cross talking italy and the e.u. i'm joined by my guest. in london he is a foreign affairs consultant and analyst also in london we have to go from this exit doc to los he's a senior lecturer in european politics at the university of surrey and in milan we cross to monaco bus on the he is a professor of political theory at the university of milan or a german cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate that they have on this let me let me go to you first in london we have somewhat of a crisis we'll see where it goes in italy we had the majority of italians going to the polls voting for parties that were against the neo liberal agenda of the status quo and i would also extend that to the philosophy of the e.u. and now we have a nonpolitical technical government and it looks like it's only a matter of time before there's going to be another election i mean where do you

see this going because on the one hand you have the elites worried about share values assets and that's perfectly understandable i think that any anyone in power be worried about that but then you have the democratic process i mean how do you balance these two because this is where it's going to turn into potentially a crisis sometime in the fall go ahead they found this in london yeah well they are still riding the wave of populism across europe the populist parties are gaining momentum still it was thought that it had stopped a little bit or retrenched maybe with the french election which he didn't mention. but we see again the need to leave now is one of the worst affected countries in terms of the economic strains it was the next one to go we were expecting it. in terms of the financial. capabilities of the country the turmoil

has been going on for the last eighty days or so. with the. appointment of the new government is the kind of the last element to this saga but we do expect it to be resolved somehow it's fine for for democracy democracy doesn't have dead ends only has solutions so. i am pretty sure that the solution will be found in italy now on the european side that's a whole different story because it is a mixture of technocrats and elected representatives and what we call euro kratz at the same time so i think that there needs to be a wider european discussion about the values of european integration about the prospects of european integration and about a road map of how to go about it and taking into account some of the issues that

have been highlighted. you're bringing up a very good point there let me go to marco in milan but you know my sense is brussels doesn't really care about what the people of the e.u. think about the strategy ahead because they don't have european union wide alexion on should we continue integration should we vote on a constitution that it's not done that way and i think that's part of the alienation of a lot of the publics in the european union theophanous brought up something they think is interesting is this a one off italy in a certain moment in political and economic and social history or is it really part of this wave that the infamous mentioned in london go ahead marco in milan. yeah i don't. see the european union it is real cold war tool it's not the united states what it boils when sugo i see you are now you were in then right now it's rare not that many. and it's

a lot of who want. to sort of hide what was witnessed and to hide. then you know i don't anymore so i guess it's really it was the only you only want to do this very much but there is no you. more there is no real problems that are there you know nation. and the like. twenty years you're. wrong and the right which is. certainly not enough there is nothing like it. and there is a lot of well. i just are changing very rapidly now and. there's no problem with this you know ok i want to write you write

a good ad really and london right now i mean i look at the election the italian election i mean and you may be wrong my impression was that we had these populist parties on the left and the right. questioning the policies of the status quo in italy and the european project in general but they're not saying to get out of the european union but not yet now between now in the next election if there is no progress made and we could see the left and the right work together much more closely in the next election and if they do get way more than the majority then you may have membership in the e.u. on the table and it's moving in that direction because you know the economic crisis there ever since the financial crisis of two thousand and eight i mean the perception is the banks were protected and nobody else it was all the direction of brussels and berlin go ahead in london. i think people are

generally thinking of the idea of your opinion as hutapea and once a many political unders seeing resemblance between the. two you would say that there's a more resemblance between the collapse of the soviet union and breakup of the e.u. i think the e.u. and the soviet union. both of grind in the utopian idea. european union as a customs union yes. all europeans and all the people around the world are eager to do business but part of that we can see a huge disparity between the general populace. labor. general workers and elites business elites and this is going breaking down to and resonates with the populistic parties because we can see that some people in our

society damage already the real majority is left behind. this is the main problem is that the political elites around the european union. live in a utopia and they are out of touch with the realities of the. common people so they are representing the big businesses the markets investors songs of all of which are crucial to well being of the nation states but of the same time those very corporate and cities what is their value without the common man ok so this philosophy doesn't hold the author and i think that this is the main problem if the political elites around europe will not grass their reality. they will find find them so. in a very nasty situation. pushing us to do. drastic

