usually when we have brought about a situation within a conflict we the enemy or the three decides to go cia the first people to rush into the u.a.e. do their departure and as soon as we depart before says suddenly it's kool-aid so

as do their budgets. so what we've got to do is identify the threats that we have it's crazy confront a shooting let it be an arms race is on off and spearing dramatic developments only silly and dangerous resists i don't see how that strategy will be successful very critical time time to sit down and talk. there. are. plenty. welcome to worlds apart is often said that the united nations is only as

good as its member states allow it to be but what happens when those numbers state deliberately start to act obs institution itself its legacy the synergies that create pool for the whole is greater than the sum of its parts while to discuss that i'm now joined by the united nations secretary general until this secretary-general first of all let me welcome you here in moscow thank you very much for your time let me start with congratulating you on the portugal's victory over. the did you have a chance to watch the game yes i watched the game and let's be clear we won the game but we didn't play very well exactly and that's what is your living me to my next question because according to the game stats the markets were better across the board in terms of the possession of the ball in terms of the shots shots and targets etc but they still lost and i wonder if. you often see this kind of dynamic of the united nations when the country puts up a good game but the final score is still not in its favor. everywhere i mean i

remember in football in the past so we sometimes have very good teams on the rules lose the games and say we were morally i think yesterday we have lost morally but. no. in the context of international relations what is essential for countries to be able to come together and to face the global challenges we have today the challenges the understanding that we cannot do it alone one of multilateral organizations and we need multilateral governance and you need international picking of the biggest most influential player in the still the united states rich just recently it's true from the human rights council i understand that the optics of it i'm not very positive but in actual terms what kind of a fallout do you expect from that well of course i would strongly prefer. the first moment to. united states that would stay in the human rights council i believe

human rights a text is a very important element in the un human rights is one of the pillars of united nations and i hope that. so little later sooner rather than later the us will be able to come back but as i said i strongly believe that in today's world we need multilateral responses and the american side they have both criticism and bias as their reasons for their walkout and the united nations security council certainly is not the only body to criticize either israel or the united states for that matter i wonder if you have any concerns at all whether that kind of pass then could be repeated and if the united states can pull out from the united nations altogether accessible i mean let's let's be clear the united states plays a very important role in it when i say it is a founding member like the russian a glacial carillon once again what is so weird also and of course is to be out of one or two areas that are more i would say the other thing is to be of course

involved in the sensibility reaches of the when and i believe these will go on more true believer that when one looks at united states and the russian federation those two countries in many aspects common interests sometimes they are fighting but they have common interests and if we look at the middle east that is the area that we have been that was mentioned the about this decision the global middle east is there where i'm strongly believe that the geo strategic interests of the humanity the united states and the russian federation a lot and i want to on the contrary things that are similar and i strongly hope that the divisions that have existed of the countries will be overcome and that the two countries will be able to have very strong cooperation a lowing the international system to work there is no way in which an international system like ours can work without cooperation between the. most important super

bowl let me ask specifically about the reason cited for the american the walkout these allegations of bias are certainly not me i'm sure you have heard the russia china syria many other countries make fiddler claims after unfavorable votes but none of them ever walked out of the council simply because i think most of them realize that they are not limited to one single issue the value of the council is broader do you take this american of a troll to mean that the united states at this moment of time doesn't care about anything else about israel no look. the us position as a whole has been the same the us was all that it's can mean is going all to gain which means that there is a balance in the american public opinion and in the american institutions the going on the party that is the balance of the party that is in the shown different attitudes in addition to the human rights council so i don't think we should generalize these i think this is a very specific area where we have always seen the us with

a. position position position in so let's hope that in the future the us will come back now speaking about the nature of that criticism i know that the. cover to sell the alstom has just submitted airports very critical of trump's president tax overhaul claiming that it overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and worsened the inequality and i wonder if if that is perhaps a little bit too personal it's one thing to criticize any given country's track record and then another thing to. bash individual president's policies before it was actually fully implemented we have in the us several things you have the u.n. secretary that you have the different. namely the significance of the general assembly human rights council and then you have a special report that act independently and at present very ports criticizing country zealand there on the most difficult issues which of course do the.

