on the welcome to worlds apart israel has long contended that that security compels it to go to much greater lengths than other countries may be willing to capable of but with the killing of dozens and injuring of thousands of palestinians in just one day the security argument gets a laugh and less sympathy abroad except perhaps in the united states does israel still care about how its actions are perceived anywhere but in the white house well to discuss that i'm now joined by dori gold the president of the jerusalem center for public affairs and former adviser to israeli prime minister ariel sharon benjamin netanyahu and knesset it's great to talk to you today thank you very much for your time my pleasure now i know you were greatly overjoyed by the americans deciding to move their embassy to jerusalem is there anything else that you would like the trumpet administration to do on the israeli palestinian track well right now the administration is considering a new initiative

a new peace initiative. and i we have to give them time to finish their work and and put this on the table well ambassador the reason i'm asking is because i've heard some american commentators including tom friedman of the new york times suggest that trump has wasted one of the best cars he have instead of using it as leverage with both the government and the palestinians he just gave god baby away for free i'm quoting mr friedman here do you agree with that reasoning well i think that's a very narrow perspective of how diplomacy works. you know we don't have to pay for everything we do in negotiations and in national. discourse. the fact of the matter is countries decide where their capital is you you know. one point had its capitol in st petersburg and then it

moved its capital much to moscow we had a capital always in jerusalem. and that's a fact now whether the united states puts its embassy. in tel aviv or jerusalem what a decision the united states can make but as a matter of fact jerusalem is functioning already as a capital for many years a new ambassador comes to israel where does he present his credentials in tel aviv or in jerusalem in jerusalem where all the offices of all the ministries located in jerusalem is only a question of reality catching up rather than anything that ambassador rebuilding respect israel has long claimed that it's secure just situation is a special case specifically because of a long running conflict so let's not treat that the issue of jerusalem in the same way you would trade you know where those states place that capitals and by the way

on the or russia argument i can tell you that the russians trays that historic routes to key of but i'm sure it's a real would not endorse russia deciding to you know take hold of that city what do you well you know you have now a country called ukraine and it has a capital in kiev and you know we're not making recommendations that countries invade their neighbors and take over their capitals so no but jerusalem has always been our capital and the united nations failed in trying to produce an international solution to jerusalem back in one nine hundred forty seven and one nine hundred forty eight you might remember that in the first arab israeli war we were invaded holy sites were destroyed we had about fifty five synagogues in the old city of jerusalem that were either desecrated or was smashed and we were in a very do. called situation that our entire jewish community in the old city where

we have had a majority since the mid one nine hundred century it was ethnically cleansed so who's going to take care of jerusalem us or come us you have to make a decision and it's clear that we will protect the holy sites of all the great faiths christianity judaism and islam ok well ambassador i know that even before the the embassy a democrat embassy was moved to jerusalem you gave a number of public talks including one in front of the u.s. congress on the beach here laid out the the case for the historic connection of jews to the holy city and i don't think there are many people around the world who actually doubt that historic connection but the question is whether the jewish ties to jerusalem should. supersede or even deny the palestinian or muslim ties to that city what's your take on that because please do not talk about the protection of the of all of the holy sites we also need access to the holy sites and palestinians first and foremost also want access to their holy sites without

intervention or you know good will of israel and the question well if you visit the temple to what the palestinians call the harm of sharif on a friday for friday prayers you see the place is packed there's no limitation palestinians coming to their holy sites in jerusalem only when the area was under it was jordanian rule at the time but it was under arab rule suddenly you found the jews could no longer go to the western wall you found. synagogues that had been there since the thirteenth century were either destroyed or there was no effort to true fix them up we protect holy sites there is a real problem of holy sites across the middle east look at what diaries has been doing in syria and in iraq. this is not the question i was asking you if you want

to be more specific let me rephrase that how do you take the issue of the palestinian claims and the palestinian after ations to have their capital of their future state in as jerusalem well frankly jerusalem has been the capital of the jewish people for three thousand years and i think that is our motivating principle now if muslims want to have freedom of religious access to have their you know their culture expressed in jerusalem we have no problem with that but we are very aware that only a free and democratic israel will protect jerusalem for all the great faiths well you may be sure about that as you can be but they can't they the question is not about only exercising your religious rights but also exercising your sovereign state rights and the question is again that if the palestinians want to have that capital in israel some in the international community promised them or at least

