yes many thanks mr sammon for love we guessed was so beautiful programme on r.t.e. wish you the best and finally from show how can you measure this from pakistan nice you happy to see it is me now after a long time where you keep churning and shabby should be nice to hear that you're watching the show now back to alex his speaking to leading large on the basque ways who led the successful remain campaign in gibraltar to an overwhelming victory gemma you were very much the public face of the referendum pamphila gibraltar but. impatient more broadly in business both of us here. we have to hear the chamber of commerce and federation and women have always been quite under represented at these dinners that question was raised in the last chamber to now specifically on the subject but i think you know that it was there's always room for improvement we are improving slowly but surely so we're starting to see managing partner of one of the top in the culture the practice is now this female we've got what we're seeing the improvement happening organically as it were. a joke of

us because you're led to the main campaign here. and you get ninety six percent of the vote which is. more my go for independence in scotland must have been a really satisfactory result is recession. is a great result for about two seconds before we heard the rest of the rest the results in the u.k. so yes we won the battle lost the war. but throughout the campaign we also had the spanish foreign minister upping the ante in telling us what it was that would happen if the u.k. decided to leave the you so it was. he almost assisted us in our campaign to that ninety six percent so when the day after when you realized as a whole you could forty fifty to forty two to break it must've been like a funeral and gibraltar must have a real sense of loss it was it was a day. everyone in gibraltar you walked up and down main street which is our

principal road here and you just felt it in the air you know there was a there was an air of despondency you know people were people were deeply saddened but the irony to a certain extent is that the people that were most affected were the spanish workers who work in gibraltar and that's because i mean bear in mind that they've already had a situation where the french it clears and they lost their jobs so they were very worried about what this year was when that was in thousand sixty nine so the front to close in general franco general franco and opened a major two opened in the year i was born so i've never lived in egypt with the frontier closed but these workers many of whom have either worked through it themselves or have family that had worked through it themselves they were extremely concerned about their family's income and two years later the margin that you'd still be in a fundamental uncertainty about what the future holds you know i mean if i'm honest sometimes i can't believe that the result went the way that it did it. i can't

believe the two years down the line we are still in this uncertainty that nobody knows you know be in westminster knows what's going to happen and as a result we don't know what's going to happen you know the seeming european politics just changes so frequently the spanish government's just changed a week ago nobody would have expected that so if you believe uncertainty is it's very worrying for businesses here in trouble to a new finger. to feet. before nor first. calculations on things our government is is really pulling out all the stops they're doing everything possible to make sure that we feature the reality is however and this is what we were worried about during the campaign the reality is that with everything that's going on at the moment with all the issues that are up in the air. comes fairly low down westminster's parasnis and yet you know there is a certain sense in gibraltar of what will happen when you hear the. the issues of

northern ireland being aired frequently but our border isn't quite up there so there is a certain concern that. we are not as high on the agenda as obviously we'd like to be. given the situation where fundamental. change the european all the n.t. to gibraltar have you looked the other possible models i mean couldn't be brought to be like them and find its own relationship with the european economic area i'm sure the government have had all sorts of other options but we are limited by the two to be tracked which is signed in seventeen thirteen. so this limits us because then the war of the spanish succession over gibraltar fell into british exactly and spain has a right of first refusal over the territory of gibraltar so that is somewhat more limiting than the for example and of course scotland has the right to choose their own future so just. for a second i understand the point of the international treaty treaty you track the

foundation of gibraltar status but let's say that wasn't the case would such an option be attractive to people in gibraltar if you could take away the difficulty of the putsch of the international treaty which of course is not something you can wish away also not you could simply wiped clean at the moment we have to face the reality that the two eleven so you know whereas the option has been explored previously unfortunately the constructions are such that there's only so far that you can explore it before the reality hits home that you know we have spain who really is demanding back at every turn so where is it explore it no real mileage in a german david cameron could have done to some your expertise and conduct could i. have you to come up with a solution for why their predicament as u.k. politics is a. real stalemate at the present moment if you've got. i wish i

did i wish i did but unfortunately there are so many factors in the mix so there is the there's a conservative party itself that. is not as simple as coming up with a solution because there are so many external factors involved as well so you know as far as we're concerned and we just have to make the best out of what we can and what. we were frequently asked for before up until last may i was chair of the federation small businesses here and what we were saying to the u.k. is no we can't determine the outcome of what the negotiations with the e.u. will be but bilaterally the u.k. will come up with a with an agreement of sorts which secures businesses and give some certainty to our businesses now that is starting to come so at least i think that we are doing everything that we can to try and. give some certainty to businesses in gibraltar.