necessarily present the position of the un and in its entirety my position on these as always been very clear i sink it is better to do it or was taking the country into account not personalizing seeings in the un with a very strong concern in the us we need to be impartial and we need not to politicize issues to treat them based on the truth and based on the charter of the united nations but i then suggesting that certain people of within the one thing against your direct advice because if i if you let me to quote that report it specifically pointed out that the policies pursued over the past year seem deliberately designed to remove basic protections for from the course it seems like a fairly targeted. shot especially set forth by special rapporteur that is independent it's it's an opinion that of course needs to be taken into account can see that but doesn't represent the position the formal position of the u.n. but. you know there's

a very delicate issues because i'm sure you would agree with me that the position of the american president of president trump at this point of time his actions are crucial for the future of the organization and he is known as somebody who is very sensitive and sometimes very reactive. to the crisis and. do you think that kind of statement wise in the current environment i don't think it will be. the reason for any crisis in my way of doing scenes different people dustings in different ways my way to do seems to do my job is not to personalize and to do seems based on impartiality and objective analysis of situations but of course people are different to that we have and i think it's important when you have independent reports on these kinds of issues to respect their independence that doesn't mean that we subscribe what we say but we respect the independence because if not everyone then will be manipulated and does of course was completely undermine the respectability of. those independence borders that are an important component of

the international community but of course as i say independents are seeing the u.n. secretary it is enough now let me ask you about one more issue that a lot in the news today that you are yourself weighed in and this is the trumpet ministrations that immigration policy particularly. the practice of separating children from their parents who crossed into the united states illegally mr trump has just sought to reverse that policy by his executive order and i wonder what the u.s. secretary general have really understood how this man functioned so what can possibly persuade him to change his mind as he just did on the immigration i don't think we should personalize things i think we need to look at policies as this policy is because it's. really good lots of impact on how you do and the policy was published was to say that in my opinion that is not a good thing and that my experience as i commission for refugees is always that's

two separate families is something that's going to have very negative consequences for the people and then of course for the society in general and i'm glad that the policy will be if you first see that many other actors in the international community in the in the u.s. politics including in the thirdly. express their opinion as i said let's the best way to be ective in my opinion is not to personalize is to look into sinks objectively and if you do it in a way that to use him passionately if you do is you know whether he's objective i think that's the best way to convince people to do the right thing well let's try to look at it impartially. policies are usually couched in moral terms but i think there is a very real legal dilemma there it is not good in any way to separate children from their parents but i think it would also agree that the united states is entitled and has the right to prosecute people who cross into its territory illegally so i wonder. whether the here and more humane way would be to

your those children in jail together with their parents or perhaps to brando's parents a waiver from prosecution simply because they happen to be parents well countries have the right to have their own migration policies but to make policy is need also to respect human rights migration policies in the management of borders and it's also to be protective sensitive namely the respect the international refugee law i myself am against the nation of someone just because someone entered not legally in the country you see refugees as no other chance to escape but to cross the border that that not in a legal way so i'm not in favor of a policy of our three minimization but as i said i recognize countries have the right to define their own migration policies what is important is that they do it in respect to human rights to human dignity because migrants and also human beings that need to be can see that and respect it absolutely and we would all do our best

for our children but i think i mean i don't represent fox news here but i think it is important to recognize that they are not talking about the you know serial mothers fleeing for their life we are talking about mexican mothers and fathers who try to find a better future for their kids for their living vibrant developing country so. i'm portuguese. in the sixty's. when million five hundred thousand portuguese left the country at the time walking into france. and they were basically moving because of poverty and basically because they wanted a better life no it doesn't mean. i think everybody should do it but i have a lot of respect for people that in the case of the me today me and put their lives at risk crossing the mediterranean with e.s.p. nation to provide for their children a better life than. when they could have so again. i am totally against smuggling

people but i have a deep respect for the people that try to do something to come out of. there is more people killed in these countries by the different gangs that will put it in the syrian war so we are in situations that are sometimes desperate which means that in these flows of people you have people that fleet only because of economic reasons but we have also people that have been victims of persecution so again. of the right to be found their policies countries have the right to send back migrants but all that needs to be that in respect for the basic human rights and for the dignity of people now migration is obviously a very contentious issue not only in the united states but also used to be as you just pointed out more welcoming towards migrants and let me tell you something

about my question my mother is ninety four years old it was not a very serious you know my mother is under forty years old i visit my mother when i go back to porch every month and she has always one person taking care of twenty four hours about twenty four hours independently of the family and i have never seen a portuguese taking care of my buddy. and in most of the countries you have the indexes of one point two one point three one point four make addition is also necessary what is this what is needed in my opinion is to recognize the need and up to organize it with interest to avoid these illegal migration to organize migration to create opportunities for illegal migration taking into account deaves of states and the answers of people we need to look at migration as a normal scene in which states need to have the responsibility toward denies them properly instead of leaving to these they're split into a shooting people flee because there is nothing that is not in place do a lot for normal flows that into account the needs of countries of origin and the

