welcome to. shevardnadze afghanistan is still struggling to contain their resurgent taliban eighteen years after nato troops went into the country to get rid of the extremist groups can't people manage and what can the west do to help well i asked former chief of afghan national intelligence. the afghan army is fending off relentless taliban attacks the leadership in kabul is getting ready for sentiment. repeating cools for direct talks over and over again in the war ended by negotiating with

a bitter enemy. foreign backers yielding to support for the extremists a live the war before for many more years until one side. acts intelligence chief of afghanistan. welcome to the show it's really great to have you with us mr sell at the latest international conference on afghanistan has been held in neighboring was back to stand with more than twenty countries taken part time i wasn't there that make any sense to hold meetings like that without one side of the conflict present. i think it does make a lot of sense and i'm very glad the taliban were not there they should be treated like a terrorist group and a terrorist group should not be invited to an international event the aim of the tascam conference was to endorse support the position of the afghan government in regards to the peace process it was not. aimed to be quit the democratic process with a terrorist group so absence of the taliban is not

a is not that we get it it's a pleasure so they've got a sound peace process is being discussed at several platforms to kabul process conference down the conference in tashkent. has offered to host peace talks with the taliban will even more events like this help to bring the taliban to negotiating table does the increasing number of international conferences here downplay the significance of the talks themselves. well you are very right their approach has been for ak men to this fragmentation is not because of afghanistan it this fragmentation is is due to the growing mishandle standing between wave. players in the world the stage because there was there hasn't been cohesion on the side of the international community and to be harnessed the very terminology international community has lost it is. unified to meaning and

definition so they are for various countries have tried to show they can do something for this globe for this part of the world there are far there has been kabul process a stumble process and now tashi process or a conference at their last sometimes back moscow process but what distinguishes. the conference from the rest is participation of russia the highest higher level foreign minister lavrov was the e.u. . chief or only was was there and that makes gives it a new dimension and we are very pleased that the countries of the region particularly our near neighbors who voided to send. to the geishas to kabul process

will come the tascam conference present ghani offered peace talks with the taliban last month but the taliban called for direct talks with washington instead of kabul if this to take place to trust americans with afghanistan's future. well we understand why the. taliban want to negotiate directly with foreign countries because they want to lead to to my eyes their claim that they are not a terrorist group they own afghanistan and i'm very glad. foreign friends are refusing to give them that access and that chance because if they ever i get it to speak to the taliban directly that will downgrade the position of afghan government asks a legitimate state the sole representative of afghanistan and the world stage and it will also set of

a very bad priests and and for for other conflicts cases. mentioned earlier the world has already the has. black holes and it is a structure and their family county negotiates with a man a state actor involved in terror activities directly. the unintended consequences will be that damaging the relative the relative peace and stability that is there are made to along to it will also boost the morale of all those illegitimate terrorists and insurgents groups who want to undermine. constitutional law out of the not times in afghanistan but where so that's not be a good thing to do you have been opposed to making a deal with the taliban for a long time you want them defeated and step but i mean how many more errors will

that take if the deal stops bloodshed isn't it worth making. you are absolutely right we are we are suffering there is no doubt our people are suffering the economic development slowdown afghan civilians. are facing the stress and depression and life so there is a thirst for peace and we are ready to pay a price to achieve peace about who we are not going to sacrifice our dignity on harner to achieve it so therefore they packages out and that is the ball is in the court of the taliban and pakistanis who are supporting terrorism in our region and they can conference clearly showed that the position of afghanistan has legitimacy both domestic and international and if the taliban reject to engage in

peace process and if there backer that the pakistanis do not convince them or put pressure on them to engage in the peace process both the taliban and the pakistanis will face fire their isolation the continuity of the of the fighting and war no doubt is is. this costly for us from multiple dimensions and multiple aspects but this situation. is not going to insure a bright future part of the pakistanis are far the taliban for the taliban either so our hope is that we do a recalculation and we revisit the overall policies which has kept our region fragmented divide it in gauged in proxy conflict and policies of mammon palatial for so many years for so many decades we should learn from from the

from other corners of the world where economic cooperation. regional cooperation has risk oot the nations from state to office this depression and backwater that misunderstanding they have braced a better future so why don't we why don't we take ourselves out of the. nineteen and twentieth century politics member race they need to live with the new realities so the taliban has to disarm integrate into afghan society that's what you're saying and ok maybe there are and their arms and guns can be taken away but what about their ideology they are not like a regular armed or so insurgency they want to impose a lifestyle on the country how can you make them give that up. well the issue is not the taliban guns are the taliban ideology the issue is to taking one the

taliban enjoy safe haven and pakistan so when we put pressure on the taliban fighters their leaders are our way they are not on their pressure they continue to . operation provide logistics from beyond beyond our borders so that's a matter of concern and the second thing which. is the taliban is a dogmatic approach on policies if they i agreed to be part of a poor alist exercise. they will melt down the she at are active in this and pressure off a pool or a list excess this group will make them in a live and a very short span of time that is why both the pakistanis and the taliban and are stunned that if they do not get some hard come sessions which will ensure.

