libertarianz how will changing ties affect the never ending war against the taliban and what will the realignment of pakistan mean for greater stability for the whole of southeast asia. chilcot as this it's a great pleasure to have you as our guest one more time good to meet you in person by entering a very much so a lot to talk about many things going on in your country elections coming up. soon the country have a new prime minister i mean you been finance minister you've been prime minister has anyone set your counsel. maybe asked you for advise well you know when it's a government functions the privilege of talking to anybody asking people what they think but the core decision making is made by the chief executive and the cabinet and that continues when i was in office that's what we did do but if you bump into somebody or you know somebody you can get another view. in pakistan one thing is

very significant the press is totally free and they go to all segments of society to get views and those used next morning and front of you so it is not a closed shop at all so you could be president you could be prime minister you know you get feedback all the time when i was in government i used to get through the press very open. criticism critiques and suggestions and what have you. i think what is more important is knowing what you want to do knowing what you believe and knowing what your principles are and your major priorities and then that i spent a lot of time publicly sharing them over the media events. physical meetings with groups of people every day the schedule had ten to fifteen meetings every day. so people as men do you do the thinking that's a good question it's a constant process absolutely but did you ever think of coming back to the

pakistani politics actively i mean you did great stuff my way kind of economy i'm not a politician technocrat and. that's why. to some extent. and my working style was very different eighteen hours a day seven days a week and. then but since i was elected i had a constituency for the election almost got killed in the process as you know and so on and so forth so it was a unique set up which was tailor made for that time so i want to take some of your views and. maybe suggestions so what's going to happen after the election i spoke to non-con not long ago he struck me as someone very charismatic but also very smart and someone who knows what he's talking about what do you think of his chances of becoming prime minister would he be the right person for your

country i think to me the right person would be whoever wins the vote at the ballot box if you believe in democracy and if you believe in the. responsibility and ability of the people to express their view the leader they will select has to be the chief executive of the country he has elected a good team of people as you know one person cannot run all the affairs of the state and the other party is to we have three main parties and then there are a lot of other important bodies who have religious leanings who have other geographic connections in certain part of the country and i think all leaders will . have to present their point of view to the public the public is much more politically conscious today than it ever was there again i give credit to the media if you look at the penetration of media in the country it has gone up exponentially which is very very positive so in terms of principal parties the current party

which is the b m l and has a big footprint and i'm sure they'll be active in incumbency can be a plus and minus that time will tell. then you have. the. people's party they have a following too and then you have b.t.i. which is mr party the you are more attracted to a party like that. they have. to run the province which is a very good thing i think this whole concept of political parties running a province for then going at the national level is a healthy concept because you get to understand the organs of the state and what makes things happen and what makes things not happen so i think the of but experience now than they ever did people's party has run the federal government and

the provincial government have sent and be a million has run by the job our largest province and of course at the national level they have been active so all these components of. the state have their own dynamics and their own sort of approach to handle that or to say that party it will come will be will come for me sitting and living abroad and not breathing the every day would be unfair but i can i'm really confident that the electoral process will be quite transparent again media is very important though you can't stop them somewhat aspartame except for the internal pakistani problem as well so touched upon whatever is going on right now between pakistan america that the fact that america is accusing pakistan of sponsoring terrorist groups and maybe thinking of putting pakistan on a temporary. terrorist sponsor list also cutting aid to pakistan oh

that so he said to me you know maybe american sanctions will hurt the country but following the american line will hurt pakistan in the long run even more what do you think i suppose you know history the history of pakistan u.s. relations can. go back some sparks was formed as you may know we were the most we have the privilege of being the most allied of the united states. sent to see too. many other alliances promoted by the west and new knight states in particular we've been members will we also have the privilege of being the most sanctioned. of that to any group of countries so while it sounds contradictory it is contradictory and this shows that pakistan will do what is in its national interest it will not just go with the wind one way or the other and if it means disagreeing with a friend or some other stakeholders if that is what national interest desires that

