i've been saving these headlines for him and also in light of the tragedy out in mountain view. near san francisco and you tube and the sort of craziness going on around social media where we've been you know they've become basically stuck in the middle of this hyper partisan crazy sort of times where and where both sides the red team in the blue team the democrats and the republicans are all trying to deed monetized de platform the other side and make sure they have no voice no. potential to reach an audience so however now that we're a little bit away from that i want to talk about this headline here. regarding the social media and what we're seeing political arguments inside google have gotten so bad that one hundred employees formed a group to stop cyber bullying about one hundred google us employees concerned about cyber bullying inside the company have organized into

a group proposing new policies for conduct at the unit of alphabet they said that they want to stop inflammatory conversations and personal attacks on the forums to see punishment for individuals who regularly do rail discussions early conversations the group also wants google to list rights and responsibilities for accusers defendants managers investigators and human resources case the group also desires greater protection for employees targeted by what its views as insincere complaints to human resources used by bullying tactics and goading so i mean it's quite interesting that they also point out that there were insincere complaints to human resources this this weird thing that's going on all sides where they want to destroy the economic access for the other side based on political opinion like we've been it somehow there's no there's no surprise discovery allowed there's no opinion discovery you know in the markets you have price discovery of buyers and sellers and me here ideas are supposed to meet in the marketplace and you're

supposed to discuss it and have debate and decide what's the best course of action moving forward away but both sides have somehow we've lost any ability to have any conversation so the troll wars are happening in the. company even inside the company james the more you know him he was a conservative he said that he was fired because he was conservative and supported trump he sued alfabet he said that he was not allowed to speak his mind because everybody there is liberal so this is this kind of triggered the war going on inside the company there's apparently an internal slacker some sort of form board where they're fighting these people are saying horrible things about each other i don't know the. full extent of the conversation like the phrase they're making in this in the sera complaints to human resources so that tells me that employees are trolling human resources by saying oh such and such an employee is acting in a way that is illegal or against the rules or bobbled laws like so that or they're

at war there's an internal war going inside the company so therefore we can expect that the people who use the product outside of the company would be involved in a similar war i mean if you have a company and inside the company their product the people are getting sick on the product let's say your are you know a food processor and your employees are getting sick of food but you're selling the food to the public as well i mean what if you why don't you take your own each your own dog food is a is a monster that you hear in corporate suites all the time you know their own product is disease ng is not a war is a disease within the own their own corporate culture is disintegrating how can the product be allowed to go outside well my theory looking at this and looking at the past year or so in the united states is this is what a corporate citizen looks like we are not citizens of a democracy anymore in the past one would appeal to your mayor or your local

officials or your state officials or your elected national legislators to change things or or you know if if you wanted to end discrimination against african-americans like the civil rights movement they didn't go appealing to some corporation to monetise in d. platform that person but you see that we've slowly evolved into sort of you know neal feudal times is you know you're under whatever corporation and you pledge allegiance to that corporation or your only recourse to basically change the world in the environment around you is to appeal to some corporation exxon please stop polluting google please let me up load a video facebook play. let me communicate with my family like it's or the opposite is like facebook i don't like that person's message take them off facebook and and don't allow them to speak to anybody. fox news i don't like what that person your

presenter said so i'm going to contact everybody who ever advertises on your channel going to take them down so there's our discourse this is like corporate discourse now we'll we only we can only appeal to corporate masters or those corporate masters and crucially are ruled by algorithms exactly on wall street they rely on algorithms trading on the works dr strange is run by algorithms so the algorithms guy the product of google also guides the actions of the employees within a google and they can stop the algorithm isn't this just like fantasia the disney movie with mickey mouse worry goes to war with the dancing broom and he tries to chop it down it creates more dancing brooms and it creates a flood within the wizard's palace i mean these are algorithms that are out of fricken control and employees within the company can't stop them there who are driven by algorithm who's in charge the algorithm or the head of google who's running the show now well in the case of facebook some people say it's mark zuckerberg is a robot so they are uncertain whether or not he's actually

a real human well he was obviously bruce the bug is some kind of mutant algorithm that god is the d.n.a. so now so i want to turn to facebook in this next headline and cambridge analytic because you know they gathered all the data but the cambridge analytic is getting a lot of the brunt of the i are and the outrage in the media of course but of if there's one cambridge analytic if there's one cockroach you know there's thousands of other companies also collecting the same data and there's a harvard business queen the phrase surveillance cathles and that's what we now live in a surveillance capitalism but back to what they. a is in the wake of the cambridge analytical scandal news articles and commentators have focused on what facebook knows about us a lot it turns out it collects data from our posts our likes or photos things we type and delete without posting the things we do while not on facebook and even when we're offline it buys data about us from others and it can infer even more our