them presented that hold back and nine hundred sixty seven do you think that hope should be realized well enough i have been an israeli diplomat i'm not a palestinian diplomat and therefore i'm not going to become an advocate for their cause but i do believe that this issue of the security of the holy sites is extremely important for everyone to be cognizant of you know ever since the taliban blew up buddhist statues in the balmy and valley in afghanistan back in the year two thousand we have seen that the holy sites of all the religions have come under attack a great coptic cathedral in xandra in the last number of years was attacked by diet and by other organizations and these organizations are interlinked they're all part of the muslim brotherhood network something which russian analysts are very familiar with. absolutely but the russian analysts do not associate the entire

palestinian people with any of the network that you you just mentioned you said before that you do not represent the palestinians and last week i had a chance to talk to say barack and the former chief negotiator for the palestinian authority and he was very clear that they perceive the moving of the embassy to jerusalem as a symbolic act and the what how they interpreted that symbolism as the united states fully dispensing with the role of mediator and they're not going to take the united states as such because the united states itself showed that it has no intention of being a neutral party and now do you think it's a real bad offense for the trump administration effectively excluding itself from any potential talks between you and the palestinians i think that. i think that israel benefits from the united states expressing a fair position for too many years our positions have been ignored in places like

the united nations there has been a discriminatory effort by many countries. to move against the state of israel as i said before completely completely without justification so i think what president trump is that and he's corrected a tremendous distortion that has existed in large parts of the international community now you know how this works i was the ambassador of the united nations of the state of israel and that's this was in the late one nine hundred ninety s. and i saw if let's say mr arcot and his palestinian representative at the u.n. come up with an idea they go to the they convene the arab group of countries the arab bloc at the u.n. and they automatically get you know whatever it is twenty two countries to go along with their initiative then that goes to the islamic group and you get attached to that also. indonesia malaysia and pakistan

that moves up to the nonaligned movement nam countries that bloc goes up to one hundred forty countries so without even batting an eyelash the palestinians can recruit one hundred fifty countries out of one hundred ninety plus countries at the u.n. that is not because of the justice of their position that isn't because so much of the world recognizes the palestinian claim to jerusalem i think most people in the world recognize frankly the arjun's the biblical origins of israel they recognize the fact that king david made this our capital and therefore we believe that what president trump did in recognizing jerusalem as our capital and then plus moving the u.s. embassy reflects i think what's in the deep emotions of many peoples around the world well ambassador middle due respect that jerusalem is also referenced in the koran as the as the side of prophet muhammad's ascension saying no no no no no you

of making a mistake jerusalem does not appear in the koran the nocturnal visit of the. that moment does appear but it doesn't say where he's going and later interpretation it's commonly accepted says that's true so but there is no explicit reference well ambassador hold that thought bill const trade back to it after a short break statement. in some american cities the police have built themselves cling to refutation of people who walk on the streets of the united states who are at risk from the very

people who are supposed to protect that poor people are no more afraid of the police than of a criminal so. you can see something happening this is like i don't want to call the cops let that happen resident call the cops in those young black men lose their lives chasing the with their fingers on the trigger you never know better safe than sorry i don't know that someone else is going to the gun so yes unfortunately around and around here we end up killing our guns a good distance from such precocious place to. welcome back to worlds apart bit by what he called the president on the jerusalem saturday for public affairs and after just before the break you were talking how

the palestinians have cost the mullahs call laughing all the muslim countries what to get what they want that they unite. nation's and russia is not a predominantly muslim country moreover russians rarely criticize their country's security actions particular way it when it comes to israel because i think with israel we have a lot of similar security challenges but even here i can tell you israel's security argument is very quickly losing its relevance that massacre on may fourteenth with dozens killed and thousands injured shocked many people here and you know better than i do that the russians are not particularly faint hearted when it comes to the use of force what i want to ask you is whether you worry at all about how your country is being perceived internationally and based make it point to pointless cruelty it. gets associated with israel more and more well first

of all i totally disagree with your characterizations of israel those who know the middle east understand that the decision to bring tens of thousands of palestinian marchers to our border and threaten to actually go inside of israel after taking over taking control of the gaza israel border is the work of hamas the palestinians have admitted that if you review their statements so you know the question is does a country like israel have a right to protect its border its internationally recognized border if you say no it doesn't then you you will be exposed your administration specifically denies having them they never specify where the border is but you just said that the the if these people were threatening to storm deface they they found they've never did

