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with us for the cross. hello and welcome to cross talk where all things considered i'm peter lavelle the fruit of the poisonous tree this is what critics are calling the ongoing investigation of alleged collusion with russia during the two thousand and sixteen election in the meantime the upper echelons of the f.b.i. has been decimated proven misconduct as russia gate morphed into f.b.i. . talking investigations i'm joined by my guest in washington. a presidential

historian and a former white house adviser to two american presidents also in washington we have richard goodstein he is a democratic political strategist and former advisor to hillary clinton's two presidential campaigns and in new york we have lionel he's a legal analyst and a news decoder at lionel media dot com all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate line to let me go to you first in new york i was i don't usually read the wall street journal but i did come across a fascinating op ed a few days ago mahler's fruit of the poisonous tree it makes no difference how honorable he is his investigation is tainted by the bias that attended origin in two thousand and sixteen is this investigation the result of a poisonous tree go ahead and you're a legal analyst so go ahead. and the doctrine of the through the poisonous tree is applicable and also keep in mind where all of this started from was hillary clinton trying to explain to the world how she lost a rigged election everything that followed all of the derivative analyses all of

the investigations all became relevant because of that initial attempt on her part to explain either how she lost or how the russians were somehow involved in it and then as it evolved the american people understand there are biased sees it's ok for an f.b.i. agent to have a political inclination that's one thing but this makes watergate look like a walk in the park it is contaminated it is oh she almost i laid it's rank. and it's all there for our viewing pleasure ok richard i'm suppose i'm it's really obvious i'll give you the opposing position go ahead my friend so i read that wall street journal piece that you refer to which i frankly peter saw as twisted bordering on the doraine just for this reason if peter struck with singlehandedly out to keep donald trump from being president he knew everything about the

counterintelligence investigation of donald trump he knew that don jr and the rest of the crew met with the russians in trump tower he knew the papadopoulos had met with you know had bragged to the australian a baster about the dope the dirt on on hillary he knew about felix ater trying to get a trump tower moscow bill and he knew that there was fake there with lies put out about about the trump tower meeting and yet he did nothing to disclose to the public that this counterintelligence investigation was going on before donald trump got elected and at the same time he encouraged komi to put out that letter that was so damaging ten days before the. campaign was over that was struck still and so to me this notion that one of the poisonous tree is twisted it is prevert and as i said i think kind of duran to it speaks to how people want to kind of see ghosts

you know donald trump refers to this as a witch on the phrase witch hunt became because there were no which is. gotten five plea agreements he's gotten another dozen or more people indicted these are not witches these are real humans who have pled guilty to crimes so sorry if somehow or other ok because richard roth had. to be honest here all of these crimes have nothing to do with russia number one ok at least the russian government here let me let me and i want to agree with lionel and richard here because richard said something that's very interesting you see what you want to in this both sides see exactly what they want and we've been watching this go on for two years but doug i think one of the things that i would contest with richard is that we don't really know when this counter intelligence operation started because the players that are involved keep changing their story ok we're supposed to be july now looks like it was in spring and we have the issue of informants or spies whatever word you want

but it looks like they were looking at members of the f.b.i. we're looking at the trim campaign much earlier and that my account for richard i'm going to speak to doug right now the insurance policy that struck talked about go ahead what is your take on everything we've heard so far and there's a very good reason why peter struck didn't leak some of this because it's nothing to leak he didn't know that the media would cover it so well i mean twelve year olds. oh man a for deals that we all knew about in washington anyway i would say this i would say why wouldn't you recuse yourself a person of integrity if it was the other way around if it was a pro republic. can in there and even a cape if your wife is getting seven hundred thousand dollars and you know that five hundred thousand of that money is coming from terry mcauliffe who is the ninety ninety six clinton reelection finance chairman you know that money's coming

from there why wouldn't you want to recuse yourself this is a professional organization the f.b.i. so it's really bad there's one simple reason why they didn't recuse themselves they thought hillary was going to win exactly and thought he'd be the f.b.i. director and peter struck was on the fast track to promotion as well that's why they did expose any of it ok like i say one thing sure if you're going to get to it gets two against one richard please jump in go ahead just a quick thing on mckay business his wife was the democratic candidate for the state senate position in virginia she got help from the democratic party in virginia to turn this into hillary clinton money again it's twisted it's really kind of making facts up and people keep doing it because it's a and it's a mystery to make sure. you know. all right gentlemen

