of being shot wounded taken prisoner but noone first signed up to be poisoned by our own people that was nuclear biological and chemical products the said do not own the truck tires all types of styrofoam all polystyrene batteries trucks there was a complete denial i think at all levels of government that there was any connection between burn pits and what these brave soldiers were suffering from to compensate every soldier marine airman and sailor that was on the ground that are complaining about illnesses from their exposure from the burn pits would really literally send a be a growth and they don't want to pay it so the waiting in the decades a lot of those soldiers will die in time and they won't have to pay and. call for help and get the middle finger to the movies tomorrow or the. delayed and i hope you don't.

want to sophie shevardnadze and those days we always see spy games on the big screen but is it any more quieter now on the secret front than cheering the cold war well today i talked to the former czechoslovak spy who has successfully penetrated the cia itself. into a trade seem the most powerful spy agency in the world living a double life or here's knowing that a wrong step could cost you everything but risking it all to get the job done what is it like constantly walking on the edge as a double agent where is the fine line between patriotism and betrayal of those who trust you and is old for. they're in the war of spies. kalka hare welcome to

the show it's really great to have you with us so in what sense was the cia different from the soviet bloc intelligence well it latter and what was worse it was very different. i would say. first of all my experience with the soviet intelligence is that they were better educated better qualified they spoke languages much better because. the k.g.b. . intelligence service hired the university graduates i mean people is a must a civil or higher while the cia hired people who is a bachelor's degree and then they trained them and the gave them courses and so forth the comparison. really in favor of the soviet intelligence

so how did you feel about other agents who were like you double agents pretending to be one side working for another two years is a mess traders or do you view them as simply professionals who are doing their job well also you know there are different kinds of people there are people who really betray their country for money and is there really double agents in the first sense of the bird i don't consider my sort of the really a double agent. is so. how do i feel about him i don't like traitors on any side i understand he even has soviet intelligence needed i mean agents who are betraying knighted states or england and so forth but those people do it for money i didn't hear of any one. for soviet intelligence only for well except for kim philby or so the conviction.

certainly did it for money so tell me something how does that work in this agency to intelligence agents is just assumed that there are inevitably infiltrated delay take that into account in their work or it does that realisation take them by surprise this is for a cia's concern it did indeed take them by surprise they just couldn't. imagine that somebody could infiltrate them you know go through all the security checks and so forth and you know cia badly and there is still mates people from other countries and particularly from what they call east europe so they couldn't simply for the love of god think that somebody from such a small of them they heard too often to say you know those are three big people

those checks and the russians and so forth but of course you are not like them you are like us you know we are. really offensive. what is realizing that there is a mole in your ranks to turn agents taster panic while around suspicion which on what happens. what happens is indeed panic then in the. late eighty's was given the name of american agents is the soviet union no how many but about eleven or twelve were caught there was absolute panic in the cia they went as far as trying to get in touch with me right try to persuade me. to give them some kind of hint who could that be they even arranged

a meeting with me in munich for that purpose and of course they didn't learn anything from me. surely not but they were panicky so he returned to their intelligence work because the state secret police harassed to the brink you needed them to stop ruining their lives are most of the people recruited into this job like that through pressure fear defense for americans it's mostly a career like and the other. is. certainly nationalists and people who have real thick feelings but i think that's secondary the primary concern is. the pay the career that the kind of certainty they have of employment my experience with soviet the russian side was that they they're more idealistic. they they did it out of their situation and

service for their country i mean that was primary on the first place so in the times of the cold war agents could be recruited on ideological grounds help the global fight for justice equality these days is all of that done just for cash are the days of ideas on. where in there was the day the sofa ideas i am afraid are gone not necessarily in there are about the most definitely invested hurt but even in russia i think they must have problems because you know have consumer society money is very powerful so i think the danger of. having the. interest rate it is much higher i've been. at the time when i was working for the cia the cia realized it was extremely difficult to recruit an agent in the soviet union and that they certainly couldn't operate in

the country is a had practically no patience whatever no it is very different and certainly the new russian incursions is so take this into account so what is like the ultimate lot of aid or for someone to find themselves in the shop is that money is it fair i don't know maybe vanity or a desire of a thrill adrenaline what is. what what what what's what's more. what's more depends on the kind. what kind of a person you are. but miss me it was really a desire to there for public service it was some kind of patriotic patriotic commitment. there are such people in the cia as well but not that many not that many how good was the money in the business back then oh

very bad. intelligence didn't pay me anything get it at all busy exceptional expenses like when he had a meeting somewhere in paris or i don't know they would pay for the running tickets and for the hotel but i didn't get any salad. it's all so and the day in the cia was in. except the it was better than my when i was teaching at college i could make less money than i made in the cia but it wasn't. really too great a minute it was enough but much. more important for an island or a cars i said be careful or is it being brave again it's a matter of what's going on the person you are but. the it's not

that you want to be a james bond daring thinks but when it comes to doing something dangerous you you do it and you find out the know how fearful you are but. it works fine for me and sure i was sometimes afraid of doing something risky but i could live is it but i you know i was careful enough not to be caught and i was caught because i was betrayed. so i know you were offering your superiors to use n.g.o.s as umbrellas for spying activities but they didn't go for it was that for side of your part on your part or is your idea in years now it's yes that how is it done cia. is outsourcing this kind of thing they are doing the job that the cia should be doing itself but.