what i used to dabble in economics one way of telling her that nearly it was possible to the number of creams and move the building workers going to gibraltar at the present moment then you would say the broader economy pretty robust so. the european dimension really impacted on the i think that it's there is there in the background i mean the economy is doing better than ever i mean it's fairly strong but we are there are concerns you know even companies are looking at other options list has become a big part of the economy goes into it is that we have an online gaming is a big part of our economy so the uncertainty is there bristling in the background but yeah as you say you know the economy strong the number of the construction sites in general to indicate that we are a fairly robust economy but you know we have to terry and history will tire. as

a lawyer i had to look long term too to see what's what's coming around the next corner. despite the clear for sudden the looming on the horizon. the economy or gibraltar they're calling me on the rock is standing for. good so. he's quite strong and hopefully that will remain the case for many years to come back and settle your relationship with the european union but i can offer you the i like simon quick for being part of the alex thank you so much for the interview thank you very much you know the drill for the whiskey in the past i've owned the whole gibraltar let me thank you very much. i keep participant in business and public affairs and gibraltar of a number of years has been former trade and industry minister peter montague folk you see alex spoke to him about the changing relationship between gibraltar and. the border of spain reopened their frankl and coinciding with european union

entry for spain very much so franco died in one thousand seventy five and we had decided to join the e.u. with richard in seventy three when franco died obviously the transition to democracy in spain was very difficult and although there was opinion that wanted to open the front here especially on the left there were the remnants of fascist opinion that resisted that and it was spanish accession to the e.u. when eighty five in eighty six that effectively provided the context within which normality would trickle to was restored could amount to. a form of the industry minister for gibraltar tell us about how the structure of the economy has changed over the last twenty years or so enormously over the last twenty thirty years has transformed its place so from a place that used to rely very heavily on ministry of defense expenditure to a private sector economy where access to external markets is critical. gibraltar is

a service economy in financial services e-commerce obviously doesn't tourism and shipping bunkering. transformation has been absolutely unique in the context of southern europe absolutely and transformational it has really been a journey from a public sector dominated economy to a very into the no real private sector location. assess the risks of but access to that no service dominated the partly the whole economic model of gibraltar really depends historically on access to external marcus and to any great extent access to the u.k. and access to the rest of the. of course this doesn't just mean access in terms of services it means x. in terms of labor that comes to gibraltar gibraltar is not an island has a workforce that parking gives in spain but works in gibraltar so the whole european union environment which includes free movement of people and of services

and of capital has been critical to the current underpinning economy and. europe and see a model which would work satisfactorily in the negotiations brought up you'd get a separate status. model that would suit gibraltar for example i think it's difficult to talk about specific models look at the difficulty the u.k. itself is having in terms of what model best fits gibraltar knows what it wants ninety six percent of people here voted to remain in the e.u. what we would like is continued a membership we would like this is the european economic area indeed we would like to continue to form part of the single market we would like that to continue to be still access to those european markets so quite how that is achieved whether it is done as part of the u.k. agreement if there is a break see that. those matters in some other fashion i think we'll have to wait

and see our preference of a strong preference of course is that whatever applies to travolta will be what applies to the u.k. itself and it will be on terms that will guarantee to the u.k. and gibraltar access to the customs union to the single market and to those matters and those facilities it has made gibraltar successful as an economy and they'll be more from gibraltar's former trade minister minister peter monti gleeful after the break. economists try to measure the impact of the old pups and one thing that we know is that they make people they make people happy the world cup was intended to have a profit for the national government is it's not a project that brings approach some projects and things people will help in this it's extremely profitable because football in general is very profitable but of

course if you're quiet huge investment on the government side they do is that this will slow development of football culture in egypt. originally thought is drastic to us it's taken care of our cars just as you could function most of them from a completely different cards i would just. as static. the problem is that we kind of how they stayed within the state they called nice this non part of sweden. and i want to talk to some people who have met. no no it's not stop stop stop stop. cocobolo my culture is christian country and we don't do things like and we shall you if you do

then we hate you and somebody hopefully you can do something about the stuff. we cannot be naive about to not attract more gangsters rapists and these are actually that are tearing down this city we wants to be a swedish country and we want to know the people who live here and now to go back. welcome back to the alex. from gibraltar how much of the debates in the u.k. has tom going to question of the irish border and the possibility of some sort of

customs union being a potential solution to that but from a gibraltar point of view as part of the european mainland the economic area that the single market is of more importance than by actually being in a customs union absolutely gibraltar although we joined the e.u. with the ukraine one hundred seventy three we were always excluded from the customs union so we already have a border for goods but the access to the single marketing services and the freedom of movement of people is absolutely critical just like in the u.k. you have issues with how the n.h.s. and other sectors can be properly resourced we have that issue here as well so it's critical for gibraltar not just for the customs union issues we serve them for the u.k. but for us that single market and freedom of movement of labor is in some way a protected because of much of our economy depends on the fluidity so it's

