they put themselves on the on the big get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president or injury. or somehow want to be brits. what's it like to be for us this is what before us three in the morning can't be good that i'm interested always in the waters of my. question. welcome to worlds apart is often said that the united nations is only as good as its member states allow it to be but what happens when those numbers state

deliberately start to act institution itself its legacy the synergies it create cool for that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts while to discuss that i'm now joined by the united nations secretary general until any of this secretary-general first of all let me welcome you here in moscow it's great to see you thank you very much for your time let me start with congratulating you on the portugal victory over iraq on wednesday did you have a chance to watch the game yes i watched the game and let's be clear we won the game but we didn't play very well exactly in that way your letting me into my next question because according to that game starts tomorrow for a better across the board in terms of the possession of the ball in terms of the shots shots and targets etc but they still lost and i wonder if. you often see this kind of dynamic of the united nations when that country puts up a good game but the final score is still northern its favor happens all the time not only that everywhere i mean i remember in football in the past so we sometimes

have very good teams and we would lose the games and say we won morally i think yesterday we have lost morally but at what's been. in the context of international relations what is essential for countries to be able to come together and to face the global challenges we have today that of the domestic challenges the understanding that we cannot do it alone one of them. organizations and we need multilateral governance and you need international british picking up the biggest most influential player and they are they still the united states french just recently of its chair from the human rights council i understand that the optics of it i'm not very positive but in actual terms what kind of a fallout do you expect from that well of course i would strongly prefer they said since it is the first moment that united states would say in the human rights council i believe human rights a text is a very important element in the u.n.

human rights is one of the pillars of united nations and i hope that. so little later sooner rather than later the u.s. will be able to come back but as i said i strongly believe that in today's world we need multilateral responses they're american side they're both criticism and bias as their reasons for their walk out and the united nations security council certainly is not the only body to criticize either israel or the united states for that matter i wonder if you have any concerns at all whether that kind of pass then could be repeated and if the united states can pull out from the united nations altogether accessible i mean let's let's be clear the united states plays a very important role in the where i sit is a founding member like the russians a place you care a lot i once again what is going to go also and of course used to be out of one or two areas that are more i would say the other thing is to be of course involved in the center of the d.v.d.'s of the when and i believe these will go on more true

believer that when one looks at united states and the russian federation those two countries have in many aspects common interests sometimes they are fighting but they have common interests and they for a look at the middle east that area that we have been that was mentioned the about this decision the global middle east is there where i'm strongly believe that the jews that if you can't. of the united states and the russian federation a lot and so on and on the contrary seems the jews are similar and i strongly hope the divisions that have existed there will be overcome and that the two countries will be able to have their strong cooperation a lowing the international system to work there is no way in which an international system like our words can work without its corporation between the two most important super bowl let me ask specifically about the reason cited for the american the walkout these allegations of bias are certainly not the russia china

syria many other countries makes the miller claims after unfavorable both but none of them ever walked out of the council simply because i think most of them realize that they're not limited to one single issue they devalue the council is broader do you take this american of a troll to mean that the united states at this moment of time doesn't care about anything else about israel no look. position as a whole has been the same the us was all it's done it's can mean no it's going all to game which means that there is a balance in the american public opinion and in the american institutions the going on the party that the balance of the party that is in the shown different attitudes in addition to the human rights council so i don't think we should generalize these i think this is a very specific area where we have always seen the u.s. . position in position to position in so let's hope that

in the future the u.s. will come back now speaking about the nature of that criticism i know that the. cover to sell the alstom has just submitted every quarter very critical of trump's president tax overhaul claiming that it overwhelmingly benefited the wealthy and of course and inequality and i wonder if if that is perhaps a little bit too personal it's one thing to criticize any given country's track record and then other things. bash individual president's policies before it was actually fully implemented we have here in the us several things you have the u.n. secretary that you have the front. namely the security council the general assembly human rights council and then you have special reporters that act independently and at present very ports criticizing country zealand there on the most difficult issues which of course do not necessarily present the position of the un and in its entirety my position on these as always been very clear i sink it is better to do

it or was taking the country into account not personalizing seeings in the un with a very strong concern. we need to be impartial and we need not to politicize issues to treat them based on the truth and based on the charter of the united nations that i then suggesting that certain people of within the u.n. all went against your direct advice because if i if you let me to quote that report it specifically pointed out that the policies pursued over the past year seemed deliberately designed to remove basic protections for from the course it seems like a fairly targeted. shot especially set forth by special rapporteur that is independent it's it's an opinion that of course needs to be taken into account can see that but doesn't really present the position the formal position of the u.n. but. you know there's a very delicate issues because i'm sure you would agree with me that the position of the american president of president trump at this point of time his actions are

