which is already a very good and rare thing for american it has been academic colleagues i have great respect for if you go to hell for her work i had her as an invite to a conference at our university in los angeles she knows the caucasus as well as russia central asia she knows trade and oil of economic issues i have and she's balanced right she's not an idealogue she isn't hate anyone can she have a real impact on a policy i don't know i hope that she's working quietly within the system and in tandem let's say with people like our new ambassador here in moscow jon huntsman was also known as a moderate a sensible person and don't forget he has experience in business international trade he's been in china and other foreign postings my hope is that over time people like hudson and hill will move this administration in a pragmatic direction but then we watched the revolving door in the white house at the n.s.c. and i don't know. when it comes to russia and people in russia it does seem like

the politicians to public they have a longer view of relations with the united states what i mean is russia scenario switch try to be friends with the guys in the ninety's and they were trying to be friends with the after nine eleven but then the americans broke their promise pushed a nato towards russia's borders and then there was serbia iraq except or etc etc. to the americans says decade old can continue to be one assessing relations with russia because it does seem to me that the media in america have. a much shorter attention span and so does the public we see the whole picture and they think well why cycle when you are so right this is a bigger problem even than you know the average journalist working in foreign affairs working on russia i have to remind them as preparation for their interview of me what happened five years ago it's as if not just with every administration but every turnover of the bureau staff no americans. you know we tend to approach

everything as if we can start from scratch it's a very enduring and positive characteristics of america a kind of can do overcome the obstacles don't get stuck in the past but sometimes we go too far and there are elements of the past that cannot be ignored if we want to approach a country that doesn't just mean russia china has historical grievances it issues with its neighbors with us with japan korea iran the shaw nine hundred fifty three the airliner shoot down we can't approach any of these countries as if it all started with each new administration and yet we tend to do that it's an american weakness it's also a strength but mostly a weakness but i also feel like fresh equals like the perfect enemy like the dr evil for america is a very good narrative for americans. having russia as an enemy is much more logical than this undefined terrorism thing maybe

we're show us relations are actually a victim to a perfect narrative that russia fits into perfect enemy. there's something very important to what you're saying i think it works both ways i think we have this reciprocal us in russia and america is a good enemy for russia and part of it is as you say it's almost psychological if it wasn't there you have to create it there's a tendency to find a demon or an adversary the black and whites the cowboy but there's also concrete things that each sides have done to help fuel that enemy image but you're right we are the two biggest powers in the world still china is. the lead in a century and that doesn't help and i don't mean to say the cold war is back the way it was and say in the sixty's seventy's or through the eighty's what we stand astride the world and we have this relationship that eased a bit after the cold war but then we both fell back into the old tropes and patterns so easily that is exactly what we and then talk about after the break so

hold your thought there will take a break right now we're back with robert english former policy analyst at the u.s. defense department will discuss more whether u.s. russia relations have crossed a point of no return stay with us. the trump juggernaut continues on all fronts is he remaking the western world or merely isolating the u.s. also is north korea coming out of the cold and much much more on this edition of crossfire. i would hope to do something to. put themselves on the line. to get accepted or

rejected. so when you want to be president and she. wanted. to do it. this is what. you want to get. interested always in the law. and we're back with robert english former policy analyst at the u.s. defense department talking about the current low point in u.s. russia relations welcome back robert know mitt romney when he was running for president he actually tried to play the russia foreign policy card in his

presidential election and he was ridiculed by obama it was like oh my god that is so eighty's bringing russia back as a foreign policy car but then you know in twenty twelve the relations between us and russia started deteriorating slowly and then in his next state of the union speech he was talking about russia and then you know the second thing we know that the pentagon says that russia is the biggest threat for america so maybe actually romney was ahead of this time. and why why why did this card play out so well now but it didn't for him. well what you really ask is what's gone wrong with our relations since the answer is that relations have deteriorated both sides bear blame for that and suddenly rodney's seems pression seems far sighted although well i think he said something like the greatest geo political threats. even in the pentagon i don't care what they put in that report i talk to defense department

people navy people all the time they're looking at china right sometimes those documents of those pronouncements have a budget purpose in mind they want to get a new weapon system they're there they're sort of tacking to the political wind to appeal to some some of the district but on the whole our military establishment they know that china is a big but it's also convenient to say russia is doing this in the arctic russia is doing this in the mediterranean because it helps. them tell you because he's not going to upset china and american ties to china economic ties he can always blame everything on russia and you know people love it they go with it they're well with it it's like the old cold war paradigm entirely on this or that but this is interesting because you pointed out that i used to work in the department defense and i my research i'm a university professor now but my research in specially recently on the arctic keeps me in contact with people who are in or around the defense establishment and when i ask about what's happening in the arctic why are some people sounding the

alarm my interpretation of russia's new bases and new capabilities is a very sensible thing russia should be doing this to trade the environmental issues navigation safety search and rescue why is there this drumbeat of threat and they say to me we know it's not true that's political we actually think that russia is doing sensible things in the arctic we have managed to cooperate for almost twenty years since the creation of the arctic council in fact it's more than twenty years but we know that our secretaries at the top like to go to congress and say whoops and get to my. for a new weapon say she says then there is the pentagon people do well research people who actually know and see behind the narrative that's popular but then there's the narrative and american people assessing whatever it is that they hear and see in the t.v. so when when you do things straight or when others do things you usually imagine