that they're absolutely did do that and their. organization said clearly its goal was to storm the border and moon. into israel itself the you know there are dozens of appearances inside of the. hamas websites and facebook pages talking about well it's only about twelve minutes from the border to an israeli city you can get there now i'm not going to associate the entire police thing in people of i think many of the protesters there were peaceful were unarmed there are many on three children who were killed by your security forces there's one eight month old baby you think that baby also was you know the the militant for who brings a one month old baby to a area where there's conflict going on that it's not up to the israel to may have to pass a judgment on that those people were within their own tent territory and you think it's ok if come us decides to bring palestinian people right up to the border of

israel in a conflict zone i think that's dangerous i think it's a huge mistake and they're responsible for the mess they've created let me ask you a question that i think you somebody with the great knowledge for for religious tax is a basket position to answer i think the story of life is that every david runs a risk of turning into goliah becoming the perpetrator of the abuses that he once suffered from it's both a religious and a philosophical question but do you think this is something relevant for israel to consider israel does when it's necessary to protect itself but israel does what's also necessary to minimize to minimize civilian casualties in any kind of attack you know i was asked to debate the famous south african judge richard goldstone and we had a debate of brando's university and when we did i very carefully looked at israel's

military tactics in gaza and how it goes about its military campaigns. and i'll tell you something that israel does and i'm certain the russian army doesn't do this and i'd be surprised if the american army does this if we have information that somebody is storing iranian missiles in a house in the gaz a strip and we're in the middle of a of a full scale conflict and we have a legal right under international law to destroy that house because it has become a place where munitions are hidden we have our intelligence branch with its arabic speaking officers call the house where those missiles are stored and we tell the owner of that house your house we know has hamas munitions has the iranian rockets and we will destroy that house in about seven to ten minutes and you have to basically leave the house now that crime didn't ask you about your tactics with

iran i mean in fact i do want to discuss we were talking about the killing of more than sixty people in one day and injuring twenty seven hundred and if you want to tell me that this was a show off restraint i think the most of the international community would be guy listen what they stand would disagree about the well what i am trying to say the you is that we go through we use extreme efforts to try and protect. civilians in an armed conflict now what do you do what do you do when your opposition when your military when your adversary is bringing his civilians to the front line i can't tell you i can tell you what well what other countries would do the situation arrest them if you see people scaling to found a resident there your army is well equipped it's well trade it can handle that situation or rather than shooting live bullets into the air and killing scores of

people well we do what's necessary to protect ourselves and it's very hard for people sitting in studios to judge exactly the a security threat that our people face i don't know of any country that goes to the mix the effort the state of israel makes in the i.d.f. it somehow makes of actually issuing warnings to people that their home became a legitimate military target and if that is the philosophy underlying our military strategy back in two thousand and nine you can be certain that's our philosophy today minimize civilian casualties but we're going up against a terrorist organization you deal with terrorists in the trance caucuses you don't know that they will try and challenge your army with every technique in the book to try and use your points of weak this to try and use your western sentiments in order that they can improve their position in public relations against you that's

what our adversaries do you should learn from us and not criticize us while you felt let's say people call asin the center of grozny and there are some well known terrorists but then them i really hope that the russian army will not roll out tanks and sure that those people because you have an agile you're always in your talks ex stalled the israel superiority technicolor creative innovative superiority well perhaps you can work with your in. teligent better maybe you can come up with some other fans protected protective techniques but not shoot people point blank that's that's my point where you're trying to express this in the most extreme of terms you know i just spent a week with a gentleman that you should actually having your show his name is colonel richard kemp is a commander of british forces in afghanistan when the british were deployed there he also fought in northern ireland and he also fought in the balkans and you know

kemp has said at the united nations and in a variety of appearances having analyzed what israel is facing the choices the israeli army has to make these really army is the most moral army in the world now you can try and find some anti israel people on the b.b.c. or other networks who will say the exact opposite but i go and i get a british officer who has been in our positions who has seen close up what's going on in the can examine the trade offs and he says where the most moral army in the world i would accept that judgment going back to the iranian question. if i had to study your initial position correctly you didn't actually won they'd j.c.b. zero eight to be celt you wanted it to be negotiated. how does it make you failed this to know about the trumpet ministration the temp administrator has just abandoned it frankly j c p oh it was one of the worst arms control agreements

ever reached by the west but the west with the russians and the chinese it was a disaster and i think the iranian nuclear program is not just a problem for israel it's not just a problem for the americans it's a problem for the security of the of the russian federation as well i have for some reason the russian federation does want that this agreement to be at a palace of perhaps it's and to stay. ending up its own security interest is a bit different from yours but. i'm sure you're heard that the u.s. secretary of state mike compare has just issued this very extensive fleeced of demands on iran which some analysts have already described as a grab bag of wishful thinking without how to use strategy what's your take on it you know many people said you know the iranians don't want to develop nuclear weapons that's a western myth because you know why because ayatollah ali khamenei he issued

