and countries won't spike as well as a store of value as a way to preserve wealth because the banking system is completely unsustainable. as we understand it. it will not exist central banks are an endangered species. water wars are increasingly fought not by forces of governments but by private hired soldiers present day mercenaries is that something to fear well to talk about that i'm joined by even barlow the founder of executive outcomes the firm that started this private soldier but.

will. it mean barlow founder of executive outcomes private military company welcome to the show it's really great to have you with us now as a pro executive outcomes and other firms you were involved in have conducted a lot of have a successful operations getting more than one government out of a scrap why is it that your pm ses came under political and media pressure every time they achieve progress somewhere i mean what is wrong with the more the revolutionary united front or lord's resistance army being defeat it. i think it's very hard for me to sometimes comment on that i think you have to bear in mind that

it's mainly now the africans that come under pressure internationally when we get involved to resolve problems because if p. is the mantra that africans solutions for african problems is a very good sound bite but instead every but in practice we not allowed to practice it. so as you have put it when your military kompany executive outcomes was operating the media was highly critical often calling it illegal or claiming it soldiers people you said that lost the media war but most of your operations were conducted in secret why was the media war so damaging for you first of all the media at that time in particular was used by the south african government and the south african intelligence services to create certain perceptions specific sions were very necessary in order to hide what they were actually doing and that was

supporting so-called rebel forces in various places in africa and of course entry into those conflict zones i do huge impact on not only economic interest but also a very personal interest and the media really just became a useful idiot as far as they were concerned if it did create major problems for us yes we would can see crissy but invariably any type of operation that anyone gets involved in eventually does end up with the media and the media with a for used as a two in order to counter us and to. try and create a certain impression about us which was entirely false. in some cases he said that the pressure on your clients to governments to do it sure services would come from places like the pentagon or the united nations for instance why didn't those are going to say shows appreciate you solving their problems for them i've always been

of the opinion that the soonest conflicts and organize ation such as united nations and numerous n.g.o.s or non-government organizations no longer have active role to play. i say ending conflicts but they phoned a guy throws they play in africa plus what we were doing was obviously impacting on certain very deceptive foreign interests that we have being practiced on this continent like what will it take to do it the mining of diamonds to take to do with go to ted to do with oil. and all those natural resources of this city high value commodities. it will currently needs commodities and africa's a great place to find it as long as there are conflicts on the go to deals can be struck with governments in order to get hold of these resources in use so

why would the forces prefer to conduct business with rebels rather than rigid legitimate governments well obviously rebels don't test to provide any taxation to the mines resources within the areas and often the rebels are really just used as a proxy for us in order to destabilize a country and replace a certain government that's not compliant enough with the wishes of those that are outside driving these actions so you work mostly under the radar or can you imagine a situation in which governments will hire pam says openly without the fear of being compromised or well has always be an undercover type of trait. no. it's ironic that waste in pm sees and lately i've noticed russian pm caesar uprighting with the blessing of the governments in africa many of them are being funded by their own governments. it is

a problem as soon as we get involved in trying to resolve a conflict and we find that draw the hypocritical. at the end of the day if a government chooses to make use of us that is the prerogative of the government. problem how it is that we have to beg for a contract and have a state funded us with private military companies up writing on the stone and are sponsored by the un governments the governments really have a choice either by money to contract us well get a psych or distance and support they've almost zero free they usually go the free boot and often they live to regret that. after some mercenary leaders strike their hand at military coups like the case of some calmer austin seychelles equatorial guinea yeah can you blame governments for being an easy about working with pay and cease. i think you for government to scrunch

active p.m.c. directly and the p.m.c. follows the laws of that country and that it puts itself under the jurisdiction of those on forces governments have no reason to fifty m. c. in fact if you time we have we integrated with the forces where we are training we live with him we share the same food as they do we live in the same type of environment they live in and we meant to them in the field. in those instances we are directly responsible for the men that the government to buy stendra a month if the p.m.c. comes in and isolates themself and one side of a military complex refuses to integrate with the troops or comes in and is obvious that what they are training is totally irrelevant i think that governments do have a need to be concerned as to what's going on but we believe if the government pays

us for a service that's the safest way to live it we don't take short cuts and i'm mission is usually to end a conflict just because this post not to prolong it there's a whole heap of private military contractors working and he was wars across the middle east and apart from blackwater which rebranded its way out of scandals their work goes i know it just why does it have a different experience what is it that sets you are paying say apart from those who are working for instance in afghanistan. well first of all we are an african company we are stuffed by africans we are based in africa and therefore we are not necessarily viewed as an ideal choice both foreign governments to use we've never worked in the middle east so we cannot really comment on the fissions the or lack there of that pm seeds but those pm sees operating in the middle east are funded by the host governments and not by the country where they're working and it creates