sexual orientation political beliefs relationship status drug use and other personality traits even if we didn't take the personality test that cambridge and let it be developed so you know these surveillance capitalist corporations have been collecting a lot of data that we have mostly provided for free because we're getting a free service of course many especially in the cypherpunk community have warned that there's no such thing as free lunch if you're giving them your data for free of course you are the product also calling a crocodile's surveillance capitalists right. there are quiet in the water and waiting and waiting and waiting and then they strike so all the algorithms are in place and these corporate giannis are in place for an opportunity to make us of a parent in the predatory early jump in rip to shreds the prey in this case

the unsuspecting consumer or voter or citizen who's now being torn to shreds by the crocodile capitalist well they point out this harvard business thing points out that but for every article about facebook's creepy stalker behavior thousands of other companies are breathing a collective sigh of relief that it's facebook and not them in the spotlight because while facebook is one of the biggest players in the space there are thousands of other companies a spy on and many people aid us for profit it's called surveillance capitalism there are two thousand five hundred to four thousand data brokers in the united states alone equifax is one of them of course they basically. our private company gives a social credit score to you they collect data on you and tell banks whether or not you're trustworthy and whether or not you should be given access to any credit that's one well known company but surveillance capitalism takes this one step

further companies like facebook and google offer you free services and exchange for our data google surveillance isn't in the news but it is starting li intimate we never lie to our search engines our interest and curiosities hopes and fears desires and sexual proclivities are all collected and saved add to that the websites we visit the google tracks to his advertising network our g. mail accounts our movements via google maps and what it can collect from our smartphones so what's the difference between facebook and this new super gonorrhea those completely resistant to all antibiotics the are just no cure for facebook and yes there is this called delete your account tell your child to go on the platform members of the surveillance capitalism infiltrate every single orifice of our interaction with each other and our interaction with the cyberspace this. is called the dewey decimal system it's called going to the library and researching in that space again is getting rid of your smartphone but i mean that's not really probably

in the sixty's they burn the draft cards so you're saying went on to burn our smartphone. free from well you have a list company the surveillance plane well you have to do it environmentally sound way because there's a lot of toxic stuff in there so you can't just burn your phone no because it might be quite dangerous but here i do want to say you know my google searches if anybody has a blog platform or tries to tweet funny photos like the searches i do to come up you know find some images i think the surveillance catalysed. might have a hard time selling to me because i've put in some freaky search warrants for ninety nine percent of my searches or for max kaiser so. it's all very self reflective of narcissistic you can come spy on me all day long and you learn all about me learning about myself. ok well surveillance capitalism drives much of the internet is behind most of the free services and many of the paid ones as

well is goal is psychological manipulation in the form of personalized advertising to persuade you to buy something or do something like vote for a candidate and while that individual ised profile driven manipulation exposed by cambridge analytical feels a bore and it's really no different from what every company wants in the end this is why all your personal information is collected and this is why it is so valuable companies that can understand it can use it against you it's gaslighting this gaslighting on an industrial scale they attack the subconscious mind they get you confuse and then they rip you off it should be illegal it's anti-constitutional it's crocodile capitalism it's fricken super gonorrhea from mark zuckerberg is no cure for it no and and whatever it's called answer i. want some sense a free speech anti-censorship a century to you i myself have not been on facebook for the last three months simply because we were in miami i took a photo in which was

a native american artwork behind us and it is not breast but it's like breast like figures a looks like there are some breasts in there and they won't let me back onto the platform unless i go through every single photo i have ever upload in the past ten years and confirm that each photo is not there is no pornographic imagery in it it's like you know the punk revolution they kick back against all the spec of the day all right well so go away come back after the break i will be blowing your mind . with this manufactured consensus and stick to the public will. when the woman closest to protect themselves. with the famous merry go round the sun me the one percent.

we can all middle of the room sit. around in the real news room oh. this is says holland kentucky. we're all in this movie the voices of people we're going to st families. a co money city with almost no coal mines left. the jobs are gone all the polarizer should add that i was alive to see these people the survivors of a world disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that if anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in the million years i would see that and it's happened this happens.

