that is coming from brussels i agree with the messages coming from brussels stressing debt european commission is big guardian of the treaties so all all the member states including italy have to respect these is fine but please don't say always every minute austerity a steri a stary de these is what inflames euro skepticism not only immediately if you're good doesn't listen to you does that make it inevitable italy will leave the european union no is not possible it has and i think of all italy would be why not be strong members in the european union in next years but having a very clear idea what is in the interest of italia each area and took her nurse italia and the younger generation how could we warrant you nor did

to make it possible that italian interest coincides with european interest i'm sure you're aware of the so-called scaremongering before the brics it vote here but is it your understanding that given italian borrowing on the bond markets it could not function if italy left the european union given the e.u. interest guarantees well i york still italy is not only one of the people ours but it only deserves shoe port in order to have a good all sent jobs not the norm but in order to keep distance from brussels these are exactly the exercise we ask for by the grassroots you're speaking to me from the italian capital how sick and tired of the italian public of so-called socialist and so-called neo liberal parties. there is

a need to early knowledge death would be. kind to all opposition in the parliament but i don't see really a very strong a position it need to leave from a socialist and purely liberal party its dairies an opposition which is represented by a force they tell you that part of your prime minister former prime minister berlusconi dairies the opposition of democratic party that by mr mudge there are rancy but i don't see yet clear a long term ninety governmental policy against is near chorley shum led by if i stop and leak if we leave renzi to one side vitally what role does forza retaliate have to play or is it just and it adequate twentieth century ideology promoter as quanta might speak of it i mean even with media

sets media power in italy for their italia didn't do well that is where well i think delaware some phenomena in the recent past people where very much for straight up because of the crisis unemployment reached higher levels despite some efforts from the outgoing italian government deals was that the origin of the political crisis that led to do a result of styles and delete those parties could be defined as cost ideological or political movements but nevertheless we do need it traditional political parties the liberals the socialists the christian democrats they. could be i would say important

contribution to. the new parliament and so i think these is the reason why the ruling majority will have to confront its stronger position otherwise there would be and bad situation too did a tremendous of a chile as a whole franco frattini thank you thank you very much after the break we speak to a former purveyor of fleet street notorious dark arts john ford and the alleged con man for the murdoch sunday times turned leveson inquiry whistleblower and aware of all the flowers gone the lemon tree trust exhibits its garden at the chelsea flower show in london aiming to alleviate the effects of britain's bombing of iraq all this and more coming up in part through of going on the ground.

twenty five years ago companies to go public as a way to expand their would be a viable corporation you have to meet certain criteria to for being a bible corporation and then you are allowed to go public now there are no such criteria so if you're essentially burning through cash and going bankrupt you're using the public marketplace to bail out a losing position. welcome back the british labor party's deputy leader tom watson is demanding the u.k. government reverse a decision of a media regulation in the light of allegations from a former rupert murdoch sunday times worker well that worker referred to in the british house of commons was john ford and he joins me now john thanks for coming on going underground the government says justice is already being served by the inquiry catalyzed by the murdoch media hacking of phones of a dead school child what do you make of the high court decision in the buzz few days to go. had with some kind of legal challenge well not truly i'm delighted i

think particularly this week especially following on from me because lake inquiry it's clear that press practice is still us that's a reference to the magister attacks yeah that we've been commemorating the dead indeed yes so showing that journalists practice is still out of control in journalism is a competitive business and journalists will compete with each other to get a line this situation needs a root and branch inquiry we were promised leveson one and leveson two by lord leveson because he considered the. the job unfinished there are a number of areas that were to be looked at particularly the relations of the media and the police and so forth and it seems strangely convenient to a government which is struggling to survive to want to kill off something which is

going to be painful for them what did you do at the sunday times i was a black a black or is a person who uses social ingress so i would ring people up spin them a story to illegally get information from them so i would work it was a general step by step process generally work from an address at the lowest point from someone's gas account recover at the. very least their ecstatic tree telephone number that was used as a security. following that i'd then strand find out whether or not there's a direct debit and recover the bank details then move on whatever i could to with those details to open bank accounts mortgage is tax. i stole rubbish and went through the trash of ministers looking

