so as this budget. day nine of the fifo world cup is over as our team continues its coverage of football's biggest event friday's last game in clinton grabbed sees its share of drama with at least a last minute comeback in groups these are not between switzerland and serbia. in other games on friday nigeria beats iceland racking up their first points of the tournament while brazil puts an end to costa rica's dream of taking home the winner's trophy. and of course the world cup would mean very little without the fans who have

flocked to russia from all over the world are he has been catching up with many of them like this iceland supporter who shared his excitement. this crime task that. has surprised us all by its hospitality. how everything is easy and. more football coverage for you plus the latest world news only an hour away but up next cross talk discusses the migrant influx which has left western nations in crisis stay with us. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle all across the western world the so-called melting pot is melting down i mean.

legal and illegal is probably the most contentious and divisive issue energizing voters in italy for example the right and left have united on the issue in germany the government may collapse and trump has made this his signature cards can the status quo be sustained. stocking immigration i'm joined by my guest john laughlin in paris he's a historian and specialist in international affairs we have roland benedict or he is the co-director of the center for advanced studies eurex research and in her god that we have niemeyer he is a german journalist and author all right gentlemen cross talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it and i do go to john first in paris and i just kind of kick this whole discussion off by an observation i've had over the last few weeks and months particularly with the events going on in the united states it appears that virtue signaling has replaced

policy and debate because all we're supposed to do is to think emotionally about this and not use our heads and i think this is what the establishment media and establishment parties want us to think that way to address this issue and if we stop birches signaling maybe we could come up with some solutions your thoughts john. well there's a lot of propaganda involved isn't there peter i mean we've just seen in the events on the mexican border these very propagandistic pictures of children are supposedly being separated from their parents i'm sure your viewers will remember the picture of the poor little kurdish boy on a turkish beach the dead body of a little boy he was a victim of the migration crisis in the broadcast of his photo was used to elicit sympathy for the plight of migrants and it worked very well but when boy of the same age was killed in a terrorist attack in barcelona the policy was not to. so his dead body out of

respect for him and for his family so we can see that these images are being used to drive a political agenda and that is the problem the problem is that this immigration is being driven by a political agenda it is being driven by a political agenda of european states who are demographically weak the demographic pyramid is inverted there are more old people the young people and for many years and decades now economists and policymakers have decided that in order to rectify this demographic problem in europe we need immigration we need to bring in people from outside in order to pay our pensions and that is the immigration issue. and as long as that ideology remains in place as long as the ideology is believed by these people as it is most notably in germany then i'm afraid the problem will continue ok roland you know thing is that this this is approach with open borders but if you

believe that there are open borders then there are no borders to defend i think that's the paradox of what's happening in the western world you want to have open borders let people come in but then you can't defend your border when it's necessary go ahead roland. well. look there is no starts saying like a little political entity or a community without borders never in history and unique borders wide because you have to define delimits not related to the few laws and that is what the left the school at frankfurt school you're going to must says what their system series says so borders that something good they're not something bad when we had the in europe. very strongly left this story and that political correctness really believed in politics on new phoenician of identity and for example descending group and indeed the excelled of the european

consortium on political research and in brussels would say today is that we need to define our identity and syrup against much more in our european way right and in a less exaggerated cosmopolitan way because we can't live without borders because if you have no borders you have no rule of law and order finish and you know where you lost the valley and we're not ok let me go to you i mean ok we have a lot of consensus here the media is for open borders the political classes for open borders but you know what the voters are for open borders and we're seeing it in election after election i mean isn't it time that democracy be recognized again in the european union i mean we have the austrians we have the italians we have also a new car i could use term fifth column in germany right now that it's waking up to what voters want to and they're running on these issues go ahead ralph. yes of

course it is true that bordeaux mirth i must say of leftists and i don't like calling myself of after. at stake because it takes a lot worked out fine. behind those people who already live in our country and we did not take care of them refugees have nothing to do with the fact i do pathogens them up good enough anymore this was due to privatization of the pension scheme or that of asia good enough or that the rent is too high for apartments those are not due to the refugee crisis but it came up with people are realizing that every left behind and they said hang on a minute part of us are as well so this is but a leftist made a key mistake in recent years and especially given two thousand and fifteen happened mrs merkel once and called it a decision he said be a shock to us you are going to manage it down and people said why don't we manage

