but sometimes we go too far and there are elements of the past that cannot be ignored if we want to approach a country doesn't just mean russia china has historical grievances it issues with its neighbors with us with japan korea iran the shaw nine hundred fifty three the airliner shoot down we can't approach any of these countries as if it all started with each new administration and yet we tend to do that it's an american weakness it's also a strength but mostly a weakness but i also feel like fresh equals like the perfect enemy like the dr evil for america is a very good narrative for americans. having russia as an enemy is much more logical than this undefined terrorism thing maybe were show us relations are actually a victim to a perfect narrative that russia fits into a perfect enemy. there's there's something very important to what you're saying i

think it works both ways i think we have this reciprocal us in russia and america is a good enemy for russia and part of it is as you say it's almost psychological if it wasn't there you have to create it there's a tendency to find a demon or an adversary the black and whites the cowboy but there's also concrete things that each sides have done to help fuel that enemy image but you're right we are the two biggest powers in the world still china is. a century and that doesn't help and i don't mean to say the cold war is back the way it was at say in the sixty's seventy's or through the eighty's but we stand astride the world and we have this relationship that eased a bit after the cold war but then we both fell back into the old tropes and patterns so easily that is exactly what we and then talk about after the break so hold your thought there will take a break right now when we're back with robert english former policy analyst at the u.s. defense department will discuss more whether u.s.

russia relations have crossed a point of no return stay with us. going to. get a phone no i don't have what was the last time that you went on the internet no i am not used to meet these village is it safe to go. are you sure there is no actual music or is there a bit of all that maybe should be the baby doesn't cover his that is the. one who was going to say we're don't want it we thought. is dead as part of that

was a given give. him a. bit more work i was. previously yes' and no they are being false fall in love where he was the member of the society to. let. us know. what politicians do such as me to. put themselves on the line. to get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or something i want to be rich. have to be right to be precise that's what before three in the morning can't be good that i'm interested always in the waters about how. this should.

i. and we're back with robert english former policy analyst at the u.s. defense department talking about the current low point in u.s.

russia relations welcome back robert know mitt romney when he was running for president he actually tried to play the russia foreign policy card in his presidential election and he was ridiculed by obama it was like oh my god that is so eighty's bringing leshem back as a foreign policy car but then you know in twenty twelve the relations between us and russia story deteriorating slowly and then in his next state of the union speech he was talking about russia and then you know the second thing we know that the pentagon says that russia is the biggest threat for america so maybe actually romney was ahead of his time. and why why why did this car play out so well now but it didn't pan for him. well what you really ask is what's gone wrong with our relations since the answer is that relations have deteriorated both sides bear blame for that and suddenly rodney's seems pression seems farsighted although well

i think you said something like the greatest geo political threats. even in the pentagon i don't care what they put in that report i talk to defense department people navy people all the time they're looking at china right sometimes those documents and those pronouncements have a budget purpose in mind they want to get a new weapon system they're there they're sort of tacking to the political wind to appeal to some some of the district but on the whole our military establishment they know that china is a big but it's also convenient to say russia is doing this in the arctic russia is doing this in the mediterranean because it helps. them tell you because he's not going to upset china and american ties to china economic ties he can always claim there isn't a russia and you know people love it they go with it they're well with it it's like the old cold war paradigm entirely on this or that but this is interesting because you pointed out that i used to work in the department defense and i my research i'm a university professor now but my research in specially recently on the arctic

keeps me in contact with people who are in or around the defense establishment and when i ask about what's happening in the arctic why are some people sounding the alarm my interpretation of russia's new bases and new capabilities is a very sensible thing russia should be doing this to trade the environmental issues navigation safety search and rescue why is there this drumbeat of threat and they say to me we know it's not true that's political we actually think that russia is doing sensible things in the arctic we have managed to cooperate for almost twenty years since the creation of the arctic council in fact it's more than twenty years but we know that our secretaries at the top like to go to congress and say whoop and get. money for new weapons stations of this than there is to the pentagon people do well research people who actually know and see behind the narrative that's popular but then there's the narrative and american people assessing whatever it is that they hear and see in the t.v.

