for him to come out now and say oops i'm sorry i went and it myself we actually haven't got any proof because and of course he would have to resign in the government too so i think it's very important what happens i think the opposition jeremy corbyn was right at the very start to be skeptical about this and to ask for evidence he they are fortunately allowed himself to be bullied to go on the back foot and then to kind of take a more russian line wrong when we had the evidence i think i recall we now is going to great opportunity and labor to make capital out of this and to say that what's happened is the government presented something as a matter of fact which wasn't fact and about when we really went back to the iraqi government the story again and as you say. it's no proof that it isn't russia but president putin he wanted to kill sir and i scribble had plenty of time to do so when would you want to do this just before three months before two days later why on earth would you want to do at this particular time the timing is very very important i think what we now need to hold the government to account for what

they've done and the media the media made it absolutely crucial role in all of this i've lost track of the number of articles i've read in the last few weeks the british press saying you know evil. trying to poison people on the streets of britain our calling it is we should take the world cup away from russia we should do this and that so i think a lot of people on their face and i think it's up now for the opposition to hong government properly to account and in fact not be holding the journalists to account to propagate this fake news really. and just falling before we let you go get an update from our correspondent i'm just reading the stories it's breaking now and it was the head of porton down the britain's military research center that he actually refused to comment on whether the lab itself had produced or maintained stocks of this nerve agent i mean i can't read too much into that but it's a strange one is that we clarify a lot if the chief of portadown just came and said look we've never sent. size this

this chemical it answers a lot of questions. to be sure. to realize that down to identify as they would have to have some substances that are some examples of not much of themselves. so in other words how on earth without that would they know it was not a joke so it's and i think a refusal to answer that question he's quite revealing. clearly. down you know. that's why they identify as not me jock and that raises other questions such as could possibly some stock of missing smuggling going on concerned most cripple i've been involved directly or indirectly with this and of course portadown as we know is about seven miles down the road where the poisoning took place i think it is highly significant surely but what the government chemical weapons or tree literally down the road from where this incident took place so there's a lot of questions here to be asked if this really along with the media and the political class in the last three weeks in print it's been quite hysterical it's

been a witch hunt and i think now the down come out and said we can't do this with russia hopefully now we're going to get people going to actually not apologize but actually to get more sanity involved in this debate just just to add to that i should say that the head of porton down said that there's no way is the quote that this could have come from us or left the four walls of our facility but then wouldn't comment on whether they'd actually synthesize the notes in the new themselves. ok all right there is all there appreciate your time journalist broadcast clarke is my guest let's go back to our correspondent in london understood. joins me on the line the story just breaking i don't anticipate we've had an immediate response from the u.k. government but it sounds like this could be a very significant turn in the story. certainly neal i you know the story in itself is quite extraordinary given that what it generated was one of the biggest diplomatic rouse we've seen unravel between the u.k.

and russia in the years and yet here we are month a month after the poisoning of sergei script paul and his daughter unraveled there is still no proof coming from the u.k. on this massive scandal because here we are we have the leading scientific defensible not only did the scientists here in britain not find proof that the nerve agent used came from russia but they were not able to identify the source the precise source or any country that it might have come from and given the seriousness of the measures that we saw come from the u.k. following the governments here in britain alleging that it's highly likely that russia was behind the poisoning then they were saying that it could only have been russia and then it unraveled into if there's nobody else it could have been yet moscow was saying over and over again that they would like to see proof that they would like to see evidence that they would like to see scientific back up to the

claims being made here in westminster and those have not yet unraveled but in socks the opposite has happened with now these leading scientists in this country saying that they were not able to find any proof and any kind of source of where the military grave nerve agent that everybody has been talking about had come from but this you know didn't stop the british government from the very dead let's now go to this quick clip. the government has concluded that it is highly likely that russia was responsible for the act against segue into the script so how likely is it the twenty eighteen alexion is going to be compromised by russia it's hardly likely that they will be doing something we just don't know how much and when whether. in the high confidence assessment that was released this past october the intelligence community made very clear that this was activity directed by the highest levels of

the russian government. what russia was doing when it khan comes to slide wolf and not only that into ferrets not proven in the american presidential campaign probably in the referendum last year we did have the evidence for that. the conclusion that the russian state was probably involved in the merger with mr litvinenko is deeply disturbing. it's highly likely that russia was responsible russia culpable culpable culpable for the attempted. escape is culpable our quarrel is with putin is criminal and we think overwhelmingly you're likely to do it was his decision ok we've heard that once who it was interest second time let's get a fresh perspective now from our course but i'm very. politically this is this