with ourselves first of course there's a right wing nationalistic. parties are coming up because they take voter sentiment serious. to do that and especially the german baptists have failed completely and that they stood amount of border like. there were no borders and no states which is of course not true there are states and beneath states of course and otherwise we have a mickey no one wants to live and i know you must think does this also go bring style and america government because she lost control yet the journey you know the the interesting thing is that with these waves of migrants or asylum seekers who are never term you want because it seems to me most of them vast majority of for economic immigrants here but you know they don't really come in on the lair jets do they to germany they don't you know they don't fly into airports they kind of walk through the continent you know that's what makes me feel really bad for the greeks

and the italian so ok i mean if germany wants those people fine but it's not being done the right way even according to e.u. law it's ok so i mean the germany cannot be that the decision maker of. gratian in europe it is intensely and i democratic and against the rules of the european union go ahead john you know there's no doubt that the rules are being broken because indeed germany by saying that a million refugees are welcome and then by trying to offload them onto other members of the european union worlds indeed breaking refugee law and breaking the european union's own rules that's for sure i'm in strong agreement with what roland said about borders and the need to protect them but i have a different conclusion i disagree that this is a european problem and indeed i think that the or that this can be solved with european measures and i think that the the reflex position of european leaders

which is to say that we need a european solution to this problem is precisely wrong it is precisely the fact that we have a european union with a borderless internal space the showing an area which has caused the migration problem in the first place i first visited the song at camp near cali in the late one nine hundred ninety s. the migration crisis that we're talking about now didn't start in two thousand and fifteen it started in the one nine hundred ninety s. when italy joined the schengen zone and from that moment onwards the borders of the mediterranean were on the english channel yeah and it's there is a direct relation of cause and effect and what we saw in two thousand and sixteen after hungary and creation and the other countries built fences to close off the balkan route is that national solutions are the ones that solve this problem not european ones and we are now i hope seeing the same result with the italians who

are taking matters into their own hands nationally defending their national territory and it's only by doing that with because they have that the navy they have the ability to do it that this solution will end prior to the. position of national solutions have it was and it's a very bad structural problem in the e.u. it was that countries would simply let the migrants in like greece and italy and then send them north to germany in other words they were there were bigger the neighbor policies which is a structural problem in the view so i think we need to finish with this idea that the solution is european the problem is european role in the the arguments that the left in the media have made is that and it's already been mentioned this program i think it was you demographics the need the need for workers new workers but i mean looking at the evidence i don't see a lot of these migrants particularly since two thousand and fifteen are employed across the european union they do take state benefits and in most of the country

the european union have austerity so you have very large youth unemployment so why the same poles to keep bringing in more people and less it just cheap labor go ahead roland. you know indeed this is. especially if we can go count the current trend to work out some of the station. large parts of the traditional labor force especially blue collar workers will be dismissed over the coming years and unfortunately most of those who cross. to europe do not have an indication do not have any kind of qualification and a recent study of being in a ministry of labor. that it was very difficult to qualify more than twenty to twenty five percent of all combing over the coming years to get a job and you track the job acceptance rate employment rate of migrants and

refugees is very low so this is indeed a problem and this is a myth in delhi's partly to being dismissed because it will always less correspond to the truth but let me just say. so i'm saying to my previous speaker and in many ways of his opinion that we need a dramatic change in immigration policy because we cannot go on like this and i think more and more you have shown just it is as the recent elections all over europe have shown ok on the other hand i gentlemen i have to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on immigration stay with our kids.

i. was. i. i. played for many clubs over the years so i know the game and so i got. the ball isn't only about what happens on the pitch to the final school it's about the passion from the fans it's the age of the super money kill you narrowness and spending you're getting twenty million. it's an experience like nothing else on to because i want to show what i think what i know about the beautiful guy

a great one more chance for. the next minute. this is says harlan kentucky. the boy says he was very funny. a co money since he was almost no coal mines left. the jobs are gone all the polis a said. that it was love to see these people a survivor was disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that if anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in a million years i would see that and it's how it's happened.

welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter belcher much we're discussing immigration. ok let's go back to roland you want me right before we do the rick you want to finish your point please do. you know i just wanted to say that i am not going into this of the same opinion in one crucial point which is i think we need more of europe and not lesser europe to solve the crisis and i give you a practical example today we have to harmonize the as the laws and it is the most urgent issue to solve today it is possible that a migrant that is not accepted in one country for example in germany can just switch country and restart applying in another country for example it needs a leader in france and if you doesn't succeed he or she doesn't succeed there they

just switch on and go we have to how to monetize their loss to accept a single m c because we have to harmonize to reduce duration and of course we have to harmonize that the collaboration of secure the country so the regent for example germany has the clear parts of afghanistan a secure country and doesn't accept the salem sea because they just sweep streets a league in their accepted because italy has not declared parts of afghanistan to secure so we have urgently to find transnational european solutions for these problems otherwise we will not be able to stop the crisis ok i just can see in paris john is really disagreeing let me go to ralph well quickly it seems to me that roland you want to create the united states of europe and everything to date shows that's not what people want no one ever asked the europeans if they ever wanted that route let me go to you are not a very important issue there isn't being brought up here and this applies to the

united states and europe is that there are criminal gangs making a fortune off of this scam ok bringing people in their n.g.o.s you know they do gooders but no they're blinded by ideology they're there pat they're ideologically possessed they have a hatred for their own culture a hatred for europe they want to just wipe it away and fill it up with foreign alien people i'm sorry to sound so politically incorrect but that is true. particularly the criminal gangs in the south of the mexico south of in the mexican border and all through the mediterranean you have a lot of people preying on some very weak people and i'd like to point out also that it's often forgotten the people that do want to immigrate to the united states and to europe they should stay in their own country and build their own country ok and set of having the west have to subsidize them in their own country where they left ok that's a lot said right there go ahead ralph. yes i do agree to a certain extent because i once raised a question movement a press conference with mrs merkel and she made the same mistake that many people

do it was also in our discussion here now that we mix migration issues that asylum you know to uphold the asylum the right of assad which is a human right and we have to upload to those who need it we cannot mix that issue with migration now what i do agree with is that what we see at the moment at the mexican border is probably a step up by deep state or by some people who want to make mr trump act and mr trump is not on your earth because he remembers what happened to do this is mark of an entry suddenly at the refugees coming in and that this was advertised as the bucket route by the media not to beginning up this year sometime in the spring i watched a program on c.n.n. there was a colleague on the report a colleague on the on a bus tour from central america to watch the. u.s. border and reporting from it and advertising it kind of saying out as a way to go to the united states of course you can instigate and obviously it's the

trump is facing those now and it's to see these crying children and parents being arrested of all that i don't think that he wants to see that it's now a fact that they want to carry him over red tape like did it with mrs merkel and ben that was the only two time state and the government in the last twelve years was one decision was less about a financial crisis and she pumped billions into banking banking system saving banking systems the second decisions he made during the twelve iran was in two thousand fifteen to say ok these people sleeping on train stations second column but after that she lost control and this is what people are voting for right wing parties and leftists do make the mistake especially in germany i see that they do not have an answer to the sentiments of people we are able to take many more refugees it's now. the problem because we are rich coming but we have to take care of people who are already in germany first and going we can say it. works but

asylum should be. because there's no limit to human wrote you know john a lot has been said since you last spoke there and i can read your mind this far away that more europe is not the solution juxtaposition what our friend roland had to say go ahead john. i wanted to come back to that point in response to the question you asked about the economic rationale you rightly put your finger on the paradox that immigration is justified economically because it keeps wages down and gives a supply of cheap labor and so on but that in reality of course many of the migrants end up being out of work and in any case there's a lot of youth unemployment in europe by asking that question peter you have highlighted the point i made in my first answer namely that the ideological reasons that i referred to which are european are not motivated by economic good sense we

can have a debate about whether or not you need cheap labor britain by the way is an economic model for that because britain has imported millions of low cost workers from poland and romania since two thousand and four and we've seen the effects of that on the economy an increase in g.d.p. and a collapse in productivity but that's not what's driving the immigration ideology it's it's precisely not economic rational it is instead ideology you know it's important to recall that one of the founding fathers of the european integration is movement richard from couldn't move in one nine hundred twenty five called for the races of europe to be mixed with other bloods for the european race to be mixed with other bloods in order to create a new european of the future he had just. of racialist if you accept the other way around from the nazis who wanted racial mix city racial diversity and this idea

