do you view them as simply professionals who are doing their job well also you know there are different kinds of people the there are people who really betray their country for money and. they are really double agents in the first sense of the herd i don't consider my sort of the really a double agent. is so. how do i feel about him i don't like traitors on any side i understand he even has soviet intelligence needed i mean agents who are betraying the united states or england and so forth but those people do it for money i didn't hear of anyone. for soviet intelligence only for well except for kim philby personal. conviction. certainly did it for money so tell me something how does that work in this agency is to intelligence agencies just assume that there are inevitably infiltrated do

they take that into account in their work or it does that realisation take them by surprise this is for a cia's concern it did indeed take them by surprise they just couldn't. imagine that somebody could infiltrate them you know go through all the security checks and so forth and you know cia badly and there is still mates people from other countries and particularly from what they call east europe so they couldn't simply. for the love of god think that somebody from such a small of them they heard too often to say you know those are three big people those checks and the russians and so forth but of course you are not like them you are like us you know we. did it was really offensive. what is realizing

that there is a mole in your ranks to turn agents taster panic all around suspicion which hot what happens yeah what happens is indeed panic when in the. late eighty's was given the name of american agents is the soviet union both know how many but about eleven or twelve were caught there was absolute panic in the cia they went as far as trying to get in touch with me right try to persuade me. to give them some kind of hint who could that be they even arranged a meeting with me in munich for that purpose and of course they didn't learn anything from me. surely not but they were panicky so he returned to the

intelligence work because the state secret police harassed to the brink he needed them to stop ruining their lives are most of the people we crowded into this job like that through pressure fear depends for americans it's mostly a career like and the other. is. certainly nationalists and people who have real thick feelings but i think that's secondary. to the primary concern is. the pay the career that the kind of certainties they have of employment my experience was soviet the russian side was that they were more idealistic. they they did it out of their situation and service for their country i mean that was the primary on the first place so in the times of the cold war agents could be recruited on ideological grounds help the

global fight for justice equality these days is all of that done just for cash are the days of ideas on. where in there was the day the sofa ideas i am afraid are gone not necessarily in russia about the most definitely invest the earth but even in russia i think they must have problems because you know have consumer society money is very powerful so i think the danger of. having the. interest rate it is much higher i've been. at the time when i was working for the cia the cia realized it was extremely difficult to recruit an agent in the soviet union and that they certainly couldn't operate in the country is a had practically no patience whatever no it is very different and certainly they

knew russian incursions assume take this into account so what is like the ultimate lot of aid or for someone to find themselves in the shop is that money as it fair i don't know maybe vanity or a desire of a thrill adrenaline what is. what it what what what what's more it is it's too. small or depends on the kind. what kind of a person you are. but ms me it was really a desire to their former public service it was some kind of patriotic bakery on a commitment. there are such people in the cia as well but not that many not that many how good was the money in the business back then oh very bad. intelligence didn't pay me anything get it at all busy exceptional expenses like

when we had a meeting somewhere in paris or i don't know they would pay for the morning ticket and for the hotel but i didn't get any salad. it's all so in the in the cia was in. except about it was better than my when i was teaching at college i made less money than i made in the cia but it wasn't really two great media it was enough but much. more important for either a karzai is it being careful or is it being brave again it's a matter of what kind of a person you are but. the it's not that you want to be a james bond daring thinks but when it comes to doing something dangerous you you do it and you find out the know how fearful you are but. it works fine

for me and sure i was sometimes afraid of doing something risky but i could live with it but i you know i was careful enough not to be caught and i was caught because i was betrayed. so i know you were offering your superiors to use n.g.o.s as umbrellas for spying activities but they didn't go for it was that for side of the or a part on your part or is your idea in years now and it's yes that how is it done c.i. . is outsourcing this kind of thing they are doing the job that the cia should be doing itself but. it seems safer and simpler to to have a non-governmental organization do it for them but but basically it's just an extension of covert operations if it is.

it's that didn't exist because you you couldn't. operate su and the government. organization in the soviet union so that's something which came by the. end of the soviet union was. so are is everyone doing it now all the agencies doing this now using non-governmental organizations as umbrella. yes well they're certainly there are plenty of them in the czech republic plenty of them everywhere. but. i don't think it is so extensive. from the russian side. and i you know you really don't believe that russia has such a strong interest in really influencing. the political

situation in other countries maybe some but certain not to that extent as is the americans all right we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking with carol former czechoslovak spieth a mole who successfully penetrated the cia during the cold war talking about the secret world of intelligence services stay with us. in july twenty second team hunted all set up a freelance journalist watching was on t.v. a militant shelling in syria. the owner of his sacrifice quality has established

a holiday all such a memorial awards they will recognize will revolt as you often risk then off for the sake of the truth comes through that piece you can submit to your published works in a video form britain format go to a war and on t.v. don't come in to know. what politicians do something. they put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president i'm sure. most somewhat want to. have to go on to be press was like before three in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the waters in my house. first sit. up late for many clubs over the years so i know the game and so i guides. football

