components of influence power or. capacity is much weaker than states can be compensated by. what i'm asking you about is the propensity of the russia to produce these ad hoc actions what you're saying is that as the russians they sometimes outsource but i think also what many foreigners don't understand is this cold which the russian system allows for personal and sometimes even eleven and malevolent initiative absolutely. sometimes. the state is using it but there are many other. strange mixture of private. commercial and sometimes there are people with some political use. the maybe believe the russians the. russian state the kremlin. without actually the kremlin for asking the kremlin

first absolutely to believe the. controls. with what is happening in russia or they have also come to. see that our society is much much much worse organized and i think the importance on competency when it comes to social media is rather questionable it is well known that he's not using smartphones so he's knowledge of. tool of communication. maybe he's in charge so maybe he's his divine chris should be indicted after all now if you look at some of the output of the troll sweatshop it uses magical language what we would call rather than american english i think shows very poor knowledge of the american domestic politics brush style to it all you know the.

it looks very amateur at the level of a high school newspaper at bath and yet a lot of very well placed in very well educated people in the united states take it as nothing. either declaration or an act of waging war on the united states and when you see such a gap between reaction and an action there must be something else involved perhaps some other an articulated fear is what could that be united states is going through very deep domestic crisis this is a political crisis but more than that this is a crisis of. self perception and that's very much understandable because united states. after the cold war used to feel itself as the ultimate muster of the world of the universe for understandable reasons because after the cold war for quite

a long time. it was no country who could challenge the united states and even contradict for that matter even contradict them conceptually there were no ideas who could be offered as an alternative. no americans so the challenge to american supremacy came not from the outside not from russia not from china but from the inside of society and that came big shock to us establishment that i think what we see now or around russia and this hyper will is eastern over russia this is psychological that understandable to find. the united states who is responsible for there while the real problem is in. the open quote george h. w. bush has said that america won the cold war by the grace of god reach definitely solidified the u.s. perception as a sort of god's chosen nation where the mission and i think. and you also.

said a number of occasions that you see the current tensions as either the withering or perhaps the painful death of that very mission which actually began. before trumpet it started. but what trumps what is offering you know this america first slogan it could be used as a legitimate policy but this is not the south narrative it does not answer the question of who we are as a nation what could possibly come to replace that sounds of mission of you know sort of pushing their foreign towards democratic salvation. limited extent i know united states the idea of exceptionalism. u.s. mission is indispensable so this is this is really one of. grounds and foundations of u.s. statehood and u.s. political cultural political psychology so it will not change i think the united

states now are. americans now are facing a period of uncertainty which is to be used to. a real doubt to this new world because dominance is impossible stunt the understanding of this started not even during obama's presidency but after iraq war even bush presidency started to realize this imperial overstretch frequently used notion from the sounds it was just the reaction to. america started to understand the limits of capacity of the county which is maybe most powerful in history but still and in this regard i think next. i don't know eight fifteen years maybe ten us will try to find new ways how to

accommodate. into this new world but it will be back. because. having to project over the rest of the world. to project power next. president in ten years' time will be back to the. world now as americans like to say perception is reality and on some level it doesn't really matter whether russia intervened or not. as you pointed out. russia madeleine theme has already taking on the life of its own it created delete the infrastructure which allows for the. increased pressure on russia. without any particular pretext. i wonder how do you think it should change the kremlin's calculation of. russia. of course

the. democracy. has no becoming. states. with. which will. influence. for years to come he said in one of the interviews that the main thing that putin has been trying to teach the west is essentially a cause and effect relationship if you take action there will be consequences and i think what this whole russia gate story told him is that sometimes there are there isn't an effect without a cause or and in fact that is hugely disproportionate to a cause and that is a totally different ballgame because forecasting irrationality is much more difficult than forecasting a rationality of your adversary do you think that will make russia policy more risk averse or on the contrary more daring so are i wouldn't call it that we