janell go knock it over it's already we're not going to resolve that particular issue on this program here let me go to lionel. i'm not going to put words into anyone's mouth and i can read someone's text messages this is from peter struck and they and i mean i did did did lisa page of the district actually do any work i mean how many times they message each other but here's one of them will. we will get we will stop him and it was directed at trump we will stop him i think it's a i think all of us would agree you could have you could call trump an idiot a fool a buffoon that's fine but when you start reading these texts it looks more like a plan to me and i don't think that's twisted go ahead lionel. well here is a question to not only did they work but these were putative lovers. did they ever love but that for another show look let's go for the big hit parade let's look at mr mr mahler's track record he had matter fourteen gates pre-dated and today did

trump big deal so why do whatever you want then you've got flynn and papadopoulos who get their ass are indicted for lying so your main witness pled guilty tell me now on my next prosecutor and there's nothing worse to call your first witness you pled guilty to lying yes but you're not lying now you know what that and who dies third. it's some imaginary russians who they figured wow they're not going to show up in court some dead and that came on the heels of the f.b.i. trying to explain why they basically ignored protests and warnings of some kid who was about to shoot up a school so you know what you know what mother of got so far that fat that's the big that's the big nothing burger as for he said he got it all of a vote for. anyone that's watch this program for the last two years knows that i

think that this is. you know a delusion this whole thing but what i'm really more interested in because of looking for collusion they have actually found what i believe is true corruption in the f.b.i. and i think that's what's really interesting here richard i mean you have major figures over the last few months that have left the f.b.i. and it's all because of these investigations here i mean you are do you support a thorough investigation i'm not saying i don't like special prosecutors but i think there needs to be a cleaning of house here there's just too much that has come out with the i.g. report that really casts a lot of doubt on the bias of the upper echelon of the f.b.i. and i think the american people have a right to know go ahead richard so i think a lot of these f.b.i. officials who have left left because they are nauseated the donald. runs the government and looks like he wants to run the f.b.i. like a mob boss look his hero was roy cohn who is basically

a lawyer to the mob and roy cohn with a fixer he thinks the justice department and the f.b.i. should act as his personal fixers and when they don't he's offended he's offended that komi wouldn't drop it which he asked to do about mike flynn and one final thing i mean one one point you know doug doug said well the reason that struck didn't put the word out about trump being subject to a counterintelligence investigation about russian collusion is that nobody interested would be interested trouble one by a handful of votes in michigan and wisconsin do you think that really nobody in those states would just kind of go. in the russians but forget it no heck know that if they really wanted to take down he would have put the word out and he didn't that's what makes this whole thing so ridiculous this notion of strong somehow trying to take out will it really could have any did it can't but we don't know everything yet richard let me go to doug because the second half of the second volume of the i.g. report will be talking about that but but does the teams mean one minute before we

go to the break here i mean i think we learned enough so far and we're going to learn a whole lot more because a lot of people get to start testifying in front of congress is that there was there was some kind of collusion going on in the f.b.i. from the evidence that we have now go ahead doug yeah absolutely and there are there were no statements pro tromp among these f.b.i. people richardson turning it around to make it sound like trump is running the f.b.i. look we have the judicial branch the legislative branch the executive branch we do not have the justice of department branch they're not independent nobody elected them they come under the executive branch they should be donald trump's justice department not obama's justice department the american people like to trump not clinton sorry ok but you know what i did but it didn't but it did but at the same time you do have jets. sions and you have christopher ray there being very tepid right here and when we get back from the break i want to talk about why those two characters are weighing in the way they are ok gentlemen to jump in after

a short break we'll continue our discussion on the f.b.i. and russia. i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter to us is over one trillion dollars and. more than ten thousand dollars fine tamping each day. eighty five percent of global wealth he longs to be old for bridge eight point six percent market saw a thirty percent rise last year some with four hundred to five hundred trees per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars ai industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need to remember is one one just shows you can't afford to