for. anything that might compromise them or their political standpoint or certainly when i was working for the sunday times i had a strong belief that i was working in the public interest exactly because i think you can surely see that journalists although i suppose you was going to say that you weren't a journalist when you were doing that work there is a public interest defense of all the things you just said if say a minister had been involved in privatisation of a utility or a myriad other corruption investigations that are legitimately done in the public interest indeed indeed and this wasn't some of the work i did particularly the work on terror identifying terrorist cells in the way was clearly in the public interest. and i have no ethical issue did the public service yes i mean you you did this kind of thing against alastair campbell and tony blair who

some might suggest that that kind of surveillance. in the run up to the iraq war i think it was was newt you were doing this it was slightly earlier but yes it was in the run up to the war you know he didn't think that many people in this country would see that is if he wanted to reveal details of the kind of economy with the truth then shown to us by the iraq inquiry of a little joke should have been worthwhile there's legislation in place to govern. the use of. illegality should be. liking the dark arts but there are specific guidelines and they don't include fishing expeditions and removing someone's. rubbish from outside their house is very clearly a fishing expedition and nothing more what happened to the person who was telling you to go on those fishing expeditions then editor of john with

a well what's interesting about john with is that following his performance and parenthesise performance at leveson he then went on to be promoted to the ship of the times the newspaper of record in the case so he got a promotion john whether it yet is this and it has been one thousand nine hundred thirteen your name of course mentioned anyone throwing the first leveson inquiry i mean he was already controversial he said that michael foot the then labor leader was a k.g.b. agent in these only to make an out of court settlement to rupert murdoch of the not supporting the labor party in those days what was it like to work for. i never met him i was always kept out of the what was called the plant i only ever entered the plant once operated as a free lunch so that there was credible let's see i only knew reports of

him from people that i became very close to working with over the telephone but people are actually in the end when the whole day with him became close friends with who more than twice referred to him is as a sociopath was it your interpretation that when you were hacking the abbey national account of gordon brown that rupert murdoch because a lot in the press these days about the attacks on the leader of the labor party to recall what was your interpretation that in effect what you were doing was trying to destroy the political chances of gordon brown with the benefit of hindsight it's clear that the there was a political agenda to undermine cotton brown i should say that the government scientist david kelly who somewhat suggest tried his best to avert a war that killed or wounded or displaced tens of millions of people. i don't know if you've been quoted as having qualms about what happened to him i did work on

david kelly home address utilities and so forth and it was several days later that rufford famously turned up at the kellys room residence i think it's on the record it was a great shock to the family. and curiously two days later he was found with his wrists slit and the inquiry seems suggest that he was incapable of cutting state with his. weak wrists a my theories about the david kelly mass remain open i'm just ashamed of thought at some level i may be complicit in in his death. joe ford thank you thank you very much. well from surveilling those who brought us the iraq war let's turn to attempts to alleviate that was catastrophic

consequences through literally taking voltages advice to cultivate a garden i'm joined now by kerry perkins the director of operations and cultural anthropology at the lemon tree trust it's an organization that has put the world's worst refugee crisis center stage in a garden of this year is chilled see flower show in london thanks for going and going on to tell me about the trust and how anyone who looks at the garden to show we see everything that it really seems to be well thank you so much for having me the garden at chelsea this year sponsored by the lemon tree trust and we are an organization that supports gardening and gardening initiatives and refugee camps primarily in northern iraq so the garden this year has been directly inspired by the resiliency the determination the creativity that we've seen gardeners exhibit through our work in northern iraq we really wanted to bring a different message to different audience this year and so we thought chelsea might

be the correct platform to do that so our garden is to highlight the way that people in iraq and in them as refugee camp are reusing materials that are reusing grey water really creating gardens out of small space and creating gardens and maybe less than ideal circumstances because obviously in media we hear about is the exponential numbers of refugees what was it like because you've been there to be in northern iraq right so the camp that we work and as opened in two thousand and twelve and when the camp first opened there are over fifty thousand syrian refugees that had fled across the border into the camp primarily syrian kurds we entered the camp in two thousand and fifteen and the numbers had almost half to it was about twenty six thousand people that were still residents in the camp about six thousand six thousand so. by all accounts still a very very large population and when we first entered as what we did is we first started with a survey we just walked up and down some of the streets and we wanted to identify