will be done you cannot always be. agreeing on every issue in the book so i feel very confident that our press is free it's plays a pretty active role parliament is active the debates etc that forms an influence as public opinion so all that all those factors being the the the executive which is the government in question can then decide what suits national interests as regards u.s. backstabbed relations i think boxed on it as a country. has shown to the us that when they really needed help after the situation. reached a stage which was. needed to be managed back stand sacrificed a lot we gave them bases we gave them won't fly i still want you to find that the war in afghanistan is costing pakistan a lot of the remnants of that whole election is pakistan alone our people are dying

up the. infrastructure is affected are there money stand yeah absolutely so i think this is. where dialogue is needed and know us as a new government so i haven't had experience with the trumpets. ministration but with president bush and his team. i thought they were very balanced and it is reasonable and i'm sure the government would also be the same way we have to make our case so if you don't mind i'd like to touch upon few points of us pakistan relations akeson has recently imposed travel restrictions on us diplomats and that's an answer of yours restriction to pakistan diplomats working working in washington do you think it's just a diplomatic tit for tat or is this a sign of a wider crisis between us and this is this was started by the state department

the united states and this standard norm whether it's pakistan or any of the country that if somebody puts restrictions on your diplomats in that country you at least at least will have the same restrictions on them in the host country. this should never happen because once you have a clue to the diplomat to work on the within the confines of the country abiding any security location where nobody's allowed you should have reciprocity and allow them to function there's no point they're coming to the country being a diplomat and they can travel after it to a certain area or after a certain time so i'm against these rules i see what's going on it's really there pakistan's decision to apply the same. restrictions i think is correct in the sense that it's reciprocal nobody can say we're not allowing our people to go wherever they want to go and you shouldn't go anywhere and i think the very essence of

diplomacy is contact and connectivity. and if you truncate that you are really sub reaching a sub optimal level in your diplomatic interaction so it doesn't help either side there are no winners or losers in this game it's a win win or lose lose at the same time you sat us pakistan relations were always complicated and at the same time just recently state department has called pakistan an ally and war on terror and that's after i think would mention that he wants to put pakistan on a temporary terrorist sponsor list cutting aid this diplomatic spat so it's almost is like it's sending mixed signals to pakistan how should pakistan in print interpret this only pakistan should raise the ante even more my personal advice to the leaders and leadership and foreign ministry is to raise the issue probably more actively in the press the united states is

a very open society and we must get to all the stakeholders through media through one on one interaction etc and the u.s. culture doesn't mind if you are open and blunt and they're not shy the seen all the issues and neither are people shy so i think we should be more more articulate and sort of open about it use the media use civil society groups us is a very open society so you can go to many think tanks and get your view explain and it sort of filters through to you can go to the press which is different than think tanks you can go to other civil society groups who may or may not have influence and that's how you get. closer to the country and get your point across every country must know the stakeholders in the other country they want to interact with and know how what is the best key to open that door that's what diplomacy is all

about so i think buck son is doing it but the. probably. mr as we're going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue talking to shout god as he's agast as former prime minister stay with us. radially reinforced rammed earth bricks was what they really are.

this more than seventy houses about a hundred and forty people with families living here but. it's really a way of forming same at least the sun's coming in and hitting the house and being stored in massive walls. sagebrush is the natural environment here but as we're containing the sewage and and using the plant stuff to process the sewage we create our own little the races out here. to. apply to many clubs over the years so i know the game inside guides. football isn't only

about what happens on the pitch for the final school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the super money just kill you narrowness and spending shouldn't twenty million one player. it's an experience like nothing else not to me because i want to show what i think what i know about the beautiful guy a great so one more chance with. the base and it's going to take. i we're back talking to shuttles east pakistan's former prime minister mr aziz china is another huge topic and it has promised to invest fifty seven billion dollars in pakistan it already has become number one or number one arm selling it

to the country it has initiated trilateral talks between pakistan and afghanistan now to my view this kind of help never comes for free there are always strings attached what do you think what what would pakistan has to do in life i have been closely involved in. pakistan china activity in my eight years in government first as finance minister before as the prime minister and. as a professional. coming from the financial sector you know our i didn't get involved for any personal gain or benefit i always get involved for my country's benefit. and i found them very professional very understanding of our situation so in my experience and i'm still active. and i visit china regularly i can't look you in the. there's no sinister or hidden agenda on either