a fatwa back a number a number of years ago saying that it's a violation of his law mccloskey develop nuclear weapons you know what i hired a persian language team and we went through ayatollah ali khamenei his website there is no nuclear file. and now what we've learned from materials that israeli intelligence sources have taken out of terror there was a real nuclear weapons program we even know something very specific we know that there is a a in iranian missile called the shah three we know from the international atomic energy and from the documents that israel retrieved out of terror and that the iranians had a program to take the conventional warhead out of the shop through that can reach israel and put in a nuclear device now what is that is that that's a program for peace no the iranians were after nuclear weapons and we have to be

aware that and we have to have very firm measures put in place to inspect on the ground what the iranians are up to i just want to remind our viewers that you represent a country that is widely believed to have those nuclear weapons though it has never declared them but putting that aside back to the idea of how you actually make iran comply with those demands provided that it doesn't. issue yes sir statement tomorrow how do you expect it to be compiled to do what the united states wants it to do well i think secretary of state pump aoe has said very clearly that they will face some of the most severe sanctions in history until they come clean on their nuclear weapons program they have had chance after chance you are not talking about some disagreement about a you know colonial border from fifty years ago we're talking about nuclear weapons

we're talking about a country iran's which believes that it has a right to take over neighboring states in the middle east we have to rein in troops on the ground in lebanon in syria of course and in iraq we have a rainy ends involved in yemen we now have new information at the iranians are trying to get into the conflict in the western sahara they are spreading all over the middle east it is extremely dangerous. and part of what secretary pumpin spoke about is that iraq has to pull back from these regional conflicts i think then we can talk about moving to a much more secure and safe middle east a short while ago i had a chance to talk to the obama administration's official who was in charge of the j.c.b. oil implementation and he made the point that unlike prior to the j.c.b. oil the trump ministration is highly unlikely to secure the broad recognition the

broad implementation of sanctions against iran it will either be alone or with some and consequential allies allies who do not have extensive trade with iran doesn't matter in your view at all well i mean one of the choices that everyone's going to have to make in the future is whether the united states will use secondary sanctions against those who decide that they want to trade with iran you're going to have countries facing a choice they can do business with a red they can sell books well guinn's or they can sell renault cars to iran but then they can sell them to the united states and i think the american market is preferable to the iranian market for many european countries a list but i'm betting it's not all about money i assume what matters to the europeans are the values and having negotiated that the agreement in good faith i hope they won't be able to throw it out then stand next to president trump without any qualms do you think values even matter in something like that most important

values the value of security the iranians with been involved repeated terror attacks inside of europe in berlin ambassador that has never been documented this is an israeli line of argument but i want to remind you that it is the israeli security forces that have targeted and assassinated the iranian scientists iran's repeatedly baum's countries without any concern for their sovereignty so. well let's not exaggerate that too much ok i don't think we're exaggerating here i think if you go to the german court records in berlin you'll find a great deal about iranian activity within germany i think if you look at who assassinated a former prime minister shot poor but are of iran's in paris it was according to french sources the iranians if you go to argentinian courts and

you look at who destroyed not only in the israeli embassy but also the jewish community center in buenos aires killing dozens of people it was the iran and it was supported by the highest levels of the iranian government so we have that documented in official records of a variety of countries well and us today we could have continued that conversation for a very long time but unfortunately we have to leave it there really really appreciate your time and your passion about the subject and i also encourage our viewers to keep the conversation going in our social media pages as for me hope to see you again same place same time here on all the hard. part.

our senses did a remarkable job of keeping humans alive for a million years in terms of being able to hear see taste feel but now says the algorithms in the machines of the robots have evolved past humans capabilities to see more here more understand more feel more we as humans have to prepare for the fact that we are now becoming extinct. global was telling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings peace to the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battles that still. produce offspring to tell you that gossip and tabloids are filed for the most important day. off and tell me you are not cool enough and that's to buy their products. all the

hawks for me along with all the one. minute job in the world with me and now everything is being turned into a massive cloud of dust the headlines this hour a series of thunderous explosions and a sign of goodwill on our team is in north korea's remote and mountainous northeast to witness the closing ceremony the country's only known nuclear test site. says donald trump cancels what was supposed to be in historic summit with north korea's kim jong il and next month. the president keeps praise on russia as he joins me put him at the international economic forum in st petersburg. and russia rejects the latest finding.