to everybody. welcome back to the kaiser report imax keyser time now to turn to bill ozment of minds dot com bill welcome thanks all right so the mines m i n d s dot com it's a all right. this is going to be an interesting kind of look at social media in

this day and age of hash tag delete facebook you provided an alternative with mines dot com tell us about your platform what is it what did you build it started in twenty eleven so going on for a while just trying to build something that can actually scale but so it's different in that it's open source and you can inspect the code cheroot free software movement which i know you all covered with stallman and everything essential like the next major networks have to be where encrypted so we don't take even personal information we don't require it. you are in crypto for your activity on the app this is sort of an emerging trend that people need to be rewarded for their energy on networks ok so started twenty levon and it's following the free open source software movement if you will foss which goes back to the richard stallman it is proselytizing of this is being necessity to encourage best practices on the internet and now we are in the wake of the huge facebook meltdown

the revelation that all kinds of data has been sold so mines dot com number one you're monetizing folks for their activity which they don't do on these other social platforms so facebook make a lot of money and other people's work right so you're compensating people for their work yeah and in addition no ridiculous algorithms that limit people's reach so our news feeds one hundred percent organic so you always reach all of your followers i mean it's insane that they thought that that was ok at all to do and then additionally you can say you earn the tokens and then you can boost your content for more views with the tokens that you are and so we're actually trying to get people's voices heard so that. it's kind of a feedback loop so you can take your tokens a yearning and invest in yourself you know speak to get a wider reach thinking that you can actually build a better presence and so how's how's how's the growth you mentioned your scaling of project how is the growth doing and how's a growth been in the wake of this facebook scandal it's pretty good i mean we're on

a million users and you know daily doubled i mean all of these things whether it's censorship or surveillance or algorithms or d. monetization this just causes people to seek out new platforms right so the privacy is maintained because you don't actually keep the data or you don't you don't require people to identify themselves at all you can be totally anonymous if you want so you cause there's of a brooklyn company. so actually a connecticut based company but we have an office and ok and so who's a competitor in this space if anybody i mean i consider everyone who's open source and working with crypto to be sort of a collaborator honestly there's there's sort of a movement of networks that are on the same page so yeah you could call them competitors but you know i consider the proprietary. surveillance networks to be the real the real competitors so you know like i would say. diaspora mastodon steam

it these ca types of places are at least involved in the right direction but i mean for instance with steam and i do have some criticisms on sort of the well economy going on within it but i still think that they're up to good stuff generally right so all of you guys together in your space are compared to the let's say the market capitalization of facebook and others being in the excess of a trillion dollars if you can just even get ten or twenty percent of the market you would all your entire sector would grow enormously so you all stand to do very very well if you can move the current population of folks who are accepting the abuse they get at facebook to not accept the abuse anymore on facebook and to go to these other platforms yeah we're sort of there's also all this regulatory stuff going on with crypto and token rewards right now in the u.s.

especially so we're actually on test now right now just making sure everything works the all the tokens work you can boost with them but we're drilling trying to prove the utility model and make sure that you know we don't get that he right there is now some heat from the regulators about it and then you mentioned utility token is a carve out of a specific type of token and you guys been around for a while and there is a clear case for util as a utility token if you. well so how was i going the diary getting do they have to spend now allocate dollars to legal and is that a drag in terms of scaling yeah yeah but i mean you know it should be done right because there are a lot of scam i.c.'s out there so you know but it needs to be balanced you can't just call everything a security that's ridiculous so you know the f.c.c. exists for a reason but they need to also be conscious of you know the market ok so the token on your site is what's a call to mind stuff and and it was our nicely oh no right well we're so worrying

into tokens here but we're running on tests now too we're so essentially doing air drops every day of tokens for people's contributions so based on your percent contribution to community and engagement that's the percent daily rewards you get of our pool ok so that is like steam and to a degree because there's a certain amount of steam it that's kind of released on a regular basis and then people are creating content for some of that steam there is more allocated in regards to voting power of an individual so i think the more steam you have more voting power you have that's not really how it works on mine some minds based on where the raw metrics and engagement you're getting from the whole community everyone's vote is more equal on our system ok so who handles the economics another woman chief economy officer we are definitely talking with big crypto consultants to figure out all the token economics we should have a conversation about and that's what we're doing in the sense that we haven't fully decided on the specific token economic as we want to be as fair as possible we're

trying to get all the community feedback to make sure that like the supply and everything is done perfectly remember yanis varoufakis the finance minister for greece was before i was doing that role was being a financial consultant for a crypt type of platform that was a camera with a name maybe my so associate producer whispered in my ear some point but otherwise they were bringing in a heavyweight economist to china figure out it. actually and all the major economists like nouriel roubini and paul krugman and the heavyweights the nobel prize winners have all uniformly said that crypto and tokens are garbage so i mean how do you get a fine heavyweight the space that's going to decide for myself or who's going to come in and work this all out i mean this whole field of token nomics is like a rapidly emerging field so i think that there are not really old school experts on