who was already gardening what were they doing and how could we support existing gardeners to capitalize on their existing knowledge base and how could we empower them to be mentors to other people in the community to put forth this message of you can actually grow things in this camp you can reuse water we can create something green and beautiful in it in a situation where you maybe wouldn't expect that so we entered them as the can't management that we dealt with there was a wonderful woman named layla who was in charge at that time and was extremely receptive to ideas of planting trees and supporting these initiatives that would really have not only a positive environmental impact but also a positive human and social impact and it's one of the things that they say to you when us questions are being do this is the one of the first things they miss most or leaving their homes for was it as we said these new tunisians are involved in these are the sounds of nature and and they go in the trees absolutely and so my role on the team my background is i'm

a cultural anthropologist and so my role is to sit with people and to talk to them and hear their stories and figure out what works and what doesn't work and and what it is that would make their lives a bit better in this situation and from those interviews from these direct conversations people absolutely said you know if i could open my door and see a tree or see green space you know it gives me somewhere for my kids to play it gives me somewhere to sit where i can have a bit of peace for a moment it can remind me of home and gives us the space to be together as a family and i think often we over you know we take for granted how important those things are when we entered in two thousand and fifteen a lot of the tents had started being converted into breezeblock homes some more permanent structures were going up but people told us when i first got here within the first two weeks i started planting outside of my tent not just planting food. flowers because they wanted to have something that was beautiful and a lot more so it's about being able to reshape the space around you if you're in a situation of forced migration you want to be able to create

a sense of autonomy you want to have control of your environment once again and creating a garden is a really great way to do that present situation is hostile environment policy arguably britain detains people in detention centers or camps here in britain the un isn't being allowed notoriously do you think i mean some of those are bound to be people waiting for legitimate asylum claims. i mean how important do you think it would be to them this kind of would i think it would be incredibly of important and i'm from the us myself and we have the same the same sort of situations where people are detained in detention centers and i think if you're able to implement community gardening especially for people that have suffered trauma recently as many refugees that we work with have if you can create a space for women to be together or for families to be together where they can talk about shared experiences in a more culturally appropriate way it has a huge impact on their psychosocial adjustment and on the healing process i think

you should be able to bring gardens to all of these situations of people that have been forced to flee and are in a situation that's less than ideal because it does not only give you physical exercise it it's better for the environment i mean the benefits are countless but it does have that huge social and emotional impact that can really make a difference in somebodies just day to day reality why do you think the language used about review g.'s is asylum seekers. and the number of this human side to it or the toll mostly the designer of this go to we should remember that there are ordinary people teach as well as decorations and so it is this is a wonderful question and thank you for bringing it up and then myself working with refugees professionally and academically we constantly see that refugees are often framed in the media as victims as people that are recipients of aid and really categorized into a lump sum of a refugee in a migrant sometimes news organizations will show you what's happening on the ground

in very live footage of civil war and and you know if you are watching chemical weapons attack videos these sort of things have had a lasting impact and people tend to watch engage with that but the flip side of that is that it does frame people and puts them into a particular box which is really not true to that population when i work in time as when i'm on the field i meet doctors my last translator had training as an aeronautical engineer you meet design. carpenters gardeners people from all walks of life i had a several hour long chat with a woman a couple months ago who was a beekeeper who started as a beekeeper when she got married her father gifted her a beehive and this is what she had done in damascus for several years and then she finds herself in a refugee camp you know not able to tenby ease and trying to find a different played to make a difference but it's incredibly important for people to remember that it could happen it could happen to any of any of us you know at any time and to really place yourself into their shoes and to their contacts that people are just people and the

shared humanity i think that gardening can highlight is one of the most positive impacts and i hope one of the largest messages that we're putting forward with our garden at chelsea is very broken so i guess. that's it for the show will be back on monday when we go to ramallah to talk to palestine chief negotiator so you beric have until then you can talk to us about social media as you know my big hundred forty seven years to the day the judge of thousands were killed in the crocheting of the paris called the revolutionary government in front of. twenty eighteen coverage we've signed one of the great just killed people is a little silly but there was one more question and by the way it's going to be our coach. guys i know you are nervous he's a huge star among us and the huge amount of pressure you have to go to the center

of the beach but probably always will and will go over great great if you are the rock at the back nobody gets past you we need you to get the ball going let's go. alone and doesn't want to you know and i'm really happy to join us for the two thousand and three of the world cup in russia. this special one come on girl just be sure. to just sit there. latest addition. was selling you on the idea that dropping bombs brings can use the chicken hawks forcing you to fight the battles that stole. the new socks credit tell you that some of the public bus files of the most important news today. off the bat tell me you are not cool enough to buy their product. these are the

