peter lavelle summit or no summit that's the question north korea's threat of a no show in singapore on june twelfth is a reminder to washington that north korea will not merely cave to american demands or should i say john bolton's demands if there's going to be an agreement it's going to take time and patience to the americans and the north koreans have enough of either. crosstalk in the upcoming summit i'm joined by my guest kevin martin in washington he's president of peace action and peace action education fund as well as coordinator of the korea peace network also in washington we have jenny town she is managing editor of thirty eight north and in boston we cross to. he is an assistant professor at baruch college city university of new york and a specialist on korea and asian affairs all right cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate jamie lynn and jenny

let me go to you first here do you think there's still going to be in summit or are we just get in the preamble process of you know everybody's kind of feeling everyone out and finding out what the lay of the land because i think when the cable stations in the us tend to overreact to all kinds of things go ahead jenny. they mean they definitely overreact and the fact that we haven't heard this coming from concerned than himself i would assume that some i process this i'm a process is still moving and that we should expect it to happen but i think it is a reminder that you know there are obligations on all sides of the north koreans are not simply as you said not simply just going to do things unilaterally they do expect or it's a break aisha and it will take time and they're not interested in a model especially the libyan model where you know it ended up with the deposition of deposing qaddafi and so this idea too is that you know they also expect to have reset recall actions along the way not simply at the end of

a process and i think you know that needs to be taken into account even in the messaging as we move forward you know kevin more or less the same question to you because again i think a lot of nuance is lacking in the coverage of this very very important story is that the perception is that the the north koreans and there's preconditions like surrender give up all of your weapons your program and then we can talk now any rational person that has an understand of international relations and diplomacy which unfortunately is terribly lacking at times in washington knows that it's a tit for tat it's a learning process you have to start learning to trust each other that's step one go ahead. well and i think it's important to remember that the most important president in this process is president moon of korea not president trump of the united states it's always all about trump right everything is always all about trump except this isn't president moon is not only trying to bring about peace and

diplomacy on the peninsula he's trying to reclaim more independence and sovereignty in a relationship with the polar world superpower and so far he's been doing it extremely deftly and i think we should be looking to that meeting here in washington on may twenty second between trump and moon as a very important step in starting the stage for later talks including this time between trump and kim ok let's go to go to boston professor i mean more or less the same question again to you here i mean with the added county out is how much is american domestic politics playing in this because again if you look at the mainstream media the liberal media they have a hard time. digesting this story that trump could be part of a peace making world historic event here they're very hesitant i mean i make gnostic i'm a peace ok in a i don't care who gets you there ok but that's not the case in american domestic politics go ahead professor in boston. right as you pointed out here in the united

states particularly in the mainstream news media don't want to give credit to president trump they're simply a case. as any pointed out important thing is that the statement you know criticizing john bolton or even canceling the summit meeting came from directly from. going from counterpart to plumber to you know john bolton in the past. so that's that's kind of individual statement highlighted that the north korean government officially still is very much interested in the coming summit meeting with the president i think that's the case ok jenny what do you think that the first steps are going to be because unfortunately and maybe this is because of the bolton effective and just the perceptions of north korea in general you know the end result is a nuclear free peninsula i think that's the oil to make goal but that's going to

take a long time to get there stationing of american troops in the south so far the north has not really put a whole lot of demands on that but we know that that will probably be part of the process as well i mean what we know is is some of this coming up in singapore it's not going to decide everything it might start the process of deciding something and i think that's the way it should be looked at go ahead jim. yes i think it you're exactly right it is that you know this summit is not a one off it's not supposed to solve all of the problems there's only so much you can do in a one day meeting at a high level meeting you're not going to get into the details and this is been part of the problem is that this isn't necessarily how the u.s. does diplomacy and so it's been a very uncomfortable and very uncertain process along the way normally this would come after you've already negotiated all the details yet rather than setting the mandate and the objectives of what has to be in a deal so i think you know there's a lot here that is very uncertain i think there's been very bad expectation

management along the way coming from both the u.s. as well as the south korean government raising expectations too high and i think you know along this way we have to understand that there's a lot that comes out in public messaging that isn't necessarily what's being talked about behind closed doors because it is a negotiation and neither side is going to publicly publicly talk about the full range of things where there is room for negotiation because obviously they're not going to show their hand so i think we need to keep perspective and keep our expectations realistic as to what we expect to see and yes there might be some concrete moves made at the beginning hopefully there are some you know very clear objectives of what has to be included in a deal and then it gets passed down to the negotiators to actually work out the details of very good point you know kevin. decided to pull out of the iran deal if you if you look at his reasoning it had nothing to do with the deal itself the

