the trump kim summit is back on the u.s. president says he will meet with the north korean leader in singapore on june twelfth spite earlier calling off the talks. on comes as the north korean leader plays host to russia's foreign minister with r.t. the only international challenge given access to kim jong un's palace. if only someone told me where exactly we are right now this is how suddenly you get treated to cranberry juice at kim jong un's residence hello i can barely remember being given such access to other v.i.p.'s locations around the world i'm absolutely shocked. and the u.s. blocks a u.n. security council resolution calling for an international force to protect palestinian civilians after months of deadly clashes with israeli soldiers. for the

latest on these stories you can head to our dot com because next discussing the rise of populist parties in europe stay with us. hello and welcome to crossfire where all things considered i'm peter lavelle italy's recent elections again demonstrate the e.u.'s neal liberal agenda is under continued pressure even under threat where is this grand historic project going how should we understand the italian elections the german elections and brags that in totality is the current leadership of the e.u. capable of governing effectively and in line with the wishes of the people it claims. to represent.

across talking italy and the e.u. i'm joined by my guest. in london he is a foreign affairs consultant and analyst also in london we have to have on this exact pillows he is a senior lecturer in european politics at the university of surrey and in milan we cross to monaco bus on the he is a professor of political theory at the university of milan or a german cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate they have on this let me let me go to you first in london we have somewhat of a crisis we'll see where it goes in italy we had the majority of italians going to the polls voting for parties that were against the neo liberal agenda of the status quo and i would also extend that to the philosophy of the e.u. and now we have a nonpolitical technical government and it looks like it's only a matter of time before there's going to be another election i mean where do you

see this going because on the one hand you have the elites worried about share values assets and that's perfectly understandable i think that any anyone in power be worried about that but then you have the democratic process i mean how do you balance these two because this is where it's going to turn into potentially a crisis sometime in the fall go ahead they found this in london yeah well they are still riding the wave of populism across europe the populist parties are gaining momentum still it was thought that it had stopped a little bit or retrenched maybe with the french election which he didn't mention. but we see again the need to leave now is one of the worst affected countries in terms of the economic strains it was the next one to go we were expecting it. in terms of the finance. or. capabilities of the country the turmoil

has been going on for the last eighty days or so. with the. appointment of the new government is the kind of the last element to this saga but we do expect it to be resolved somehow it's fine for for democracy democracy doesn't have dead ends it only has solutions so. i pretty sure that the solution will be found in italy now on the european side that's a whole different story because it is a mixture of technocrats and elected representatives and what we call euro kratz at the same time so i think that there needs to be a wider european discussion about the values of european integration about the prospects of european integration and about a road map of how to go about it and taking into account some of the issues that

have been highlighted. you're bringing up a very good point there let me go to marco in milan but you know my sense is brussels doesn't really care about what the people of the e.u. think about the strategy ahead because they don't have european union wide alexion on should we continue integration should we vote on a constitution that it's not done that way and i think that's part of the alienation of a lot of the publics in the european union theophanous brought up something they think is interesting is this a one off italy in a certain moment in political and economic and social history or is it really part of this wave that the infamous mentioned in london go ahead marco in milan. yeah i don't know. the european union it is no real cold war tool it's not out of the united states what it boils when single i see you are now you were in then

right now it's rare not that many. and it's a lot of who want. to sort of hide. and witness and to hide. then you know that you know i don't anymore so i guess it's really it was the only you only want this very much but there is no europe you know this more there is no like the real problems that are there you know nation. and the like or twenty years you're going to rule and to write which is. are you know it's certainly not enough there is nothing like you know and there is a lot of i mean. i just are changing very rapidly now and there's no problem here in this you know ok i want to write you write