things very well said except for one word you didn't use you didn't use democracy and all of that and i think that is the problem here we have on this here you know people talk. you know negative i mean you know i mean let me go will go by i get back to you i'll get back to you about this let me go to you in london. there's a lot of talk about this populist movement in the rise of the right but it's not the rise of the right it's the failure i hope of the status quo and i think you know the elites and me in the media can you know you can't trust these people to rule with then you can't trust democracy you can't have it both ways go ahead the of on this in london this is probably one of the few times i'll agree with you peter is ok it is the it is the failure of of the mainstream parties to to to capitalize on the demands of the people however i would disagree with the fact that elites are completely. as disjointed or

in connection with the common people i don't really like the expression common people and i don't like the expression of the left behind and i can tell you why because it is really easy to fall into the trap of emotional language that populist parties are using good point i don't see populist parties doing anything different at the stage than what they have promised to do that common people that they claim to represent so in fact in this case i think it is a political agenda with high political stakes they want to go into power for their own purposes and i think that a lot of the people that they claim to represent are falling into the trap of becoming victims of this emotional language i think we need to sit down and rational. really think about what the problems with the european integration

program are what the actual needs of the people are both in economic and social terms and see and find ways of being at least progressive in our ideas and practice mattick in the way that we handle things on the ground ok peter finally got up marco and before we go to the break here i mean when you look at the leading parties in the in the last election in italy do you think that they are capable of ruling even though they've been pushed aside for the time being do you think they have the the wisdom in to be able to move forward and do capitalize on their victory go ahead in the milan. yes you know i think they do actually want to see is the political class that they have to use though they're really like the lowest kind of the country not my adult life most of them are sound and correct way so it's really easy stuff is

pretty bizarre you know. these people are not exactly very cooperative but that's the story these are all those. who are. who are the police groups what do they do usually you know one definition of political science is the people or organize the movements try to exploit the fears of the blago marco let me i'm going to jump in here gentlemen i have to go to a hard break and after that heart break we'll continue our discussion on italy and the state with art. you never know what's around the corner i never know what's in the pub in the can take the nice that excitement it's that not knowing that's where the adrenalin rush

comes from. who needs a room by definition and explained so well for most of. the violence he's a pug and this is almost a schizophrenia thank you we can do all these things and behave like bad. important people the hardest part of a long post but more so for the last one. and this may end in firmware more or less in the start. i would rather where. enough i put out a really good holdout down went up a little bit playing the meaning in these images that least if you don't buy the involves ensconced in the of over and. play. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter the us is over twenty

trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be ultra rich eight point six percent market saw thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred trade per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember is one one does not show you can afford to miss the one and only who bought. the first. radially reinforced rammed earth bricks was what they really are. to

believe. this more than seventy houses about a hundred and forty people with families living here that. it's really a way of forming say man please the sun's coming in and heating the house and being stored in massive walls placed sagebrush is the natural environment here but as we're containing the sewage and and using to plant stuff to process the sewage we create our own little. the races here. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see you then.

welcome back across the uk where all things considered i'm peter we're discussing italy and the e.u. . ok let me go back to marco and milan you were referring to the break you were talking about the nature of populist and populist movements right now go ahead. yes there are fears that the people have you know they feel they are. on they do you know that you called it neo liberalism. makes me you know this is this you are it's like oh it's. we're in france in france and italy is about fifty seven percent i want to i really wonder what kind of stupid well. it's not the now

and neo's. but war it's a new year so it was a big business kind of proff as a you know it's a clue shoot big business big clearly there is a lot of big government and now you were before you were a guest was to go on u.s.s.r. and i would compare the european union to the holy roman to. in the seventy's hundreds that had no effect whatsoever in european politics and this whole area used to say is either all the more roman are not even and are. it's not units not well it's your view ninety eight it's a utopia but most of the people most people in new york just because believe it it's certainly not that in their lives well i mean what was done hang on hang on here do you know it to be fair here there are