it seems safer and simpler to to have a non-governmental organization do it for them but but basically it is just an extension of the covert operations succeed it is. it's that didn't exist because you you couldn't. operate sue a non-governmental. organization in the soviet union so that's something which came by the. end of the soviet union was. so are is everyone doing it now all the agencies doing this now using non-governmental organizations as umbrella. yes well they're certainly there are plenty of them in the czech republic plenty of them everywhere. but. i don't think it is so extensive the from the russian side.

and i you know you really don't believe that russia has such a strong interest in really influencing. the political situation in other countries maybe some but certainly not to that extent. the americans all right we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking with carol former czechoslovak spieth a mole who successfully penetrated the cia chairing the cold war talking about the secret world of intelligence services stay with us.

in july twenty second team hunted all set up a freelance journalist watching was on t.v. a militant shelling in syria. so only has sacrificed scotti has established a khaled on such a memorial of lives they will recognize war reporters who often risk their lives for the sake of the truth comes through them to please you can submit to your published works in the video or written form go toward those on t.v. don't come into now. apply for many flips over the years so i know the guy even so i doubt it's. football isn't only about what happens on the pitch to the final school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the superman to just kill you narrowness and spending to get to the twenty million fly a. book it's an experience like nothing else not to because i want to share what i

think of what i know about the beautiful guy but great so what chance with. the base is going to. be. we're back with carol go ahead a former czechoslovak spy the mole who successfully penetrated the cia during the cold war discussing what the life of undercover intelligence agents is like or was like so mr presser. when then as affective in espionage as we get from

movies from wilkes is the image of a seductive texan getting atomic secrets out of you on a lover is bad anywhere close your reality. is thrown it out it may be the israelis are using women in this capacity but otherwise i don't know of anything of that sort. the americans were trying to charge me and my wife. this way but the debts absolved fiction even never even thought it was absolute nonsense i had its top secret clearance and there was no reason whatever into uses this kind of this kind of. offers so this is amazing i think you may now much i simply fixed yes films and books right in real life yes yes yes indeed

yes indeed i really don't think so but yes and. such such. israel is that israel is used when many services how do they use this women yes yes that's well even if they will kidnap somebody or if they want to blow up something so they would send the i don't know car was two women who set up the policeman who is guarding that place and asked him to fix their car and so forth and in the meantime the their. their colleagues climbed the wall and put explosives on the i don't know battle since chemicals or the. radioactive material so ever but. and of course who used it the service that used women and men

in this capacity was east german intelligence service a very very good at it but they knew we didn't do it and i really don't know. anything of that sort to taking place in the soviet intelligence service certainly it did but than on a small scale probably i mean compromising people who are from the diplomatic corps in moscow is despite of thing everybody does that but otherwise not during my time it was just. kind of. sort of james bond style result women so can you finish for his full information for somebody without having access to the classified data at cia me and day or elsewhere do you necessarily have to bring gates was security services in the country you were spying on to get useful information. well is certainly the best way

but. it depends what kind of intelligence you want to acquire you can also pose as a scientist or mollified scientists and get a job with some contractor who is producing is some secret kind of weapon and so forth still you don't have to be necessarily in gauged in the secret service but you have to have clearance in the clearance is issued by the pentagon and here by by the intelligence services the key to. getting information is a clearance. so a bunch of russian sleeper agents were exposed by the united states in two thousand and ten i don't know if you remember that story they all held usually just. so they're like random usual jobs real estate agent car salesman and they live normal monday lives so what kind of intelligence can you get is like a cook or if you're

a travel agent. if you're asleep or you're just getting ready it means that the. couple years you might apply for a job with some kind of. military contractor even if. so what happens to people who wear slippers for years and years i mean they have kids they grow up there one day this kids wake up and they find out they're not even american. their parents aren't who they thought they were. when you were out it were people around you in shock yes. indeed in shock but strangely enough most of them stayed. defend my country they would defend. these two. are in

touch. from the american friends. so can someone like you a spy a double agent ever guess out of the game completely i mean you had a break for some years and you thought you were out and then a letter comes in and bomb and you're reactivated despise ever retire. snow laid out it this is a stuff from films and thrillers from books and the stevie series. no i don't think so it will be both on the use of is certainly i'm out of the business so if someone wants to be completely out that that's a choice and nothing's going to come in a way because i've heard different stories i've heard that one top agents want to

