welcome to. shevardnadze chance alone in crisis and spain is back in the spotlight again after love collections and separatist victory fearing another independence push what is much reid's next move and what does it all mean for europe i ask spain's former foreign minister may get. reeling from the catalan secession catastrophe madrid is watching over the rest of the province where independence voice is still ringing loud despite a crackdown on separatist leaders with a new kind of on government continue on a course of confrontation on the spanish prime minister afford to restore catalan autonomy and how does the standoff impact on the rest of europe. here national writing us thank you very much for being our guest today it's a pleasure it's a pleasure of mine all right so want to start with cost lanny up because it's back in the spotlight again new kaplan leader mr toure i was very pro independence and he offered dialogue to spanish prime minister he wants madrid to return the

autonomy to stop direct rule of prominence i mean what are the chances. this is spam it would be oh we're all with spain. very. big system in spain. states people don't know what. the spanish given to the qataris and called citizens of spain. i mean you mentioned . the oldest ok but we didn't. go national. i mean you have. to respect. to this. kind of everybody. but they have to respect their legal system and the new new representative. being appointed.

generally of the spun version of autonomy is not really. to go in the right direction so we have to see how things evolve and how we can create this dialogue up saluted necessary but respected the national spanish law so let's go point by point the ruling party saying that if they give catalans back their autonomy that would mean that they will jump right in to the new independence bit not do not go to spawn is. socialist government was form part of this government and we give to the cut on one side nearest star to us for very violence even recognize the qatar nation unfortunately the conservative party the one who is now governing the spain can see that this advanced addressed that it was not a question to shut up and they make an appeal of course to different courts in

spain that reject the statute that this socialist government give to the qatar and i think it's one of the options i think at the end of this to give autonomy back to the timing but because i mean we did the spanish. means and ways to a pretty understand the needs of certain specific before the cut out and nobody denied that but you have to respect the law so my question is you said it's one of the options to give back the autonomy do you not fear the same thing as the ruling party here is that if the autonomy is given that of guidelines they will push for the referendum one more time and referendum they've got their own army now they have looked at army were not given the article one fifty five it's only a certain issue because they have not respected certain elements of the law but the tanami is that we didn't add up the number of the cutter that's the question that there were coming proved to me that what they are asking for but that. see of the

improving the economy the socialist party of the majority of respondents writing free will although seed is to be independent they would not be a cut out state that's for sure so the question of how we accommodate the nationalities view of the national did today it's got on and we did. much let's say advance hope on me for the cut to lunch in the region i mean international. overspeed so improved autonomy as you put it. we all understand that if cuts long gets improve the time to meet that is actually going to cause a chain reaction. two other communities in spain no really i mean the basque are very satisfied. remember the bus was to be independent of the stream shut israel with the system take up the whole of the fiscal policy and i will see the other. you mention the basque nothing's going to happen because the bass are really happy

and it's true because they're in charge of their own finance and and the end of the day that's what initially catalans wanted they wanted to be in charge of their own finances so why give the rights the basque but not to the catalans because the cuttle done in one nine hundred seventy five three known church people dudgeon or that they were they worked out what there was a new course to do should they offer the same treatment to busk and cut us. to the bus to say ok you have fiscal policy you out of tournaments in fiscal off but you take it if you have a deficit in transport or you have a different treatment or you have other future division you have to base your past the cutter and say no. i want to have a special treatment but they're the central government have to pay might they fix it so now there are a clear him and they say oh we were wrong we want the same treatment of the busk but when they cause of them well it can be done it can be negotiate take up nepal

and would that have to be of course i'm honest with the general community so respond is if money is a reason but people say well we are treated badly the cuts are just not true the cuts are not sure does wait and they make a run assessment. for the day they get to what the busker were at the time were ready to take and now they are of course claiming that they have to have a better treatment but you know that is a very nationalistic attitude to cuddle on leader tourists as directly right now that he wants to bring former account only to christiane back to office i mean that's in part. well because bush demands being accused of rebellion do you think he has enough leverage and pressure on the street to actually bring which puts them on those guys back to them or we are waiting for the german german cold to. be extradited to do. just just. to see