a good ad really in london right now i mean i look at the election the italian election i mean and you know i may be wrong my impression was is that we had these populist parties on the left and the right. questioning the policies of the status quo in italy and the european project in general but they're not saying to get out of the european union but not yet now between now in the next election if there is no progress made and we could see the left and the right work together much more closely in the next election and if they do get way more than the majority then you may have membership in the e.u. on the table and it's moving in that direction. because you know the economic crisis there ever since the financial crisis of two thousand and eight to mean the perception is the banks were protected and nobody else it was all the direction of brussels and berlin go ahead in london. i think that people are

generally thinking of the idea of europe in hutapea and once a many political unders are seeing a resemblance between the. two you would say that there's a more resemblance between the collapse of the soviet union and breakup of the e.u. i think the e.u. and the soviet union. both of grind in the utopian idea. european union as a customs union yes. all europeans and all the people around the world are eager to do business but part of that we can see a huge disparity between the general populace. labor. general workers and elites businesses elites and this is going breaking down and

resonates with the populistic parties because we can see that some people in our society damage already the real majority is left behind. this is the main problem is that the political elites around the european union. live in the utopia and they are out of touch with the realities of the. common people so they are representing the big businesses the markets investors songs of all which are crucial to well being of the nation states but of the same time those very corporate and. what is their value with the common man. this philosophy doesn't hold water and i think of this is the main problem if the political elites around europe will not grass their reality. and find themselves in a very nasty situation. pushing us through to do. drastic

things very well said except for one word you didn't use you didn't use democracy and all of that and i think that is the problem here we have on this here being you know people talk oh no they don't i mean you know i mean there we go we'll go back i get back to you i'll get back to you have on this let me go to you in london. there's a lot of talk about this populist movement in the rise of the right but it's not the rise of the right it's the failure of home the status quo and i think you know the elites the end mean the media can't you know you can't trust these people to rule then you can't trust democracy you can't have it both ways go ahead theophanous in london this is probably one of the few times i'll agree with you peter is ok it is the it is the failure of of the mainstream parties to to to capitalise on the demands of the people however i would disagree with the fact that elites are completely. as disjointed or

in connection with the common people i don't really like the expression common people and i don't like the expression of the left behind and i can tell you why because it is really easy to fall into the trap of emotional language that populist parties are using good point i don't see populist parties doing anything different at the stage than what they have promised to do with that common people that they they claim to represent so in fact in this case i think it is a political agenda with high political stakes they want to go into power for their own purposes and i think. think that a lot of the people that they claim to represent are falling into the trap of becoming victims of this emotional language i think we need to sit down and rationally think about what the problems with the european integration program are

what the actual needs of the people are both in economic and social terms and see and find ways of being at least progressive in our ideas and practice matic in the way that we handle things on the ground ok peter finally got it marco and before we go to the break here i mean when you look at the leading parties in the in the last election in italy do you think that they are capable of ruling even though they've been pushed aside for the time being do you think they have the the wisdom in to be able to move forward and do capitalize on their victory go ahead in milan. yes you know i think they do actually want to see is the political class that they have used both that they're really like the lowest kind of. three mile line most of them are counted correct ways so

it's really easy stuff is pretty bizarre in the states these people are not exactly very cooperative but that's the story these are all those people who are who are the police groups what do they do usually you know one definition of political science is the people or the movements that try to exploit the fears of the blago marco let me not i'm going to jump in here gentlemen i have to go to a hard break and after that heart break we'll continue our discussion on italy and the state with our. well you know they are they were kind of adopted because we were called pirates so long. i mean they're in the small ball next to the hard pool here and it's.

not. the little self to be told based already ninety percent of the dart gun and it won't because they're. going to fifteen school seventy five times they do it several times a day with the big leagues now you get an idea like. we have to understand we can not stay still and just. be within this deed is the deal for you because arounds. i'm doing this because i want the future world to future generations to have and enjoy the ocean we have.

welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing italy and the e.u. . ok let me go back to marco and milan you were referring to the break you were talking about the nature of populist and populist movements right now go ahead. yes there are fears that the people have you know they feel they are letting. on and they do you know that you called it neo liberalism. makes me you know this is this you are it's like oh it's. we're in france in france and italy is about fifty seven percent i want to i really wonder what kind of stupid well. it's not the now

it's the neos. but it's a neo so it was a big business kind of problem as a you know it's a clue shoot big business big clearly there is a lot of big government and now it's you were before you were a guest was to go on u.s.s.r. and i would compare europe to the holy roman to. in the seventy's hundreds that had no effect whatsoever in european politics and in this whole area there's a sense these are all the norman arms are you know are. clearly it's not units not immune well it's european ninety it's that you took it but most of the people most people in new york just because believe it it's certainly not that in their lives

well i mean what was done hang on hang on here do you know it to be fair here there are a number of cases where the european union is genuinely popular in the european union and this is part of the divide among member states here and then let me go back to . in london here and again on the go if we use the italian election is a microcosm i mean the issues that were on the table immigration lack of growth the youth unemployment. you know do they have the tools because the the the populous parties will say that their hands are tied because it's brussels and. berlin pushing austerity you know is i just passing the buck because these are real issues with real voters and it seems to be all across the european union and i to talk gentlemen a little bit about brags that before we finish up here go ahead raylan in london. i think that we're missing the point of what was in two thousand and fourteen by the

harper's magazine was the. one of the process from the london school of economics professor john and gray. it was titled how germany could europe i agree with that statement obviously when it comes to immigration. deficit in the country so and so forth first of all we know the this is a problem immigration is a huge problem but this is not the problem of the of the european union or european states in the first place this is a problem which was caused by the administration of. mr bush when he started his war on terror in two thousand and two. so. the people who are to be blamed for that immigration must immigration for good from the middle east are americans not americans about their graham and i nearly you know

how do you have to be a hang on we've got to be fair here i mean and i go merkel said open the doors let a million people in it wasn't the u.s. president that said that ok i mean i get the gist of your point ok if you bomb people they can believe ok and they want to go to a richer place ergo don't bomb them and maybe invest in their countries so they don't want to leave ok so i mean let's let's keep it balance there they have honest let me go to you because. you know dealing with these issues immigration let you know they just focus on that one i mean this issue's been around for a while it's getting more intensified but it's been there and i you know i my knowledge of italy in the in the issue of immigration i mean for some communities it's dire it's dire people just walking off the beach i mean when you and all of us on this program when we go to a foreign country we get an airplane we go through life it take it we go through metal detectors we have our passports checked we were checked and now you have

people just coming onto the beach and walking in i mean that is something that if i lived in the telling community i would be periods about i mean it's the least of all the security issue go ahead the if i was in london yeah i mean this has been accentuated by the refugee crisis so we need to be a little bit careful about the immigration side and the refugee side. the same the same happens in greece but let me tell you something pete the majority of the people who voted for the populist parties have not even come across a single immigrant in their communities so i mean sometimes it's like bragg's it the areas that voted bragg's it in the u.k. have the least problem of immigration there are largely white british areas so the leg. narrative there is very interesting it's trying to break through some of those regional issues into into more national debates and i think here we are in the same situation as we were in greece

a couple of years ago and we had the same discussion at that particular moment. actually all those populist parties they talk about immigration but from being responsible of two people's desires to being responsible in how they handle immigration that's a whole huge divide and they rely on europe to actually provide that common framework to provide the resources and they rely on other richer countries to take on the bulk of the migrants because. that's how they will they think they will get rid of the problem so it's a matter of blame shifting they shift the blame around they they they pass the buck on they they they throw the ball game in other countries courts so that's why i say to them the fact that there is need to be some sort of central agreement that respects the kind of. intercourse is that each of those countries has ok well as respects the kind of problems that are there you have it now ok marco let me go to

marco and i want to stay with the issue of immigration and i mean if you look at what donald rumsfeld called the new europe and old europe ok i mean i lived in poland for ten years ok the poles the czechs and slovaks the hungary and they don't want these people they say we didn't create this problem why should they come here i mean there's no unity within the european union so he said do you want to have a discussion about it well i mean a large considerable number of countries within the european union already think that discussions over the answer is no ok and so we don't go even in poland we don't have this caution is only scaremongering resonating with the people who as my previous caller said rightly never seen in their lives even in poland. but it's that at the same time to all of you let it all go to marco their.