can. challenge the main premise the rush into the interview but as you sat now for americans as fact of life we should we should take it into account they assume it happened the profound mistrust will persist at the same time based on conceptual documents issued by trumpet ministrations is december last year we see there the cold war approach and mentality is completely back in full scale they basically repeat the same as regular ministration or a new stations before him. which means that we are in the situation of the cold war when the mechanisms of. managing they injure them engine managing risks were absolutely indispensable in the social but in much war situation one is not only existing because americans believe that the russians

are able to intervene in the core of their soul and so on. this is a very dangerous situation i wouldn't call it irrational it's something else the belief in their russian i would say we believe in the word so. the main task is to try to reestablish some mechanisms of. risk management but we accept that this time we need to double or triple efforts to build up trust because this trust is much was then forty years ago well mr look and if we have to take a short break now but we will be back in just a few moments they tend to. think. that.

the doings of the fraser would be very clear. the way. the. management. and they are they they when they get them they have. to meet you feel. it is very. sad yeah and then what do you how much they have become a something like nobody loves local just as i do you want to know what is my mum going to mind if the soon to be my own will mean that with good news you still want the constant negative cash to.

join me every first week on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to get us from the world of politics school or business i'm show business i'll see you then. welcome back to worlds apart of the federal account of editor in chief of russian global affairs magazine solar can if you call trump an operator of transition from extroversion to intervention in american policy reach you interpret not as isolation is better rather as the prevalence of national interest over the global outreach and from what i gather you don't see that as

a particularly positive development for russia even though russia and to some extent china have long called for it is that an example of be careful what you wish for i don't think that anybody expected the united states to make such a. drastic turn to america first but. what russia dreams of biology was a multi-polar world they're fucked or trumps policy contributes to that because if america says that global leadership is not needed anymore and they try to become the strongest the mightiest but one of those countries the rating on the world's teach that means that others will inevitably do the see. america first approach when it comes from the united states automatically generates me first world everybody's first and of course in this situation these advantages are

huge because multi-polar world per se is not a solution to india seeing that's a killer tick pretty dangerous competition and we see that since united states abandon this rhetoric so we'll believe this ship it's civil wars the uncertainty unpredictability has increased well since you mentioned. advantages of that the arrangement let me ask you about the advantages because the russian diplomacy prides itself on its negotiating and consensus building skills it. considers itself as an error bisan time grand strategy which is essentially as you know being a master of caution working both with friends and allies and if that's indeed the case i would think that this reformatting of the international system would offer the russian diplomacy not only some very exciting opportunity but also a very broad can of us to to apply it skills is that the case this is the case.

we see in the middle east for example where russia is really uniquely situated. good working relationships with exactly all those is the only country which which can enjoy this but it's not enough we see it's not enough it's not enough or achieving results we see even in syria how difficult. to find common ground turkey just you know to talk about. walls so russia russia is better situated than others. in a success if we if we take the whole world that's even worse because. countries which russia sees. friendly china which is too much friendly but but it doesn't mean the china is really due to.

compromise in the. midst of a caravan and it's essentially a. either one somebody in forces his own vision on you or you try to work out something. could benefit both sides obviously the second one is far more laborious and no successes. guaranteed but i think what what is really important to mr putin at least is the principle because if you're used to first option it's not only unfair i think in the russian world view but it is also highly detrimental because it simply increases the discount for potential mistakes absolutely first off and is not an option for russia these only existing two to take it wasn't down to ninety nine to just to make russia part of somebody else's construction which didn't work and it could not work it was very i don't know naive to believe. but i think that

the russian problem now is in years to come. as problems for many countries in the world is not of external nature and someone turned on the russia has exhausted a certain moral of the element which worked pretty well in. two thousand and. eight hydrocarbon rant and then obviously not only as assignment is just is just a part of this i mean broader i mean the russian. starting from ninety one even under president yeltsin and the president putin and the president of egypt during all this time was actually to get back to the table where the most important international decision are being taken and russia by diffusing different means russia succeeded to get and that was of course a reaction to the tragic collapse of the state who in one thousand nine hundred.