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me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to us from the world of politics or business i'm show business i'll see them. welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing the f.b.i. in russia gate. ok let's go back to lionel in new york lionel the other character outside of peter struck that i find very very interesting even kind of mysterious is rod rosenstein i mean why hasn't he recused himself because he's actually a witness in all of this stuff and he's overseeing the moeller investigation i find that to be very troubling go ahead lionel. because there's

a sense of paralysis they're not so this is not supposed to happen for the longest time you know we've used the term deep state or intel state or police state or whatever you want to call it whatever you want to call this government within the government but for years they've they've run this with impunity and by the way this is not the frontline the rank and file f.b.i. agents are out there investigating bank robberies and federal fishing violations those are great people same thing for the d.o.j. but this is the what the seventh floor of this notorious group they don't know what's happening they went into this cock sure ready to go they thought they were locked and loaded that they were going to somehow bring a part or cause the dissolution of the house of trump not think about this not really one thing has ever materialized so far and by the way let me add on to this the whole russian collusion thing apparently the the extent of the evil machinations of the russian enterprise is facebook ads so so far everything has

collapsed and there has been a sense of paralysis and what i suspect is they told everybody nobody move nobody we queued this will somehow go away this cannot be happening it's learned helplessness it's part rally as this but something tells me he'll be getting his marching orders but without this say so well it seems to me and we go to richard here this is the ultimate boomerang effect here we wouldn't found out about any of these things unless they believed that there was collusion with the russians i mean it's all coming back to them in all the characters who are involved and i want to stay with the rod rosenstein richard i mean how do you explain that i mean he's in the middle of all of these things he signed one of these five warrants against carter page i mean him and he wrote the recommendation letter to fire komi i mean he's got his finger tips on all kinds of things there and should he be a someone that's calling the shots go ahead. so rosenstein yes he did

sign the pfizer warrant as did predecessors of his and it was approved by one judge after another after another after another all of whom were republican appointees so this notion that somehow this is this democratic kind of internet and i don't there's only conflict if you brought up the dossier you brought up the dossier and they were less than transparent on who paid for the dossier and who put it together so you know you know we can mince our words right here but my point is it's take the city i mean he's involved in many elements of this should he recused himself because i don't think he's an honest broker go ahead richard. he's really only involved in one element as a fact witness which is what komi said to him and what the predicate was for that letter that he sent to the president right this investigation peter is going to look at ways in which the russians tried to affect the outcome of this campaign and

money laundering and bank fraud and any number of different things and that little piece of rosenstein is going to be next to nothing ok i think the the russian meddling in the in two thousand and sixteen election is going to be a very very thin volume of anything because we were saying you know ok but richard after two years and after that that orgy of leaks at the beginning of his the administration you'd think someone would cough it up by now but they haven't here ok well i hear what i think go i think it's a miraculous i'll let me get one final question i think it's miraculous frankly that the molar team does not leak and these thirteen and agri democrats that come talks about donald trump contributed more to democrats than all of those thirteen working from all are put together so it's his way of deflecting i get it but it's a miraculous that you list sections and jarryd and roger so all these people that for god their meetings are discussions with the russians it's a little bit more than a coincidence don't you think. and i believe actually roger stone and then he is

meeting with this really weird character that wants trump's money which i mean if this guy's a paid f.b.i. he informant that was recruited from the cia then they have some real personnel problems over at the f.b.i. believe me ok fine that's an interesting point i want to go back to christopher when sessions because i think this is also quite fascinating you know here we have oversight committees in congress you know i mean they're going to put out subpoenas they're going to put people in contempt i mean they want the frickin documents ok and they are very slow walking in. how do you explain that because and i say this in a very colloquial way and not in a very narrow way this is the trumpet d.o.j. this is the trump f.b.i. how do you explain it go ahead. that are slow walking because they know the whole world can change in twenty four hours and they don't want this information out you

can see why rod rosenstein why he threatened to that was chilling to me threatened his own oversight committee what has happened to the u.s. constitution i just want to revert back to this russian because it's so incredible to me you're telling me two hundred thousand dollars worth of facebook ads through the election to hillary clinton and a five hundred thousand dollars speech to bill clinton that people could see on you tube free of charge didn't throw the election but i think rod rosenstein it's chilling threat to the oversight committee should scare us a little bit about what's happening to this post constitutional drift we're in in this country i think it's ok. doug i'm really glad you brought that up and i think all of you know we all of us have our own opinion and some of them are very at odds but i think you mention a point that i think we all should really care about not to go back to richard on this because i'm really well and i've been saying this for a very long time i'm very worried about institutional erosion here and the