respective if you've seen one or not you seen the effects that it had on other countries and i think that's the demonstration effect that people are absorbing and i think that's kind of a middle ground there ok marco in milan go ahead jump in you know i'm just going to be a great you know there are. clearly. say i don't see anything wrong. you know sign you're going to pretty much want to or you know the same. monologue or anywhere else you know there's this designer are people not to change too much i mean if you close to two sides if you order much so then we'll have you know i see it in the law and. you know from the old all i want they don't want to know when their son still wants you or you know so they decided something else actually they let italy go on we're in

a mess national debt. that in the past five years they would let anyone in and in fact more than six hundred bags of. this country in five six years so unless so it's really a big problem and it's also we're there are. things that it's not too difficult to break. maybe a little bit more difficult. i mean it's a very normal thing. you know if you are there are certain things or it's not safe for you. and this might go to a little bit more difficult. ok well just it was that. absolutely every society is interested in making sure that they have sculptural references that they

can keep i mean it's their culture their society and rapid change can be very upsetting to people i think that there is historically we've seen that here they have found us let me let me go back to let me go back to that and. then let me go to theatres in london. another issue going back to the italian elections here is the euro i mean what is there is that the pressure on leaving the euro i mean we already saw it with greece being greece was not allowed to the amazing pain that's going to be happening to greece and will continue. probably a very long time what is the message now in dealing with the euro we keep greece in our mind when it comes to italy go ahead to find us in london we now have the same similar situation as to greece a couple of years ago with a referendum a recent polls do demonstrate that italians want to be inside the euro zone and use the euro which is very interesting because it contradicts their ective the kind of message that the five star movement and yet and leg. are putting forward so there

is this kind of interesting dynamic of we want the whole cake. and eat it so it doesn't work that way for political parties they need to find that compromising solution. and the problem is definitely neo liberalism and is definitely capitalism so perhaps the the answer is not to to to destroy everything that we've built so far but try to create a new paradigm that really tries to combine elements of cap to look at let me jump in here a while we're rapidly running on a real in london when is breaks it going to happen thirty seconds tell me i'm waiting will. break through that will never happen peter we know the breakthrough will never happen and i would call this humpty dumpty politics because this is sitting on the wall. or once the march next year will come she will fall so.

we will have run makes it something in between remaining you know going your way but. run out of time everything to the wall the two resume is sitting on i wish they would move to the mexican border as all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests in london in milan and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember across toggles.

you know. you never know what's around the corner you never know what's in the pub you're going to walk into a nice excitement is that not knowing that's where the adrenaline in much comes from. and you can use a nice blend definition and the extremes will support. the violence is a pov and it's that almost a schizophrenia can come true where you can do all these things and behave badly. they're going to be full of all this colorful it all for the both of us both more so for the last one. on this movie and infirmed little man knocked out of the role and good on follow us from the start. i would roll the way enough i figure out i really did a poll down down went up a little bit. of meaning reason is that at least if you don't win the involves it's

constantly evolving. my soul the sighing all peaked my interest so i went. to ask somebody what is this is somebody is going to get it and they tell me this is susan for they believe in waiting for the legal fishing oh my god will and that's kind of interesting.

it's. the words well you know the part they were kind of adopted because we were called pirates for so long. we're really part of. the world is changing over tactics such change things. looking for a lot to give them we've government needs to tie for them to wait like i'm sure they've all seen what's happened in europe i'll go fishing because mt the call to collapse there was just nothing to catch and now the european leaders here east africa guys already in a very bad state like then they got told us to have been there they still are just emptying the ocean so if you look at the situation in somalia the pirates can be argued as they used to be fisherman and then the foreign told us of fish.