but you know the question is what next what to do with this position russia is accepted. accepted as a part of the group of most most mighty powers and now russia needs to understand. why did you need. these for for for someone to rule the world well you may disagree with me and but. my perception is that there is actually a nor controversy and full acceptance among their russian ruling elite that you have to build the country from within and that actually involves partially some. liberalization of the country economic liberalization the opening up of the system politically. laws on the eve of this presidential elections have been significantly east. i think the discourse in russia the media discourse in russia is also maybe

more polarized than before but i think it's also freer than before there is a greater. influence of the internet and far more freer discussion on the internet on the russian. public reality i know you said a few years ago that putin's main idea was to sort of push back against the us. liberal democracy and give russia some space to develop on its own accord don't you think that right at the time when the united states gave up on the idea of democrat dies in russia putin picked that idea not necessarily as his own conviction but simply as as a method of country's development as well as potentially. a method of rehabilitating russia on the on the global stage. the polish asking. the stone the ball because on the

one hand. there are signs of attempts to diversify the system i wouldn't i wouldn't say open because openness into this world has so many backsides so it's quite quite dangerous but to diversify to make it more. sustainable and not to rely on one single person one single institution which is called the russian presidency and i think all understand and all agree that is needed at the same time . again very legitimate fear is that. ménage ability of state in today's world is very much under under pressure and this is the biggest. threat biggest risk for any country even for the united states to loose control over what is going on. that happened in the middle east by the way just confirmed that.

are. sustainable but the opposite more though. you've noted in several of your articles that. the western model of democracy is also on there going some division there is a crisis of all political parties in the west i think there is also a crisis of. media especially in the united states when the media just. takes over the political decision making i mean there should be some. intermingling between the two but when policy is. exclusively by media just course i think that it would agree that perhaps a recipe for disaster do you think russia even the kremlin even understands at this point what kind of model it's most likely to be a hybrid model but what kind of model it wants russia to fit in.

because he's stupid because. he believes. forces and we humans are in. history but also we live in. through the zeeshan time that everything is changing very fast so to strategize almost doesn't make any sense because everything will change to morrow so in this regard he is not about visions his advantage to try to be prepared for anything can happen in the future including the necessity here on his own part to step down from power because that is absolutely i think he mini people around him are aware that this next monday it will be the last one for him he is not in mood to become

a russian version of robot will go to all he will just see it is his own failure if he will need to stay again but of course in the system like ours where not just centralized system but the system where for some objective reasons the legitimacy of the state is very much tied to legitimacy of the president it happened essentially you're saying that putin's last term in office will be. geared towards putin overcoming the fact of the putinism the system that he himself has created to certain extent not to overcome but to transform i don't think he will abruptly leave. go to pensions mountains he certainly will try to make it as he'll as he likes to do normal a step by step by this enormous challenge enormous challenge because russia as it

emerged after twenty first century basically this is a russia very much. characterized by putin's. and it will be very difficult for this person to start to. to decouple. himself from from the state especially when the international pressure is so significant we talked about russian foreign policy in the first part and i think sometimes building at relationship across the globe is easier than being on good terms with the if your neighbors. there was a mutual irritation building between russia and europe russia and ukraine long before two thousand and fourteen but i think since then it became an open one we're marking the fourth anniversary of the might an uprising the this week do you see any way out of the current predicament. i don't. know.

the many reasons there is pretty bad political situation in q i don't see any responsible forces there who would be interested in moving forward on the conciliation i don't see frankly any big interest in russia i don't see at all european role which is very bad but looking for example political mess in germany. germany which used to be driving force for all this mess process. no so much introverts and they are busy with the mystic affairs they have no time and energy and butter docks ago the only remaining line is again between russia and the united states and all clear communication is almost the only one we can produce in this thing. and i hope actually that it will do because americans with all of the stone the bull claims on the russian side of the americas are at least

able to do something to achieve something unlike europe but for the foreseeable future my only hope is that the situation will remain stable this state of school will will remain without major drastic changes while on this very suffering not we have to leave it there really appreciate your time today and to our viewers please keep the conversation going on our social media pages as for me hope to see you again same place same time here and all the party.

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