isn't only about what happens on the pitch for the final school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the super money just billionaire owners and spending to do the twenty million fly a. book it's an experience like nothing else not to because i want to share what i think of what i know about the beautiful guy a great simple bowl chance with. the base is going to. you never know what's around the corner you never know what's in the pub even to walk into excitement it's that mood now and that's where the adrenaline in much comes from. and you can easily be played if you're in the green through of. the violence is a part and it's almost

a schizophrenia. we can do these things and behave badly. important people who are responsible all for the political sport more so for the last one. hundred million infirmed. roll down follows from the start. of a broader where no piper young really did a poll go down with. these music beast if you don't be involved it's constantly evolving.

and we're back with carol a former czechoslovak spy the mole who successfully penetrated the cia during the cold war discussing what the life of an undercover intelligence agent is like or was like so mr cassar women as affective in espionage as we get movies and books is the image of a seductive texan getting atomic secrets out of you on a lover is bad and you work closer reality. is true. only a dollar it may be the israelis are using women in this capacity but otherwise i don't know of anything of that sort. the der americans were trying to charge me and my wife virk ing this way but the debts absolute fiction even never even thought it was absolute nonsense i had its top

secret clearance and there was no reason whatever in two uses this kind of this kind of. offers so this is the lady i think is the main i am what i is simply fixed yes films and books right in real life yes yes yes indeed yes indeed i really don't think so but yes and that is. such such. israel is that israel is use when that is there is how do they is this women yes yes that's well even if they will kidnap somebody or if they want to blow up something so they would send the i don't know car with two women who set up the policeman who is guarding that place and asked him to fix their car and so forth and in the meantime the their. their colleagues

climbed the wall and put explosives on the i don't know battle since chemicals or the. radioactive material so lever but. of course who used it the service that used women and men in this capacity was east german intelligence service a very very good at it. but they knew we didn't do it and i really don't know. anything of that sort taking place in the soviet intelligence service certainly it did but than on a small scale probably i mean compromising people from the diplomatic corps in mosco is described of thing everybody does that but otherwise not during my time it was just. kind of. sort of side result. so can you fish for his full information for somebody without

having access to the classified data at cia me and or elsewhere do you necessarily have to being gates was security services in the country you were spying on to get useful information. is certainly the best way but. it depends what kind of intelligence you want to acquire you can also pose as a scientist or a fight scientist and get a job with some contractor who is producing is some secret kind of weapon and so for snow you don't have to be necessarily. the secret service but you have to have clearance and the clearance is issued by the pentagon. by by the intelligence services the key to. getting information is a clearance so a bunch of russian sleeper agents were exposed by the united states in twenty ten i

don't know if you remember that story they all held usually also it isn't of the right of so they're like we were random usual jobs real estate agent car salesmen and they live normal monday lives so what kind of intelligence can you get is like a cook or if you're a travel agent. if you're asleep or you're just getting ready it means that. a few years or a couple years you might apply for a job some kind of. military contractor you know even if. so what happens to people who wear slippers for years and years i mean they have kids they grow up there one day this kids wake up and they find out they're not even american. their parents aren't who they thought they were. when you were out it were people around you in shock yes indeed in

shock but strangely enough most of them stayed friends. defend my country they would defend. the still. are in touch with quite a few of our friends from the time american friends. so can someone like you a spy a double agent ever guess out of the game completely i mean you had a break for some years and you thought you were out and then a letter comes in and bomb and you're reactivated despise ever retire. i strongly doubt it this is a stuff from films and thrillers from books and the stevie series. no i don't think so it would be most unusual and i was

certainly i'm out of the business so if someone wants to be completely out that that's a choice and nothing's going to come in a way because i've heard different stories i've heard that one top agents want to leave the profession or change the profession they're not let go completely well it depends what kind of an agent it is but i believe that if you really want the good old you know how to do it till you move to a different continent you change identity it's always possible even the result to help a little deal thought is mean so is that the only way i mean if you want to leave a few months so is that the only way for you want to leave the agency and they don't want to let you go that you have to change your identity and go to a different continent that's the only way to leave the profession well if you really are. had access to very sensitive information

that's what i would advise. such an agent to do but otherwise i don't think it's really or that. the dangerous or if you want to leave you leave it in most cases they will let you go you know why because it doesn't make sense for somebody to do something that he doesn't want to do. but our intelligence agency is vengeful. yes the cia was certainly vengeful they did try to compromise me and they certainly spread false rumors they tried to . say threat. stories about me to miss their eventual cia was certainly very much one over the f.b.i. i would say more the f.b.i.