story is dynamite isn't it i mean whoever is proven to have got this wrong it's way beyond just just korea is we talk exemptions and who knows what would come beyond that the way things are headed so this is what at this point i think it's gone too far with hundreds of diplomats expelled on both sides even if they're wrong i doubt you know anybody will be rolling back what has happened but russia has from the onset denied absolutely denied any role in this attack they sufficient said you know what are we stupid. to use a substance that was has been tied to russia that has you know that has all but is all but synonymous with the soviet union nuvi talk even the name gives it away. but largely a putin himself commented that for the first time on the day he won reelection in

russia i was there and you're a news journalist i believe i asked him please you know give us and give us a comment on this and he said there's nothing to comment about we had absolutely nothing to do with this and the main evidence is you know if we had wanted him dead sygate square power m i six agent former double agent. that was that was arrested and sentenced in russia for espionage if we had wanted him dead he'd be dead that was blood and we have putin said that was very direct so russia has said that you know the longer you go cold shouldering us because britain has. hasn't shed any information with russia not about the substance thought about the investigation not about any assumptions that there they might have made there has been absolutely no communication with russia other than. saying that you know you have a few days to explain your role and to give us this or that information and russia

has reacted you know by saying that well if you want to play this way then by all means but we we you won't get any help from us if you behave like this and they actually forwarded forward in the number of questions for the u.p.c. w. organization for prohibition of chemical weapons which is now involved in the investigation. of course. there has been as of yet no response but the u.p.c. w. has promised to respond to a number of russian questions about the substance about the how it is being investigated what the british gave the w. today so we expect some answers

today just just to remind everyone russia is a member of the c.w. member of the executive committee and the wood that we things work in the u.p.c. w. is there are twenty odd labs around the world the members of this organization if something happens if there's a chemical attack if the c.w. needs to analyze something they send samples of this substance to various the boy tori's and everybody you know takes part in these investigations what has happened so far is that russia has not been involved in any part of this investigation and that has irked the russians especially considering that they deny absolutely any role in all of this they say it is a provocation there's even been hints that britain may have staged this itself to be at the forefront of this anti russian hysteria that russian officials say is

predominant in the public west and western media so russia says if you want our corporation you're going to have to cooperate with us which he is something we haven't seen from the british it was from from the onset a few days after this happened i couldn't that russia did this much that you have to nation but their response has demonstrated complete disdain for the gravity of these events. they provided no credible explanation that they could suggest they just control of the agent no explanation as to how this agent came to be used in the united kingdom no explanation as to why russia has an undeclared chemical weapons program in contravention of international law. so a lot of assumptions there a lot of accusations but absolutely no dialogue and i'm not one hundred percent

sure to raise a mayor was counting on when she put this ultimatum forward she expect russia to play ball it isn't something vladimir putin is known to do you know but the as i say there's been this freeze that it's much worse than a freeze at this point russia says that we won't cooperate and listen let's you give us information unless you at least talk to us. the other side despite what they said today that they have failed to identify the source of the substances to establish whether this nerve agent was manufactured in russia. because i think this is such a key point you know that the whole premise of the u.k. government or their argument was there was no evidence surrounding the incident itself was not an entire premise of the argument this was only made by russia therefore it's highly likely that was not and it was not the basis of the entire org well that was exactly it in the early days and as i said earlier for them to

identify that is one of the nuvi chalk nerve agents they would have had to have a sample synthesized perhaps procured by other means a sample of nerve or truck so they would have had to have it to be able to be able to identify it so quickly if they had it then obviously there's more than russia. other countries bring great britain the united states we know in american research are published sixty odd varieties formulas. of the know if you talk nerve agents publish them and from what i've heard from what chemists military chemists have told me in russia she would have had to synthesize them to be able to add them to a library of chemicals well if the government said it could only have come from russia and seems rather contradictory that the chemical experts in the u.k. say we can't be sure where it came from if there is only one out there that's a kind of a very strange response to come from the experts which probably tells us more than

is needed many thanks around for in-depth assessment of the situation. now despite up until now there being no evidence presented to back up london's claims as we've been hearing some they were quick to side with the u.k. by expelling russian diplomats nato was no exception it ordered seven russian diplomatic staff to leave its headquarters russia's depth there's minister presented to nato soldiers in his opinion he thinks the script was likely devised to boost military spending. i think this whole script case was concocted to prepare public opinion for the ever increasing amounts of money being spent on the military at present the military budgets of european nato members put together to approximately two hundred seventy billion if they achieve the two percent target that some will come to four hundred billion that would be ten times more than russia's military budget. obviously such whopping amounts of money being spent on the military are liable to be the subject of heated public debate to make sure this

