the government. did not receive from the two parties. and you have objections name since that first of respect to the congress all due respect to the economy is very provocative view on. the programme for the election as sensitive as it is do you think such an idea should be put out for a popular vote because i'm pretty sure that there are some people within the italian electorate who thought that they have something in common the economist policy one of which. doesn't refer. to the action on the treaty but clearly. the problem. of the part of the group to leave euro and euro or against. the

platform that we have presented but if there is no such danger then why do you think mr someone who as you mentioned is a well established economist his serve for central bank he was a minister of industry before he is not some in a random populace from the street this man knows a thing or two about economics why do you think he was prevented from taking the post of the finance minister even on having the. economic vision that he has. because. the one we're discussing would have given. the impression the head voted against you in the game and i think. in using. at the beginning in trying to get. in the league. there are people which are respected

which. transfer to the market and to european politics a very different position now even without mr someone i suppose if government had raised many concerns with its promises of tax cuts of its promises off welfare benefits it's raining in massive dad there were even some speculations that they were going to lobby for its full cancellation do you still believe it was all about mr. general economic agenda which is still. someone i'm sorry is the leader. do you think that they perhaps have been some more general reluctance to see this government from prevent this government from taking the reins of power. the president. being for. the election of course we are concerned about. his ability of

the. program was a coalition. which means that they have to put together requests from. which means. very expensive. proposing. to satisfy the people. you have to do both and bulls are really expensive. thirty percent. from what i have read the leaders of both of the five star movement and the leak i'm not particularly deterred by the prospect of fresh elections if there was elections were held do you think the results would have been different. i think. they may. but if you are sure. new election clearly.

rule something needs to change because the italian public opinion is upset. but i'm not sure the majority will be have the risk of venturing into. europe. i think there are also multiple ways and how you can sort of had bats on that because some could argue. they tell and voters mean grow more resentful if they have to go to the polls again or you can argue that it would give them more time to sort of gather over these populism virus as if it was some kind of chicken pox i wonder how deep rooted if you believe the political mood in italy is is it more fleeting or is it more of a permanent nature. per month we don't know. for sure.

italy is. like a perfect school. is feeding by economic problems. of migration. and the continent which is together with greece being more respect. created deep into the public. i'm not sure. where the. italians are presented to alternative to the decision and election result would be. quite interesting that they are actually out of a cave far far more straightforward articulation of this issue do you have any concerns. and opposite result because many people thought for example that trump could never win the white house because he's ideas. we

are your life and we. have to respect something which. lets you. two years ago look like. all come to. join the. movement and then we have seen that. and then the leader of the party of freedom in holland drop the strong. and deny you. so. let's see what happens if and when there. is. now i think this. whole discussion goes to the very heart of what is meant by the democratic or even the european governance i'm sure you

have heard mr. germany should not be in the position of dictating in chile and i'm sure it's not as complicated or as simple as he said chest but there's still a question of how much divergence and how much autonomy should be or any other country be allowed in economic matters when it comes to. general line how much space is there are allowed and i mean. is that they view. them but they have to be very when you have. that. your is limited by definition unless you call for leaving that whole union all together and starting the new project that's. even and should be able to walk the implication is not on the table. at the.

table in any democracy but what i'm saying is that any democracy. need to be clearly presented with. but i would never dare to say. come to. well good to know about our own mr munder we have to change. on the. moment to be honest with you and to be perfectly straightforward to your i think there is a sense that maybe it's biased at least in this country and. certain ideas are not particularly up for discussion in the european union on certain issues so it is praised much more than an exchange of controversial ideas things. like. democracy effective democracy in other countries but that's. that's not the issue you are now asking me about and if you say that either the.

them across the country i have to say that i'm not because i don't want suggesting any of that i'm asking you specifically about the limits of democracy and there are certain people who have argued that you know on certain ideas the decision to join the european union has been made and that's over you should not be rediscussed saying that in fact that you can bet it would then be here try to because there is no procedure for leaving. and you know and you know what i mean. our allies the way as in many other countries we have been looking at the pain that is creating. and so this is one of the top to tell you and french and dutch and german and the ball did we can see the east and when they would. read that to see but as i said this is the third time that refutes least that italians when they voted two months ago they have not. that's chris mr magritte let us take

a very short break now we will be back in just a few seconds. in july twenty second take on an attempt to freelance journalist working with. militants in syria. so i want to sacrifice has established a holiday such as memorial day recognizing the reporters who often risk the sake of the truth and through that peace you can submit to your published works in a video along britain form until june the twenty.

