global war hawk still you on the idea that dropping bombs brings police to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battles are they going. to do sox credit tell you that will be gossip the public by itself a little more used to. call them off about advertising how you think you are not cool enough to buy their products. these are the hawks that we along with all the walking. ministries police forces and city administrations of many countries depend on one corporation that does what mike was hoping the boy doesn't come from the muslim god i'm just going to come to. woods as that on into the sea it's enough to live in proprietary software you don't know the source code isn't that a such

a security risk when you have a black box operating the public eye to microsoft dependency puts governments under a cyber threat and not only that. mall. is selling one of the most. recent war. with. the us this is. the home stipend on. the old version stopped and it was listing of the fun is up and his cards on the phone.

hello and welcome to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter lavelle war in remembrance sunday marks the seventy third anniversary of victory in europe over fascism this is one of the most important dates on the russian calendar that can't be said of the europeans and americans to discuss how that conflict continues to impact russia's view of the world to this day. crosstalk in the great patriotic war i'm joined by my guest mark sloboda he's an international affairs and security analyst we also have he is a founder of. the center of political strategic analysis strap poll and we have peter cousin and he is a professor of history at american university as well as co author with oliver stone the untold history of the united states or a german cross-like rules in effect that means you can jump in in any time you want i always appreciated let's talk about what the russians call the great patriotic

war or as the rest of the western world calls it the second world war now peter you've been visiting in moscow. you've probably seen a lot of evidence celebrating the victory day on may ninth but you don't see that in the west you don't see that in the united states why the significant difference . one big difference is that the soviet union lost twenty seven million people how many people in the west know about. well actually i've got some statistics on that i didn't have to show that unscientific sampling by students undergraduates not history majors and i asked them how many americans died in world war two the median answer i got was ninety thousand which means there were only three hundred thousand off ok that's not bad that's in the ballpark asked of his university students who were personally students mostly freshman game are these are mostly structure and i was at university i used to teach university. a

few chairs yet and i asked them how many soviets died of world war two and the median answer i got was one hundred thousand which means that they were only twenty seven million off so these kids know nothing not only about world war two they can't understand what's happening in ukraine they can't stand anything that's going on between the united states and russia now there is an extraordinary degree of ignorance in the united states about world war two. it's not intentional ignorance i think it is i think there is a the liberal role both officially from the u.s. government the dominant within the us media and particularly perpetuated by hollywood of the role that the u.s. played the hugo of put out a poll just this year asking the questions of the u.s. and six seven european states in your opinion which one country would you say

contributed most to the defeat of germany and world war two most americans surprise believe the. they played the biggest role by fifty five seemingly private ryan right brian france most french this is a big change from right after the war right after the war fifty seven percent of french believe that the soviet union played the biggest role and defeat of nazi germany today forty seven percent a plurality believe that the united states played the biggest rise where only fifteen in germany a plurality believe the united states played the biggest role by thirty seven to twenty seven percent in the u.k. they believe they played the biggest role by fifty one percent. to fifteen percent denmark sweden finland norway all also a plurality believe that the u.s. will that big but that's a function of the cold war that's a function of nato i would say it started it started just after the second world war i twenty and specially for germany because if you remember.

ok it was not created himself after the second world war it was not. you were you were you believed in germany but you were advisor for the first the west germany army the chief of staff. in the one nine hundred forty it was advisable for that to be. one of those interesting things that you had good not spare the good nazi ok and then you whitewash the rest of it you know one of the most important things the legacy of the second world war we have the division of europe we have the cold war. but on the bright side we had the establishment of the united nations charter. and i think that's really significant speed up to the present i think mark how many. posture reports of three i think already.