yourself doing it like you imagine like this is what you do so that's why the others do it for instance i'm sure like for americans russia crimea or russia syria is the same thing as americans going to libya or iraq or afghanistan for that matter but really it's so much different because russia crimea is like united states and florida and russia syria is actually really handling immediate threats of homegrown terrorism extremism right next to a border it's not a will or over the ocean for us you know everywhere for america and war over the ocean that has nothing to do with proximity of your borders so do you feel like americans they actually see these one assessing russia's actions no differences as an american actions are from russian actions whether it goes all the way back to the second world war and the feeling of vulnerability to repeated invasions from

germany from the west and the need that stalin felt to create a kind of buffer zone of allied countries all the way to the present and what happens in church you know what happens in syria in afghanistan how those terrorist threats are russia americans have never fully appreciated the jew graphic vulnerability that russia's geography condemns it to they have a general idea that we're a great power we mess around the world russia is a great power they mess around we usually do good things we're not so sure about them there is a kind of sense of a quote but definitely it doesn't sufficiently taken do account the vulnerability of being in central europe. so you have said that there's a minority among us politicians should believe that putin isn't after upsetting the world order but he's actually defending russia's interests so can there be a non hawkish view on russia in today's united states that would immediately be labeled as a pro con lean croqueted should be sponsored propaganda. it might not be quite that

extreme but look i have colleagues i consider myself a balanced person with a lot of experience i was with ambassador matlock our former ambassador i would consider him in that league and their displeasure is thing in america and. you know it's it's dangerous to be too sympathetic to russia even when you have a good argument and could back it with facts the atmosphere right now is so rusa phobic that people are trimming their sails i won't say it's a mccarthyite mccarthyist atmosphere but it's a very toxic one i do think however. that walk made this point and he see it all and he saw reagan and gorbachev calm and make peace that it will take on both sides dynamic leadership to break that an ordinary person a fiona hill right in the n.s.c. or robert english at my university somebody else maybe in the white house probably would be pilloried as being too soft being an apologist but someone really strong

in the white house and respected i don't know if that's probably not bernie sanders i don't know if that's joe biden he's very anti russian i don't know who the candidate on the horizon is but i can imagine american president saying anough we have bigger problems and we have a call and poll tried to do that when he came but look what happened i mean this current president is is is not the best messenger of a coherent policy now on russia he had a good core idea i even wrote that there's nothing wrong you know why was he pilloried for saying let's try to get along with russia it's of the best interest of both countries in the world who can disagree with that do you think of his mouth . do you think if he somehow in the weird strange way manages to make peace with north korea then he would be like this. major foreign policy breakthrough and then they would go for russia especially if it goes against all the things the experts predicted and he still pulls it off could do that that could buy him some

credibility and he could say you guys all told me i didn't know what i was doing and look what i did i caught with something that obama couldn't and bush could i'm not sure that's going to happen but worth to happen it would definitely change his stature as a foreign policy leader as a regional break the mold kind of thinker i wish that could happen i'm not at all that it would be. all right so the main point between us and russia right now is that since the mid to thousands putin has been very clear that the current post cold war order is not reflecting of the world reality anymore that the liberal western left and of history it didn't happen that russia wants to sit at a table an equal say when it comes to deciding matters of the world and especially when it comes to put in his backyard i mean the close soviet area why don't the americans take this point seriously. no disrespect but we're asking the same question again what's gone wrong because you the premise of your

question is isn't this reasonable why can't it work as a policy as a basis for accommodation between the two countries the answer is russia and putin have been so demonized and again not without having helped some of that along themselves and our political establishment so quickly slid back into the cold war all right to. be fair occasionally fair everything that russia has done from the two thousand regarding the west has been at defensive action rather than offensive everything that west doesn't like right now in terms of whether it's crimea or whether it's ukraine it's a defensive action it's a reaction rather than anything else i am sympathetic to what you're saying about russia defending its legitimate national interests and if the shoe were on the other foot americans would understand how sensitive crimea is both strategically and historically i guess what i'm saying is that the leadership on the two sides

have almost stopped caring i mean the previous leadership i mean the obama clinton . and president putin himself they seem to have given up on each other and so when certain moves are made they almost seem to be done to give maximum offense and continue feeling that i can imagine well i don't know i wasn't there but i can imagine a russia defending its national interests in a way that doesn't help the hawks in the united states but putin has this image of such a hard guy. and i would only blame him for not caring about american public opinion anymore because it seems like no matter what he does there's an unfair response none the less what i'm saying is it's got very personal and you're right i was aghast when not only obama but clinton the we had. our national leaders who are descended to comparing president putin to saddam hussein or adult hitler