ensure their survival as a militant group they will not engage into any peace process so we are not afraid of taliban becoming part of the society because the afghan society as a whole will reject them democratically and the biggest enemy off half of the taliban is not necessarily the nato guns or our political rejection of the taliban the biggest enemy of the taliban is democracy itself and therefore they will do everything in their power to either undermine it or keep it a taliban ghetto within a democratic process and within a democratic a space so they come survive. present ghani said that the taliban could be recognised as a political party and welcomed into the political process as part of any potential peace deal why would the taliban need that i mean they are doing well on frontline

they are a warrior movement so they really need to sit in parliament. well i do not necessarily argue the notion that they are doing where they are they are they're living in hell no there is no education and they come to road there is no a state system it is all rule of political but the. networks it's some people say it's a medieval rule at least in the medieval times if we have nothing there was poetry . or something but in the talabani areas except except terror except economy based on poppy trafficking except torture of the dissidents except a silent population like a graveyard i don't think we should call that they are doing well no they're not doing well it's it's life like in him. i spoke to chief executive of afghanistan.

and he told me that the taliban cannot win the war by military means you territory and they're having success after success. militarily at least is it right to be so sure they won't win well they are doing they are doing a spectacular urban attacks no doubt because they killed so many civilians and these. car bombs are suicide attacks and they dominate the news and then they cause pain but that is not military victory that's that's terrorism the fact that they have not been able to kitty ate a quote unquote country road zones for themselves and side afghanistan so they want to bring the pain to the cities to show the exist in the scene to show they are and. to discontent amongst the amongst the civilian

population. the government saying you are the government cannot protect you but far the talos. to be able to undo their chief moments of the last sixteen years and over. time really that's about a wildfire. all right mr sal i would take a short break right now and where we're back we'll continue talking to. a former head of afghan intelligence about what needs to be done until end the war in afghanistan stay with us.

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just said. yes scotland yard did not look for the perpetrators they were covering up their tricks you know the laws of the day are skeered there's a kid there for he didn't russia will find out who did it and personal i think it was ukraine who did. what he wants russia to clash with the rest of the world's. most expensive fish in the world each one is selling for tens of thousands of euros it continues to grow its entire life if it was thirty years old you might have a two ton fish out there and yet they don't get that big today because we're way

too good at catching. it's only women instead of a much larger mission was once there and that was much more widely distributed we have politicians that are in office for a few years they have to get reelected everything is very very short term our system is not suited and is not geared toward long term survival and that's why we have the catastrophes. and we're back with former spy chief of afghanistan on a role asked talking about the international aspects of afghan war mr salah why is it that the afghan army trained and equipped by the best militaries in the world having a hard time destroying the taliban the afghan army we are talking about is not

sixteen years old that some meth americans got busy on a stack in and there are work of building security institutions for afghanistan was abandoned. for another six eighty years in that mean time however they never acknowledged that we are totally busy with iraq so actually. the robust to work to strengthen our forces this started in late two thousand in late two thousand and nine and from two thousand and three to two thousand and ten almost we were we were. brushed under the under the carpet so and that is the period when the taliban reemerge if an insurgent our terrorist group enjoys foreign sanctuary no matter how much military pressure you put on them they will be in the one way or another

to re hibernated themselves and come back and it will be like cutting the grass and not taken the roots out so the root saw and the pakistani matter are religious and for us that act which continuously produce these terrorists and send them send them to us it isn't the interest of russia and the countries in central asia to to forget the american agenda here and also joined forces with us to defeat this phenomena if afghanistan got for a forbidden is dominated by this. district clerical movement called taliban with the roots and. my process and pakistan's karachi law whore and push our their next step us as they did in the

ninety's would be to export their proton ideology to central asia and thus directly to return russia so i think we should. not the new narrative which suits short term interest we're just to say america is failing here no if this thing doesn't go well we will all fail and we should not be happy to fail collectively so you're saying that pakistani intelligence provide support for the taliban what exactly can be done to make pakistan cut their ties to them. i think the pakistanis have. you know a set of interests. which they believe they cannot achieve those goals through engaging the state to a state dialogue so they find a proxy battles backing radical terrorist groups as part of their

interest there is a belief in pakistan that the country has to deterrence one deterrence is a nuclear bomb bomb the other says radical groups which are expendable and pakistan uses these groups to promote its centrist and expand its influence and a. bizarre way and the region so when we are saying that what it takes to what it takes to convents the pakistanis to stop this it means we want to do we want to undo at least fifty years of very solid time a strict way of thinking on contact and pakistan. support for radical groups from pakistan to stop that not after nine eleven but it started before the seventy's pakistan was used to counter the influence of the soviet union just tell

