well make victory gemma you were very much the public face of the referendum town feeling for growth a bit. representation like more broadly and business. what we have done is here the chamber of commerce and federation and women have always been quite under represented at these dinners that the question was raised in the last chamber to now specifically on the subject but i think you know that was there's always room for improvement we are improving slowly but surely so we're starting to see you know we've got managing partner of one of the top in the culture the practice is now this female we've got what we're seeing the improvement happening organically as it were. the job of us because you're led to the main campaign here. and you get ninety six percent of the vote which is . more my goal for independence in scotland to be a really satisfactory result is really satisfactory is a great result for about two seconds before we heard the rest of the rest the

results in the u.k. so yes we won the battle lost the war. but throughout the campaign we also had the spanish foreign minister upping the ante in telling us what it was that would happen if the u.k. decided to leave the you so it was. he almost assisted us in our campaign to that ninety six percent in the day after when you realized as a whole you could forty fifty to forty two. must've been like futile and gibraltar must have a real sense of loss it was it was a day when. everyone in gibraltar you walked up and down main street which is our principal road here and you just felt it in the air you know there was a there was an air of despondency you know people were people were deeply saddened but the irony to a certain extent is that the people that were most affected were the spanish workers who work in gibraltar. and that's because i mean bear in mind that they've

already had a situation where the french are close and they lost their jobs so they were very worried about what this year was when that was in that was in sixty nine so the front to close in general franco general franco and open to may to open the year i was born so i've never lived in egypt with the frontier closed but these workers many of whom have either worked through it themselves or have family that had worked with themselves they were extremely concerned about their family's income and two years later the margin that you'd still be in a position of fundamental uncertainty about what the future holds you know i mean if i'm honest sometimes i can't believe that the result went the way that it did. i can't believe that two years down the line we are still in this uncertainty that nobody knows you know being westminster knows what's going to happen and as a result we don't know what's going to happen you know the theme in european politics just changes so frequently the spanish government's just changed a week ago nobody would have expected that so if you level of uncertainty is it's

very worrying for businesses here in trouble to a new figure. to feed. the far north of the calculations on things our government is is really pulling out all the stops they're doing everything possible to make sure that we feature the reality is however and this is what we're worried about during the campaign the reality is that with everything that's going on at the moment with all the issues that are up in the air. comes fairly low down westminster's parasnis and yet you know there is a certain sense in gibraltar of what will happen when you hear the issues of northern ireland being aired frequently but our border isn't quite up there so there is a certain concern that. that we are not as high on the agenda as obviously we'd like to be. given the situation where the fundamental. tension all the and to gibraltar. have you looked to other possible models i mean couldn't

be brought to be like him and find his own relationship with the european economic area i'm sure that the government have had all sorts of other options but we are limited by the two to be tracked which is signed in seventeen thirteen. so this limits us because then the war of the spanish succession over gibraltar fell into british exactly and spain has a right of first refusal over the territory of gibraltar so that is somewhat more limiting than the for example and of course scotland has the right to choose their own future so just. for a second i understand the point of the international treaty to your track the foundation of gibraltar status but let's say that wasn't the case would such an option be attractive to people in gibraltar if you could take away the difficulty of the which of the international treaty which of course is not something you can wish away it's not something you could simply clean at the moment we have to face the reality that the two eleven so you know where is the option has been explored

previously unfortunately the constructions are such that there's only so far that you can explore it before the reality hits home that you know we have spain who really is demanding back at every turn so where is it explore it no real mileage in a german david cameron could have done to some your expertise and conduct could i. have you to come up with a solution for why their predicament as u.k. politics is a. real stalemate at the present moment if you've got the answer human gibraltar for the u.k. i wish i did i wish i did but unfortunately there are so many factors in the mix so there is the there's a conservative party itself there's. not a simple coming up with a solution because there are so many external factors involved as well so you know as far as we're concerned intervals we just have to. you know make the best out of

what we can and what. we were frequently asked for before up until last may i was chair of the federation small businesses here in gibraltar and what we were saying to the u.k. is no we can't determine the outcome of what the negotiations with the e.u. will be but bilaterally the u.k. will come up with a with an agreement of sorts which secures businesses and give some certainty to our businesses now that is starting to come so at least i think that we are doing everything that we can to try and. give some certainty to businesses in gibraltar. what i used to dabble in economics one way of telling her that nearly it was possible to the number of creams and move the building workers going to gibraltar at the present moment then you would say the broader economy looks pretty robust so . the european dimension the really important. i think that it's

there is there in the background i mean the economy is doing better than ever i mean it's fairly strong but we are there are concerns you know gaming companies are looking at other options list has become a big part of the economy goes into it is that we have an online gaming is a big part of our economy so the uncertainty is there bristling in the background but yeah as you say you know the economy strong the number of the construction sites in general to indicate that we are a fairly robust economy but you know we have to terrorism is gibraltarian as a lawyer i have to look long term too to see what's what's coming around the next corner despite the uncertainty and despite the. looming on the horizon germ of the economy or gibraltar they're calling me on the rock star going for. good so. economy is quite strong and hopefully. that will remain the case for many years to