it but there are people who have good insights on what sort of micro economy would would look like and how to make a healthy so you are obviously very concerned about leaking data to outside vendors what do you know me ask you this there was this whole scandal recently apparently some you tube user. one over to you to google and the stars you know people you know because they were on she wasn't happy about her treatment on the platform what with cal what is your reaction as you're in that business what was your first reaction when you think yeah it's really scary i mean it's such a sad situation i think that so she was upset about being discriminated against she was upset about her view count going down the you know these types of issues about being censored i think that what we're doing actually research on this right now that censorship and abuse by these platforms actually amplifies violence and extremism so while twitter facebook google you tube think that ok we're going to

ban all the speech we're going to monetize we're going to push it off of our platforms ok in the short term that makes you have your nice little safe happy place but you're actually pushing the problem on other places in your further causing radicalization to occur so you know i think a more mature perspective on it is to you know i take the darrell davis approach this guy who converted like hundreds of members of the k.k.k. an african-american man who befriended them had an honest conversation tried to have the dialogue in. they all turn over the ropes like that's the type of mentality that when you patrols i remember that story is fascinating yeah but this is a you brought up a very interesting point here so you're saying that an attempt to censor merely pushes the problem to other platforms and it metastasizes and actually creates a trend toward violence more violence yeah there's actually a number of studies that prove this and you know it's like when you have

you know you push down on one area and it just pops up on another i forget my medal toothpaste tube where you write something i'm out of metaphor suddenly oh no but so so there's the problem is one of free speech so in america that was supposed to be built on free speech where do we go wrong i mean i think we're still ok i think america actually has a right the platforms are starting to not align with that policy. right oh you feel you're saying that these corporations are not. healing closely to the tenants of the u.s. constitution yeah and it's an understandable kneejerk reaction i mean you have a lot of the speech is awful and disgusting and there's violence i mean it's gross but how do you materially and responsibly deal with that i think that it's just too short sighted that you're in the space you're obviously a techno dude let me ask you about four chan ok four chan is the collective of me

spewers and they capture the geist in a way that no one else seems to be able to figure out the pepe the frog thing. clinton in st. what what are they doing exactly the other is they are they're tapping into the mass psychology in some way that is a true training the politics of america and a huge way and you know you're in that business and you when you see four chan you see what's coming out of four chan what is what's your thought about it because it seems like they're doing they're performing a vital service because they're distilling all the trolls they're coming up with a distilled troll and then everyone else to say you know that it's not in a kind of mass lunacy it's this mean and this mean is now we're dealing with you know so we can organize against it i've realized it's a rambling question but no i understand it's. there's nuance in extremely dark

humor involved in these memes and so i think that the understanding context and yet there are people who understand the concept that's what we got on that otherwise people go shoot people yeah it's on bill thanks for being on the kaiser report. well that's going to do it for this edition of the kaiser report with me max kaiser stacy her i'd like to thank our guest bill ottman of mines dot com if you want to catch us on social media it's on twitter a kaiser report please don't shoot for mines. you know will soon be on my. bill i said goodbye already and here you are. pumping mines to vall farah it's the next time. but.

there's a strong pressure behind a security company that's by the pentagon and by the media on don't donald trump to do something about some you could probably at some stage she might give into this pressure but i don't think it is his intention what i consider more likely down another u.s. military attack on syria is that united states policy bill deep to recognize any effort to buy the russians to texans iranians to find a political solution. when you don't. see the. what they did they could put it. to me through only ten suspects it. may. lead to the. said. cement claim to know. that the.

alex you speak french. that said they will send elf that's a new imposable and it is talk of this busy cut up to take. the swarms of them so moving. to good use who was before. much of those who heard it's a preview of the. new movie. we will. move . with. actually you look beautiful the minutes and the good looking good. muslim also there's also a good view of the good pool of. voters also look look the same you

local small it's good to go. to starts to. get to me to tell you the little one must instill a bit is it. just ashton understand just you know the mashed old church or stop the president and please introduce washington to. the view of producers to talk this way to snap them up on your because those are the girls who are serious supporters to your machine station shouldn't be you should the door for one was delayed because of.

the u.s. defense secretary admits his country has no concrete evidence there was a chemical attack in the syrian city of duma but might strike nonetheless preemptively to quote defend american troops there. meantime other developments tonight after a lengthy cabinet meeting trees are made doesn't shed much light on london's course of action on syria the british prime minister did stress there would need to coordinate with its allies other developments on top of that the german chancellor today though giving a firm no to military strikes against damascus. and even to end its chicken and side we should just on my. own community of us not to unleash the tail you can. also coming up to the u.k. foreign secretary is in no doubt quote it was russia behind the scrupled poisoning .