so when when you do things right or when others do things you usually imagine yourself doing it like you imagine like this is what you do so that's why the others do it for instance i'm sure like for americans russia crimea russia syria is the same thing as americans going to libya or iraq or afghanistan for that matter but really it's so much different because russia crimea is like united states and florida and russia syria is actually really handling immediate threats of homegrown terrorism extremism right next to the border it's not a will or over the ocean for us you know everywhere for america and war over the ocean that has nothing to do with proximity of your borders so do you feel like americans they actually see these one assessing russia's actions no differences as

an american actions are from russian actions whether it goes all the way back to the second world war and the feeling of vulnerability to repeated invasions from germany from the west and the need that stalin felt to create a kind of buffer zone of allied countries all the way to the present and what happens in chechnya what happens in syria in afghanistan how close those terrorist threats are russia americans have never fully appreciated the jew graphic vulnerability that russia's geography condemns it to they have a general idea that we're a great power we mess around the world russia is a great power they mess around we usually do good things we're not so sure about them there is a kind of sense of a quote but definitely it doesn't sufficiently taken do account the vulnerability of being in central europe. so you have said that there's a minority among us politicians should believe that putin isn't after upsetting the world order but he's actually defending russia's interests so can there be a non hawkish view on russia in today's united states that would immediately be

labeled as a pro con lean croqueted should be sponsored propaganda. it might not be quite that extreme but look i have colleagues i consider myself a balanced person with a lot of experience i was with ambassador matlock our former ambassador i would consider him in that league and their displeasure is thing in america and. you know it's it's dangerous to be too sympathetic to russia even when you have a good argument and can back it with facts the atmosphere right now is so rusa phobic that people are trimming their sails i won't say it's a mccarthyite mccarthyist atmosphere but it's a very toxic one i do think however. that walk made this point and he see it all and he saw reagan and gorbachev calm and make peace that it will take on both sides dynamic leadership to break that an ordinary person a fiona hill right in the n.s.c. or robert english at my university somebody else maybe in the white house probably

would be pilloried as being too soft being an apologist but someone really strong in the white house and respected i don't know if that's probably not bernie sanders i don't know if that's joe biden he's very anti russian i don't know who the candidate on the horizon is but i can imagine american president saying enough we have bigger problems and we have a call and poll tried to do that when he came but look what happened i mean this current president is is not the best messenger of a coherent policy on russia he had a good core idea i even wrote that there's nothing wrong you know why was he pilloried for saying let's try to get along with russia it's of the best interest of both countries in the world who can disagree with that do you think of his mouth . do you think if he somehow in the weird strange way manages to make peace with north korea then he would be like this. major foreign policy breakthrough and then

they would go for russia especially if it goes against all all the things the experts predicted and he still pulls it off could do that that could buy him some credibility and he could say you guys all told me i didn't know what i was doing and look what i did i compost something that obama couldn't and bush could i'm not sure that's going to happen but worth to happen it would definitely change his stature as a foreign policy leader as a regional break the mold kind of thinker i wish that could happen i'm not at all. all right so the main point between us and russia right now is that since the mid two thousand and xp wooden has been very clear that the current post cold war order is not reflecting of the world reality anymore that the liberal western left and of history it didn't happen that russia wants to sit at a table an equal say when it comes to deciding matters of the world and especially when it comes to put in his backyard i mean the post soviet area why don't the americans take this point seriously. no disrespect but we're

asking the same question again what's gone wrong because you the premise of your question is isn't this reasonable why can't it work as a policy as a basis for accommodation between the two countries the answer is russia and putin have been so demonized and again not without having helped some of that along themselves and our political establishment so quickly slid back into the cold war all right to. be fair occasionally fair everything that russia has done from the two thousand regarding the west has been at defensive action rather than offensive everything that west doesn't like right now in terms of whether it's crimea or whether it's ukraine it's a defensive action it's a reaction rather than anything else i am sympathetic to what you're saying about russia defending its legitimate national interests and if the shoe were on the other foot americans were understand how sensitive crimea is both strategically and

historically i guess what i'm saying is that the leadership on the two sides have almost stopped caring i mean the previous leadership i mean the obama clinton. and president putin himself they seem to have given up on each other and so when certain moves are made they almost seem to be done to give maximum offense and continue feeling that i can imagine well i don't know i wasn't there but i can imagine a russia defending its national interests in a way that doesn't help the hawks in the united states but putin has this image of such a hard guy. and i would only blame him for not caring about american public opinion anymore because it seems like no matter what he does there's an unfair response none the less what i'm saying is it's got very personal and you're right i was aghast when not only obama but clinton the we had. our national leaders

