war zones we get on says on guns which counts and cool been winning elections from the former chair of scotland yard's operation trident claudio webb now on the national executive of britain's labor party and from former u.k. home office minister on the tories of may to protest rock n roll that we are asked for will live. about his new solo album and about his role in the when drug scandal last from that lines how bungling boris was not so foxy on us t.v. and the american fleet that's all that see again both the civil war coming up and today's going underground but first what does it say about international human rights and law enforcement the gina hospital is wanted by dole trump and barack obama's espionage bosses to run the notorious cia the world has known about alleged cia violations of international law around the world for decades on the death squads of central america two assassinations in africa so what is half full dozen that is so bad even she saw the merit in withdrawing today's bid to run the organization but tend to think i

a director gina half offered to withdraw her nomination to head the spy agency but the president rebuffed her humble offer so how humble is she here is someone who worked with their interviewed here in jena high school has long had all over her hands she's the godmother of the cia's torture program that's the take of cia whistleblower john kiriakou but if it's confirmed today won't she be winning her rightful place as the people's choice or the u.s. electoral college is choice for running the agency after all it was trump who said this on the campaign trail yes i would bring back waterboarding and i'd make it a hell of a lot worse than what what did you have in mind i had in mind going worse than waterboarding it's enough we have right now a country that's under siege it's under siege from people from like living in medieval times how the cia will function with british law enforcement agencies around the world knows it is led by so called god mother of illegal us torture housefull is open to. question trump is there on the record for slamming an unnamed

hospital in the british capital for resembling a war zone it comes after sixty two murders in london so far this year well joining me now is the former chair of scotland yard's operation trident she's now on the national executive committee of one of europe's largest socialist movements a british labor party led by jeremy corbyn claudio thanks for coming back on the show aside from torture which presumably you nor the labor party can do and received inertial. issued a report today criticizing image of all the police is gang matrix to tell you what the gang matrix is first of all because it was there when you working at the met you know first of all i didn't work for the mets i was part of the set of people from the community that got together and said enough was enough and set up operation trident as a partnership with the police to tackle the disproportionate effect of gun crime on essentially on black communities so what we sought to do was was create a step change in a mill and enable the police to build

a better relationship with the black community based on trust and confidence rather than based on the what they were doing at that at that time which was what they called yardie crime and indeed importing criminals from overseas in order to help them solve what was largely a particular problem affecting men the five minutes you see in guns to protect the crack cocaine industry scotland yard imported criminals who oversees yes they did that in the in the in the sense of what they call what they called police informants what we would call quinnell informants essentially they had a better relationship with people overseas than they did with the black community in britain moved talking about the mid one nine hundred ninety s. to the early noughties and in fact it wasn't until the stephen lawrence inquiry that we then have a better relationship with the police whereby they were prepared to listen and indeed stepped up a dedicated duty focused on tackling this. gun crimes on black community and then

of course we were dealing with men of violence who were using guns to protect a crack cocaine industry the term gangs did not emerge anywhere in terms of tried in until around twenty twelve there was mutant of this notion of karin's in and around two thousand and seven when the police tried to explain why there was an increase in the spate of the young people who were being gunned down on our street there was a period of time a particular time where it was akin to a succession of young people in two thousand and seven and then we challenge the use of the term gangs at that point because gangs of course you know the police have a particular definition organized criminality when it when it applies to go and it wasn't until twenty twelve that the police wanted to introduce what they called the gangs matrix to try to understand what was going on with young people and the rise in crime in particular and input and also they wanted to link that to what happened

in terms of i suppose what they did and what we called the london riots what is your. matrix what the gang make is a said was introduced by the police in what is it one hundred twelve well my understanding is their method of trying to understand what is happening with the increased involvement of young people carry knives and be prepared to use in this so divorced from the communities in which they believe that they have to create a. computer or a system to understand their own rewards i don't think it's a data system is that whenever they come in contact with a young person god list of what that young person is about whether they've committed a crime or not they then decide that that young person is greed. is a very tragic situation really a number of fatalities this year but are you seriously saying if they come into contact with them and then the night is traffic loads it's a flawed system and why. what what they should have done was built on actually the