china russia iran north korea there are the revisionist powers i would posit in light of the establishment of the united nations charter and in light of what's going on in syria it's the western powers the revisionist powers if you put it next to the united nations charter we have the french we have the british and the americans going all the way back to one thousand nine hundred six put. in deciding the fate of syria in the middle east by passing in the job they would say it's a legitimate bypass of the united nations charter peter that we're going backwards and we're not learning some of the very few good things that we got from that conflict that ended in one thousand nine hundred ninety. one of the first item on the agenda for the united nations was nuclear disarmament to make sure there was a doctor and that there's only been seventy two years we haven't gotten exactly close to that i mean the real purpose of the united nations has never been achieved

and the potential for the united nations has never been achieved but during world war two roosevelt had initially but different approach in forty two here started to set mala target a trusted general to washington and they may have forty two and that's when roosevelt promised to open up the second front in europe before the end of the one nine hundred forty two and it's also when roosevelt said what we need after that war is for police but that the united states russia britain and china should get together and we should maintain world peace security stability and that was a vision that clearly was never put into effect but we need leaders now. now we're going to act a part of that kind of what we have a deficit of leaders in the institutions under attack markets worse because there is a will from the west to twist the idea of the international structures and not only

us but every kind of struck to it you could be. it could be anything i just want to make this is true which we created and i think it was a good thing just after the war to avoid future wars they want to use it as an instrument. for input and that it's very dangerous what we have here is a sense of this many many times in this program really who are the term used in the west the international community what does it mean it means nato membership japan australia new zealand israel and some of the sponsor ok so again this is a vision of the vision that was supposed to come about with the end of the most horrific war which given the statistics that you've given us most western publics forgotten to have never been taught if you are a little speech. which is a foreign minster just after syria was

incredible telling that. you know it's not talking about legality because it's not the legal setting up but legitimity. legit it was just me personally galloway and also oh you can define it as they want to say we did for you there is a return to just war. of you know the late medieval period. in the west in the halls of government academia and the media which all echo they continually talk about russia and sometimes china as revisionist or revanche powers against they don't there's two different world orders we're talking about they refer to the liberal world order not to the un. list world order they're talking about the world order that they believe started with britain woods and continued up through the collapse of the soviet union and came to its biggest height of unique polarity of u.s. led western hegemony during the one nine hundred ninety s.

and what they're talking about is russia and china returning to positions of great power status in the world are blocking their control of the world whereas russia and china and i'm not going to stand for it k.k. from a realist perspective and of course from a relativist position of weakness they'll to the us prefer the rules bound system one thousand nine hundred five established by the un. whereas the us regards the principle un prince of the security council principles un charter principles of sovereignty and non interference to be antiquated policies ok i think you're paraphrasing mr john bolton there you know peter one of the things one of the biggest problems and we'll talk about russia's relationship with the west in the next part of the program but i think one of the biggest problems is that you have policymakers and media in the west they can never put themselves in rush's shoes

have to look at how they see the world you know nato has demonstrated. that it is it will pursue policies that are beyond the bounds of international law meaning that it. rises above it and we've got the legality versus legitimacy issue here i mean the russians see nato expansion is a threat ok and the there are you know here we are in two thousand and eighteen and we have. american and other nato countries having their militaries on russia's borders i mean this is the worst nightmare for for the russian leadership considering today it's focusing on what happened in june one thousand nine hundred one corporates have got a promise in one nine hundred ninety when he allowed the unification of germany that nato would not expand one thumbs with to the east. and then they started to. hedge on that and hungry. what's interesting i'm sorry but you know but

then now nato has expanded thirteen countries to the east doubled its membership since the end but the real turning point came in two thousand and eight when george bush said we want to expand to ukraine and georgia and that was passed russia's red line and they were there and putin has not allowed our can't really stop it but he stood up to it and what's happened since has made this a very very dangerous world. beginning with syria and the u.s. involvement in syria and the syrian civil war and then the what happened in ukraine and they're very conscious effort to wrest ukraine from the russian orbit and what we've seen now with not only with nato but with the nuclear confrontation increasing putin's march first state of the nation address announces five new nuclear weapons that can all of what america's ballistic missile defense program but there was the all of branch of let's sit down in talk we haven't heard a response from the well we're going to we're going to jump in here we're going to

go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on some real estate with our. pressure at the way is anti american anti-democratic and we can look at that quite plainly by understanding the stock price approach rather it was that response so it's trading i think there are three hundred thousand dollars a share so the message from charlie munger and warren buffett americans is unless you've got three hundred thousand dollars to buy one share of berkshire hathaway you're a player you're a peasant here you know they are the neo feudal lords that are building the system milking the system abusing the system and aggregating wealth as raunchy a coupon clippers and nickel and dime are they add nothing to the economy.