come back and settle your ship with the european union but i can offer you the i like simon quit for being part of the alex island so devore thank you so much for the interview thank you very much you know the drill for the whiskey and the quick and pass it on the whole gibraltar let me thank you very much. i keep participant in business and public affairs and you're brought up a number of years has been former trade and industry minister peter montague folk you see alex spoke to him about the changing relationship between gibraltar and spain. the border of spain reopened but they're flying through and i'm coinciding with european union entry for spain very much so franco died in one thousand seventy five and we had decided to join the e.u. with britain seventy three when franco died obviously the transition to democracy spain was very difficult and although there was opinion that wanted to open the front here especially on the left there were the remnants of fascist opinion that

resisted that and it was spanish accession to the e.u. when eighty five in eighty six that effectively provided the context within which normality would trickle to was restored could amount to. a form of say the industry minister for gibraltar tell us about how the structure of the economy has changed over the last twenty years or so enormously over the last twenty thirty years has transformed its place so from a place that used to rely very heavily on ministry of defense expenditure to a private sector economy where access to external markets is critical of gibraltar is a service economy in financial services e-commerce obviously doesn't tourism and shipping bunkering. this transformation has been absolutely unique in the context of southern europe absolutely and transformational it has really been a a journey from a public sector dominated economy to. very into the no real private sector location

. assess the risks of but access to the no service dominated the partly the whole economic model of gibraltar really depends historically on access to external marcus' and to any great extent access to the u.k. and access to the rest of the. of course this doesn't just mean access in terms of services it means x. in terms of labor that comes to gibraltar not an island has a workforce that lives in spain but works in gibraltar so the whole european union environment which includes freedom of movement of people and of services and of capital has been critical to the current underpinning economy and. europe and see a model which would work satisfaction. in the negotiations brought up you'd get a separate status. model that would suit gibraltar for example i think it's

difficult to talk about specific models look at the difficulty the u.k. itself is having in terms of what model best fits gibraltar knows what it wants ninety six percent of people here voted to remain in the e.u. what we would like is continued a membership we would like this is the european economic area indeed we would like to continue to form part of the single market we would like that to continue to be still access to those european markets so quite how that is achieved whether it is done as part of the u.k. agreement if there is a breakthrough that accommodates those matters or in some other fashion i think we'll have to wait and see our preference are very strong preference of course is that whatever applies to travolta will be what applies to the u.k. itself and it will be on terms that will guarantee to the u.k. . access to the customs union to the single market and to those matters and those.

the to use it just made to prove successful as an economy and to be more from gibraltar as form of trade and industry minister peter a month ago before the break. it is your duty to toss this dross texting hostages taken care of our cause just please stand up for me you could function most of them from a completely different guise i would just. as static. the problem is that we kind of how they stayed within the state they called nice it's not part of this we don't. want to be something some people have money. no no and pacing up some stuff stuff stuff stuff that will take note book. my

culture is crisp country and we don't do things like that and we tell you if you do then we hate you and someday hopefully you can do something about the stuff. we cannot be naive about to not attract more gangsters rapists and these actually that are tearing down the city we want to be a swedish country and we want to know the people who live here now to go back. to going to straight to measure the impact of all from both clubs and one thing that we know is that they make people they make people happy in the world cup was intended to have approaches for the national government is its own the project and things approach and project the new things people. it's extremely profitable

because football in general is very profitable and of course if you're quiet huge investment on the government side they do is that this will show you told them to full of culture in agents. manufacture consent to public wealth. when the ruling classes protect themselves. in the final merry go round to be the one percent. we can all middle of the room stick. around i mean real news really.

welcome back to the alex. from gibraltar now much of the debates in the u.k. time going to question of the irish bauble and the possibility of some sort of customs union being a potential solution to the but from a gibraltar point of us part of the european mainland the economic area the single market is of more importance than by actually being in a customs union absolutely gibraltar although we joined the e.u. with the ukraine one hundred seventy three we were always excluded from the customs union so we already have a border for goods but the access to the single marketing services and the freedom of movement of people is absolutely critical just like in the u.k. you have issues with how the n.h.s. and other sectors can be properly resourced we have that issue here. well so it's

critical for gibraltar not just for the customs union issues we serve them for the u.k. but for us that single market and freedom of movement of labor is in some way a protected because much of our economy depends on the fluidity so it's a bit of an investor relations or business because much of the black city of arguments in the united kingdom is about restricting freedom of movement but i say gibraltar. depends on freedom of movement that is true to a large extent gibraltar is a very open place gibraltar has a large workforce that lives into baltar and lives in spain and travels into gibraltar so the cover model. thrives from freedom of movement in the way that is intended to work freedom of movement for workers that come to gibraltar they earn their keep they pay their taxes they pay the social security and they contribute i think the excesses of freedom of movement the difficulties of the reason when there

