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hello welcome to me until i'm sophie shevardnadze the cataloging crisis and spain is back in the spotlight again after local elections and separatist victory searing another independence push what is left reads next moves and what does it all mean for europe will i ask spain's former foreign minister may get. reeling from a catalan secession catastrophe madrid is watching over the rest of the provinces where independence voice is still ringing loud despite a crackdown on separatist leaders will the new kind of government continue on a course of confrontation on the spanish prime minister afford to restore catalan autonomy and how does this impact on the rest of europe. he laughing when i think us thank you very much for being our guest today it's a pleasure well it's a brother of mine all right so want to start with because it's back in the spotlight again the new capital and. leader mr torres very pro independence and he

offered dialogue to spanish prime minister he wants madrid to return the autonomy to catalonia and stop direct rule from it i mean what are the chances while qatar or the hispanics will be our always a spain i mean we have a very mild say advance of the nomic system in a spin particularly affair that out of state people don't want of advancement on the spanish quarter to show high given to the cut outs and to all citizens of spain . i mean you mentioned dialogue i mean they always talk but we didn't. do a national although i mean you have to talk to respect the spanish prostitution to the spread the spanish law and then you can offer a dialogue everybody's him. but they have to respect the legal system and the bad news is this new representative for that he's been appointed president of

generally thought of this bunch of regional autonomy is not really as stupid as to go in the right direction so we have to see how things evolve and how we can correct this dialogue that's absolutely necessary but respected the national spanish law so let's go point by point the ruling party saying that if they give catalan back their autonomy that would mean that they will jump right in to the new independence not do not during the spanish. socialist government was form part of this government and we gave to the cut a lot of strenuous start to was very advanced even recognized. because our nation unfortunately the conservative party the one who is now governing the spain consider that these advances. that there was not constitutional and they make

an appeal at the cost of different courts in the spain that reject the start to that this challenge government give to look at that and i think it's one of the options i think at the end of this to give autonomy fact the turning back because i mean within the spanish court situation we have means and ways to agree to understand the needs of certain specifically for the qatari nobody denied that but you have to respect the law the question is you said is one of the options to give back the time and do not fear the same thing as the ruling party here is that if the autonomy is given that. they will push for the referendum one more time and referendum they have the right i mean out there cover to me were not given the article one fifty five is so only a certain issue because they are not respected in certain elements of the law but the tanami is that we didn't cut the autonomy of the cutter that's the question that that we can improve their autonomy that's what they're asking for but that's

of the improving not only the socialist party or the majority of us by not fighting for a while all the seed is to be independent there will not be a cut out a state that's for sure so the question how we accommodate the nationalities view the nationality details of the land within. much or let's say a van choked on i mean for the cutter lands in the region i mean international of course you do for an hour or two over spain so improved autonomy as you put it. we are understand that if catalonia gets improved autonomy that is actually going to cause a chain reaction. two other communities in spain no really i mean the basque are where dissatisfied. remember that bass was to be independent now they are slim shut israel with the system they are very fiscal policy and i was here the other after

to try to you mentioned the basques and he says that nothing is going to happen because the bass are really happy and it's true because they're in charge of their own finances and and the end of the day that's what initially catalans wanted they wanted to the in charge of their own finances so why give the rights the basque but not to the catalan because the catalan in one hundred seventy five renault nj people doesn't know that they want to work out what that was their new constitution they offer the same treatment to biased and cutter that. to the boss to say ok you have fiscal policy you are all tournaments in fiscal offer but you take if you have a deficit in transport or you have a different reason trial or you have a future depression or you have to pay your past the cutter and say no cover car i want to have a special trip but the central government has to pay my deficit so now they are a claim and they say out we were wrong we want the same treatment of the basque but