the new global economic war is unfolding in the realm of education the right to education is being supplanted by the right to access education low its high education is becoming just another product that can be pulled from sold so there's not just about education anymore it's also about running a business where you could know most of the regime you could look at these souls. they couldn't. want is the place of students in this business model before college

i was born now and i'm extremely more higher education the new global economic war. welcome back to cross talk were all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. if you want to finish up on this promise that was made to go to the. alliance would not move further east beyond a united very important united germany. i think it was during the interview it was a question about that with all of us tone. to go but sure of that should we get a signature. not on the premises. and that does not tell you even if you tell me so i didn't expect it but i just i just have one

question at least getting a signature and of course if you don't you didn't get it and and i'm sure. you can sign with us to no it will just ask you a rainy day. well that the ok the u.s. was not part of them is going to nonetheless you like you want to do. more about nato yeah yeah i mean as a u.s. military veteran of nato operations peter brought up the number of the increase in the number of nato countries since the end of the cold war thirteen almost doubling the size of nato but that hasn't led to an increase in either nato as military strength nor in its security for either itself or the world to the contrary it has led to greater insecurity for europe montenegro and these other countries that haven't contributed to the safety of the people in nato countries and there's

a lot of challenges you know that we need to expand to protect europe from russia right and they don't that when russia resupplies and. they feel threatened by nato expansion how could you be threatened by us it it's a fact that nato and its member states are the most aggressive military bloc on earth the number of interventions regime change military operations in the past twenty years or just over that since the end of the soviet union from serbia to iraq to libya to syria to yemen today how could russia not feel threatened by nato they would be fools and if they did you can see this blatant illegal military aggression as a threat and that there is nato is a fig leaf to them to which washington to even call it seems there's a link in the legitimisation and shallum is it's gotten more and more dangerous yes we're closer to a conflict for more divisions in eastern europe nato plus the

american troops more funding and the russians respond of course and they sent troops to their side of the border they've got nuclear capable the scanner missiles in. kaliningrad and now we're developing hypersonic you know weapons and where the u.s. is trying to make battlefield meaning nukes more usable right we're living through there was printed in chile you know this is exponentially more dangerous it reduces reduces decision times it makes strategic conflict much more problematic and difficult to stop even so even acceptable that's what's really scary about even acceptable i think we're in a worse position than we ever were in the cold war but the russian was very clear there was no and you were there on the nuclear war as soon as you was used you couldn't a nuclear bomb you would get a nuclear bomb right there there's no difference between.

talking about and equipments nuclear weapons in my opinion but indeed suspended from the reagan did with the ideas in one nine hundred eighty three you started a new. but this time the trap is for us and it works actually if you look at us. yes. i have already noted. strong declarations look at what. does russia we have to assume you have the anti-ballistic missile treaty the us i walked away from one of the pillars of arms control and as we speak right now we have decision time with iran again i was a very strong critic obama's foreign policy but i lauded him for this amazing move in because it's going against. fighting nuclear proliferation and it should be senator an example i have to disagree with you. start any arms race the china

india and the you have all been developing and you know everybody well you must damn mr you misunderstand me when i think it's putting exactly no works in us that there is a search. for a military complex that if you just put some new cards on the table all the systems would start to work. with any control. because if you look at the difference in the defense. the defense of the website the us defense which side newspapers and magazines and they are talking about oh we are going to get again the first place before russia they want to know there is again one billion to develop some well i mean that but that's also

a function of the military industrial complex there's a lot of money to be only you know here to start with it russia. putin create the trap yes because they were doing it for. a very good starting you were going to. the new system of protection and so on no that's not right let the u.s. bankrupt themselves with their. peter. we were talking about things that obama did well they read the treaty but obama also supported the trillion dollar modernization program over the next thirty years of america's nuclear arsenal which we now estimate is going to probably close to what. he's prized right hey i didn't say have to go because it's all very well you get everything out to the nobel to the media only president for a few months to be fair the head of the nobel committee has said i made a mistake with that no kidding. so you don't know how much you're going to get back so no prizes and wonder how did you mean it right ok gentlemen how do we get out of