crucial for the future of the organization and he is known as somebody who is very sensitive and sometimes very reactive. to the crisis and. do you think that kind of statements are wise in the current environment i don't think it will be. the reason for any crisis in my way of doing scenes different people that sings in different ways my way to those. seems and to do my job is not to personalize and to do seems based on an active and always of situations but of course people are different to that we have and i think it's important when you have independent reports on these kind of issues to respect their independence that doesn't mean that we subscribe what we say but we respect the independence because if not everyone then will be manipulated and does of course was completely undermine the respectability of those independents bodies that are an important component of the international community but of course as i said independents are seeing the u.n.

secretary it is enough now let me ask you about one more issue that's a lot in the news today that you are yourself weighed in and this is the trumpet ministrations that immigration policy particularly. the practice of separating children from their parents who cross into the united states illegally mr trump has just thought to reverse that policy by his executive order and i wonder what the u.s. secretary general have really understood how this man functioned so what can possibly persuade him to change his mind asking just dead on the immigration i don't think we should personalize things i think we need to look at the policies that this policy is because it's. the big labor is a relative luxury in fact that idea and a policy was published was to say that in my opinion debt is not a good thing and that my experience as i commission for refugees is always that separates families is something that's going to have very negative consequences for the people and then of course for the society in general and i'm glad that the

policy would be if you first and i've seen that many other actors in the international community in the in the u.s. politics including in the third minute. express their opinion as i said let's the best way to be active in my opinion is not to personalize is to look into sinks objectively and if you do it in a way that is impartial if you do it you know where that is objective i think that's the best way to convince people. right singh well let's try to look at it impartially. policies are usually couched in moral terms but i think there is a very real legal dilemma there. is not good in any way to separate children from their parents but i think it would also agree that the united states is entitled and has the right to prosecute people who cross into its territory illegally so i wonder whether the more humane way with me to put those children in jail together with their parents or perhaps to brando's parents waver

from prosecution simply because they happen to be parents the countries of the rights to have their own migration policies but migration policy is need also to respect human rights migration policies in the management of borders and it's also to be protective sensitive namely the respect the international refugee law i myself am against the nation of someone just because someone entered. illegally in the country you see refugees there's no other chance to escape but to cross the border that that not in a legal way so i'm not in favor of the policy of the minimization but as i said i recognize countries have the right to define their own migration policies what is important is that they do it in respect to human rights to human dignity because migrants are also human beings that need to be can see that and respect it's absolutely and we would all do our best for our children but i think it i mean i don't represent fox news here but i think it is important to recognize that they

are not talking about the syrian mothers fleeing for their lives we are talking about mexican mothers and fathers who try to find a better future for their kids for their living vibrant developing country so. i'm portuguese. in the sixty's. when million five hundred thousand portuguese. left the country at a time walking into for us. and they were basically moving because of poverty and basically because they wanted a better life now it doesn't mean. i think everybody should do it but i have a lot of respect for people that in the case of them it's rainy and put their lives at risk crossing the mediterranean with the escalation to provide for their children a better life than the one they could have so again i am totally against smuggling people but i have

a deep respect for the people that try to do something to come out of the. laws. and. there is more people killed in these countries by the different gangs that operates in the syrian war so we are in situations that are sometimes desperate which means that in these flows of people you have people that fleet only because of economic reasons but we have also people that have been victims of persecution so again. of the right to be found their policies countries have the right to send back migrants but all that needs to be that in respect for the basic human rights and for the dignity of people now migration is obviously a very contentious issue not only in the united states but also in europe which used to be as you just pointed out more welcoming towards migrants and let me tell you something about my question my mother is ninety four years old is not

a very serious you know my mother is ninety four years old i visit my mother when i go back to portugal every month and she has always one person taking care of twenty four hours by twenty four hours independently of the family i've never seen a portuguese taking care of my buddy. and in most of the countries you have fifty three indexes of one point two one point three one point four make addition is also necessary what is this what is needed in my opinion is to recognize the need to organize it with interest to avoid these illegal migration to organize migration to create opportunities for illegal migration taking into account the interests of states and the answers of people we need to look at migration as a normal scene in which states need to have the responsibility toward denies them properly instead of leaving to these desperate to people flee because there is nothing that is not in place do a lot for normal flows that take into account the needs of countries of origin and the needs of countries of the secretary general i had