what they have didn't work it can't be done it can be negotiate they have no problem with that have to be of course i'm honest with the general community so respond is to respond these regions but people say well we are treated badly the cattle are just not to cut down and choose this way and they will make a run at first but. for they don't get the world or basket world at the time were ready to take and now they are of course claiming that they have to have a better treatment but you know that is a very nationalistic attitude catalan leader torres says directly right now that he wants to bring former calderon leader preacher man back to office i mean that's in part. well because the demand is being accused of rebellion do you think you have enough leverage and pressure on the trade to actually bring which puts them on those guys back to the wherever possible we are waiting for the german german colter to the site. will be extradited to to. just

i just. to see what the just as some would say about him he has cape. viola doro and then let's say a german court says he's not guilty do you think it's possible either he acts or comes back and you know goes back to you carol my as i think if it's come back to spend he would be a judge that's in who would be i suppose he would be arrested and brought into to justice so yes that the the spanish model his astonishment as a unitary state for a federal government is actually perfect people from the outside who follow the news would argue differently there was only a minute asco the basque. and i was young i asked us how many experts in international law and people who countries spent to a starter the spanish model. i'm allowed to cut around that has been and is

a trend a wrong trend the majority of the people consider that will have a quad to table double system for integrated differences and astronaut is to you my question was some a little different do you maybe because everything needs an update sometimes constitutions need an update to sing maybe could be revised to be one federal like germany or switzerland or unite javert going to go to the socialist party for a chauffeur to of course a different reform of the spanish prostitution that is a commission in the parliament and we are going to open a debate with everybody and they've had the end of the negotiation that have consensual story form i have not. only problem about the spine is for the state. my personality but they have to be. negotiated discussed on the spine is low on the spine the shoulder that at the end that is

a concern sure why not so there is no problem about that but up to be done in a positive in a normal and i would say. in intention to really keep what already is a walk in world so when the referendum happened to crack down from the center for madrid was very tough they were very clear that they did not want anything like that to happen in that country so now when you talk about maybe compromise may be given more autonomy maybe the maybe has been the position of socialist party to try to engage in normal by iraq with them what happened is for and there was some some of they had been a lot of fake news of a fake image that had the most people who were hard there was not the right shot there has been a lot of money palatial what happened this first of october but that these new way

to inform the people it is true that there was some. truth to her of the sick could do for to. proportion a proportionate but the question that it was illegal. and i think. the main main point though although see that you can engage with did the. spine is legal framework and you would see my question was. something that different because madrid was so tough on this reference men were not short. there was also the has been the idea in britain for sharm international media that the workshop there were not i mean it was of value lately. you know the legal order they had been varied but these referenda was illegal there was no basically there was another crack down dollars and the crowd is what i told you the houses were fake ema cheese that has not been happening in carpenter you know about nor as of the level of

people you are asking me so there was a powerful respond but no shot that if it was a powerful response no time no stop not so time none of. that if they were actually going to want one hundred dollars and i don't blog you have to be powerful you know i'm not this this is you know that i know you don't let me finish my question it's about something very different because it was not tough but a little bit tough the crackdown do you think now they can keep you know given something to compromise because it seems like you know they're very firm like you are very firm about the position of madrid do you feel like if they compromise now they will lose face in front of their voters maybe you know the president the government has been rusk or ganesha without either a full service part there with all the leader of our party and they said well he offered diallo but we didn't the international the national not of course to to

show ready to respect the you know i think that that all can be open and so we hope that he would be the offshore and that they are accepted by this independent this and that we can engage in this and design to moratinos will take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to media and latinos saying former foreign minister stay with us. fifty years ago pregnant women to come together as a sleeping pill and just this is what i believe because i like to just said this thought the side effects what terrible but not on the road as shown in dodge one

for boardwalk here not that warm. across europe victims omitting legal battles demanding at least some compensation. in two ways first will the physical damage itself as well that the constant reminder that the people who actually perpetrated this crime has never been able to justice and there has been a couple. in some american cities the police simply themselves cling to reputation people who walk on the streets of the united states who are at risk from the very people who are supposed to protect that poor people are no more afraid of the police than of criminals. who can see something happening and this is like i don't want to call the cops let that happen rather than call the cops in those young black men lose their lives chasing