goes down well you need the image of an enemy and a powerful one at that so it's crystal clear that this huge provocation that was carried out by the u.k. was intended to achieve this goal which is to add fuel to the flames of recent phobia which was recently begun to peter out as people are simply got tired of it having expelled russian diplomats nato is soaring off the branch they're sitting on as it were i can't believe they don't realize that in this turbulent time a lack of proper communication between the two powers in europe could potentially bring about very dangerous consequences. if you just joined us you're watching our to international reminder of our breaking news story this hour the head of a british military lab says that it is so far failed to determine the country of origin of the substance that was used to poison former russian agents and his daughter a month ago that despite the u.k. government having already laid the blame firmly at rush's door let's have

a listen. so to be clear your not able at portadown to say where it is from at this stage with their work that we've done thus far we've been able to establish that it's an overture opera from that family we are continuing to work to help to provide additional information that may help us get closer to you know the question that you us but the but we haven't yet been able to do that. our course one is in london as the canadians we and it's a series of speaking with our correspondent here goes the other about this the government said it could only come from russia the chemical experts don't know where it came from this is taking a strange turn. oh yes absolutely neal i mean this is a story that the whole world has been watching now for a whole month and russia was determined the culprit very very quickly virtually very early on with the british government saying it's highly likely it's behind all

of this the media of course not just here in the u.k. went crazy about this story yet another spy yet another time russia is being accused of something but as we have been seeing evidence and proof of what exactly happened have been really really thin on the ground and now with these latest developments it's going to be extremely interesting to see how exactly westminster reacts to these announcements from porton down which is a leading british scientific defense aboard torie who have now said that they have not only not been able to prove that the nerve agent used in this attack came from russia but they have not been able to determine any source of where it could have come from and this is of course a major development in the story given what kind of repercussions followed and what kind of diplomatic measures were taken by the u.k. and other countries in the european union of course what we have seen throughout this last month is the unraveling of the biggest diplomatic scandal between russia

and the u.k. that we have seen in years of course with moscow saying can you please provide us with some proof given we are also a member of the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons which had flown into the u.k. to try to research exactly what unravelled moscow has been saying we want to see answers or evidence to what you find and we want to be kept in the loop and none of this happened except very very strict language was used here in westminster from the very beginning let's take a look. it's highly unlikely that russia was responsible we do hold russia koku culpable culpable for the attempt to. escape all calling. you likely to do well a sense. russia's culpability was talked about and was all the rage here in london for so long it's going to be interesting to see whether there is really even any kind of reaction to this announcement from scientists here in britain because of

course while russia has been in the demanding answers to this scandal to be provided that has not materialized and said what we have seen is a very in-depth hysteric coverage of this case even in the days today when we have we're seeing headlines about small details that nobody knows if they're true or not discussed and deciphered by the press here in the u.k. including talk about things such as whether or not he could and his daughter could have been poisoned via a one pound bag of porridge or baquie to that a friend of yulia screwball might have sent to the u.k. so this story has been the biggest one and a massive anti russia story here in britain and yet with these latest revelations that are very considerable and to be very important to see what happens next and especially given with the fact that officials from the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons the o.p.c. w. have been working here in the u.k.

as well so it's interesting to see what they will be saying on this as well as of course we know that the daughter of sergei screwball yulia has regained it seems better health conditions so what people are going to be watching is what she has to say and in this massive massive story that seem to have found the culprit before any evidence had been presented. just quickly on the political front with i'm sure we all remember very clearly when the first announcements were made by trees of the house of commons. all of the things pretty much ball warm gathered around to support almost cry for action against russia ball the leader of the opposition gerry because when he was roundly hounded for for calling for donal logue with russia presumably if things continue in the way the going this could be a huge opportunity for him to now criticize the government for the for the

direction they've taken. well there are certainly that did unravel we saw a tsunami of allegations and accusations being made in parliament against rush hour with m.p.'s overwhelmingly supporting the idea that theresa may have presented that russia was the culprit in all of this and indeed when jeremy corbyn the leader of the opposition had said maybe we should keep dialogue going maybe we should wait for some evidence he was seen as the absolute enemy here in westminster so it's seems to be a bit too early to be able to tell whether or not he's going to be jumping back into this whole story but it seems that it's much more important what to recent may and those who had been accusing russia are going to be saying because they were the ones who took the lead in this unravel new raveling snowball of a diplomatic scandal of accusations and measures and getting other countries to participate in implementing measures against moscow so that's where the next step