leave the profession or change the profession they're not let go completely well it depends what kind of an agent it is but i believe that if you really want to get out. you know how to do it till you move to a different continent you change identity it's always possible even a result to help oh also the author is mean so is that the only way you want to leave a few minutes so is that the only way few want to leave the agency and they don't want to let you go that you have to change your identity and go to a different continent that's the only way to leave the profession well if you really are there he had access to very sensitive information that's what i would advise. such an agent to do but otherwise i don't think it's really or that. the dangerous or if you want to leave you leave

it in most cases they will let you go you know why because it doesn't make sense for somebody to do something that he doesn't want to do. but our intelligence agency is bench full. yes the cia was certainly vengeful they did try to compromise me and they certainly spread false rumors they tried to . say threat. stories about me to miss their eventual cia was certainly very much one or the f.b.i. i would say more the f.b.i. than the. so do you think city cityscape by this case is something like that a double agent paying for what he did and their russian intel official sat that he was exchanged and sent off to the united kingdom because he was no more of any use to russia so that it wasn't the russians or try to get him. certainly if he was

exchanged that was it. russia is concerned i honestly believe that they had absolutely no interest. at all and furthermore i mean there is a very important point i would like to make. russian intelligence certainly uses. illegals agents so-called you know what the agent is no no cover they use agents that have no diplomatic cover and they are certainly exposed to great dangers and when they are court or arrested the only way to get them back home is to have them exchanged so there is no way that the russian side would endanger this kind of exchange business is so scrip are most definitely wasn't

a victim of any kind of operation or at that from the russian side because that would totally destroy the russian credibility as far as exchanges are concerned and they are dependent on it because they certainly have to get their people back if they get into trouble so the russians are now saying that the british intelligence is hiding scrape os from everyone to saying that could be the case it was they certainly are highly highly the most natural thing would be for at least for his daughter who seems to be in good shape to appear at a press conference or to talk to journalists they certainly are hiding the two of them as much as they can so like you sat script how was of no real value to the russian intelligence why do you think that the british british are so adamant at blaming the russians. if there case. then. there is certainly is some kind of scenario

of. russian operations and. just became a good opportunity i really don't believe that scraper was the thing there was maybe an accident or maybe there was no nothing at all the maybe that this was just made up to have some kind of. some kind of reason to a skull eight and. sentients publishing the now you really don't believe that. anybody from the russian side would. try to cause him harm. to saying that the british will never allow the russians to meet with the script i don't think so why because the whole thing is so suspicious you know you cannot know what he's going to say. maybe scruple himself would not be

willing to do what they ordered him to do he is obviously a traitor he's not a very reliable person. the moral person so even if he agrees to say what they tell him to say he might change his mind when the speaking on camera i don't think they would ever allow him to leave his innocence oh right thing ever thanks very very very much for this really interesting insights into the world over the top spy. mr co-chair where we're talking to carol co-chair former check by mole successfully penetrated the cia during the cold war discussing their role intelligence agents playing global politics well that's it for this edition of surfing car see you next.

we all willingly accepted the risk of being shot wounded taken prisoner but new forced signed up to be friggin poisoned by our own people of seeing stuff that was nuclear biological and chemical products the said do not truck tires all types of styrofoam polystyrene batteries trucks there was a complete denial i think at all levels of government that there was any connection between berm pits and what the spray soldiers were suffering from to compensate every soldier marine airman and sailor that was on the ground that are complaining about illnesses from their exposure from the berm pits would read literally send

a v.a. broke and they don't want to pay it so the wady and decades a lot of those soldiers will die in time and they will have to pay. paul burrell to get the middle finger to the beast and mottled is. delayed and i hope that. you never know what's around the corner never know what was in the pub even to contain beneath that excitement is that now and that's where the adrenaline in much comes from. when the going is a move by definition and the extremes will support. a violent season and it's that almost a schizophrenia. where you can do all these things and behave badly.

they're going to befall a horse of a little. more so full of the last. punishment and infirmed their wall and. in the thought. i would roll or when the fire broke out i really did a poll not going to get. many of these amusing the fifty feet up on the involves it's constantly evolving and. the.

planes of a chemical attack in the syrian city of doom earlier this month are cold into question with a number of journalists who visited this site struggling to find any evidence to the reports. we've heard about it on t.v. but from personal eyewitness accounts no one has seen anything so far the syria conflict seems to have forged the new friendship between the president some from under american the two bolton over and mutual dislike of the conflict stricken country's leader. on the local cameraman claims is really soldiers shot dead and all the armed palestinian teenager on the gal's of the border last week stating he has a video evidence to prove. when i killed him.