is this becoming a foreign policy victory for. welcome to worlds apart after receiving a nobel peace prize just a few years ago the organization for the provocation of chemical weapons now finds itself at the center of a major military standoff which some fear may digress into world war three can this obscure scientific organization task without holding a major international norm do its job without itself falling victim to geo political wrangling well to discuss that i'm now joined by

a former un chemical weapons expert in iraq dr great to talk to you thank you very much for coming over this morning. now just a few years ago very few people are parts from a narrow circle of specialist even knew what the o.p.c. w.y. say they only started to appear in global media after famous or infamous barack obama's statement on the red line if it weren't for that statement do you think we would be discussing the use of chemical weapons today. the point is that right now we see that. the special position for western countries. responsibility for the use of chemical weapons to iraqi government. syrian government. makes it possible for all opposition groups to use the chemical weapon to pretend this is the fault of syrian government.

because in the situation like today the western. on trees they do not wait for any investigation they assign the responsibility and then they punish for the chemical weapon use but when you see they punish both in this case with their latest strikes and in the previous case with the alleged attack on hunch a hole in. the response by the united states by its allies was definitely illegal from their point of view of international law but it was also very limited and it's also quite difficult to understand what kind of military objective it could have pursued do you think deployment of using these chemical weapons use care is the point political or is it military is it to advance a military objectives or simply to you know malign syria even more you know we would not see any any real. military gains in these strikes so

the this is really politically sure if this would be technical or military or something. it would require more than just accusations based on videos from the internet or social network but what's the point and i clearly they don't like president assad i mean the they made that position clear seventy years ago so what's the point of pushing these red line that they supposedly want to protect themselves i mean it's clear to understand from a tactical and strategic point of view what could be gained from that of course. syrian government is an important issue right now we see that the syrian government with the support of russia and the iranians are gaining more control over syrian territory that was. state control previously and

who are all the acts. in this area the understand there will be. everything and they would like to get their foot in the door to make sure that they still will be viable buyable players from what i understand russia iran turkey de try to engage them in various negotiating for months it's not like i mean there is a talk about having at government of national reconciliation in syria there is talk about holding new elections so there are some political values that they can pursue and to the credit of both the russians and the syrians i'm interested by to hear but still i think they allowed many of the militant groups to leave the area which is by my account unprecedented in the more than history of warfare so these people are actually treated pretty decently and they. yes but you have to

understand. russians and syrians. bunches of opposition to leave. areas. you have to understand these are not just oppositions into syrian sources there was about seven hundred. advisors. together with the opposition of course we're. finishing. the opposition area so there will be a risks some western advisers also would be hit from the intensity of allegations i think perhaps the goals that they are pursuing out far bigger deal not off not only the syrian government i mean in diet point of view

it's not legitimate at all but i do you think our goals go father in terms of diligent in my eyes in both russia iran and perhaps even turkey you can see that. it's a chain of events after. russia told the joint investigative mechanism we got a statement. who said that russia. responsibility for the use of chemical weapons in syria there was a kind of trial and i mean that if there were similar statements of fact. but. she never did that. in her predecessor. the. united nations certainly blamed the russia for a very high civilian for supporting the son who's the chemical weapons but the direct blame in russia for the use of chemical weapons in syria there was

a very strange also very shocking because russia had very very high reputation in the world of chemical weapons let me ask you specifically about the role that the can play in all of that because unlike national governments unlike national delegations it is actually constrained by its own convention it has to follow the procedure all of these be seen as following the procedure. how much does god allow for political influences to be exerted on the. scientist and servant question. w. was. invented organization that would be purely technical. but . the structure or for office w. allow some politics so. consists of conference of state parties hundred ninety two countries the executive council and the technical

secretariat there are people who do the technical work so inspectors. technical assistance and so administration administration but they do the work. executive council consists of forty one. state parties and that's exactly the area where politics will be brought the last events especially the situation is all bring in. a situation in the use of chemical weapons in syria brought more politics in the situation the difference from my point every year between politics and science is that politics starts with a conclusion and science is supposed to be open and it when you go out to investigate something you should not have any preconceived notion about who might have done it. how does it balance itself out when it comes to the actual

investigation so for example when scientists go out and collect the samples do they have enough freedom to investigators samples and to deliver the scientific opinion on them you have very good question but let me show how the politics are digital from the technical issues. when russia. suggests that decision executive council to support the mission or w. in syria the western countries. actually blog decision but she. wrote the request to. w. . mission specters to do if you did that so this is politics versus technical so how technically this work was performed the specter scam to. use of chemical

weapons and they collect samples but they also work with the people they work with hospitals they talk with witnesses they see those people who. were admitted to the hospitals and take their biological samples and all those samples they brought to headquarters. in the hague and. from the hague the samples are sent to designated laboratories there are twenty two . in the world at the moment and they analyzed those samples. did have probes intelligent use of chemical weapons in syria before and i talked last year it's you had the russian envoy to the organization official going and he told me that some of those probs were stopped by the people by the specialist who tend to con from the friends of syria group and that group obviously is very eager

to see mr assad out many of these samples and many of the testimonies were provided by turkey which is also not the neutral player in that war so if how can you have so much confidence in the process right now when in the past it delivered the results that russia clearly didn't agree with that is a very good question but. look you can trust to the results. only in the case when. sick. according to the chain of custody. that means. an inspector. came to the site. himself put it in the vial. not just close it but sealed it with a special seal. be broken and then those samples are delivered to. their opened in controlled.