this downwards spiral. because it's good to ask this question today on the anniversary of the peak of fascism in europe because the soviet union in the united states along with france along with britain were allies and it was a. world historic moment now look where we stand people how do we get out of this hole or we don't. we have no international leader on a global scale who represents anything beyond his own country's national interests you are talking about the need to see the world for the eyes of your adversaries and nobody is really doing that trump is incapable. of not sure what he's more narrowly focused certainly merkel is not doing that with all my interviews i keep pushing putin to play that role. but he hasn't done that yet but we need somebody to speak for humanity will be called aggressive behavior i'm sorry i'm

sorry we did ok and so but between the u.s. and russia there are three conflict areas now but we've got to find some way to sit down and talk and try to begin to resolve some find something we can do. work together on the problem with. into discursive dilemma because if you sit down and talk peace minute ok that's what how it's been painted by the current political establishment the trouble accused of appeasement and why they want to talk to north korea moving told them to go f. themself is now. it's now. made progress in terms of resolving this thing that result because of trumps threats look out result degree of shock you could make that claim on syria as well if you when you look at non non western powers that are involved i mean what we could put turkey iran and russia working towards peace you know that's something

they don't recognize again this is seen as a as a strategy of appeasement in this is what i find most. frustrating because we had two major cease fires in the works in syria what power up ended it was the united states. since since you know. the establishment of the neo. liberal global capitalist system which has been evidently led to its own the structure and by the trade of the west anyway it's a originators by the slow transfer of wealth from the west to the east as as the west declines in their relative share of global g.d.p. and other countries rise to the fore until the u.s. and its client states in the west give up on the idea of the uni polar world though of us again many where they set the values and standards for those of the world i'm afraid there won't be any peace but there is no doubt that you know polar moment is

you know very interesting if not all recognition is not of that recognition because the one who announced it was charles krauthammer and first he went for the unit polar moment and then in two thousand and three said it's the unit pole era it's going to be unbounded in two thousand five is said well the unipod moment is over so there is a growing recognition for it fukuyama has given up on the end of history but but now as you know of all those books generally the us government the us political and it must be said now the european political elite have exceptionalism views that haven't given up on that until there is radical political change which i believe is structurally impossible foreign policy wise in the united states then it is only the us is economic decline that will allow room for the real both of a multi-polar world i don't believe we need one global leader to lead the pack i think we need recognition the there are multiple multi-polar sometimes of power and we need these world leaders recognizing their own limitations russia recognizes

certainly know that it has limits you know where can exceptionalism. that is what our own limitations because if you don't it's just in my opinion there is a reason for hope it's the russia of course mark. domestic because russia is an open country we are in the cold war when we have in the west such an image of the. soviet union that you know a great country where it's always winter and everybody under you know another three and so for instance in one month and in my opinion is that the reason why the west tried to get out of this event with. i don't know hundreds of thousands. of supporters you see that there are bears roaming around the streets. and we obviously are talking about the world and it will be the end it's not you it's not

intellectuals it's not intelligence or us intelligence it's normal people you know loving and loving and. they will if they would come to russia they will talk to russia and they will see that. works not so bad in russia actually that there is no aggressivity from from the russian population even with the u.s. cities and all of their quarterly that are here many thanks my guest here in moscow this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with us for the extended version on or you tube channel see you next time and remember.

the be. the be. the be. the be. the be. split.

celebrating victory day which started with the military parade in the morning and it's now wrapping up with a spectacular fireworks display. of people swept through moscow taking part in the immortal regiment march remembering relatives who died fighting in the great war also. the. cia veteran is thrown out of the confirmation hearing for donald trump for the new head of the agency protest over her alleged involvement in torture. and u.s. flags on the streets of tehran after donald trump decides to withdraw from the iranian nuclear deal.