than the. so do you think city cityscape by this case is something like that a double agent paying for what he did and their russian intel official sat that he was exchanged and sent off to the united kingdom because he was no more of any use to russia so than it wasn't the russians so tried to get him. certainly if he was exchange that was it. concerned i honestly believe that they had absolutely no interest. at all and furthermore i mean there is a very important point i would like to make. russian intelligence certainly uses. illegals agents and so-called you know what the agent is miss no no cover they use agents that have no diplomatic cover and they're certainly exposed to great dangers and when they are court or arrested the only way to get them back home is

to have them exchanged so there is no way that the russian side would endanger this kind of exchange business is so scrip are most definitely wasn't a victim of any kind of operation or at that from the russian side because that would totally destroy the russian credibility as far as exchanges are concerned and they are dependent on it because they certainly have to get their people back if they get into trouble so the russians are now saying that the british intelligence is hiding scrape os from everyone to saying that could be the case it was they certainly are highly highly the most natural thing would be for at least for his daughter who seems to be in good shape to appear at a press conference or to talk to journalists they certainly are hiding the two of them as much as they can so like you sat script how was of

no real value to the russian intelligence why do you think that the british british are so adamant at blaming the russians. if there case. then. there is certainly is some kind of scenario of. russian operations and. just became a good opportunity i really don't believe that scripture was. i think there was maybe an accident or maybe there was no nothing at all maybe that this was just made up to have some kind of. some kind of reason to a skull eight and then operations and sentients in a new publicity now you really don't believe that anybody from that arson side would. try to cause him harm. to think that the british will ever allow

the russians to meet with the script i don't think so why because the whole thing is so suspicious you know you cannot know what he's going to say. maybe scruple himself would not be willing to do what they ordered him to do he is obviously a traitor he's not a very reliable person. the moral person so even if he agrees to say what they tell him to say he wanted to change his mind when the speaking on camera i don't think they would ever allow him to meet with the russians oh right thing and the family very very much for this really interesting insights into their world over the top spy. mr co-chair where we're talking to carol co-chair former check

by a mole successfully penetrated the cia during the cold war discussing their role intelligence agents playing global politics well that's it for this edition of stuff in ca see you next. about your sudden passing i've only just learnt. a south in taking your last bang turn. you're at it up to us we all knew it would i tell you i'm sorry for me i could so i write these last words in hopes to put to rest these things that i never got off my chest. i remember when we first met my life turned on each.

but then my feelings started to change you talked about war like it was again still some more fun to feel those that didn't like to question our arc and i secretly promised to never be like it said one does not leave a funeral the same as one enters the mind it's consumed with this one to. speak to us there are no other takers. claimed that mainstream media has met its make. los angeles the city of luxury and free but also an alarming number of people living in the streets. the simple fact in l.a. says there's just not enough shelter even if people on the streets right now decided to come in there's nowhere to come in and it's been a struggle. to get this man from his own response to the problem and constructed

dozens of tiny homes for people in need of shelter when you have nothing in order to go. you know having something like this may as well be a castle but do the earth or news except such solution tiny house on a city parking space is not a solution you craft someone wanted touring the site otherwise it will be a free for all the news there a better alternative to an. the homelessness crisis. or the mainstream media playing out roles found in the great russian novel the possessed. media never been more dangerous and is peace breaking out on the korean peninsula. you know. you never know what's around the

corner you never know what's in the pub you can walk into an ease that excitement is that knowing that's where the adrenaline in much comes from. and you can easily move plentiful and the extremes will probably support. the violence in the pub and is that almost a schizophrenia to where you can do all these things and behave badly. they're going to be a whole host of for all. of us both more so for the last. one this man infirmed. wall all this and if. i would roll the way enough i figure out to get a poll down down went up a little bit. meaning anything is that beneath if you don't and the involves it's constantly evolving and.

we all willingly accepted the risk of being shot wounded taken prisoner but news first signed up to be friggin poisoned by our own people i've seen stuff that was nuclear biological and chemical products said do not truck tires all types of styrofoam polystyrene batteries trucks there was a complete denial i think at all levels of government that there was any connection between berm pits and what these brave soldiers were suffering from to compensate every soldier marine airman and sailor that was on the ground that are complaining about illnesses from their exposure from the berm pits would really literally send a v. a growth and they don't want to pay it so the waiting and decades a lot of those soldiers will die. charge and they will have to pay. for it the middle finger the movie is tomorrow. delayed and i hope you got.

any partnership blossoms of international politics as the french and american presidents ball and over a mutual dislike him seriously need to. be told the number of activists questioning the west's narrative being singled out as kremlin controlled online we speak to one of these bloggers then accused by the u.k. being of russian people. in the british government if they can't even compete for him that i'm not an automaton how can we believe anything they have to say about the evidence to help poor scruple and syria's chemical attacks. also had launched not a cameraman says he has video evidence showing that a palestinian boy who was shot dead by israeli forces on the gaza border on friday posed no threat to the soldiers that. when i filmed him he wasn't carrying a stone.