a nice minute. welcome back to worlds apart of the federal account of editor in chief of russian global affairs magazine solar can if you call trump an operator of transition from extroversion to enter version an american policy which you interpret not as isolation is but rather as the prevalence of national interest over the global outreach and from what i gather you don't see that as

a particularly positive development for russia even though russia and to some extent china have long called for it is that an example of be careful what you wish for i don't think that anybody expected the united states to make such a. drastic turn to this america first but. what russia dreams of biology was a multi-polar world they're fucked or trumps policy contributes to that because if america says that global leadership is not needed anymore and they try to become the strongest the mightiest but one of those countries think on the walls to each that means that others will inevitably do the see. america first approach when it comes from the united states automatically generates me first world everybody's

first and of course in this situation these advantages are huge because multi-polar world per se is not a solution to india seeing that's a killer tick pretty dangerous competition and we see that since united states. abandon this thread through four warble leadership. who are the uncertainty and unpredictability has increased well since you mentioned disadvantages of that the regime and let me ask you about the advantages because the russian diplomacy prides itself on its negotiating and consensus building skills it. considers itself as an heir to these biz and time grand strategy of it which is essentially at you know being a master of caution working both with france and allies and if that's indeed the case i would think that this reformatting of the international system would offer the russian diplomacy not only some very exciting opportunity but also a very broad canvas to to apply its skills is that the case this is

a case. of the call to arms we see in the middle east for example where russia is really uniquely situated to have. good working relationships with exactly all those is the only country which which can enjoy this but it's not enough we see how it is not enough it's not enough or achieving results we see even in syria how difficult. to find common ground with turkey just with turkey not to talk about all of the walls so russia russia is better situated than others . in a success if we if we take the whole world that's even worse because. countries which russia sees. friendly china which is true china is very

much friendly but it doesn't mean the china is really due to. compromise any of their national missile caravan and it's essentially to play either one somebody in forces. on vision on you or you try to work out something that could benefit both sides obviously the second one is far more laborious and no success is guaranteed but i think. what is really important to mr putin at least is the principle because if you used to first option is not only unfair i think in the russian world view but it is also highly detrimental because it simply increases the disco for potential mistakes absolutely first off and is not an option for russia these only existing two. it wasn't of downton and in no interest to make russia part of somebody else's construction which didn't work and it could not work it was very i don't know naive to believe. but i think that the

russian problem now is in years to come. as broke loose for many countries in the world is not of external nature and someone turned on the russia has exhausted a certain moral of development which worked pretty well in. to solve zones and early these decayed hydrocarbon rant and then obviously not only as assignment is just is just a part of this i mean broader i mean the russian. starting from ninety one even under president yeltsin and the president putin and the president of egypt during all this time was actually to get back to the table where the most important international decision are being taken and russia by using different means russia succeeded to get and that was of course reaction to the tragic collapse of the

state who in one thousand nine hundred. but you know the question is what next what to do with this position russia is accepted. accepted as a part of the group of most most mighty powers and now russia needs to understand. why did you need. these for for for someone to rule the world you may disagree with me and but. my perception is that there is actually a nor controversy and full acceptance among their russian ruling elite that you have to build the country from within and that actually involves partially some. liberalization of the country economic liberalization the opening up of the system politically electional laws on the eve of this presidential elections have been significantly east. i think the discourse in russia the media just course in russia

is also maybe more polarized than before but i think it's also freer than before there is a greater. influence of the internet and far more freer discussion on the internet on the russian. public reality i know you said a few years ago that putin's main idea was to sort of push back against the us. liberal democracy and give russia some space to develop on its own accord don't you think that right at the time when the united states gave up on the idea of democrat dies in russia putin picked that idea not necessarily as his own conviction but simply as as a method of country's development as well as potentially. a method of rehabilitating russia on the on the global stage. of policy. issues understandable because on the one hand. there are signs of versified the

system i wouldn't i wouldn't say open because openness into this world has so many backsides so it's quite quite dangerous but to diversify to make it more. sustainable not to rely on single person one single institution which is called the russian presidency and i think all understand and all agree that this is needed at the same time. again very legitimate fear is the. manager. of state in today's world is very much under under pressure and this is the biggest. threat biggest risk for any country even for the united states to lose control over what is going on. it happened in the middle east by the way just confirm that. society is strong