a number of cases where the european union is genuinely popular in the european union and this is part of the divide among member states here and then let me go back to. that and london here and again on the go if we use the italian election is a microcosm i mean the issues that were on the table immigration lack of growth the youth unemployment. you know do they have the tools because the the the populous parties will say that their hands are tied because it's brussels and. berlin pushing austerity you know is i just passing the buck because these are real issues with real voters and it seems to be all across the european union and i'd like to talk gentlemen a little bit about brags that before we finish up here go ahead raylan in london. i think that we're missing the point of what was in two thousand and fourteen by the harper's magazine was the. one of the process from the london school of economics

professor john and. it was titled how germany reconquered europe i agree with that statement obviously when it comes to immigration. deficit in a country song so for first of all we know the this is a problem immigration is a huge problem but this is not the problem of the of the european union or european states in the first place this is a problem which was caused by the administration of. mr bush when he started his war on terror in two thousand and two. so. the people who are to be blamed for that immigration must immigration for them from the middle east are americans not americans about their freedom and i nearly you know how do you have to be fair but hang on hang on we've got to be fair here i mean and

i go merkel said open the doors let a million people in it wasn't a u.s. president that said that ok i mean i get the gist of your point ok if you bomb people they can believe ok and they want to go to a richer place ergo don't bomb them and maybe invest in their countries so they don't want to leave ok so i mean let's let's keep it balanced there the opponents let me go to you because. and you know dealing with these issues dealing immigration that you know they just focus on that one i mean this issue's been around for a while it's getting more intensified but it's been there and i you know i my knowledge of italy in the in the issue of immigration i mean for some communities it's dire it's dire people just walking off the beach i mean when you and all of us on this program when we go to a foreign country we get an airplane we go through life it take it we go through metal detectors we have our passports checked we were checked and now you have people just coming onto the beach and walking in i mean that is something that if i

lived in the telling community i would be periods about i mean it's the least of all the security issue go ahead the of us in london yeah i mean this has been accentuated by the refugee crisis so we need to be a little bit careful about the immigration side and the refugee side the same the same happens in greece but let me tell you something pete the majority of the people who voted for the populist parties have not even come across a single immigrant in their communities so i mean sometimes it's like bragg's it the areas that voted bragg's it in the u.k. have the least problem of immigration there are largely white british areas so the leg. narrative there is very interesting it's trying to break through some of those regional issues into into more national debates and i think here we are in the same situation as we were in greece a couple of years ago who had the same discussion at that particular moment.

actually all those populist parties they talk about immigration but from being responsible of to people's desires to being responsible in how they handle immigration that's a whole huge divide and they rely on europe to actually provide that common framework to provide the resources and they rely on other richer countries to take on the bulk of the migrants because. that's how they will they think they will get rid of the problem so it's a matter of blame shifting they shift the blame around they they they pass the baton they they they throw the ball game in other countries courts so that's why i say that and the fact that there is a need to be some sort of central agreement that respects the kind of. intercourse is that each of those countries has ok well as respects the kind of problems that are there you have it ok marco let me go to marco and i want to stay with the issue of immigration i mean if you look at what donald rumsfeld called the

new europe and old europe ok i mean i lived in poland for ten years ok the poles the czechs and slovaks the hungary and they don't want these people they say we didn't create this problem why should they come here i mean there's no unity within the european union so kind of he said do you want to have a discussion about it well i mean a large considerable number of countries within the european union already think that discussions over the answer is no ok and so we don't go even in poland we don't have this caution is only scaremongering resonating with the people who has. never seen in their lives even in poland. but it's the light at the same time to all of you let it all go to marco their. respective if you've seen one or not you seen the effects it had on other countries and i think that's the demonstration effect that people are absorbing and i think

that's kind of a middle ground there ok marco in milan go ahead jump in you know i'm just going to be a great you know there are. clear wouldn't. say i don't see anything wrong. you know sign you're going to. want to or you know the same. monologue or anywhere else there is this desire are people not to change too much i mean if you close to two sides if you order to much sing then we'll have you know i see it in the law and. you know from that old song i want they don't want to open their song and still want you or you know so they decided something else actually they let italy go on with their mess national debt