lessons learnt from trying them which is about boudin trust and confidence by the very community that you're seeking to work with so their problem at the time in twenty twelve was the increase in young people caught up in violent acts and what they should have done is built a relationship with young people not label young people as gangs applying the term gangs which would tell its own criminal definitions to young people in making them sound like they're they're all good liars groups of people who are perpetrating a particular crime for a particular end game was actually the wrong emphasis is the wrong analysis and didn't get to the root cause of what is going on with young people which is more to do with the lack of resources going over historic times austerity and the lights the decimation of the youth service defamation after school provision this is made to this image in jobs in the ability to get on in life decimation in the in the

lack of opportunities that young people have instead of looking at the indicators of in terms of the social indicators the effect in young people lack of support in terms of mental health and the inability really for this government to really address some of those problems in communities and also ensuring that the local authorities and other parties have the resources necessary to provide the multi-agency support to young people now what trident did back in the one nine hundred ninety s. was say the police have a lack of leadership in the black community we need to rebuild that relationship in order to solve this particular punish crime and as i say the what the police didn't learn was how you build trust and confidence with people in order to gather the intelligence in order to stop and prevent crime from occurring in the first place and this and certainly they were the vast. range of public sector would lead were let down and led. up the wrong alley with the police in the kitchen of

the use of gangs which meant that the government set up a whole fund in a round gangs the only piece of funding in town was gardens work out of the home office and all of a sudden a range of people said they would now experts went after this funding and what we have in twenty eighty now is the outcome of all of that investment all of that work which is simply nothing we have to pay the banks of into a new age and if there is a referendum on austerity as your leader calls it anyone to give a newspaper or watching a t.v. channel in this country would see you failed in london the people who obviously didn't like your going to policies because you didn't succeed at the local council elections in the past few days well the look i mean i i don't i don't recognise that narrative i think that that is the wrong way to come up this i think the reality is that labor actually increased and the government's own the share a vote that they gained at the snap it's not general elections last year which

would be the best result so now the narrative to get out there that that was the case but i can i have a look at the three i course it would mean a voluntary election would mean labor would have drawn and it's and was was why does everyone think you failed i can't account for how the mainstream media operate but clearly they're not operate on the basis of fact the fact reality is that labor's advance on the share of the votes since last year's snap election has in every year taken councils that we've never had before like plymouth and so on has made increases in areas that you need to win to win a general election south to swindon milton keynes south summit these avi's we made significant gains what i think the media has done is put a focus on on on on local authorities that we've never in the past had won a top westminster and so on and expected to win those two you're sure to johnson do . semitism in your party has caused in your votes without

a doubt the focus that there has been on semitism in the party and the focus in a portion in that very clearly to lay people as how did that make in effect in some parts of our electorate i mean particularly in parts where there were significant jewish is the focus on and the senate is moving your focus on what's being alleged in your mccarthyism we had mark wards with lifelong anti-racist campaigner on this show saying jeremy corbin's labor party is becoming a new mccarthy a party he was kind of than that he said that there's a siege germy gorgon at the moment by his parliamentary labor party but what exactly is going on in your body you're an inertial executive body the party has grown immensely we have six hundred thousand members the law it doesn't mean that they are through livingston jack an anchor our boards of laws is the largest party in western europe we have we attract people from a broad spectrum that reflects society the problem with anti semitism like racism

it is in society it hasn't gone away and therefore it is right that the party looks at itself with regards to i think or you know more boards with i mean he we went in stephen lawrence he was immensely important the campaign that got racial harassment was in this country between series you think he could bring the party more into disrepute and tony blair getting credit in what with with the tremendous work that he's done over many years in terms of the movement one at the same time cannot deny that the party has to address issues of anti semitism issues of race is there he's clearly already seen where it is even when you've got the powers of the mainstream media working together with big business working together with the political the elite they can in a sense demonize individuals in this way but can i just finish very briefly then on the fact that thousands were refused the ability to vote at the local elections.