the with their fingers on the trigger you never know better safe than sorry i don't know that someone else is going to pull a gun so. unfortunately around and around here we end up going our guns off the death toll from such precautions place to be like within a week. we're back with me and. spain's former foreign minister jim wright interest so i want to talk about use reaction to what was going on as they did they were in parable to cotland beat for independence and they sent signals to discourage it right away and

now you mentioned the german car to european courts or stalling the process of the extradition of the catalan leaders while we are waiting for what the justice of germany are going to decide will have to respect that whatever decision is going to be taken with being respected we have no problem and with european colleagues and european partners european countries they send various traumas said they be single recognition i remember. they declare. independence i wrote an article most of. the title was social thirtieth three. that means i. was so awful that. there were three countries. one color only declared up and there was little state in the world that nobody recognized and of course european members they're not going to recognize got donya

so within the european union there could be some transfer petition of the people of partition of some parliament but national state there will be no possibility for you know to integrate or to have any relation with the e.u. institutions so you're absolutely right that catalan conflict has implications beyond the spanish border i'm talking about the western balkans because cost of us beat to join the you can advance any further because pain will never recognize it probably fearing the capital and like you said do you see any kind of scenario where spain may change position on cost of the of the keep its position on on capital. you know i was foreign minister of spain during the seven years and i have tremendous pressure from some european countries from united states from some battle cunt countries to recognize course i never that's you know cannot imagine

how much i have to defend the spanish position because i knew was such a bad president and i think russian federation understood that the old saw kosovo is the example hard to should not be abided accepted in this kind of recognition you know up throughout the kurdish are independent joe d.-i mistaken international law i said from the beginning and i think that would be the policy front especially if that is a negotiation between belgrade and pristina and they come mostly in a peaceful and agreed. settlement was fain would record my child would recognize but these lover i'm proud when i checked senate slovak decided to separate them so bitterly in agreement spent on recognize what we cannot go and to accept if you need a lateral the creation of independence that's what has happened in kosovo if that

is the beginning and the nightmare that we are affecting the whole international law let's start in general about e.u. enlargement. french press and the consing should not be enlarging any further. because it weakens europe now montenegro and serbia hope to become members by twenty twenty five what do your take should be enlarging and take you now agree on that is going now too we are coming to the hour of truth we kind of continue over this. from a process that is not clear objective for what kind of europe we are looking for we want to have our. blood. areal free trade a space like some countries in distant and central european to retore wants or we want to have our strong into great chocolate national jur up that can be

a real actor in the new world of twenty first century and that is going to happen in the next year i think that is the project that denmark ron and mrs merkel and spain and all those we try to to defend the old europe is going to credit the new drop and we had you know on. the larchmont process in two thousand and four we have turned your members for coming from the baltic from eeprom eastern area from eastern european areas and then well we started to then but and then will have the balcony perspective there will be welcome but if they are world from the have to fulfill the whole principle like that you cannot be member of european union like hungary or like poland the states and go to brussels to cut the money the resources and then when there is refugees

and you have to troll with no immigration you have to show off all the details said no it's not my business is not my european union so sometimes you look to brush over for money and sometimes you look to the atlantic to washington for the strategy alliance not that's kind of either you are of your opinion or you now in full extent all do are not you're ugly and they're large been there is a problem of integration of whoever right now is already member and like ron says you know in order to be integrated the way i see it is we need to have like. a bit more tight union with common budget common finance chief and then there is this whole idea to speed your. of people of some members to want to fully integrate they need to like catch up faster and you know those who want to do it slower than they are welcome and you can you know divide europe into two parts to think that's a viable thing right now well i think we are going to go into this path i mean to

say i will say it would be to a spirit to espie the drop. already in the new virtual assistant virtually of rome treaty that she or there was a paragraph that say well we could advance had different rhythm members that can go further another day will. lag behind so. the world situation today cannot allow to have a discussion of minimum a common denominator i mean you cannot come in for east and also have a clear position on europe about the middle east and you have four countries that go and break you know the common position of europe going torches to the opening of u.s. embassy in jerusalem and i'm like that because they considered that while they have their own national policy it will go on national potential if you are not part. of a stronger do nighties europe countries that want to go the slime that are much