a bit of an investor relations of business because much of the the black city of arguments in the united kingdom is about restricting freedom of movement but i say gibraltar gibraltar khana me depends on freedom of movement that is true to a large extent gibraltar is a very open place gibraltar has a large workforce that lives in gibraltar and lives in spain and travels into gibraltar so the coverage will. thrives. from freedom of movement in the way that is intended to work freedom of movement for workers that come to gibraltar they earn their keep they pay their taxes they pay the social security and they contribute i think the excesses of freedom of movement the difficulties of the reason when there has been a lack of economic convergence when there has been a disparity of interest of the different countries that might have their citizens exchanging each other's labor in the case of southern europe because the labor

comes not just from spain it comes from portugal and elsewhere that relationship has been beneficial. and we'll hear. of gibraltar if you're able to send a message to the. reason me as prime minister about. first of gibraltar what would it be i think your role to wants to keep close to the u.k. the u.k. showing support for gibraltar i think we're very grateful that i said before most of our work is with the u.k. even in financial services and in other sectors but we are european many people in travolta regard being british european and gibraltarian as in no way contradictory they are part of a triangle of identity that is absolutely and absolutely preservable and what i would ask the united kingdom is it in defending its own interests that it not forget. but indeed that very large opinion in the u.k.

in scotland in northern ireland in wales that regard itself as european. the point is always made that the u.k. did not vote to leave europe. but being in europe means you have rights and facilities which you've got to somehow preserve and i think our appeal is that it should be a sensible breaks it that puts people's interests ahead of. that amount of thank you very much for the links. to discuss the impact of breakfast on the local economy alex spoke to. brought you the leading real estate broker mike. nichols who runs the largest estate agents in gibraltar on the us will of course politically in gibraltar chesterton's was mainly impact of. the property market here mr broughton well somewhat perversely it's been beneficial we woke up the day off the referendum and thought the end is nigh the border was going to close

everybody would leave. the opposite has happened we have forty percent of our workforce commuting in and the immediate reaction was that people started moving in from spain because i thought well one day they can't get to work so there was a rush on rental property so there are some classics so the fact that you can have a garden to you. then a few months time no but then two years they made people take provision to establish their own properties stay in the rock absolutely thirteen twenty seven thousand jobs thirteen thousands of employees come across the border every day and so it only takes a few hundred of those to want to live here and all of a sudden we're full up so we are actually full up developers have responded you've probably been around and seen lots of cranes in a way we can't build fast enough so if you look at our last two years never even imagined this last two years would have been our best two years although you spent economic forecasting this year when i was dabbling in economics or a generation or so ago the hudson institute they're forecasting technique for

regional economies was to quote the number the claims and buildings if you apply that to gibraltar then you would come to conclusion this was an economy booming and for i think it's it's somewhere between robust and booming yes the it is though brics it won't affect our economic model we think we've got an economic model whether we're in or outside the e.u. most of our service is outside of chip rely on the internet you know we don't have physical exports this is nothing we create a good point of resources. it is so we can survive on services in or outside the e.u. but your services company have access to the european economic area which must be a substantial advantage yes but when we had a look at it about twelve months ago the study suggested perhaps eighty five percent even close to ninety percent service is going to the u.k. so we will retain a common market with the u.k. i think that's already been agreed so our worst case scenario is a say a ten twelve fifteen percent hit to g.d.p.

if if and that's the worst case so you would identify the major economic threat from blacks at the gibraltar is in the movement of people into work absolutely we're not in the customs union today so we have issues at the board in terms of goods coming over the commercial border closer to a clock and if the low it doesn't get there in certain times we go to morrisons and there's no tomatoes and we have all of that with us with our sales going to happening in the u.k. according to the secret cabinet papers well we have those issues in our local shops is the mood of the commercial border is where we get our goods so we live with that is the fact that forty forty two percent of our workforce commuting every day it's a threat to the businesses here if they can't get their employees in we can't fit all those employees into gibraltar with the current housing which is why we're building more and so the threat is if spain play silly boys with the with the border will we still be able to get it will those employees still be able to get it but relocations not an option for everyone and it's not an easy option because

you're basically exchanging a ranch in spain for two bedroom flat and gibraltar would that be about the place comparable yes that's a good comparative however you'll be paying half the tax in gibraltar and a quarter of the hassle in gibraltar so in gibraltar you know you send your children to school and they do levels or g.c.s.e. snow you know we have we have sterling we have. our lorries virtually based on u.k. law it's probably ninety ninety percent the same. they are high street fifty percent of it u.k. shops fifty percent of it local so it's a very easy place to live if you're from the u.k. if you feel very comfortable here in the sunshine but tell me about the transition from the famous expenditure to the the much more service based economy to voters now i mean twenty five years ago. sixty percent brought in over six percent