a bit of a di lemma in the same state they are regarded as people that are doing their jobs and where is we are regarded as the bad guys in the story. i have to mention that we have yet to come across an african army try and buy foreign p.m.c. or indeed foreign forces that have been well trained and prepared for their mission opinion is that most african on these are being set up to fail by the foreign the emcees foreign on forces of foreign advises that they make use of why is there a certain private military companies now i mean is it cheaper for a government to just let chris more people into the regular army than paid mercenaries double or triple of what a soldier makes. well i i think this being. in quiet meant for private military companies given the unstable. international arena that to be on live in i

think and as instability grows it's become much easier to outsource certain services to private entities and also look at the cost of maintaining a large standing army and then i look at africa in particular where is the doctrines that are used by many african on these in the troops are trained in those doctrines are really doctrines that are totally relevant to africa and they would doctrines that were designed to by the germans joining world war two when it comes to waste and time doctrines to fight the old soviets in europe and those types of things are totally. irrelevant as far as africa is fronts and and then of course there is the ability of many african governments to buy their own equipment because that buys to do that their own of these things become money wasted and they have a lot of equipment and manpower that actually i bow to function coherent and to

defeat an on threat against that government so do you see this trend of hiring private military companies. continuing more fair be eventually privatized and outsourced p.m.c. . i don't think it will eventually be outsourced in total i think national ami's are still there to protect the integrity of the state and the territorial integrity of the countries. given the. the road that many proxy forces are currently playing in africa and the size of these proxy forces and the way in which they're equipped i think it's a government's prerogative to be called on any hope they can if they feel they need that help to defeat these on states they're facing but that said i don't think that national army as well if it ceased to exist and i think that's a correct type of p.m.c.

stuff by the creative people who understand the culture with operating in and the type of environment and certainly add value to the oppression efficiency of any african on me but if that can happen in theory for instance imagine what would be the dangers i mean when medieval mercenaries fought wars for italian cities they'd stop the fighting deliberately to make more money so if this goes on whatever is going on today we'll have an industry with a vested interest in war does that mean that the use of p.m.c. is will cause more wars in the future. well i think all wars are really based on mostly economic interests and secondly i don't think that. p.m.c. that france it itself to be profession is going to hire itself out and play to the highest bidder but of course that danger does exist and that's why we have always

been if the opinion that private military companies should be regulated and that they should act in accordance of the laws of those countries where they're operating and. i cannot see private military companies taking over the defense industry in total it's saying but i do foresee a time when privately companies are simply going to go for the biggest budget and that's because many of them unprofessional. to see how long they can actually produce a conflict or a war because the longer that goes on the more money they make for themselves i don't think however that within the type of environment that we operate governments are concerned. because they understand what we do and we understand where they need to be going sadly that seems to not be the case in many countries. mr barlow we're going to take a short break right now when we're in battle continue talking with a been marlo the founder of executive outcomes talking about private armies and of

wars they fight to stay with us. when lawmakers manufacture consensus uncertainty of public wealth. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the famous merry go round lifts only the one percent. to ignore middle of the room sick. i mean real news real world. you know

world of big partisan movie lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the bats and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks.

they were bad weather even barlow the founder of executive outcomes a private military company discussing what this war business is like so eight from the united nations or powerful government speight in the form of special forces training or direct military involvement always comes with conditions your work was offered strictly for money nothing else why aren't the governments around africa excited about that well first of all of course we with money we have study released by the same lease defeat and we have travel expenses we have insurance with medical except that we cannot do what we do for free. governments in africa often do speak to us and in fact we end regular contact with several of. the irony about all of that is although they wish for our services they continually threatened that if

they make use of us it will be true they just a bone to each and these are threats that it midnight from beyond africa and it really just is proof to us that a stable and secure africa is to be in very few people's interest. i heard you say that some powerful countries like the united states dislike your successes where their own special forces had failed why do you think you know was better aren't they government trained special forces day ultimate weapon i mean all your men are also a career government trained soldiers. well. i cannot speak on behalf of the u.s. but we do know that the u.s. does not like it when we operate in africa and they have their own reasons for that they can do you need to look at a special forces soldier is not a soldier that can be used in any environment within any sort of military context

there's a very particular row. view is always being to train soldiers to identify the enemy to be able to think the enemy make use of the terrain that and this is very very terrain that it cannot be a single approach to ending a conflict or a war that week i threw a huge process of analyzing the type of environment we working in because our mission is always very clear from the government in the conflict this quickly as possible. and that is exactly what we set out to do so we have depth things we change things. i like to think very mentally fixable and joe in order to read situations and predict and preempt what he's going to be happening male alys who flew missions under your command he once said that the and i mean places like sierra leonean for instance was rubbish can the success of pm ses like your speech a bit to the fact that the enemy is usually just very weak. i think when he needs