side on the one one draw why would you complain if you are living in a house here in this beautiful city of st petersburg and if somebody wants to build a connecting that city to the rest of the country or even another country why would you complain and obviously you'll pay the money bags a lot of it is funded by loans but if you've been wanting to do that work for developing countries resources are difficult to come by so here you have. to improve domestic travel for your people and if you build roads if you build dams if you will water storage is generation is another area facts on is short of far why would i complain now it's fashionable to find sinister. objectives in any good thing happening to a country but i can i can do this is people so watch out what's the agenda the agenda is peace progress and prosperity that's all ok so here maybe you are true

technocrat i agree you're being very technical about things but i want to talk more in chip political terms with you if what you're saying is true and there's really no strings attached that brings the chances of pakistan and china being even closer as friends as an alliance even more so if that alliance happens do you feel like. we will see some of the breaking away completely from washington no i was just coming to that but i'm glad you interrupted me which is that none of this is directed against a third country not just washington there are many of the stakeholders in. all what we're doing is for our own good if you if somebody can come and convince me that you are adding thousand megawatts of power right by building a dam and that will that has some will to motive against c o neighboring countries be it india. etc. i would be the first to say that's not the

case so if i'm getting better roads better infrastructure better connectivity better digitise asian there's nothing technocrat of geopolitical about it is simply your friends want you to be more stable more strong and that's how you get alliances not alliances in a formal way sometimes they're asked to choose me i said well or ill to someone i know they're also selling their goods. all of lot of the it is tied usaid. they this material to you and frankly if i need generation capability and if a particular country is giving me export credit right china also does that russia has also given us loans when they built the steel mill in karachi they were the actually they the soviet union at the time built our first statement with

a loan and we paid because i was in finance i knew exactly what was going up so the point is we tend to look for the hidden agenda in my view is that the agendas are all open of course if a particular country gives you a couple of billion dollars to build infrastructure their clout in the country increases but they also selling their goods they're also generating goodwill and to me in the ecosystem you build for diplomacy all these things add to the brand of the relationship between the two countries and then there's also iran right and the deal is on the verge of collapse united states is actually trying to slap sect slap sanctions anyone who continues is a business with iran pakistan has boosted its trade cooperation with their own lately costly gas pipeline plans do you think all of that could be in jeopardy now

do you think like. pakistan will still continue doing business was iran regardless of legacy arrest to sanction countries doing business with it so you would not care about america no ask me interested as a sanction from the un or america we will then have a dialogue with them and see what the sanctions are we contributing. in the process of looking at sanctions by not following the we are doing something which is somebody dances no we have to by the. someplace so we buy it from our neighbor and the each case is different in nature of sanctions sanctions the loose . the type of sanctions imposed and very it gets very technical so obviously if there's a un resolution saying you've got to do something then we can do something but it's bilateral the flexibility is very much there. is the peace in afghanistan is

a never ending topic for pakistan negotiated peace in afghanistan seems like what the afghans themselves are supporting right. when you talk about us back ister relations you're being extremely diplomatic other pakistani politicians much less they seem like. they seem to think that maybe the relationship between the countries could be on the verge so if there is a collapse between these two countries in their relationship can there be a consolidated peace process involving all actors i don't know what other people say but i can tell you what i say here is that i have a pretty good understanding of the us also having lived worked for us for thirty years and. the us has a point of view but i think we can do business with the u.s. i think there are many ways to build that relationship the way the key to good financial management in today's environment is have options have different avenues

to get to the same objective and u.s. is not the only option it is an important option and we have always said we want closer relations and we want to excuse me grow our linkages with them but if it doesn't meet our national interest nobody can authorize it to be done so i think to give a general sort of or have a general view that anything the u.s. does will hurt pakistan is not true there's a lot of stuff we can do and we have had relations as i said we were the most allied of the us and then we became the most sanctioned the us but still even in that environment we were buying selling goods to each other and people were going travelling everything was not however dealing with the us is a very complex relationship so it has to be managed accordingly i mean you can run