which he first published in one thousand twenty five he's a big figure he was the first president of the of the council of europe for example this idea remains alive today in the minds of european leaders particularly incidently german ones. now president of the. for many years the german minister of finance said in an interview indeed site in two thousand and sixteen that if we didn't have migrants and we kept them out then europe would descend into incest he used the word incest and similarly the german president york in the dark said we needed migrants to get rid of the idea that me being german means being white and being christian so there is a very clear ideological drive here to inject new populations into europe in order to change the structure of those populations and that is part of the european dream it's part of the post national europe but goes very very john that's why our in

europe is not the other how would that make europe better i don't get it ok i travel to europe all the time i don't see it's improving i see it's declining rapidly go area bishop john peter peter the bolshevik revolution didn't make russia better but that didn't mean that people didn't believe in it they believed in it because it's an ideology it's a post national ideology which these people want to implement by replacing the population in their crazy minds that's what they're doing ok we're all in it you know italy has been here very hard by this immigration crisis we can use that word i mean shouldn't evil e on its own be able to decide what happens with inside its borders i mean why is it waiting for merkel ways and waiting for brussels why is it waiting for this summit that's going to happen in the weekend i mean italy's a sovereign country care it should take care of its people. first particularly if the unemployment benefits you think it's critical right now go ahead roland at

a tower you have to decide for themselves go ahead. and then that is exactly what is happening now after the last elections of march for we had the biggest shift to the right ever in. you know world war two history need to leave and in fact a new government is blocking ngo ship saying they're not democratically controlled the new government is seeking to put this impatient of slane and he's putting merkel especially in german chancellor under strong pressure to find a different solution only solution is needed in europe is to control the out the borders we have to retake control as being council president on the ball and stated already in two thousand and fourteen we have to regain control of four of the borders yellow what are the what about that i'm sorry roll what about italy's borders what about italy's borders isn't that the first thing you should be

thinking about first and italians or yeah the sad thing is that in this point you are absolutely right it really is forced to take control over its own borders many more or less alone why i give you an example from texas which is the official agency of border protection in europe is based in washoe and features four hundred four collaborators to protect the whole of. europe and has total budget of two hundred eighty one million which is one hundred ths of work germany alone spent a year for the refugees which is a disproportioned it cannot be upheld weir's known portion that yeah that's an understatement my friend is that's an understatement ok so at the amazing let me go to raul fear i mean ralph if we could put put aside all the ideology and all the. signaling what so what some concrete things to do in the united states i think there should be built

a wall then there won't be any children torn from their parents ok it won't happen what can your do as a first step in your mind a practical step. but i heard i'm from best for them and i know how it is to live on that island surrounded by a wall and we don't want to see was any more but i understand that in the united states it's a different started of course the wall that we had to keep people from stealing from dare come in to a country so it's a bit different of course to compare these two walls generally i think there has to be better ways now as europe. commonly discuss how we can bank live in countries where it might once have to leave the country because they feel not safe the second point is the kind of course groups things in those countries by negotiating to be added to your in partnership agreements of africa i've spent a lot of time now in africa at the moment and you know obviously you know. we're

almost out of time but one thing the west could do is stop bombing those countries so these people won't flee ok that would be a perfectly good practical step we've run out of time gentlemen many thanks to my guests and parents know and we've got to and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter to us is over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you long for the old for bridge eight weeks six percent mark. saw a thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building

a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember is one one does not show you can afford to miss the one and only. usually when we have brought about a situation within a conflict. the enemy or the three decides to go cia the first people to rush into the u.a.e. do their departure and as soon as we depart before suicide miniscule i doubt it until as to the budget. in the heart of the swiss alps this is a place probably more secretive than the pentagon more mysterious than the cia and better guarded than for knox swiss costumes are here permanently all the site is

controlled by them and they impose the opening time so it will come up with it it is from his office the procedures in place of the strictest in all europe must to pieces by artists like picasso and modigliani i can't boards and sold in the side this warehouse that's where the report comes in it covers a deal which are naturally discreet commercially discreet step but also discreet because they concern fraud. some of those paintings are linked to dark secrets nobody knows how many of these secrets a kept inside the geneva freeport system please understand that you will never obtain an inventory of all the works in the freeport who knows how many there are three hundred three thousand three hundred thousand is it a matter of confidentiality only is it the world's black box of the art business.