needs of countries of this emotion whatsoever there and i had a chance to interview i think it was four years ago when you were your high commissioner for refugees and you said pretty much the same thing that migration has to be managed and balanced in the four years that have done a thing that countries have learned how to do it in a balanced way that and that is that all of you have to tell you i think i was right four years ago and i'm still right and the fact that this is not being sincerely assumed is creating the chaotic situation that we see in many parts of the world in which by going asian became the issue the issue in many electoral campaigns and because of that you see populists country six and of populist part of these movements and others are gaining ground in many countries if regulation we manage properly in respect for the answer of the countries but also the interests of the people i see these would not be the issue that is driving the politics in so many countries now one of the reasons why are. increasing and we're now having

record numbers of more than sixty eight million people being displaced globally one reason those are displaced by conflict or by conflict and you said to recently that the number of those violent conflicts is now the highest in thirty areas the number of people killed in those conflicts has recent tenfold since two thousand and five . usat makes conflict prevention and mediation all the more important and i would think that the united nations is the most natural of ben your for that why is it not more successful in mediating all those channels you know normally when we are successful nobody notices but i'll just give you an exam they really mean that they are in jazzers give you an example there was an actual election in liberia and the election liberia was contested as you know when there was a problem where the results would be recognized or not i've sent to president bush one of our members of our level panel of mediation that's was there in the day talking to the two candidates to make sure that they would accept the results and that there would not be a disturbance as we have seen in many other parts of the if there was

a problem to go to the courts and whatever we are now doing the same in mediation to go to the african union and. we have done the same in. this critically in sierra leone and which means there are lots of it if we i mean the a to get the present moment doing our best to avoid a dramatic battle for the city of a day to recognize that the family layering know what is difficult and the reason is very simple polish and as the world became less clear i remember the cold war i remember a uni polar world now the world is kind of chaotic it's moving hopefully into a multi-polar world and i'm a strong defender of the idea that the world should be organized in a multi-polar way but today we have a chaotic world in predictability impunity is the name of the game you see lots of vectors i mean how many armies are there now fighting inside syria for example it's very difficult to mediate in these circumstances but every. wonder is and more to

make prevention. but i already have priorities to evidencing to the rest of the cause of conflict to create the conditions for communities not to create the level of tension that leads them to conflict but you are absolutely right we are far from being a success. because this world no use of the sequel to all the complex worlds where we have a multiplicity of vectors in the multiplicity of spoilers creating pays all kinds so many ideas with the enormous suffering of the people well secretary general let us take a very short break now we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. that's geysers financially but they seem a little girl and. closer to the music this is

a central perk support on the film is a good problem right now so you stop to. welcome back to worlds apart with the secretary general antonio. secretary general it's been about the year and a half since you took this position from the very beginning you were faced with this challenge of diminishing american presence both in financial terms and some would say moral terms and i assume that led you to rely more on other actors on other players hasn't worked out did other have other players that the bag game in

in the light of american. diminishing. strong support of the sort of the multiple that will so i think independently of what to do next it states a seek we need to be able to promote circumstances in which a multiplicity of victims as more and more relevant here. these areas they don't need to see is that you see more and more countries being active in the context of united nations and that is very much welcome from me independently of the position of united nations the united states i mean fortunately into a large united states of english and to the financial commitments of the un maintain their position there are as i said as you said some pretty full areas where the u.s. has left but in addition to the central aspects the u.s. has maintained its independently of that it's important to have a multi please city of access and it is there. that allows for us to be more impartial and body factis given how important the united states still is both to

their funding and their running off and i'm sure as secretary general your had to run through several contingency plans i wonder in your planning where do you see this change posture are of the united states as something temporary that may change too or at let's say six years down the line or is that a permanent change i think it's important to recognize first of all that we have been able to maintain with the u.s. a working relationship the best of that nikki haley has been extremely constructive in addressing the difficulties that we face are real and if the latest statement on . how to talk about so you know she has made that talking about solutions with the secretariat and the solution of the problems of the might of course you're right there's of their own political positions on many issues i'm not talking about that talk about the constructive relationship with the secretary it i think we have managed to have a constructive relationship and we want to keep it but as i said we we need to have a wolves and the united nations in which many actors the ect together creating an

environment of impartiality and equilibrium where the world or the united nations or whatever only dependent on one or two countries is not a good saying well i know you have long argued that the u.s. has disengagement from global affairs and i wonder if disengagement is the right word because from my point. it's not that the trumpet ministration is not engaging i think it is engaging in very unorthodox ways for example take north korea we've just witnessed the first ever historic meeting between the two halves of state but it came after him essentially tittering on the brink of war if you are very seasoned diplomat what do you think about this kind of approach to diplomacy well let's be honest. what can be one of the most important success stories. come. conflict situation so we can criticize the when we can criticize but i must say that the recent summit that took place in singapore is