welcome counted as they prefer to mount their days a global attitude to go dark it too but they have no serious commitment towards european the first and european policy should decide by themselves everybody is welcome but everybody have to be you know. obliged to all respect to the treaties so before that happens and before there is actual to speak here of what we have right now is one speed europe. and very large here a skeptic movement and you know if there. are people who have exactly the opposing views of yours and they actually go to the party you know and like a lot of european countries see the rise of those parties their exact some or all things e.g. right now this people are being ignored you know they're like whatever if you know one of the european you don't have to but they're actually european do you think

this continued ignoring of this part of electorate could blow up now there not been or there has been in the selection and the whole of europe has been the one who will contest the majority of the. public opinion look at what happened in france mrs. le pen lost the election due to the european engagement of mr mccrone the debate was for one day discussion about europe and now mr mrs le pen parties now you front you said no we will not go quit the duro before they said yes we would get euro we would keep all the e.u. institutions even the. legal there nor to you in the humidor it was a would have septic and they will have a seventy percent and that we are going hard on our people going about people who were there people by. the able to recall are you not transferred into parties and

people they say legal or they're not filing started with on one where the arrow sceptic but then when they come close to powell's say no we want to be can be part of the european institution israel has the great hunger like we're a leader the gridley that syriza that was all shot iraq sceptic when they came to the power they say left her harbor you know girls can disagree with that but you're talking about politicians who love and i want to call it a shotgun or i'm talking only illusion politicians that represent people really represent people who well i never was popular there i don't usually read what young people don't like to hear that their representative political discontent with the e.u. for some part of the electorate is still there regardless whatever they do well they are closer than our east there is now this continues. i would say propaganda about your sceptical about the european decline european person isn't. under

a towel in this line because it's not true because their eyes are new generation what they call their national generation the new generation the majority are they what they are asking for more europe the point that the leadership today in europe has not been able to give good news to the people they have not be able to understand they have not even implementing the treaties the hundred be excerpted the capacity of european union and so the new generation more european i know for my family my my daughters. my son of the people that are critical with the e.u. institution today i want something as you are critical of the institution with the leadership that others in the us would have septic not people cannot renounce to what has such evil europe. so these message that you were trying to convey

everywhere that europe is free and europeans hot on decline is not right you heard what what the people talk about you refer this isn't i mean marion le pen almost became president now and yet now that you know him but now i'm telling you i'm telling you that it is discouraging to say that while there is a stronger position to go and european and when the people realize that the final decision will have to be taken they say. let's be european and the proof is that everybody wants to get into the club if we were so bad if we were so or such a state nobody would knock that or door people out brittin libyan maybe some good news to get the interaction process more easy more. violence more courageous because the british has been always trying to delay it

certain decision well. even i will tell you i'm not so sure that the protests at the end would leave finally. open question but there is a lot of discussion internally in u.k. because they understood that the this decision doesn't fit correctly for the cannot make them for political and security aspects of their future thank you so much for this injury i wish we had more time to ask you more questions to help or we get to do this one more time and then i can ask you more questions. about practice and everything that i can ask you today and tomorrow thank you very much good luck with everything and we thank and i think petersburg credits and royalty for allowing us to host this interview. thank you.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confrontation let it be an arms race in this on off and spearing dramatic development only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful it's very critical time to sit down and talk.

and now everything is being turned into a massive cloud of dust and r.t. correspondent witnesses how north korea keeps its end of the bargain with the u.s. by destroying its nuclear test site. just hours off the demolition donald trump canceled a potentially historic u.s. north korea summit leaving pyongyang wondering if its peace efforts were all in vain. french president mcraney recognizes russia's strong role on the world stage rejoins blinded by a putin at the international economic forum in st peter's but our team there has all the details from the own good.