radially reinforced rammed earth bricks is what they really are. this more than seventy houses about one hundred forty people with families living there. it's really a way of forming say a man. their sons coming in and heating their house and being stored in massive walls. sagebrush is the natural environment here but as we're containing the sewage and and using the plant starts to process the sewage we create our own little way system here.

welcome back to worlds apart to follow my green director of the italian institute for international political studies in madre about a year ago you were speaking at one conference on the middle east and north africa and you suggested that europe. has gotten a bit carried away with its fascination. with transformation it got used to seeing itself as this positive actor for change in the world. i wonder if you would go as far as to say that this fascination with transformation has come to buy if you're because some of the problems to be seen you're related to migration i think would be traced directly to this. idea of being a positive actor and striving for democracy in the middle is.

promoted by europe. it was. banned. certainly in chile in libya played a role i mean there were different positions that libya. taken but not. of the gadhafi. friend that's why i wrote and great britain obama leading from behind the school in the government. i was assigned the responsibility but i think you would know that arnold but i'm saying that. regional . here then we have been did it affect you i mean of course we can. ninety percent of the migrants. comes from libya. was

a very important trading partner. which is important as you know you can buy all you. need. to and. program for migration. so of course who are affected and we plead your right and relevant to. the. duffy in trying to find a solution which is not there yet. now one perplexing thing to me as somebody reported from libya ball before they got office matter and after that it was. the fact that you know he was as mercurial as he was he was actually open to change if only for a parent and i think he was also open to making his relationship with the west particularly. european union of it only a little bit better why do you think that slow transformation. wasn't

preferred. faster information. regime change. and we could discuss. why. and we could discuss for minutes on why. i'm not seeing that gadhafi. had to be what he was a dictator. we have been used to leave along in many other countries so your question was right. well it's convenient position from my point of view because you mentioned before that italy is quite resentful about having to deal with the migration crisis yet you kind of outsource responsibility for that crisis because i mean your interests were

at stake there had italy have calculated the risks on its own that's. random. that's not my personal opinion but do you remember the situation with the taliban government krises erupted was it the final stage of it was. old possible crime it was in the video weak position and that is when the. prizes are up to so it was a very again very delicate moment country and probably we did. some. as far as you know even know if. hold back a little bit or was it the proposal i'm sure you. sure.

now if you mention them that talk about their reference earlier that in two thousand and sixteen the word transformation has been substituted by the words the bill a station in the new global strategy for europe which i as a russian find rather ronit because the worst ability in this country is very often i would even say excessively often what destiny even mean in the european context now. because the situation gets worse and worse and worse and worse to the american decision. and. come through and it's clear that europe doesn't all great leverage in. russia longer than average america is uncertain and the big regional.

now speaking about this change in terminology substituting transformation of forest . it is all the more striking. to hear that in russia because over the last couple of months the kremlin started stressing change much more there is a discussion about revamping the quality of the russian government's fighting corruption possibly relaxing immigration rules tracked international talent investing in human capital all those things that we usually associate with the euro and yet all of a sudden russia starts talking about it when europe no longer discusses it at least publicly do you think do you take it seriously do you think russia actually wants to do though is that just rhetoric on the part of the. migration. i remember that. was.

a few years ago. even if. every time a comma gets. worth of your person but you asked me isn't that strange because the. people of. europe and no i'm not surprised these are the words. that. in china for the next. time. investing in the middle class. environment and he actually did. this he said just at the beginning. become to let china now you personally warned about the danger of

a possible rupture between europe on the russian sanctions which according to you could result in the isolation of. the european union and i know that danger primarily with this new. leaders like mr salvini what i can't understand is why it is not. meant to you know facilitate russia's efforts to become better. including by perhaps easing or lifting of sanctions. strong. relation between. require. russia and my comment that you are mentioning. the position. there yet government and what i will saying was that.