what do you make of these idea checks that conservatives are running out and i think it's quite entirely wrong and discriminatory to really happen and i hope that it's not something that's going to be widespread. already across the country we've seen how well it works the system that we have in place we've seen people come out and vote no clean elections up and down this country and in every is blocked across the country we've seen people exercise their right to vote this is not about increasing the id checks he's not about increasing the percentage numbers of people who come out to vote this is about i mean the barrier to ensure that people actually don't exercise their right to democracy and i think that's well what about thank you after the break what was it like being a home office minister went to raise him a ramage we speak to norman baker about whether it should be the british prime minister who should have resigned in the past few days not secretary. from the news the weapons which are ones to watch in russia and use the lifting the bit of the

white helmets all the more coming over but to have going on the ground. war in remembrance of a marks a seventy third anniversary of victory in europe over fascism this is one of the most important dates on the russian calendar but can't be said of the europeans in america we discussed how that conflict continues to view of the world to this day. join me every thursday on the elec so i'm i'm sure i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics or business i'm show business. welcome back joining me now to go through some of the stories his book out of all the liberal democrat member of parliament lim bit who pick lembit we should all be wearing these st georges ribbons to commemorate the tens of millions who died for our freedom to be able to even have

a discussion like this in london given the russian war effort against the nazis but according to c.n.n. your first story the russians now want to kill us both why you're so anti russian action let's look at this look at the story c.n.n. russia's victory day parade weapons to watch what this is about whether they are our friends or not they are well armed they got new supersonic fighters they've got . aircraft north out answers or the russians say well what do you say that it's a bird side to say this is the military in the united states and russia wait wait a minute maybe it's a fact do they have anywhere but i'm telling you they've got a missile which goes at ten times the speed of sound can avoid being detected can go round missile batteries and so on now they've got new tanks they've got surface of missiles why are you looking so skeptical why is it so hard for you to believe in our c.n.n. thing which is believing the russians which is just this is just different government sources your the skeptic here i have no doubt that russia has the

capability to do this remember they are the only nation on earth who are currently providing human transportation to the international space station it's not that hard to believe this our defense sector gavin williamson was a ceramic tableware salesman but i think he knows a lot more about plate and played spin used as weapons than any of any of this anyway let's go to the murdoch times and show the united states in any war where iran probably would be involved where the european union russia or china would be against the united states with iran presumably but anyway want to know for balance i expect you to be as negative about this as you are about the russian story the times reports u s revise second fleet to block kremlin's atlantic operations now this is the other. side of the see saw the second fleet was dismantled or decommissioned seven years ago it had ninety thousand personnel something like one hundred thirty ships that peacenik a bomb or a game arguably but there's no doubt that trumps behind this one he's getting the second fleet going to keep the russians in their bought

a meaning that russia threatening russia this is not necessarily threatening they are patrolling the north atlantic in case there was north eruptions get a little bit ambitious i don't matt is that the senate appropriations committee today do you think he'll get money for this when they're closing libraries and schools and infrastructure in the united states without a doubt they're opening the headquarters i think in july certainly during the summer well gavin williams we don't only have him let's see the morning star of the great cabinet minister who did seem to appear to threaten to resign over bricks it in the past twenty four hours but here he is kind of failing in a mission that we are of course talking about boris johnson the political giant from the u.k. the morningstar reports johnston's effort to appeal to trump on fox news is too silly for words it looks like boris johnson concerned apparently about america walking away from the iran nuclear deal went on to fox television to give trump a piece of his mind i've been on fox and friends too so it is it worthwhile for

graham to be on maybe so but he didn't listen to you either did he and he's certainly not going to listen to boris on fox television this article goes on to say shouldn't have been on fox and friends it seems to imply he should have been talking to the israelis or really control policy u.s. policy in that area more tragedy expected on friday in gaza perhaps boris johnson should have gone to was jerusalem there isn't it the new u.s. embassy capital in jerusalem which kind of ties up to your next story let's go to this from gulf news in dubai yes this is the big story coming out of israel right now gulf news reports lebanon equals hezbollah after polls says israeli minister now the israeli minister in question is very junior one taliban. it's who has said that hizbollah and as far as he's concerned the lebanon is the same thing so he's going to visible a swept in southern lebanon the elections on sunday they're doing better than ever as winner is going to become one of the major players and they don't hizbollah to