centralized are not very much sustainable but the opposite model is even worse you've noted in several of your articles that. the western model of democracy is also undergoing some division there is a crisis of all political parties in the west i think there is also a crisis of. media especially in the united states when the media just chorus takes over the political decision making i mean there should be some mutual. intermingling between the two but when policy is blather exclusively by media just course i think that it would agree that perhaps a recipe for disaster do you think russia even the kremlin even understands at this point what kind of model it's most likely to be a hybrid model but what kind of model it wants russia to you fit in. there is

a clear vision of a model first of all mr putin is not a big strategic thinker not because he's stupid but because he's really is a list he believes in. force is a very. key history but also we live in such a. through the vision time that everything is changing very fast so to strategize almost doesn't make any sense because everything will change to morrow so in this regard he is not about to visions his advantage to try to be prepared for anything can happen in the future including the necessity on his own part to step down from power because that is absolutely i think he. many people around here are aware that this next monday it will be the

last one for him he is not in mood to become a russian version of robot will go to all he will just see it is his own failure if he will need to stay again but of course in the system like ours where not just centralized system but the system where for some objective reasons the legitimacy of the state is very much tied to legitimacy of the president it happened essentially you're saying that putin's last term in office will be. geared towards putin overcoming the fact of the putinism the system that he himself has created to certain extent not to overcome but to transform i don't think he will abruptly leave. go to pensions mountains he certainly will try to make it s. he'll as he likes to do normal a step by step. norma's challenge enormous challenge because russia as it

emerged after twenty first century basically this is a russia very much. characterized by putin's. and it will be very difficult for this person to start to. to decouple. himself from from the state especially when the international pressure is so significant we talked about russian foreign policy in the first part and i think sometimes building at relationship across the globe is easier than being on good terms with the if your neighbors. there was a mutual irritation building between russia and europe russia and ukraine long before two thousand and fourteen but i think since then it became an open one we're marking the fourth anniversary of the might an uprising there this week do you see any way out of the current predicament. i don't. know.

the many reasons there is pretty bad political situation in q i don't see any responsible forces there who would be interested in moving forward on the conciliation i don't see frankly any bigger interest in russia i don't see at all european role which is very bad looking for example the political mess in germany suddenly germany which used to be driving force for all this missed process . no so much introverts and they are busy with the mystic affairs they have no time and energy and butter docks ago the only remaining line is again between russia and the united states and all clear communication is almost the only one which can produce interesting. and i hope actually that it will do because americans with all of the stone the bull claims on the russian side of the americas are at least

able to do something to achieve something unlike europe but for the foreseeable future my only hope is that the situation will remain stable this status quo will will remain without major drastic changes while on this very suffering not we have to leave it there really appreciate your time today and to our viewers please keep the conversation going in our social media pages as for me to see you again same place same time here and all the parts. of.

palestine is getting international recognition with the help of israel at least in the world of zoos i'm in bill fiddlesticks mission to do it looking for you like you know that this isn't my cup of tea is something i'm going to go to study hall maybe a bit you know chango about a tough job or they should be the only palestinians who gets the most help from its jerusalem counterparts i don't think there's some of those who in the world under the oak vision could not only could give us. i know it does all of us not just you have to this lady of the most of that you had i know if you continue in the doesn't seem to do more commitments also don't piss off. kind of financial survival john today was all about money laundering first to visit

this cash into three different. oh good this is a good start well we have our three banks all set up here maybe something in your something in america something overseas in the cayman islands or do we do all these banks are complicit in the kleptocracy who decide to give mccall and say hey i'm ready to do some serious money laundering ok let's see how we did while we've got a nice luxury watch for max and for stacy oh beautiful jewelry how about. luxury automobile again for a match you know what money laundering is highly illegal. much keyser of course.

russian athletes at the winter olympics in the. final. closing ceremony in a few hours. in syria. the country. plus. germany. russia meddling in the country's politics only to realize it was a.