away from that event but somebody is giving you aid and they have certain rules and regulations either you agree with them or you go somewhere else the united states would argue that the main stumbling point between america and pakistan is pakistan's alleged help to the. stream is group the the afghan taliban your former boss sheriff has admitted to it as well many other pakistani politicians the press has admitted to it and the general argument is it was support the tout taliban in afghanistan because we don't want india to go into pakistan into afghanistan so let's assume that's true and pakistanis arming the afghan taliban. is it is there no better ways to deal with india than supporting it who is i think i think look taliban have nothing to do with india so if anybody is mentioned to you please tell them to talk to me. back. and sole

objective on the taliban. and afghanistan actually more than taliban is to have peace in afghanistan pakistan will be the biggest beneficiary of a peaceful strong vibrant of the. we will be the biggest loser if understand is weak if afghanistan is has got a lot of. terrorist activity and other things happening who will be the biggest loser part of us we will be and this thing is very contagious terrorists don't recognize borders we should get away from this mindset do you know here's the line so they have a problem we don't know this thing blows like so we disagree with musharraf when he admits that yes i have to stand his statement is actually is and to the views we hold of the world but i think the congress of his statement. read several statements but not this particular one is that we sacrifice

a lot for them and then when he. enters they were called were being trained but in pakistan to go fight and liberate the country we were part of the whole effort with the united states and others that's well known to your country too but they knew exactly what was going on when americans are we don't know a lot of the blue you know out of context and say ok guys let's go. we are treating we are going to train you know it has to suit our national interest also so when americans are accusing pakistan of sponsoring terrorists and i know that pakistan is actually fighting a real war against terrorism at home against its own homegrown talents absolutely yes this is a fallout of what happened in the world it is weird to me because once again i'm not just getting this out of nowhere i'm stating things that politicians are

a country are saying or a lot of were you saying prime and former prime minister and i was sure evokes knowledge that pakistan is actually supporting him using other extremist groups for operation i was talking about the terrorist attack in mumbai and it's not the first you know usually with of understand this we're talking about. finally as a terrorist i read all of them so for me it's just weird how could a country be fighting a real war on terror on its own territory but then also be financing terrorist groups outside and this has to do with india and i think there is enough evidence that in the old supporting terrorist groups so i don't know what came first and what came second but if that happened then both countries become. part of the solution and part of the problem and that's what you're seeing i think then that's what if you see press reports in isolation you me not really get to all of

it but no country in their right mind will support terrorism particularly pakistan which has been a major victim and it's not just in one area it's all through the country because the citizens are free to travel so we are fighting terrorism with all the resources at our disposal disposal we believe that the solution to crisis in a. is not through terrorism it should be through economic development good governance and pakistan two parts and it applies to both and also if we get all create jobs open opportunities for people give them hope that isn't will come it has come down in pakistan but not in not completely eliminated thank you so much for helping me take good luck with everything.

so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy to confront cation let it be an arms race off and spearing dramatic developments only i'm going to resist i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. to see a good bye. this is the only. church secret indeed catholic priests accused of sexually abusing children can get away with it quite literally i like to call this the do graphic solution so what the bishop needs to do then he finds out that the priest is is

a perpetrator is simply moves him to a different spot were the previous standards not the highest ranks of the catholic church conceal the accused priests from the police and justice system to that end of that's known as the end and then i can flip out at tuesday's out in. this. case felt. like. i. was. like. oh my. god oh my god it's just.

that it's yours. the misuse of private data by scandal hit cambridge a little curious said to be discussed by british m.p.'s monday at the same time war revelation show that its parent company may be involved in harvesting data in yemen for military contractors. israel's prime minister heads to europe to persuade leaders to abandon the hard for the rand nuclear deal germany france britain a pledge to rescue the agreement after it was rejected by america. french authorities raised the alarm of a radicalization in prisons r.t. travel to the largest prison in europe the guards say it's overcrowded and lacks proper security measures.