what the justice would say about him he escapes the door and they say let's say let's say german court says he's not guilty do you think it's possible either he acts or comes back and you know goes back to your time i would think if it's come back to spend he would be. seen to have be i suppose he would be arrested and put into justice so you see that the spanish model is the spanish model is a unitary state for for a federal government is actually perfect people from the outside who follow the news would argue differently there were only i mean go to. the. us go so many experts in international law and people who countries spent to a study the spanish model and. the cut on that have been in this trend around trend the majority of the people consider that. to fabled

a system for integrated differences and astronaut is to you my question was. a little different do you maybe because everything needs an update sometimes constitutions need an update to zing maybe could be revised to be more federal like germany or switzerland or united jeff of course the good of the socialist party has so forth to. go to to finance reform of the spanish prostitution that is a commission in the parliament. to open a debate with everybody and they've had the end of the negotiation there is a consensus to reform government. only problem about the spanish for the status quo and my personality but they have to be. negotiated to discuss. spanish law on the spot on the shoulder that. there is a consensus why not so there's no problem about that but have to be done in

a positive in the normal and i would say. intentionally to really keep what already is watching whoa so when the referendum happened. crackdown from the center for madrid was very tough they were very clear that they did not want anything like that to happen in their country so now when you talk about maybe compromise maybe give them more autonomy maybe these maybe things know has been the position of socialist party to try to engage in normal dialogue with what happened there was some some of they had been a lot of fake news of a fake image does have demonstrated that people who work hard the world not to so this has been a lot of money play should what happened this first of october but the new way to inform people it is true that there was some. of the security forces you

can't say on this proportionate but the question that it was illegal. and i think. the main main point though although see that you can engage we did the. spanish legal framework and you would see my question was. something that different because madrid was so tough on this referendum what were those. were those of the has been the impression for some international media that they were not for me and it was of value late teens. you know the legal or the been there is that this referendum was illegal there was no basically there was no crackdown so it's not that crowd it's what i told you the fake team a cheese they had no they didn't happen in top and you know but lot of the level of

people you are asking me so there was. no shock tough it was a response like no so to no such nonsense and none of it did it if they were actually feeling very well it was a. lot you have to be tough you know i'm not just disagreeing with you don't let me finish my question is about something very different because it was not tough but a little bit tough the crackdown do you think now they can keep you know given something to compromise because it seems like you know they're very firm like you are very firm about the position of madrid do you feel like if they compromise now they will lose face in you know in front of their voters maybe well you know the president the government you've been cross-court did issue with the leader of source of this but then with the view of the leader of the liberal party and they say well he offered a dialogue but we didn't international the national constitution ready to spread

spectrum you know i think the dayrell can be open and so we hope that you will be the offshore and. accepted by this independent is that we can do this right to mauritius we'll take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to me but i think spain's former foreign minister stay with us. fifty years ago pregnant women to a concert going on as

a sleeping pill does this is what i mean because like to just share this thought the side effects were terrible but not all known as sean indulge one for boardwalk here not that one war will come up across europe victims are starting legal battles demanding at least some compensation. in two ways first will the physical damage itself but as well that the consumer mind that the people who actually perpetrate this crime has never been the justice and there's been a couple of. seventy four design submissions. seven thousand pilings. to china judges. and eight hundred sixty nonstop days of. the russian w.b. a champion. and

a russian stuff. show you how man won the crimea bridge was built. witnessed the construction living in new transport artery that will help the heart of crimea. most of those while go for more familiar with it a bit but. you were back with me and. things former foreign minister and you were at interest so i want to talk about use reaction to what was going on as they did they were in favorable to cotland beat for independence and they sent signals to discourage it right away and now you mention the german car to european courts or stalling the