i think we should be get rid of the last six percent and get a few more houses are no i don't think i've got a foot in to vote in the foot in britain i don't think britain should ever ever move away from gibraltar you can see how strategically located there well well located. you know we go for wars over the centuries and i think britain needs to keep gibraltar from a strategic point of view but also because the people want to be pretty severe you think i have to leave the still important oh you have to understand it come about your personal story because you are an expert you came via space as opposed to straight to gibraltar so right when i was first offered a job in general terms as finance director of a property development company this is what you see around here asian village and i don't think i've ever been to gibraltar so i accepted the job this is two thousand and two and for me it's just natural to live in spain i hadn't thought of leaving and we lived in spain. we had

a child we had our second child and then over the years spain is great but it's just quite burdensome painful in terms of living there and the more you get the more you fall in love with it so we took the decision seven eight years in we're going to move into lived here since i love it and if you have some sort of home for some abroad if you have some advice abroad the u.k. politicians. should we be looking at the gibraltar model and being outside the customs union which is currently the major center of debate u.k. but inside the european economic area as opposed to vice versa what would be your advice to u.k. politicians looking at the success of the bust most of the gibraltarian economy well as a remain are and ninety six percent of us were at the time i probably shifted my lesions to to

a lever over the last two years i'm not sure if we voted again possibly leave because i now realize i think there is life outside the e.u. how the e.u. have conducted themselves in that oshea sions doesn't make me want to be part of those those people the business model here. copes with being outside the customs union and i think we can have the confidence to trade beyond just the just the e.u. if you look at spain spain exports far more to goods and services far more to the u.k. and vice versa you know they they they need us we just need to stand up and and trust our inabilities a bit more so i think there's there's life outside the e.u. so i'm shifting and in terms of gibraltar's place in the negotiations i mean ireland is dominating negotiations the border issue in ireland. i suppose the single biggest issue in the negotiations that may be the straw that breaks the camel's back but you brought a hardly figures in your estimation do you think that the environment for gibraltar

. softly softly catches barbara with island you have to willing parties i believe between northern and southern ireland if they don't want a hard border but then you have the e.u. you don't want to make it easy to have this soft border because that will encourage other people to leave so funny enough where we're negotiating with the e.u. that i believe that it's not in their interest to have an answer. if you take it here it's not too willing parties we're willing to always willing to talk with spain they don't see this as a negotiation. stacie is a negotiation with the u.k. they've got the e.u. on the side so i think we're probably be the last piece of the jigsaw to work through and no one's really thought of a solution yet spain doesn't want to solution but i think the eleventh hour there be a solution and in my mind my prediction is that we would stay roughly the same and we will carry on as usual there won't be a big cliff edge approach on march twenty ninth next year and we continue in our

slow but sure growth to prosperity to brawl to property prices making the world up but. slowly and surely move fast steady and sure increase. thank you very much thank you very. so i think that's been i myself the whole. show it's good bye for we'll see a mixtape. start in iraq next week in the second part of our special series and to brotha we'll be diving into the history and culture of the territory a meeting some of its finest points writers and historians i'm going to stay at the sticks even like gibraltar amazing you would not believe that thirty thousand people could have so much out in them i'm go also be exploring how gibraltarians are coping with the implications of brecht's that we've been hit hard but i would tell you what it's like a catch when you grab it like that and you drop it always falls on its feet.

in the heart of the swiss alps this is a place probably more secretive than the pentagon more mysterious than the cia and better guarded than for knox swiss customs are here permanently on the site is controlled by them and they impose the opening times for the opposite it is from his office the procedures in place of the strictest in all europe masterpieces by artists like pecan so annoyed it can't boards and sold inside this warehouse that's where the report comes in it covers up deals which are naturally discreet

commercially discreet felt but also discreet because they concern fraud. some of those paintings are linked to dark secrets nobody knows how many of these secrets a kept inside the geneva freeport. and you'll never obtain an inventory of all the works in the freeport who knows how many there are three hundred three thousand three hundred thousand it's a matter of confidentiality only is it the world like the art business. i.

know. this i was told headlines on our t.v. the kremlin and the white house confirm the first official summit between donald trump and. the international chemical weapons watchdog the o.p.c. w. . now to assign blame for the toxic attacks. it is day fifteen of the world cup in russia and tonight we'll find out the last teams to go through to the next round of the tournament the fans just can't get enough of football's biggest event.