i.a.e.a. . gave a clean bill of health to turan and everything you talked about was other things than if we could use the analogy of a basket you want to put more eggs in the basket human rights all these things here do you fear that this is what the political class is going to do. to be a spoiler because you know we can all speculate what john bolton's role in this is and we don't know he hasn't been in the job very long ok but i mean i worry that these extra things will be added ok regime change the type of regime of the hype of system that's going to be that's going to solve our everything we should be very focused on one thing and that might maybe just might be doable cabin. well i don't think bolton's role is going to be positive or good and certainly people that have studied this issue know that he helped to scuttle the last agreement that was negotiated under the clinton administration the agreed framework when he was in the

bush administration i have to say though that the recent protests by the north korean government the u.s. south korean war exercises makes all the sense in the world for them to have complained why in the world we have to do these twice a year the largest military exercises in the world we're not sure that our stuff is going to work what are my tax dollars paying for and the fact that it was reported that the f. twenty two and be thrifty two were used of course it looks to north korea like a practice for an invasion or a decapitation strike so that part of the problem is the united states has no humility we're the number one superpower the war machine runs on autopilot if we have these planes ready to fly these military exercises we're going to do and eat our dust and like now and that just doesn't set a good tone for diplomacy and i think when you had the great thaw with the olympic truce and at first north korea not complaining about the war exercises the earlier

version of the war exercises that was an astonishing concession by them and then we have to rub their nose in it by saying ok well now these air force exercises are going to include the f. twenty two and b. fifty two although i did see a report yesterday that maybe they're going to pull back the b. fifty two but it doesn't set a good precedent to go ahead and do this and rub north korea's nose in it when we're about to go into diplomacy exactly go back to the professor in boston it's one of the problems we have here is that unfortunately particularly in since the end of the cold war diplomacy is often equally to do with appeasement and i think we need to get away from that if we're going to make any kind of progress go ahead in boston. yeah that's very important point to him and john bolton was the guy who years the you know appeasement he preferred regime change or military option in solving the problem as you know well and then he was the guy who described the agreed framework of nine hundred ninety four as

a kind of appeasement and also the nuclear iran deal well also appeasement but if we want to genuinely solve the situation in a peaceful way you know if you know interaction and diplomatic matters or business or as jenny pointed out you know two things some sort of really important one is how to manage expectation inflated expectation in united states especially in south korea and also how to deal with uncertainty important masses we have to think about it is hard to deal with you know earn certain or risky outcomes ultimately in such kind of situations actors were tried to minimize the loss now next muslim to me and so at this kind of you know some precarious and uncertain situation about the final outcome of the summit meeting and the following diplomatic negotiations between the united states and north korea when you to increase in

a more communication because trust building some sort of understanding or mutual understanding is a sensual process and for that corporation a communication communication is basically means you know more diplomatic interactions in every level and not just in a summit level but at the same time a high ranking in the military and economic aspect in every you know levels of you know communication ok we're going to i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break if i may we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the upcoming summit state with our kate. but it would kind of go into accepting you need to have to learn to try to defend that's what's hot stuff and him push away that's just the beginning and the nightmare of the trio of how faked in the whole life from a. g.m.a.

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of a broader way enough i figured out i really did a poll that i want to get. moving in these amazing least if you don't involve these constantly evolving. welcome back to cross talk we're all things are considered i'm peter remind you we're discussing the upcoming summit. ok let's go to kevin at the very last second you want to jump in so you can jump in now go ahead kevin in washington. just to follow up on the professor's comment i thought it was very interesting and important that moon showing him who's the special advisor to president moon in south korea this statement after the north korean statement of concern and postponing the meeting that was supposed to happen

in south korea said that south korea will continue to be an aggressive mediator and i thought that was very important and very hopeful that no one's going to control trump right but i think we especially people that do want peace and i'm like peter i'm agnostic i'm no fan of trump but if he brings about peace i'm all for it those of us who really advocate peace and want to see a resolution it's about koreans making peace that's not what trump wants now transit go always gets in the way of everything but if trump of the united states can't support koreans making peace then we need to stay out of it completely agree that i think this is what again the mainstream media can't get their head around that it's about the korean people's know what then south first and foremost ok and then the u.s. is the interloper here jenny you want to also react go ahead jump in well i mean i'm not.