me is pakistan in control of the taliban or is it just supporting them with bases and materials can islam about really tell the taliban what to do absolutely we are if we look at the structure of the taliban we are talking about a group with the latter structure they expend about taliban who get killed like flies and they are they are the narry fighters who are you know being used as expendable limbs the metal level taliban these are the commanders who also get killed wounded. the taliban managed to replace them and there is the strategic level less thirty's equal level is not suffering all they are not under pressure they are in karachi they are in lahore they are in push our they are in the basements of pakistani pakistani army so their strategic mind of the

taliban is not afghan best to teach it brain of the taliban is actually g.h.q. pindi the pakistan army. forces they trained and sent to afghanistan they are just acting like a demolishing force they are not in control so they can't conferences therefore very important to get it out realize ation that actual peace comes when we recognize the reality that they actually leadership of the taliban is the pakistan army and if we cannot we cannot sort the problem out dot level the regardless of how much we peel off the taliban the problem will continue so was the point for pakistan to have a never ending war on its border why do you support the conflict won't be more profitable to have a peaceful afghanistan as a neighbor exactly you know exactly that is what we are advocating that's what we

are lobbying that's the logic we use we say. let this trial at this test a state to state relationship and see if you cannot achieve un legitimate. interest and if you cannot overcome your anxieties through promoting bilateral relationship then you may resort to other means but you have not to deny that type of a relationship for us for a very long time but you know the the under view there and the callender belief in pakistan. as afghanistan is a weakest it it's it's a county which is susceptible to domination to manipulation and nato is temporary it's not a constant it's a valuable it is have today i am it will go out and we asked the most populous neighbor of afghanistan can read dominated so what dr spock astronomy policy

towards us is she to get each she era games and she. you know stubbornness and. frankly being a stack and twentieth nineteenth century way of thinking politics it is far far away from civility. civilized to man who man relationship if they do practice of allies who man relationship i'm not sure there is anything in afghanistan to dictate as hurt pakistanis or be against them but they've c.-s. week this sit well notable easy to dominate so therefore they continue to pursue these these odd policies former afghan president hamid karzai told me that pakistan supports insurgents in afghanistan because kabul is friendly with

delhi. guy sent just a proxy battlefield for the rivalry between india and pakistan how does that afghan war influence it. well i do not necessarily go the logic of farmer president when it comes to comes to the taliban if you study president former president karzai policies to the whole scenario he never had a come system policy he was fluctuating even every month in regards to the situation and we think he has spoiled some of the best opportunities we had in this county to consulate state power unify the nation and defeat defeat terrorism the only difference is that india is backing the afghan a state and india is openly supporting afghanistan and economic development and it's providing all of the legitimate assistance stuff security forces.

india is not into put ovide ing aid for any non a state actor in my county so we should not say pakistanis are out of there because india is here pakistan was here when india was not here so we are also saying to the pakistanis if you want to reach parity and gain parity with india but les according to this kidnapped india is investing in education you can do the same india is investing in our security forces you can do the same india is investing in today and you can do the same you know pakistan is like a very angry bully and a stiddy to come out come pete with that talented boy of the same mr deeds so therefore their solution far far far the. feeling often for your a t is to punch everyone rising that's not that's not a good way to behave mr salih thank you very much for this interview we were

talking to. former head of afghan intelligence about. situation in afghanistan and whether it's going to improve any time soon that's it for us this edition of so think i'll see you next time. time buddy e-mail bag of the entire you might even want to get it. but i think. that again that i mean by him in montana. the morning of the.

mood in the mood to adopt him will you may believe this had been made you can see so if you want. to name know by other natural again that he made was about to go to a large city because the. patient is fulfilling homeschools local cable you don't take tolls. the russians are coming for well over the last year and this is the message western audiences have been served up twenty four seventh's what is behind this hysteria what does this message aim to achieve always russia is supposed to react importantly are we facing a possible conflict. why the framed off her

who is writing extensively on environmental issues and social justice issues went to these conferences in puerto rico and her take away was that a bunch of rich people all showed up and this is a danger to the local economy and to the local fabric of society so the first thing that strikes me is that lefties like they only feel they have a monopoly on good intentions which i'm not sure where that comes from.

at least seventeen people have been killed and over a thousand injured as israeli soldiers use life bullets tear gas on drones in clashes with palestinians on the gaza border it's another thing as you eat these are very young kitty candy maybe the ten year old and he lets out a close to the fans. russia takes action to expel foreign diplomats in a tit for tat measure as the rally over the script poisoning escalates. and german authorities are able to deport sixty five thousand illegal migrants as the asylum seekers don't have valid id papers.