. that in the past five years they let anyone in and in fact more than six hundred. got up this country in five six years so unless so it's really a big problem and it's also we're there are. things that it's not so difficult to break. maybe you want to. say that i mean it's a very normal thing. but if you were there are certain things or not say to. you and this might go to a little bit more difficult. ok well just it was that. absolutely every society is interested in making sure that they have sculptural references that they can keep i mean it's their culture their society and rapid change can be very upsetting to people i think there is historically we've seen that here they have

found us let me let me go back to let me go back to that in a way and. then let me go to theatres in london. another issue going back to the italian elections here is the euro i mean what is there is that the pressure on leaving the euro i mean we already saw it with greece being greece was not allowed to the amazing pain that's going to be happening to greece and will continue for. probably a very long time what is the message now in dealing with the euro we keep greece in our mind when it comes to italy go ahead be upon us and. we now have the same similar situation as to greece a couple of years ago with a referendum a recent polls do demonstrate that italians want to be inside the euro zone and use the euro which is very interesting because it contradicts their actually the kind of message that the five star movement and yet and leg. are putting forward so there is this kind of interesting dynamic of we want. the whole cake.

and eat it so it doesn't work that way for political parties they need to find a compromising solution. and the problem is definitely neo liberalism and it's definitely capitalism so perhaps the the answer is not to to to destroy everything that we've built so far but try to create a new paradigm that really tries to do to combine elements of kept a little weary let me jump in here a while we're rapidly running on a real in london when is breaks it going to happen got thirty seconds tell me i'm waiting well. brooks it will never happen peter we know that breakthrough will never happen and i would call this humpty dumpty politics because this is sitting on the wall. or once the march next year will come she will fall so.

we will have run makes it so something in between remaining you know going your way but. right. run out of time everything to the wall that to resume is sitting on i wish they would move to the mexican border as all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in london in milan and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at our d.c. you next time and remember across talk rules. well you know that they were kind of adopted because we were called pirates for so long. i've been there in the small ball of sticks in a hard pool of chips and it's standing. on top of.

the limited shelf to be told fish already ninety percent of the dot and it won't get conor. concept fifteen scoops seventy five tonnes they do it several times a day with a big fleet oh you get an idea why ocean. we have to understand we can not stay still and just. be within this the deal for you because. i'm doing this because i want the future world to future generations to have and enjoy the ocean we have. to see that the more and more people even more and more political leaders understand that letting you know that these migratory influx is

a three year old definitely does not serve the particle about the future of the european union. four men are sitting in a car when the fifth gets shot in the head. all four different versions of what happened one of them is on the death row there's no way he could have done it there's no possible way because the list didn't. in july twenty seventh team hunted a freelance journalist working with. militant shelling in syria. his second focus has established a holiday. they will recognize more reporters who often risk their lives for the sake of the truth and through the news you can submit to your published works in

a video form britain form until june the twelfth go to a little. as the leader of north korea plays host to russia's foreign minister is the only international to follow the delegation to kim jong un. if only someone told me where exactly we are right now this is how suddenly you get treated to cranberry juice at kim jong un's residence hello i can barely remember being given such access to locations around the world i'm absolutely shocked. this morning despite the prospect of a trade war the u.s. goes ahead it imposes hefty medium and steel imports from the e.u. and other trading partners. u.n. raises the alarm over the escalation of fighting in the libyan city of as the french president pushes for talks between rooting for.