a chance to interview i think it was four years ago when you were your high commissioner for refugees and you said pretty much the same thing that migration has to be managed and balanced in the four years that have done anything the countries have learned how to do it in a balanced way there and that is the problem you have today i think i was right four years ago and i'm still right and the fact that this is not being sincerely assumed is creating the chaotic situation that we see in many parts of the world which by gratian became the issue the issue in many electoral campaigns and because of that you see populists country skin of populist part of these movements and others are gaining ground in many countries if regulation we manage properly in respect for the answer of the countries but also the interests of the people i see these would not be the issue that is driving the politics in so many countries now one of the reasons why a migration increasing and we're now having record numbers of more than sixty eight million people being displaced globally one reason those are displaced by conflict

or by conflict and ceteris and play dead number of those violent conflicts is now the highest in thirty areas the number of people killed in those conflicts has risen ten fold since two thousand and five. we use that makes conflict prevention and mediation all the more important and i would think that the united nations is there the most natural of ben your for that why is it not more successful in mediating all this trying to live normally when we are successful nobody notices but i'll just give you an exam they really mean that they are huge as just give you an example there was an actual election in liberia and the election liberia was contested as you know when there was a problem where the results would be recognized or not i've sent one of our members of our level panel of mediation that's was there in the day talking to the two candidates to make sure that they would accept the results and that there would not be a disturbance as we have seen in many other parts of the if there was a problem to go to the courts and whatever we are now doing the same in a mediation to go the african union and. we have done the same

in. this critically in sierra leone in which means there are lots of the t.v. we are me the a to get the present moment doing our best to avoid a dramatic battle for the city of all data recognize that the family layering know what difficult and the reason is very simple as is the world became less clear i remember the cold war i remember a uni polar world now the world is kind of chaotic it's moving hopefully into a multi-polar world and i'm a strong defender of the idea that the world should be organized in a multi-polar way but today we have a chaotic world in predictability impunity is the name of the game you see lots of vectors i mean how many armies are there now fighting inside syria for example it's very difficult to mediate in these circumstances but every. wonder is and more to make prevention. but i already see of priorities to evidencing to the rest of the

cause of conflict where you seem to create the conditions for communities not to create the level of tension that leads them to conflict but you are absolutely right we are far from being set. because this world no use of the sequel to all the complex world where we have a multiplicity effect in the multiplicity of spoilers creating a vulcan so many ideas with the enormous suffering of the people well secretary general let us take a very short break now we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. for our. best writers survival guide ecstacy good morning to start simply. going to. come back to. oh. good this is

a repatriation scheme where we get the rest to seven years. ago of the separate skies report. usually when we have brought about a situation with either conflict we the enemy or the great decides to go see first people to rush into the u.a.e. do their departure and as soon as we depart before me it is to late the controllers to the budget.

welcome back to worlds apart with the secretary general antonio t.r.s. secretary general it's been about the year and a half since you took this position from the very beginning you were faced with this challenge of diminishing american presence both in financial terms and some would say moral terms and i assume that led you to rely more on other actors on other players hasn't worked out did other have other players that bag game. in the light of american. diminishing. strong support of the sort of the multiple that world so i think independently of what to do united states osieck we need to be able to promote circumstances in which a multiplicity of victims are more and more relevant means hermione stay here to see is that you see more and more countries being active in the context of united nations and that is very much welcome from easy pendency of the position of united nations the united states i mean fortunately into

a lot of united states of english and to the key financial commitments of the un maintain their position that as i said as you said some areas that have been put in all areas where the u.s. has left. but in addition to the central aspect the u.s. has maintained independently of that it's important to have a multi please city of excess and it is that equilibrium that's a loss for us to be more impartial and body selective given how important the united states still is both today and funding in the running of africa are going to and i'm sure as secretary general your had to run through several contingency plans i wonder in your planning whether you see this change posture of the united states as something temporary that may change too or at let's say six years down the line or is it a permanent change i think it's important to recognize first of all that we have been able to maintain with the us a working relationship the best of the nikki haley has been extremely constructive in addressing the difficulties that we face are real and if the latest statement on