should come from it seems many thanks from london. let's go back to our correspondent in the studio. just to summarize for everybody choosing in the kind of the official comments that we've seen during the story coming from the u.k. so you start it well it's highly likely it was russia to reason. it was almost certainly putin behind this decision boris johnson we don't know where the chemicals came from portadown what is going on oh the other thing i said is that. he was asked whether it could have been britain's stocks whether britain was also manufacturing position of movie talk of the new virtual group of nerve agents he refused to answer if they didn't have any stocks they would produce synthesizing any simple new would be fired but as things start you now have plenty of fodder the speculation suddenly turns out that it is highly likely at this point the to grow.

also has stocks of nerve. also said that you know at the same time he refuted any claim i refuted any assumption that it could have been britain's stocks that were used against square power that any. britons presumable never talk nerve agent had made it out of the oratory and that had been used in this in this affair for the sake of fairness. it is worth mentioning that back in the ninety's scientists the chemist deed smuggle out some quantity of movie talk which he apparently sold in the black market investigators there was a huge investigation that substance that he smuggled out and sold on was later used to kill a banker a russian bank in one thousand nine hundred eight i believe but there is. the belief that he may have sold more sold more. there was certainly

a lot of information about that in the press nevertheless the russians say our stocks are entirely destroyed they say that we had we haven't manufactured any. weaponized any and that we are in full. accordance with the c.w. compliance of accordance but a lover of the russian foreign minister said that. so long as this cold shoulder from britain continued from russia but eventually the way the investigation is going now and presumably does also have an over talk that other countries may have synthesised the end produced. suddenly knowing this this investigation is veering off and says that the british are eventually going to have to talk to russia. you will not be possible to get away from answering the questions. obvious nonsense

and what else is obvious is now british colleagues have conceived fast with this game and you will shoot. well there you go so the russians are holding on there's been a lot of damage that i believe is in the near future reparable you know the expulsion of hundreds two hundred odd diplomats from russia from russian diplomats from other countries great britain for example expelled twenty three russian diplomats russian replied to for tat and expelled twenty three also british diplomats but they went further they have also asked the british diplomatic mission and russia to reduce its star members by another fifty or there abouts because they want parity for the same of number of russian diplomats to be in great britain and great english diplomats to be in in russia that is also punitive because russia

believes it was great britain that whole and russian histeria this campaign that led to the expulsion of russian diplomats from two dozen or so countries countries in the world so this is this was also punitive and. if nothing else to save face i'm sure that nobody will be showing any apologies. the u.k. government concluded that it was highly likely that russia was responsible for this reckless we haven't seen anything but highly likely as of yet we have concluded that mr scruby pro and his dogs were poisoned with a nazi shock a military grade nerve agent of a type developed by russia to britain if britain is so confident that it was not a truck gassed the now means they have the chemical formula that samples and the ability to produce it the united states believes that russia is responsible for the attack on two people and the united kingdom using a military grade nerve agent. we demand the material proof be provided before

making any accusations against us in this high profile case. we requested the russian government to provide an explanation by the end of tuesday the thirteenth of march on how this russian produced nerve agent could have been deployed in souls . they provided no credible explanation goodwood we are ready for open and constructive cooperation within the framework of the organization for the prohibition of chemical weapons if we don't speak the language well tonight and we won't allow anyone to speak to us this way. ok let's get some more analysis and joined a lot of it for pentagon senior security policy analysts michael maloof joins me. breaking news michael so this news just in i don't know how much time you had to get across this we've seen accusations of measures thrown against russia and it seemed like the accusations were fundamentally based on a belief that it could only be russian manufactured this this

military grade nerve agent and now it seems like that that argument is crumbling with the top chemist. military chemists in the u.k. saying they don't know where it came from what does that leave this. well that at least that even more questionable as to the origin as you point out and it's coming from porton down which is one of the more rain out chemical weapons analysts analytical love still is in great britain and what i thought was intriguing was that they said they couldn't determine the origin but they knew it wasn't definitely there's so what. how do they know that if they can't determine what the origin is i think that this that raises the larger question a larger issue of getting experts together to to look at this both from russia and from and from the. chemical weapons. let that oversees this this type of activity to make that determination but so far the west

says as turn that request down and which indicates to me that they have something to hide and i think that if we're going to have transparency on this to get to the bottom of it i think the experts both from russia and the west need to get together and come to a resolution the fact that porton down which is the u.k. government so they could not determine the origin i think is a very very significant and it begs the question even further as to.