process of the extradition of the catalan leaders while we are waiting for what the justice of germany are going to decide will have to respect that whatever the issue and i just want to be taken with be respected we have no problem or with european colleagues and european partners european countries they are various traumas said they be single recognition i remember. they declare. independence i wrote an article most of. the title was social thirtieth three qatar under all. that means. was so awful that. there were three countries who most of whom one color only declared up and there was little state in the world that nobody recognized and of course european members they're not going

to recognize got donya so within the european union that could be trans from a position of the people of barker's of somebody i meant but national state there will be no possibility for to integrate or to have any relation with the e.u. institutions you're absolutely right that catalan conflict has implications beyond the spanish border i'm talking about the western balkans because cost of us beat to join the you can advance any further. because ben will never recognize it probably fearing the couple and like you said d.c. any kind of scenario where spain may change position on cost of the of the keep its position on catalonia was foreign minister of spain during seven years and i have tremendous pressure from some european countries from united states from somebody countries to recognize course or i never. you know cannot imagine how much i have to defend the spanish position because i knew what but president and i think

russian for that they should understood. kosovo is the example should not be abided accepted this kind of recognition you know the kurdish of independence is mistaken international i said from the beginning and i think that would be the position especially if that is. between belgrade and pristina and they come mo twenty in a peaceful and agreed in. settlement while the spain would recognize i would recognize but i am proud when. decide to separate them so based fully in agreement asperin recognize what we cannot go into except if you need to add to the ration of independence that's what's up and that

is the beginning and the nightmare that we are affecting the whole international law let's talk in general about e.u. enlargement. french president should not be enlarging any further. because it weakens europe now montenegro and serbia hope to become members by twenty twenty five what is your take should be enlarging and take you know when i joined now tool we are coming to the hour of truth we kind of continue to do so. one process is that is not clear objective for what kind of europe we are looking for we want to have a. large area of free trade space like some countries in distant and central european to retore want or we want to have a strong integrated chopra national juror up that can be i agree a locked door in the new world of twenty first century and that's is going to

happen in the next year i think that is the project that denmark rohani says america and spain and all those we try to to defend the all julep is going to create the new drop and. you know all. the larchmont process in two thousand and four we have ten new members from coming from the belt from me from eastern area from eastern european areas and then well we're started to mount them but then we have the bulk and perspective they will be welcome but if they are welcome to have to feel the whole principle like that you cannot be member of european union like hungary or like poland the states and go to brussels to cut their money their resources and then when there is refugees and you have to fall will know and richard you have to show for the directives i know

is not my business is not my european union so sometimes you look to brush or for money and sometimes you look to the outside learn thick to washington for us to act as the alliance you know that's gonna be tough either you are a jew or a peon or you know in full extent all you are not europe is you have the large been there is a problem of integration of whoever right now is already member and micron says you know. to be integrated the way i see it is we need to have like. maybe more tight union with common budget common finance chief and then there is this whole idea of two speed europe of people some members who want to fully integrate they need to like catch up faster and you know those who want to do it slower than they are welcome and you can you know divide europe into two parts do you think that's a viable thing right now as well i think we are going to go into this path i mean to say i would say it would be to a speed to

a speed up. already in the new version of the system in virtually over on treaty that's year there was a paragraph that say well we could advance have different rhythm members that can go further and other. like behind so. the world situation today cannot allow to have a discussion of minimum common denominator i mean you cannot terminfo to stand also a clear position of europe about the middle east and you have four countries that go and break you know the common position of europe going toward shoes to the open you know for us embassy in jerusalem and some like that because they consider that while they have their own national polls you're in your car your own national professional you are not part. of a strong united europe countries that want to go this line that are much welcome