confidence the public has in those institutions and as things stand right now richard it doesn't look great for the f.b.i. in what we have learned so far and we're going to learn a whole lot more if and i love how the f.b.i. loves the use the word candor for telling the truth i hope peter straub will be will give candor when he's talking because i think he's got a lot to explain i mean i went through a political article i mean all of the things he said i mean of course it can be bluster impress his girlfriend but you know there's a lot in my gut there's a lot of substance there go ahead richard about the institutions we need to protect them. i mean and struck said bad things about bernie sanders about her about chelsea clinton so somehow or other obviously we're putting the spotlight on what he said about trump look i think that that james komi because the average president of the i am glad you brought her down to the f.b.i. only twice he twice by giving that press conference which he had no authority to do

absent the issue that letter absolutely at the end of october so i think he has damaged the f.b.i. but these people who work in the justice department swear allegiance to the united states of america not allegiance to donald trump you know doug says with the trump justice department these people are allegiance to the united states of america to us not to trump and therefore they cannot turn a blind eye can the problem with what the house is trying to do is they're trying to get documents so they can walk over to the white house and say donald this is what they have against you because they're full but rich not right but richard at the same time in the i.g. report you have one of these high officials in the f.b.i. making reference to hillary clinton as president so i mean you can every thing you just said can be turned on its head ok they were referring to her as the president but for the election ok i want to get equal time right in the world did they not disclose this counter-intelligence and that's the that's the thing that's so nice to find out you know they originally thought it wanted to elect her and then if

they really cared about the country and not the candidate or against a candidate they should have informed the tram campaign that some of your folks are talking to people who were worried about i think that could have been done that would have been their job ok that would have been the protocol but they didn't do it again that cast suspicion lionel you remarkably quiet jump in. oh i don't want to interrupt this but i hate to dispel all this hate it with all due respect to richard i'm sure you're a fine fine man that is a slave to the facts and he said good man is my friend so don't play here. and these are our friends and he's a friend of truth withstanding this is about one thing going on it's not about just it's not about the f.b.i. said about anything it's. tromp they hate trump they hate it's the opposite of a fetish it's trench from

a range of it's it's all about how big the way he can win and we will do everything in our power using every machination available to try to extricate club back under to recreate go back through time bandits do have is it because trump card not the president and people not you richard but people somehow that sounds somewhat like you wake up every morning and they say this can't be and that ed and there's nothing to do with the constitution avenue or the poisonous tree nothing to do with mahler just a letter that. fact that they have had he could not have won and everything that they tried including that red state added of theirs who lost their rigged election she blow it ok they have a glock to get this a good line really great line you know i think we all we all agree on this program that every individual can have bias ok you can have you know you like chocolate

milk milkshake supposed to be no ok you have a bias towards war this is a let me finish let me finish let me go to doug here but these are sworn officers that swear an oath to the constitution and i think that all of us are kind of close in age and i remember the f.b.i. t.v. series remember that what kind of guys they were they were the straight guys. straight up book by by the way jade hoover read every single screen production did you know that you know that j. edgar hoover read the scripts and he was rigorous about it so he created a lot of mythology there but i don't serious know doug i mean i'm kind of a counter to the line of course you can have a bias but it doesn't mean you can break the law and that's the difference ok that's what i'm worried about go ahead. i was a friend of f. from zimbalist jr and miss him it was interesting person who started the. yeah i'd like to know who wears the pro trump tech i have. a little balance here

where some pro trump people that serve on the molar committee it seems to me that this is going to be portrayed as a partisan witch hunt because that's what it is and they have what they want there's no attempt to bring any balance to are there any facts to it and they're pursuing twelve year old deals that man a furred may. the f.b.i. but i know about manna for deals that were twelve years old this is how desperate it's become in order to try to get some indictments i think it's pretty pathetic at this point and it's good for us to know the truth ok and that's what we all want on this panel in our viewers we want the truth so let's continue down the path i'm interested in what mr struck will have to say many thanks and i guess in washington and in new york and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t. see you next time and remember stumbles.

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what politicians do something. they put themselves on the line they get accepted or rejected. so when you want to be president i'm sure. some want to press. you to go on to be press dislikable for free in the morning can't be good. i'm interested always in the ones in the house. during question. in the heart of the swiss on the shores of lake geneva. in the land of banks and discretion you'll discover the most secretive place in switzerland.

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