who are descended to comparing president putin to saddam hussein or adult hitler is that even in the worst states of a cold war there were certain lines we didn't cross in personalising. discourse definitely there and there was some respect and this recognition that that's just going to take us down a spiral unnecessarily so when i say that i see the training of our experts our foreign policy culture in the us as having you know gone to a huge step back from the old days of the wise men of his'n jurors and so forth this is what i mean this was inconceivable before this and it happens on both sides the demonization it's not just the americans demonizing although. i'm an american so i was very critical of our so i did that but it's under so certainly exacerbated personalizing our differences makes it so much harder later to come to the table

and we build something it's got so personal we now city. and let's hope there's still some hope there because people like you come here and then they go back and say what they really see and whatever really is happening is russia i still think that it helps a little by little but that's how the world changes could be that we need a common enemy again i don't mean another nazi germany it could be some climactic disaster it could be something the pacific think we should just start to respect each other's world views and realized course we sure things are done differently in different parts of the world and there's not just one america there are like how many billion people living in the world or just one russia we need. to relate your incense you know thank you so much for this wonderful talk for this interview had a really nice rest of the stay hope we'll meet again soon we were talking to robert english scholar of international relations what were policy analyst at the u.s. defense department discussing what are the prospects of u.s. russia ties going back to normal and that's it for this edition of sofia coppola's

see you next time.

f.o.c. i. golf. when a loved one is murder it's natural to seek the death penalty for the murder i would prefer and it's meaningless in the death penalty just because i think that's the mayor thing the right thing research shows that for every nine executions one convict is found innocent the idea that we were executing innocent people was terrifying it was just no way to present and that we were even many of the families

want the death penalty to be abolished the reason we have to keep the death penalty here is because that's what murder victims' families what that's going to give them peace that's going to give them justice and we come in and say. not quite enough we've been through this and this isn't the way. leap. oh my. oh. the out.

ok five of the world cup was action packed with england's laboring to a last minute two one win over ten years the country's pace all of it was sad to watch the game for. relief they really did make me think we should always take take home the victory here in boulder a relief to the need to help reduce the three in a way for the commitment to build are going to read about me. you have a great game earlier in sochi so belgium crush on the mob we know.

hello and welcome to our special coverage of the world cup underway in russia anglin time feats in tunis the info grounds but it was far from easy for them to talk until the ninety first minutes with harry cane of england saving the when we've been keeping an eye on the game with our co-host of denmark and manchester united goalkeeper peter schmeichel. and by you know neal. peter it was a nervy time and then first the chinese here daryn involved we were watching it first half they missed a lot of chances second half they didn't actually create many but got there in the end yeah they got the end and. i feel very very happy for the england boys because if they hadn't got there the next couple of days would have been terrible for them they would have been crucified by the end of the previous meeting and i'm not sure that they kind of go completely free because the second half was awful the way they played the second half it's not. it's not promising grade four for the next from

the games in the tournament but in the first half as you said they created so many chances god on his own had four chances he's with us today scored an awful. hurricane as i said the half time now it's a one guy you need to you think they need to fall for him if the chances falls for him they did and then he scores one of the things that of course we've seen in this world cup are the big guns not quite doing it england did it they labored to a two one win but that got three points on the board that cannot be said for argentina it can't be said for brazil as a lot of other teams so when you put that into context it's a good win it's a very good win because at the end of the day it's all about get three points and send yourself up in the group so when you win the first cooking you have three points already which means when you play the next game in this case then when they play a pantomime the next game they play that denise and. then. of course i think they

could be kind of on the evidence of how panama played today and did not very simply have to play every ten dance not not a great team absolutely not but it just sets you up in a different way maybe kara southcott could play one of two of the players that was working for him today. if you if you imagine they have won today and and this then become a must win game against panama then maybe he's not brave enough to do these changes so now he has an opportunity but one man he did do what he was on the field to do was hurricane of tottenham let's take a look at his first goal in the eleventh minute at peter no messing around here no no this is actually a fantastic state by has and harry cain is in the right spot he's the understands how you know you know how this situation is developing and he's in the exactly that spot because he is that good. a little bit of criticism for the goalkeeper or not

are just a good save and for in the first place you and i you know you say it is slow get it out of the six yard box up but just the fact that you've got to wait until radical i mean this is an unbelievable say and when you make it unbelievable safe like that you hope that is one of you to find this a ball falls i mean he could have done anything other than that i think unfortunately for him it was is his last involvement in the game because in an incident a couple of minutes before he got injured he got a shoulder injury and had to give up and come off the pitch at what happened after about thirty five minutes into that came in and found not happy at all a penalty given away kyle walker i'm not quite sure what he was doing no but. it was a penance of this there's no doubt about that yeah actually hit severe. very very low in the way. his opponents of the rules if you get somebody with the album you're all. clearly the spot. and i think it's a really take and wait wait wait wait go people make the first move and then he