. how to talk about solutions michel are talking about solutions with the secretary and the solution of the problems of the of course you're right there's of their own political positions on many issues i'm not talking about that talk about the constructive relationship with the secretary it's i think we have managed to have a constructive relationship and we want to keep it but as i said we we need to have the wolves and the united nations in which many actors the act together creating an environment of impartiality and equilibrium where the world or the united nations sort of only dependent on one or two countries is not a good saying well i know you have long argued that the u.s. has disengagement from global affairs and i wonder if disengagement is the right word because from my point of view it's not that the trumpet ministration is not engaging i think it is engaging in a very unorthodox ways for example take north korea we've just witnessed the first ever historic meeting between the two halves of state but it came after essentially

teetering on the brink of a war if you are very seasoned diplomat what do you think about this kind of approach to diplomacy well let's be honest. what can be one of the most important success stories in addressing a complex. conflict situation soul we can criticize the when we can criticize but i must say that the recent summit that took place in singapore is a remarkable achievement and i congratulate to tell me those that had the courage to do it in circumstances that were complex of course there were lots of. episodes before but even during these episodes i remember very well the eye. of the six countries i thought elegant you know that is the six party talks with the aim of the six i've sent my and the secretary general on political affairs to time jeffrey feltman to pyongyang exactly with you object to try to prepare the conditions for

this kind of the a law to be possible which means that if given at the heat of the conflict it was possible with the agreement of all for the wind to play a role trying to create the conditions to bring people together that's all i know is here of heard that mr trump also suggested that if you can apply this kind of personal diplomacy to russia for example ask president putin to get out of syria or ukraine and i don't know about here i would be a little bit nervous about where that conversation can leave and i want to ask you what do you actually think about the current state of the u.s. rationalisations given their presence there very massive presence have made. their own treasury and the president put in recently and i said to both the same namely in relation to the situation in the global middle east in the in syria my belief that i have said it's already dead to the geo strategic interests of russia and united states in the middle east site and that's in my opinion it's extremely important for the future of the middle east that the two countries come together and have a common strategy and they seemed at i mean it is always easy and i understand that

from the point of view of the me that it's much better if you have big fights but from the point of view of the world it's very important that countries are able to come together to overcome that these. and to understand that there are common interests especially in these world where terrorism became so dangerous that common interests are more important than the differences that he said that russian and american common interest in syria overlap somehow and there are grave doubts and grave concerns in this city of that the united states may be moving towards creating some sort of partition in syria. i'm sure you heard john bolton the and national security advisor to. advocating the creation of this so-called sunni stand which with comprise certain parts of syria and iraq what do you think about this idea even if it has a chance to bring ideas that have you had the opportunity to talk with americans and russians on this issue and one scene that i believe you will use to preserve the territorial integrity of syria and other countries in the region to to try not

to do some kind of new psych speak will in my opinion be a suicide move now there are certain issues that are absolutely central to the un a legacy one of them is the palestinian territories it was the united nations after all which ratified the partition of the palestine which allowed for the creation of israel alongside an arab state the promise that was never granted and i think that is now actively sabotage do you think the palestinians still have a reasonable hope of seeing their own state and when it be more moral more honest to tell them you guys go and build your life somewhere else no i don't think it does if that is acceptable i am a strong supporter of the two state solution i don't think that is the thing it's railways i don't see that there is a plan b. i think to abandon it is not realistic because to abandon it was to condemn territory to a kind of confrontation in which the consequences would be sensitive devastating

happened look at what happened recently in gaza let's not make sure let's make sure that this doesn't this does this become the situation in the whole. yes a two state solution might still be possible if we overcome the present visions to abandon that idea in my opinion is a huge risk and i don't seeing that. we can can see that that the two state solution should be about the. american serious about the solution i am not sure about anybody i'm sure about what i believe i am a strong believer that the two state solution is essential because a one state solution would mean what would mean that everybody would have. been in existence. for i don't think it's possible to be maintained never an easy time no nothing is eternal in the world and i believe our role is not to maintain states of

small in which people suffer and in which the risks for peace and security are there at any moment i think our role is to overcome these states of sprawl and to create a stable peaceful solution where two peoples are able to live together in respect for their own security. secretary general and we have to leave india i really appreciate your time today and. to keep this conversation going in our social media pages. same place same time here and also part of. the. kentucky.

a coma and he said she was going to miss no coal mines left. the jobs are gone all the coal mines just said i'd. love to see these people the survivors of disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that if anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in a million years i would see that and it's how it's happened. with the world and martian manhunter so architects visionary stuff the largest international congress on the development of mega city july seventeenth twenty

second so write your part business program interactive exhibition urban festival details on possible forum dot com. day eleven of the world cup but any second now senegal in japan will kick off we've already seen seven goals in the early game and they should be no good all between england and panama. i. less than a minute away from the live update now the tournament seeing some two million fans come to celebrate football but one brazil fan goes viral over his new found passion for russia. to young the blues. and among this week's other stories the united states pulls out of the u.n. human rights council accusing it of extreme anti israel bias and being assessed political crissy for the move strong language from global leaders and rights groups .