environments. records are kept this is exactly. now already have i think a very clear in the western media to suggest that the russia and syria used this initial delay in the ability of the o.p.c. inspectors to access the scene that they used this specific lee to clean the area from a technical from a scientific point of view can the o.p.c. w. inspectors establish why that the scene was tampered with because even if they deliver clean samples in this case clean from the russian point of view the west i think would easily come out and say that. there is nothing there simply because the russians killed all the evidence. yes but in the case of. actually there were not. specters who came into the samples yeah turkish side had

provided them with lots of an. investigative mechanism to. use of chemical weapons in tashi whom it was possible to analyze the samples and. you think that russia can rely on that kind of argument it's not really but the port. authority. yes you can clean the area but the use of chemical weapons and remember chemical weapons is not the one you take poison injected into one person so you have to. eat a whole area to make the mass killing of people so that's chemical weapons eat that so the whole area should be should be contaminated soil. building constructions and. a lot of the

a lot of the. structures in the to clean it really clean it you have to probably demolish maybe couple of. blocks not even couple but maybe five ten blocks of the city you have to demolish and take it out so it's impossible to do that but it's not just the samples this is witnesses this is hospitals this is a victim you know there is a narrative of western narrative about two and there we already see seen that in the western paper suggesting that some of the witnesses have been under pressure from their side government anyway so it's going to have to take a very short break now but we'll be back in just a few moments stay tuned. anything

that iraq free trade interrupts trade and i think interim freedom is a reversion back to meall feudalism and we see that happening right down to the states and presumably you're accountable as well as concentrate your for your hands grabbing a river of the risk of meal two dollars on the horizon krypto is the else in my view and it is an asset class and it is gobbling up market share and the u.s. dollar is doing. also the money is still. welcome back to worlds apart with untold wealth can their former u.n. chemical weapons expert in iraq doctor the syrian file is obviously not the only one that the b c w is wrestling with this script all cases still going through the

motions at the organization in terms of the procedural options open to them. is it looking better for russia or the u.k. at this point the longer the u.k. officials keep the results of investigation in secret so the more. capability they have to blame russia without any supporting evidence. the question is why this happens the point is first we see the right to know the u.k. generated over seventeen different versions of how scruples were poisoned we see how. they determine where the chemical was produced and they also lied about their country of origin but they still continue doing that and i think

i correct me if i'm wrong but i would think that if there's any hope for russia to sort of constrain that it would be through using the o.p.c. w. makan is now my understanding and i may be wrong on that is that the u.k. from the very beginning wanted to create an impression of the o.p.c. w.-a being involved but it did not follow the formal of that it was through the technical secretariat rather through the through the formal procedure prescribed by the convention why would they do that and why would the o.p.c. w. agree to be engaged in such an unconventional way through the technical secretary at the rather than through you know challenge inspections and what have you. well. step by step first of all why do not it start to to. bring to politics. you first of all you have to understand actually killing one person is a criminal case so it's not the use of chemical weapons like the brother of.

military grade the nerve agent diverted on the territory rather of compassion in the literal for north korea was killed with vs that was military great agent not the chalk was never proved to be chemical agent and if you take. w. who considered in two thousand and eleven to said there is no confirmation that this is chemical. neutral agreed agent. it was in the interest of the u.k. to engage the o p c w that then you can blame not just in the criminal. case but you can blame the perpetrators in the use of chemical weapons which is much more aggravated position absolutely and actually disses wrong because.

rather a kitchen he was killed with the expert nobody used. in this case so right now they start to use but they didn't call for inspection. use of chemical weapons they invited opus w. inspection even not the spectrum but their representatives. is a technical assistance and the only question that they put before the people was. if the chemical that we determined. to be used. as a poison is correct or not so people. they checked this out yes this is correct structure of the chemical and eat but that allowed the u.k. to state the confirmed their suspicions against russia which was they were already called out on that but i saw you say in a previous interview that it was

a mistake on the part of russia not to pursue article nine of the convention in a more forceful way do you think russia still has the procedural means to pressure the u.k. to provide all the evidence that it has because my understanding of why they didn't pursue the formal wrote this is because they would have had to provide all the you know intelligence information all the classified data in order to call for let's say inspection by using the technical secretary they don't really have to provide anything is that right well. according to. the article nine. there is a procedure that you can request the state party and you can exchange information and consult with the body if you do not. respect your answer you can go through the executive council if you do not get this abstract through council you