to understand the mindset of these enemies there are different types of enemies there are sometimes just bags that have got weight buttons and because of that they perceive themselves to be in positions of power and usually they are but i think when we come to countries like syria leon and i this. is armed forces have had several years of training from waste and on these in particular and their training is incredibly poor when you put up a poorly trained on me against a bunch of on thugs who have over time generated confidence and belief in themselves. the military usually performed dismally. in in sierra leone what the government was told by a foreign advise it would take six weeks to do come to in two days. and it's not necessarily always the enemy with the threat that struck me it's just being able to

think it out maneuver him and then to destroy him on the battlefield. now you said that you were often given minimal reins to accomplish your mission what is minimal means a couple of guns and mortars how is it possible to get that results in a short time with minimal minimal minutes it sounds like a recipe for disaster to me actually well it's very difficult to work with the men even means. if i can just take you back in a more recent situation we were in nigeria we had two gunship helicopters that were modified they were really second and helicopters and we had one dedicated gunship red very few states we didn't have enough vehicles we didn't have enough in direct fire support such as mortars although everyone at small arms and there

were some machine guns throughout it then becomes a matter of being able to utilize a unique doctrine and to rely on speed i think the enemy and to preempt what he's going to do but in order to achieve that we need intelligence so we have to focus on if it's on gathering intelligence identifying the enemy's intentions and then actually preventing him from implementing his intentions we've never been in a position where we've had too much equipment in fact i think very few national bees have too much equipment but we have really had to work sometimes with a very minimal of equipment and then he's in terms of our means. but because of that we have learned to overcome certain obstacles in our both and really i think an outmaneuvered an enemy that in general how do you think wars in africa are different from a war south where at large chaotic on your content that. i think was in

africa. just of austria from other wars and although there are some similarities to them i think first of all we have to look at why these wars are started and often they are not started by all means test or to buy the strength to do it disillusion groups of people and those groups of people. sometimes transition into a proxy force and and then supported by outside forces in terms of finance or in terms of it but mental in terms of training. but i also think the environment in which we operate is vastly different from else way you know we operate from jungle type terrain desert type terrain and everything in between as well and then i think we need to look at the the manpower itself where is there is nothing wrong with the african so jane fact is

a very good soldier if you strictly trained and late. but many of these soldiers are really put it trained and they then suffer from. something that most on me suffer from in the world and that is in adequate command and control and when you combine all of those elements together it becomes a very different type of war we have to operate across large tracts of land with no infrastructure and we often have no a support as it's we have no way in which directly move troops. it might be one or two helicopters but those helicopters of very stretched in what they can do and what they particular missions on. in africa we have to adept constantly to what's happening and then add to that the type of environment and terrain we operating in . he said that you hire people of all races and that sometimes you work with people

that he has to fight against how does that work inside a team i mean can you rely on your a former enemies when things start to go wrong well. one has to look at where not when i made that comment that was made in executive outcomes was in operation and despite everything the media claimed about the south african defense force it was a multi-racial army so many of our fighting men came from mainly black units and i saved in one such unit that they were men i trusted to night with us and we've we've had the same type of background in so far is the just want it to be it was prince and we had many business from the african national congress is doing the m.k. which apply to join us and those that had the correct profile and had the correct experience and knowledge excepted into country or company rather. the bottom

line is we work as a company and as a team and everyone has a part to play in that team regardless of what she's political leadings might be but we don't go out and hire people who we've actually opposed on the battlefield. in more recent times although we have members in our company that come from numerous african countries everyone knows that when we would we would get as a unified team and we have a unified go to achieve on behalf of the government to assist not a problem of distrusting the people with us we know we can trust them we've worked with them and they know what is expected of them. now you believe that only africans can solve africa's problems are you saying that if foreign forces including here and peacekeepers withdraw from africa the continent will finally have peace and prosperity i firmly believe that idea africans can solve africa's

problems. i think we need to have a look at who is. driving a lot of the crime which is taking place and i'm speaking of whether it be traunch national crime organized crime in terms of resource stripping the resource if that is the main cause of many of the problems we have in africa. i think that the un forces are bloated. in other words totally oversized and the budgeted in terms of what they gave because they successes on that many. usually when we have brought about a situation within a conflict with the enemy or with the state decides to negotiate the first people to russia know the un who then damone dow departure and as soon as we depart they forces said miska late out of control as do they have budgets. i can use sierra leone as an example eighteen thousand men to replace what two hundred men

did at an astronomical budget quote don't think that he's really looking at the interest the best because but i do think that africa has a large amount of responsibility for the problems that finds itself in. the continent allowed themselves to be. misled by and in many instances this miss this mr device as custom very seriously. but i do believe that many of these foreign forces in africa are not you to solve problems but to ensure that the problems continue. therefore i believe that i knew we can solve a problem. thank you very much for this and for a topical to even barlow with the founder of the executive outcomes private land a company officer of executive outcomes against all odds talking about the truth behind the mercenary wars that is it for this edition of surfing call i will say

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the final sixteen of the world. and three. coming up. in spain are playing in. russia. with europe all. the way.