a remarkable achievement and i congratulate to tell me that's that had the courage to do it in circumstances that were complex of course there were lots of. episodes before but even during these episodes i remember very well the eye view of the six countries i thought all of us you know that is the six party talks with the aim of the six i've sent my and the secretary general on political affairs of the time jeffrey feltman to pyongyang exactly with you object is to try to prepare the conditions for these kind of the a lot to be possible which means that if given at the heat of the conflict it was possible with the agreement of all for the wind to play a role trying to create the conditions to bring people together that's all i don't know if hear of heard that but mr trump also suggested that if you can apply this kind of personal diplomacy to russia for example ask president putin to get out of syria or ukraine and i don't know about here i would be a little bit nervous about where that conversation can leave and i want to ask you

what do you actually think about the current state of the u.s. russian relations given their presence very massive presence have made. their own threat is the president putin recently and i said to both the same namely in relation to the situation with all the middle east in the in syria my belief that i have said it's already dead to the geostrategic interests of the. in the middle east. and in my opinion it's extremely important for the future of the middle east that the two countries come together and have a common strategy and those. i mean it is always easy and i understand that from the point of view of the me that it's much better if you have big fights but from the point of view of the world it's very important that countries are able to come together to overcome their divisions and to understand that their common interests especially in these world where terrorism became so dangerous their common interests are more important than the difference is that he said that russian and american common interest in syria overlap somehow and there are grave doubts and

grave concerns in this city of that the united states may be moving towards creating some sort of partition in syria. i'm sure you heard john bolton the and national security advisor to mr advocating the creation of the so-called sunni stand which with comprise certain parts of syria and iraq what do you think about this idea even if it has a chance to bring ideas that have you had the opportunity to talk with americans and russians on this issue and one saying that i believe the central used to preserve the territorial integrity of syria and other countries in the region to to try and nod to do some kind of new psych speak will in my opinion will be as we say move now there are certain issues that are absolutely central to the legacy one of them is the palestinian territories it was the united nations after all which ratified the partition of the palestine which allowed for the creation of israel alongside an arab state the promise that was never granted and i think that is now

actively sabotage do you think the palestinians still have a reasonable hope of seeing their own state and when it be more moral more honest to tell them you guys go and build a life somewhere else no i don't think it does if that is acceptable i am a strong supporter of the two state solution i don't see the. i don't seem there is a plan b. i think steps to abandon it is not realistic because to abandon it was to condemn death territory to a kind of confrontation in which the consequences would be absolutely devastating and look at what happened recently in gaza let's not make sure that's make sure that these doesn't this does this become the situation in the whole area the two state solution might still be possible if we overcome the present divisions to abandon that idea in my opinion is a huge risk and i don't seeing that i. can see that that

the two state solution should be abandoned. they aren't american history is serious about the to state solution i am not sure about anybody i'm sure about what i believe i am a strong believer that the two state solution is essential because a one state solution would mean what would mean that everybody would have. been in existence. for i don't think it's possible to be maintained never easy to know nothing is eternal in the world and i believe our all is not to maintain status war in which people suffer and in which the risks for peace and security are there at any every moment i think our role is to overcome these states of squaw and to create a stable peaceful solution where two peoples are able to live together in respect for their homes to go to the secretary general and we have to leave india i really appreciate your time today and i'm curious to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and talk to syria the same place same time here on the walls

apart. argentina venezuela they are mad about it because their countries are in freefall those are peripheral currencies when we had a major currency like the dollar the yen the euro the panel and enter a similar crisis which i believe will happen will have then adoption rate in those countries wall spike as well as a way to store a value as a way to preserve wealth because the banking system is completely unsustainable they will not exist as we understand it in ten years time it will not exist central

banks are an endangered species. berry ten of the two thousand eight hundred people world cup has been action packed with goals go laura and a late twisted during saturday evenings final game in sochi. another news the second anniversary of the u.k.'s present referendum sees tens of thousands march on parliament demanding a vote on any exit deal with the e.u. . and emotionally charged image on the latest time magazine cover seen as a damning indictment of trump's immigration policy is discovered to be misleading. and more world cup action for you plus news from around the globe at r.t. dot com next go on our team for national going underground talks immigration and drugs and while in the u.k. and ireland get ready for sputnik with george galloway.