can go up to the conference of state parties do you think russia should call for this cause i believe that russia right now. according to the procedure so russia requests that information from the u.k. it didn't get the satisfied so right now it is in position to make the same request of. executive council no exact to council wouldn't vote for that so they would just . transfer the request to the u.k. and you can provide the answer to that to council which will be transferred to russia so russia has to use. procedure that would show that russia full of international. weapons is the bureaucracy better understand your correctly who pursues the. full of all the procedures of the convention unlike the kingdom now in one of your previous

interviews he also said that the very categorical nature of britain's accusations against russia left its with no room for maneuver essentially london has no other way but to double down on its initial narrative regardless of how conflicting the evidence is and. i think that it was perhaps in our discussion on syria but and i'm going to ask you again do you think any amount of evidence any amount of testimony and due process following the rules is going to how to you this issue in a way that would be fair to all sides because from my position from my point of view what we have is that politico wrangling yet again nobody's really interested apart that perhaps for russia in establishing the scientific fact that's exactly true russia. really interested in the joint investigation.

it why. this is. a territory no it happened with russian citizen russian according to the vienna convention relations has the right to communicate with russian citizens in any case but do not a kingdom doesn't do that so no. details of the investigation i would like you to note one thing actually the recently. general director of w was interview. interviewed by pranks and he said very interesting thing that was the question why not agent was determined. to composed only in the blood or for yulia scruple it was. supposed to be decomposed. met the bullies and.

but they found decomposed in their blood in your blood but not in the blood or who was exposed. or exported to the chemical agent so that was very strange because it is not clear how cap and frisch agent was. and it's not in the not the first inconsistency in these or any previous investigations i mean the very nature of the allegation that teresa mayes government made against russia i mean they are accusing us of lawful use of force by the russian state against the united kingdom this is an unprecedented allegation but when they made a decision to go ahead of that i soon that they have also made a calculation that they have what it takes to win this battle of narratives i suppose that they presume that they have and i france and i have enough. political

ammunition to get what they want the right. part of this battle but i. i was told that if you see a dead body and a person running with a knife around his body it doesn't mean the person trying to apply common sense to the situation when i think it's it's no longer play couple years all sad that the vienna convention is nothing to the u.k. authorities they couldn't care less about it is true but you have to understand the world is not clear right now or on the u.k. . u.s. and several more western countries a lot of countries are watching this situation and they make a conclusion that actually any of them can undergo the same situation when they can be blood blamed in the use of chemical weapon and they can distract with missiles on the reason and right now they see how russia is performing in this situation and

they really have to understand who they are going to be for in this situation morell. let me ask you one more question about the questionable claims that the russian side has advanced i'm sure your heard the russian foreign minister statement about this we slavs discovery of the bees that toxin in some samples as well as speculations that the script symptoms are more consistent with that poisoning rather than over chunks those claims were directly contradicted by the o.p.c. w. which said it was discovered and controlled rather than the actual samples do you think the bees at stories closed by now and do you think it was appropriate on the russian side to present the information in a way that was presented well to be frank with you i believe that the explanation. is quite satisfactory they can do special control samples to make sure that

it is. determined by both laboratories and they know exactly what. the russians were right to use the confidential information that they i assume received through some intelligence sources in such a way that would put the o.p.c. w.-o. on the spot because russia does need the goodwill and called ration and of of the international body wasn't bad undermining that goodwill. right now. in the situation with without any evidence so what should russian. the game. russia hundred percent loser from the beginning russia is supposed to use any keys any facts any evidence to protect itself and to fight in this particular game well here saying is that desperate times call

for desperate measures doctor was going to have to leave it there i really appreciate your being with us this morning and i invite our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages as for me to see again same place same time here on worlds apart.

in july twenty seventh in on an attempt to freelance journalist watching was on t.v. a militant shelling in syria. the owner of his sacrifice quality has established a holiday all sorts of memorial lives they will recognize will revolt as you often risked their lives with the sake of the truth comes through that peace you can submit to your published works in either a video or written form to go toward auntie dot com and to now. we live in surreal times a short time ago even imagining a negotiated end to the tensions on the korean peninsula was

a flight into fancy but here we are is just becoming a foreign policy victory for trump. we were scared they started to pour water on me i don't know why they did this nor them as professionals we saw that there were no symptoms suggesting chemical weapons had been used. in the story is that shaped the week witnesses gave testimony on the alleged chemical attack in duma but some refused to listen. for the first time in sixty five years the leaders of north and south korea me to almost all the inside of the border to open a new chapter in the peninsula's history. and the key witness in the russian doping scandal fails to confirm some of his allegations even though the careers of many russian owsley may have been ruined by his claims.