they have gained political support in a democratic election i would point out that m.p.'s have i think that a terrorist organization according to the british well that's. right with britain in syria it is confusing isn't it and i guess i did states but what's more confusing is that israel wants to conflate a place with a movement now i think this is one of the great frustrations i've got people mix up religion with israel there's a certain symmetry to this which is way wrong you cannot simply equal a place with a political movement although israel invaded lebanon time and time again and has been invading syria yeah and this is in my view a precursor to more military action it's an excuse for what they say that is middle east middle east i should just say you know on twitter james the missouri or at least someone claiming to be him the founder of the white helmets of or british soldier has been tweeting a whole bunch at the moment about this but we have no real confirmation let's go to

it this story is shrouded in mystery middle east i reports u.s. freezes funding for serious white helmets that's as of the sultan rip widely reported and no actual confirmation certainly britain has been supporting the british taxpayer we're talking about tens of millions up to two hundred billion dollars in this i was looking through the story there's no clear explanation why this is happening because of all speculations the white helmets have been accused of some very sharp practice in the past i have to stress this allegedly it's alleged it was oscar at the hollywood awards and in the world for his own real about them didn't set a very high bar in terms of cinema talk the talk of fame but. that was a political judgment we don't know why the freeze is going on here perhaps the white helmets and i being investigated by some of their allies would be the first time when our lives become either enemies or persona non-grata than ever thank you . well for geopolitical power plays to music

and working for tourism a before we play a track from his new album staying blue i'm joined by recording artist and former u.k. home office minister norman begun on thanks for coming back on the show so tell me about the new album solo album i don't know whether you've broken up the band the band still growing we're playing next month and see if it is a matter of fact and you saw six but now i want to do something different i want to try and break away from the same old i've had with the previous two albums with the band this is me a chance to have a lot of different cements on trumpet accordion violin all sorts of different instruments and a bit more focus more blues but more jazz. you can just lazy music journalism that immediately there was a track called shipping for us going to play it at the end people are going to saying you're influenced by blue more than other. by the shipping forecast which is a great british and i love the shipping forecast as a certain poetry to it if you're the around the world is a completely useless minutes on. a day by day to radio which is being

overtaken by g.p.s. i would have again it's there and it tells you whether it's what the cables are large i don't know how strong the wind is no and everything else about areas from britain divided up by geographical areas with wonderful dames like north of zero south so euro and so on and listen to it when you're trying to go to sleep at night it's actually quite poetic so this is a kind of him to the shipping forecast i have to say agree to a certain extent but if tolerance and even acceptance is part of englishness and this album with titles like shipping for gabby war english what did you make of this. when drugs scandal that that to the resignation of trays of his own secretary the lib dems moderates it believe it or not is called out of hand so you are in the you in the home office when i was in the home office after she started a hostile environment but that it was indiscriminate the objective was to stop many people as possible coming into the country and to get rid of as many people as

possible out of the country unless they had even if they had the right to stay it seems so you would have the minds of a people that people had lots of money were allowed in the country so it was immoral in my view is based on money rather than on right to be here and because the moderation targets were difficult to meet because the e.u. migration couldn't be controlled the tories set the target to number of days some were shining you can't control that was it right that amber road resigned she had to in the end not because of what she inherited because the hostile environment and when bush problems were forgeries and may she's the one responsible but amber rudd failed to get a handle on it going to grip on it she said not to read her papers she's done away for targets of being set by the home office and which weren't being set so she had to resign i think for mismanagement rather than for malevolence which is one of the reason mail i mean there were targets for the number of people to be deported there were targets for how many people would be arrested well this is ludicrous i mean what are the police do or the immigration people do we have

a lot of people arrested this week let's address some more that's got lots of what the round up the usual suspects yeah that's all over the country should work but then there was an overload of leaking is this story mounted because it was dres it may express a full confidence in the home secretary and borrowed before she resigned as this is what as they always do takes the civil service why have they been leaking against the home office they are not happy bunch they want to have a bunch when you are that well the home office civil servants were under the cosh they were directed what to do by the special advisers nick timothy and his colleagues working for the reason may they really have a little independence which is a demand is gone you know and of course there was none pleasant place to work are over i'll call them civil servants and. in that opinion on something they were astonished i want to visit opinion but wasn't aware their home office worked so and then start to blame the civil service well i mean ultimately the politicians have to take the blame and the civil service would like that and i suppose the leaks are the consequence a bit rich for the labor party to be talking about this issue is only corbin jimmy