hawks that we along with our audience will watch. i'd quite like a swim suit but there's no time. for people. this is a special tent. it fills the freshly poured concrete from direct sunlight and rank . this section when be opened until the concrete has hardened enough. love on up was a good move it will come up above that when you will love love love really just love. the concrete mix is prepared according to a special recipe that has to be high performance concrete that's extremely stable in water sometimes a. little bit. more partnership with. the i use here you're. liable

for a little. bit of that. anyone who's ever built their own data hasn't afraid of concrete. was what it was or to do or did you know what will the show for you when the book was both. still. ok i know you're sitting there having a laugh and thinking there was scuba divers down there waiting for my signal to release a couple of dolphins but honestly the truth is much more straightforward lots of plankton builds up around the palace and that attracts fish and then you know what attracts the dolphins was. little boy was furthermore that they did feel. like it. once again resorts his visits in answering or

as he still failed to find the bride will try a scientific approach to the if you look beautiful. there will. be joy because she died of course on what you're going to name two months arena's she just rashad adopting the strategy instead of scouring crimea she should look for a bride here and some on. moving here the last little is there's a little more sensitive to. your superiors there are more to. oh oh. point oh it's so. you know. it's interesting you can you go to them you. just have seen a service like this is how vehicles board the ferry literally bumper to bumper it's hire some ordeal first you have to wait in line for tickets then line up for

inspection then again to actually board one. after all that even in good weather and depending on how many cars there are the crossing can say two to three hours even though the actual sailing time is only fifteen to twenty minutes but if it's stormy forget it you stay ashore praying for the weather to break. but. it will never sell your. ferries have the cerebral mance about them every hope they keep going after the bridge opens. you know and i made it across the straits she's going on to moscow and all of us had been shot and some are. all serene this prophecy was frights has finally found a bride a schoolteacher called elvira. and now they're off to sin for all people to shop

for a wedding dress. it's a kiss three hours to get from time on to kirk's because there was no queue at the crossing. and another three and a half hours to simferopol that's almost seven hours in total but when the bridge opens for shots no virar will be able to reach them for opal in half the time. oh yes look i think this is. the best the good that the new love us. who is because it is the listener would. get us. some shook hands. no wolf yes. to that. that. was the purpose this one because the most know not to just not for this music it

but. let's look. installing the bridge arches the grand culmination of the project before the arch was installed it was just two of the painted sections heading towards each other once the arch is installed it becomes a bridge based on finished. both arches were built in carriage the railway arch was first to be installed the bridge builders did something quite unique. to shift the arch towards the fairway they laid it all to floating continents. the six thousand ton bill started plowing through the water. here it's been placed over the void between the pillows a few hours later and it's lifted into place by a special giant jacks. looking

to sell out it's hard to believe that man is capable of anything quite so grant. just six weeks later the bridge builders pulled the same trick again but the highway arch this time. on the black sea coast this hour will is home to one of crimea's most beautiful light houses just fifty kilometers from courage and surprisingly it still works and still lights the way for passing ships. here because those guns and pistols keep almost all some or sort of a lot more to the war some would surely not more serious of the city of moore.

but if you will not. be your call still love positions you've just hours to get out the couple why don't. you. just another ten kilometers drive south from the lighthouse and you find yourself in the approximate reserve the way you can see incredibly beautiful salt lake's delightful babies and the mysterious grotto. it's all very romantic. vision your sources said you've got the course a grasp of ideals. and. well the camino. this is a broadly garment scented snake remain on. the ship from the end of this it was going to go up because we. knew nothing about the art. by the by milton doesn't matter.

so. it's a very important day for shots and it's there in the car or a muslim wedding ceremony. all of the shots relatives aunts sisters and brothers are here all of them. getting cold feet she's reluctant to leave the car. with come to the con spec mosque and starry crim it's one of the most ancient mosques on the peninsula. some seven hundred years ago starry crim or qur'an as it was known then was the golden hordes administrative center. it's also the origin of crimea's modern name. this is the location rashad chose for his nichol. to be honest i've never been inside the mosque before this is just as exciting for me as it is for the bride and groom. i don't understand a single word but even so it's very.