even in the worst days of the cold war there were certain lines we didn't cross in personalising. discourse definitely there and there was some respect and this recognition that that's just going to take us down a spiral unnecessarily so when i say that i see the training of our experts our foreign policy culture in the us as having you know gone to a huge step back from the old days of the wise men of his'n jurors and so forth this is what i mean this was inconceivable before this and it happens on both the demonisation it's not just the americans demonizing although. i'm an american so i was very critical of our side of that but it's understood certainly exacerbated personalizing our differences makes is so much harder later to come to the table and we build something it's got so personal we now city. and let's hope there's still some hope there because people like you come here and then they go back and

say what they really see and whatever really is happening is russia i still think that it helps a little by little but that's how the world changes could be that we need a common enemy i don't mean another nazi germany it could be some climactic disaster it could be something the pacific think we should just start to respect each other's world views and realize that course we should things are done differently in different parts of the world and there's not just one america there are like how many billion people living in the world or just one russia we need to be really sure and since you know thank you so much for this wonderful talk for this interview have a really nice rest of the stay hope we'll meet again soon we were talking to robert english scholar of international relations were policy analyst at the u.s. defense department discussing what are the prospects of hugh us russia ties going back to normal and that's it for this edition of sofia coppola's see you next time .

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executed. i perform sixty two next years and the seventeen years. people don't recommend the death penalty the jury the judge if they had performed the execution i think that. in light a different story on given a definite it when. the united states is the last country in the developed west to execute criminals. about fifty percent of americans are for the death penalty and fifty percent against it.

our capital punishment system is flawed this is not a matter of vengeance it's a matter of just the best that we believe serves as a turn capital punishment is tainted by racial disparity having my father's killers executed in bringing a sense of closure is it to restore society or is it an issue if you take a life should your life be taken and justice is about us as a society. nine hundred eighty two was my first execution. i was a correctional officer. one of my main jobs were to save lives so when it came down to execution i had to transform myself into a person that would take a life. gerry givens was appointed executioner in one thousand nine hundred seventy

seven when the united states reinstated the death penalty. he grew up in the housing projects of richmond virginia. and remembers one tragic night at a party. when i was a teenager i witness a young lady. shot down by oh my. i want to. quote a young lady because. i was. told it. might be is that if a person take a life of about a person in that person's life taken and asked what i believe. gerry received training to operate the electric chair and later to administer a lethal injections. he became chief executioner in one thousand nine hundred two. i would say my team members take pride in the work that preparations. get in this person and ready place next step in life prepare him just to see is he

it's for the last time and. a last kiss of his mother sister amy's wife or daughter . and all of human you know and this is one human that had made a mistake and we had to carry out the orders. outside of this team of eight jerry told no one about his work as an executioner not even his wife. we'll keep it a secret and i kept it a secret from my my family. since one thousand nine hundred seventy seven other executioners across the united states have put over a thousand four hundred sixty people to death it's a punishment that's supposed to be reserved for the worst of the worst.

it was a gorgeous day it was a beautiful morning we met some friends in boston and. twenty three thousand runners and half a million spectators gathered for the boston marathon. karen brossard her husband and daughter which cheering a friend over the finish line. we were there for maybe ten or fifteen minutes all excited with the crowd watching everybody come through and suddenly it was this incredibly loud. explosion. was. there were seven of us there six of us were injured. one of our their friends lost both of my legs that.

i knew that my husband was pretty badly injured. my daughter had shrapnel from her hip. and i had trapped knowing both of my legs. the two blasts injured over two hundred sixty people and killed three including krystal campbell. and eight year old martin richard. police pursue two brothers in a dramatic manhunt. twenty six year old tamar alonzo my was killed the machine gun. again later police captured the younger brother dzhokhar a life. over

the next few months karen brown in their daughter like many of the bombing victims had to undergo multiple surgeries. i want to try to not let this change who i am i'm not going to let this prevent me from living the life that i want to live. i'm not going to be afraid. later that summer karen traveled from a home in new hampshire to boston and i observe raymond at the federal court. we were all seated together and he walked out he didn't look at any of us but his hand was obviously entered and my immediate response was i hope that her i hope it's painful. that was. not like me.

and the recognition of that about me was scared because that isn't who i am. a of pled not guilty to all thirty counts seventeen punishable by death. the federal prosecutor asked victims if the u.s. should seek the death penalty. i don't know. i don't know. i don't know what justice is. i thought i knew. terrorist acts are rare much more common are the murders and other violent acts that happen every day across the united states. in philadelphia shannon schieber was finishing her first year of graduate school. she had been up studying it was

early thursday morning her for i would say it was friday morning. about two o'clock in the morning she was preparing to take a bath. the assailant who who attacked her. he pried open her sliding door. she screamed for help as she was being attacked the next door neighbor heard that he called nine one one. but. he told him that he heard his neighbor cheryl scream for help and he heard like a choking he said. the police arrived within twenty minutes they knocked on the door but no one answered.

the next day when shannon didn't show up for a lunch date with her brother shawn he drove to her apartment building. or lucy and its neighbors came down and answered the door and sean said i'm trying to reach my sister i can't reach her. the guy just with pale face oh my god i called the police last night they were running up the steps they broke open her door and she was laying naked on her bed. by the time we got to philadelphia though the police were swarming around the apartment building and they let us know immediately that she had been attacked and that she had been murdered.