for a newly established party. government going to use asking for money asking for money to support their policy all the docs and basic income and at the same time diverged with a utopian view which is to go on with sanctions. until we have pressure from the states. and so we would be isolated and my point was if we have to go to brussels to other parts and get something for the program basic income and. how can we at the same time go at the same table and say we go on our way position with russia the sanctions for. your cranium crisis as i'm sure you would agree with me it was a very specific. time and i think if we are. on less

than fair i think we have to recognize that russia's actions in ukraine you may not like them but they were dictated by russia's very accurate perception of threat by nato i think from the kremlin point of view that threat has now been diminished there is no near prospect of either of nato either in crimea or in the a crane what's the point how long do you think it's advisable to keep those sanctions that keep hurting you that keep hurting us for something that cannot be reversed and i think would not be repeated on the. european perception and the russian perception. you know randi it took almost four years. for the next three days but let me let me be very very quick and the whole of this. many european countries. come to believe that we should get out of sanction and come to some of the ok

but let's be honest and. the decision final decision on this issue. has to come from washington. those washington is utilizing. the. war. in iran. into iraq he understand i mean they will not. marry trampin in their way because it's interesting to me how europe likes to portray itself as this principle values based and to what you tell me is it simply quid pro quo if the same way the trump perceives not. exactly. what i'm saying and i told you i would be honest is that the rule of america.

on issues like this. they're having trump in mind. and we don't. think that there is that currently the sanctions of russian. i mean i am surprised that you say that they should submit to blackmail that's what i'm surprised. this is what. china the american administration has not said yet to you. on iran or if you do not. like me. how did they tell i mean have you read this they mean by mr frum pay or you know the american ambassador to germany i think they expressed it quite specifically but what puzzles me and this is the last question i guess because we're running out of time is when the sanctions against russia were passed there was

a recognition that it needed to be done because a certain message had to be. well to the detriment of the european companies now you're telling me that when it comes to trying simply because you have huge trade with them. all principles have to be in the hall i didn't say that i sent some show would impose on values that we utopian perceive we have not inspected by russia that was a few years ago you asked me where the assumption can be waived now would that something has changed not much but something and i'm seeing the new seeing now is that we have someone else at the white house that who utilize is a strong the bot again and you know won't he utilize those tools regardless of what you do i mean you kept your word on and he walked out on the whole because if. you look at numbers. u.s. trade with europe. billion with russia trade exposed i want to export to

russia eighty i want to export to iran six so when a couple negotiates or boots on the table to europe. do you want to work with iran with russia or would to say will do you see in america european business leaders and european put it would say they win this week they will try to find a nicer form but that's the substance of your program is famous to be very on this program so i'm giving you your honest box the beginning go to crisis was on values which for european perception we have not fully and respected by you by russia and talking about ukraine i really appreciate your straightforwardness and also your passion or thank you very much for your time and i encourage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages as for me hope to see you again

same point same time here and while the part. r r r. r r. r . fifty years ago breaking within two cons again as a sleeping pill the dusty's would leave because the truth does. the scientific sweat terrible but not on the road as shown in dutch wonderful book love will be here not war. across europe. legal battles demanding at least some compensation something to wait till the physical

times itself as well that the comes to mind that the people who take this call it has never been able to justice and that has been the cause of. we have the privilege of being the most allied ally of the united states. send to see tool and many other alliances promoted by the west states in particular members and we also have the privilege of being the most sanctioned. of that to any group of countries so while it sounds contradictory it is contradictory and stunned this shows that pakistan will do what is in its national interest it will know it's just cool with the one real the other. politicians to do something to. put themselves on the line to get accepted or

rejected. so if you want to be president and. somehow want to. have to go right to be precise this is what will befall freedom or can't be good that i'm interested always in the waters of how. this should. so i'm. like. oh you know. it's just. it's just.

in the week's top stories the leader of north korea hosts a meeting with russia's foreign minister r.t. was the only international channel granted access to kim jong un's palace for the event. if only someone told me where exactly we are right now this is how suddenly you get treated to cranberry juice at kim jong least residents hello i can barely remember being given such access at the other vehicle locations around the world i'm absolutely sure. donald trump says his summit with north korea is back on after receiving what he called me a very nice letter from kim jong un. the european court finds the two countries complicit in the torture of terror suspects at cia black sites. and.