counted that they preferred to month their days a global attitude to go dark it too but they have no serious commitment towards european a further european policy should decide by don't solve everybody's world com but everybody have to be you know. respected the treaties before that happens and before there is actual to speak. here are what we have right now is one speed europe. and there are large here a skeptic movement and you know it's there those are people who have exactly the opposing views of the orse and they actually go to the parties you know and i think a lot of european countries see the rise of those parties their exact some or all things right now this people are being ignored you know they're like whatever if you don't want to be european you don't have to but they're actually european do you think this continued ignoring of this part of the electorate could blow up now

they're not been in or has been in the selection and the whole europe has been the one who contest the majority of the. public opinion look at what happened in print mrs. depend lost the election due to the european engagement of mr mccrone the debate was when the discussion about europe and now mr mrs le pen parties know you through and through said no we will not quit . before they say yes we would keep your a we would keep told you is to do should. the north do you need to be washed sceptic they will have a seventy percent is that you are going to parties are not just asking about people who were there people but the lottery pool are you not transferring to parties and people they say league of the north. we started say with don't want we have

a septic but then when they come close to poets said no we want to become a part of european institution it is as a great honor looked relieved or the great leader series are that was also sceptic when they came to the power they say. or do no. disagree with that you are talking about politicians who. will. rather i'm talking only leisure politicians that represent people really represent people i don't think i know what's popular and i don't exactly say because they are people don't like yes their representatives this can tank with the e.u. for some part of the electorate is still there regardless whatever they do they are closer than our greece that is now this continues. i would say propaganda by the sceptic of european and declining european pessimism up i'm not

told in this line because it's not true because there are so new generation what they call their national generation the new generation the majority are they what they are asking is for more europe the point that their leadership to danger of has not been able to give good news to the people they have not be able to understand they have not even implementing the treaties there cannot be exerted the capacity of the european union and so the new generation up more europe and i know for my family my my daughter. on the people that are critical with the e.u. institution today want something to do are critical to stick to china with their leadership role this in the un you would have septic no people cannot agree nouns to what cheever julep saw this message that you are trying to convey everywhere that europe is and europeans hot on decline. isn't a rhino not

a money issue what the people talk about judith and this isn't i mean marion le pen almost became president i do not know yet and i don't then you nothing but now i'm telling you i'm telling you that it is discouraged saying that while there is a stronger position against european and when the people are realized that the final decision. have to be taken they say well let's be european and the proof is that everybody would want to get into the club if we were so bad if we were saw such a state nobody would not cut or door people of britain the libyan maybe some good news to get the integration process more easy more. violence more courageous because the britain has been always trying to deal

a certain decision well even i will tell you not so sure that the brutality and would leave finally. open question but there is a lot of discussion internally in u.k. because they understood that this decision doesn't fit correctly for the cannot make them for political and security aspects of their future thank you so much for this interim wish we had more time to ask you more questions but hopefully we get to do this when we're time and then i can ask you more questions are going to be a little uneasy about practicing and everything that i can ask it in that. thank you very much good luck with everything and with frank and st petersburg bredesen royal for allowing us to host the central. control.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy going for him to let it be an arms race to move his arms off and spearing dramatic development only personally i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. to them a sign genetically modified organisms in the system and in the food industry in the one nine hundred ninety s. . the line of tom is taking that and nights and what does not have to do with g.m.

. was to just give. us a little of the shadows almost too much. like this is a chemical widely used to kill leaks. was it the most widely believed or was likely to be the beer in the street. described in the runs there's a possible temptation. to chatter her future scientists truth that she in context really awful on the human race to science service to the world free of g.m.'s in crisis eight would be even be able to see as we passed the points of never send.

everybody. another day another diplomatic one eighty from donald trump now he says that historic summit with north korea. despite pulling out yesterday shortly after pyongyang raised its nuclear site which. now everything is being turned into a massive cloud of dust he was there to witness how north korea's keep the center of the bargain with the u.s. . also had money tonight for the world's red hot topics or rather north korea and the u.s. sanctions i discussed. with. another world leaders at the somebody just the international economic forum.