puts it in the phone and that was really critical for it and it was one mana need thinking whoa what's going on here you know this is not the will of yes us is go die it's not this is not the way it's supposed to be supposed to be four five then up at this point and it's one one so both both of the england goal comes off a call. and both of them are headed on all in the first case from the from harry mcguire. so harry cain again finds himself in the right spot so you can see harry mcquire eyes as he had supposed and that's how it came across was ninety minutes and thirty seconds captain of the team captain of the team and this is the definition of a big player when we talk about the big guns the one set that really rules the footballing world then we'll talk about players like christiane owen aldo harry k. that what is needed for the team they turn up with the goods. very impressive very

impressive with very impressed with hurricane and so. enormous responsibility on his shoulders to not only score the goals but also lead the team and they. always have had a way in or behind it if we were to hear it on the drums or starting so this this this was a massive game for him and in many ways i would think that carousel escape the england manager was both musing about playing him he knew the quality of him but is he ready to play in the world cup and today's show and then won their game volgograd peter all over is done there for us peter just when we found out it was over a last minute winner how delighting in funds where you are. relief which is i think as we can now see instead did the happiness people have very very pleased certainly england fans very pleased with that when it's reflected in the scenes we've seen here in belgrade the largest body of english found

a louder strout of english fans was right behind that goal and its behind go away hurricane school that went on in that ninety minutes this was a game they thought they were going to win many of the england fans i think they felt they deserved to win it as things started not to go as well as perhaps they would have wanted there was chances that didn't go when you felt that in the crowd you felt the atmosphere drop it. but it became a little bit more tentative i have to say the two seasons have been very impressive very loud very vocal they will be a group to watch through this tournament the attitude of their funds who i think has been absolutely brilliant while it being here where when we were. really very sort of proto these are killers mark you know hopefully the second game hopefully the second game professional it is our best to look to you to do that before the game the hard being that british media reports other media reports about a plague of flies in volgograd which a thread into this from the game for players and also found so like how bad was the during the day absolutely horrific you know during the day horrible i was swarmed

with them i went for a room this morning and when i washed my when i went in the shower afterwards i think i washed about two or three thousand of them out of my head they died out in the evening thankfully i don't think they played any part in the game but it is a time games and both they could well be so little child. they've done a paper not say that's the game in the next time paloma get expected to win but then it's all about belgium yeah and this is what we're going to show down a minute because belgium didn't start the best but they came out on top white easily in the end kind of a not the best team have to settle a few times. belgium they did what i had to do today they beat them three nil yeah . looks comfortable at the end but they've been they didn't play well but then again belgium are one of the dark holes as one of the maybe favorites to win this tournament people in general think that they have a fantastic squad and it's not about keeping them playing the best game in the

first time around it's mostly to face one kneel down and switching yeah and you know that you know those kind of goals we haven't seen overnight that many of the caliber we saw one today that was a fantastic goal and then obviously when sunil luka rocco. who has a lot of talk about the cartoon this is what he's doing he's doing that this is i have to say that i was the cuckoo in sixty nine minutes seventy five minutes he did not the way to long for his at his second goal belgium's third goal love it didn't peter it was a lovely thing a great pass from eden has one of the better things that he did miss game and now he was on cell phone at all today and obviously if. belgium wants to have a chance or a shot at the world cup they need eden has to play at the very very eyes level and he didn't do that so this is how a group g. is looking after the first game in the first run for then belgium on top because of

goal difference and alongside that it's going to be a very interesting third game for both those teams you'd expect him to feet down in the peter you'd expect belgium to see often is he wouldn't you in the second round for the folks in these in the second half they they that got some confidence in. so there again they were trying to take the game to england. as we said before that with the game that but some of the best players are not even in the squad two sure injury so it was kind of feeling that way forward in the first they were all over the place they got organized so maybe just maybe it's a tougher test for belgium that it was for a good today but belgium i mean that's a say one of the favorites to win the world cup they should be tunisia just on not belgium have never won a world cup are they the team at. the may break that duck and and and actually add to that list of illustrious winners have won the world cup are they good enough to go all the way.