goldman drama going all day and we have the labor m.p.'s voted against a twenty fourteen immigration bill if it could be all these people voted for it really a party was nothing to be proud up in this regard and they mishandled it during the brown and blair governments but they were part of a desperate not to be seen to be quote soft on crime and therefore what they did was become even more extreme than the conservative party so if you look at the votes not just on immigration issues but on a whole range of matters to do with civil liberties organized crime to the right of tourism in the recent series of me and i fight in government looking for allies who are going to adopt a moderate approach they work in the labor party they were actually some of the ones the tory benches the labor party was way off to the white including for example on drugs if you were with bottom line portfolio similarly if you want to find a party to cut the health service they're part of a cut the health service could get away with it because they're perceived to be different to the health service the tories can't touch a health service showing the curious position that there was on the right can

actually do matters which are would follow policies which damage right wing causes known to the left damage left because of the not the other way round when you said a case of rational evidence based policy being in short supply. would you say to raise i'm a wasn't interested in evidence he was running the department that you work for as she was less interest of evidence and she should have been you have to understand that the tory party to be in particular were led by the daily mail what do you feel wanted was for the conservatives to live in the home office you have to believe me i mean this is the paper that was in her in her office on her desk that's what happened all the time her special advisers would speak to daily mail and see what they want to do with reason may still doubts but when. things about the daily mail and other newspapers is that anyone who questions why the ministry of defense is david kelly died is considered a conspiracy case you've written a book on it is again in the news because of another book on it you still think there are unanswered questions yet he was the u.n.

weapons inspector and he had severe doubts about the fact that the government was using intelligence in a way that was designed to produce political advantage in other words he was checking out the door to dodgy dossier in two thousand and three just advocates of weapons of mass destruction with saddam hussein when there were no such weapons and david kelly had doubts about that so i don't of course he was found dead in suspicious circumstances in the wood or not with you and by the way fifteen years on has been knowing questions about death which is a appalling indictment of how this country of the dangers will eventually be released but on the other hand you are in favor of the establishment view over the script palls the disappearance i should say now so again script while we've been trying to get hold of them no one can you believe that this is an order from moscow and we need more facts of course to know definitively what happened but what i would say is that you know if you want to assassinate someone whether you were the british they or the russians to you or somebody else or just a member the public really you can do so by very easy means which is you know by.

refraining from say we're not condoning any of these. but the point is to use this particular method and it does seem to it's a particular chemical which is quite rare in russia in origin suggests that there was a signature attached to this either so if you're seeing this russian in a. particular method of assassination it's going to be that somebody wants to make a point you should not make it a station no maker thank you but before we play a clip from his new song shipping forecast we'll be back on saturday with analysis of today's pm q argument as well as award winning filmmaker and author of the world of war tale of downing about his new book on how close the world was to ending on ninth of november one thousand nine hundred three until then he touched. that's why social media was he was at a thirty seven years in the day of the death of the most wanted man in northern ireland francis hughes terrorist a freedom fighter depending on which side you're on. plays. a.

story. i. believe that sees. people. who are deep seated or seeing the same things i would say i'm not american but americans really. world war two cures the depression carsley times traces concerned prosperity of

course from store. for the for us the whole world what it what and. historical rewrite ever since world war two to foment the cold war against russia against communism and. socialists nish bush. the soviets all made out just a swath of. world war two has been the story credibly by the anglo-american media and that's because they wanted to meet. the rule russia. installing new actually.

russia celebrates victory day marking seventy three years since the end of the second world war with a firework display ending a day of spectacular military parades. the sea of people swept through moscow taking part in the immortal regiment march remembering relatives who died fighting what russians call the great patriotic war plus. a cia veteran is thrown out of the confirmation hearing for donald trump as the new agency chief amid protests over her alleged involvement in torturing prisoners.