has been a lack of economic convergence when there has been a disparity of interest of the different countries that might have their citizens exchanging each other's labor in the case of southern europe because the labor comes not just from spain it comes from portugal and elsewhere that relationship has been beneficial. and will here. of gibraltar if you're able to send a message to the cabinet to resume is prime minister about what would suit them first of gibraltar what would it be because i think wants to keep close to the u.k. the u.k. showing a lot of support for gibraltar i think we're very grateful that i said before most of our work is with the u.k. even in financial services and in other sectors but we are european many people in regard to being british european and gibraltarian as you know a contradictory they are part of a. triangle of identity that is absolutely and absolutely preservable

and what i would ask the united kingdom is it in defending its own interests but i don't forget. but indeed that very large opinion in the u.k. in scotland in northern ireland in wales that regard itself as european. the point is always made that the u.k. did not vote to leave europe. but being in europe means you have rights and facilities which you've got to somehow preserve and i think our appeal is that it should be a sensible breaks it that puts people's interests ahead of dogma that amount to thank you very much for the findings or. to discuss the impact of breakfast on the local economy alex spoke to gibraltar as a leading real estate figure mike nichols. nichols who runs the largest estate agents in gibraltar and elsewhere of course but particularly gibraltar chesterton's was mainly impact of. the property market here mr broughton well somewhat

perversely it's been beneficial we woke up the day after a referendum and thought the end is nigh the border was going to close everybody would leave. the opposite has happened we have forty percent of our workforce commuting in and the immediate reaction was that people started moving in from spain because i thought well one day they can't get to work so there was a rush on rental property so that's some testing so the fact that you couldn't have a god and. then a few months time no but then two years there made people take provision to establish their own properties stay in the rock absolutely thirteen twenty seven thousand jobs thirteen thousand of our employees come across the border every day and so it only takes a few hundred of those to want to live here and all of a sudden we're full up so we are actually full up developers have responded you've probably been around and seen lots of cranes in

a way we can't build fast enough so if you look at our last two years never even imagined this last two years would have been our best two years although you spent economic forecasting this year when i was dabbling in economics or a generation or so ago the hudson institute and they're forecasting technique for regional economies was to quote the number of claims and buildings if you apply that to gibraltar then you would come to conclusion this was an economy booming and for i think it's it's somewhere between robust and booming yes the it is though brics it won't affect our economic model we think we've got an economic model whether we're in or outside the e.u. most of our service is outside of chip rely on the internet you know we don't have physical exports there is nothing we create goods point of use or services so we can survive on services in or outside the. you but your services company have access to the european economic area which must be a substantial advantage yes but when we had a look at it about twelve months ago the study suggested perhaps eighty five

percent even close to ninety percent service is going to the u.k. so we will retain a common market with the u.k. i think that's already been agreed so our worst case scenario is a say a ten twelve fifteen percent hit to g.d.p. if if and that's the worst case so you would identify the major economic threat from blacks at the gibraltar is in the movement of people into work absolutely we're not in the customs union today so we have issues at the board in terms of goods coming over the commercial border closer to a clock and if the low it doesn't get there in certain times to go to morrisons and there's no tomatoes and we have all of that with fresh water sales going to be happening in the u.k. according to the secret cabinet well we have those issues in our local shops at the mood of the commercial borders where we get our goods so we live with that is the fact that forty forty two percent of our workforce commuting every day it's a threat to the businesses here if they can't get their employees in we can't fit

all those employees into gibraltar with the current housing which is why we're building more so the threat is if spain play silly boys with the with the border will we still be able to get it will those employees still be able to get a real case and not an option for every one of us not an easy option because you're basically exchanging a ranch in spain for two bedroom flat gibraltar would that be a better place compared to yes that's a good comparative however you'll be paying half the tax in gibraltar and a quarter of the hassle in gibraltar so in gibraltar you know you send your children to school and they do levels or g.c.s.e. snow you know we have we have sterling we have. our law is virtually based on u.k. laws probably ninety ninety percent say they are high street fifty percent of it is u.k. . shops fifty percent of it local so it's a very easy place to live if you're from the u.k. you feel very comfortable here in the sun just shines

a. little musician from the famed expenditure to the much more service based economy to voters and i mean twenty five years ago. sixty percent brought over six percent you think you should be getting a lot last six percent get a few more houses are no i don't think i've got a foot in to vote in a foot in britain i don't think britain should ever ever move away from gibraltar you can see how strategically located there well well located. you know we go for wars over the centuries and i think britain needs to keep gibraltar from a strategic point of view but also because the people want to be pretty spiffy think the other half chillies are still important you have to understand it come about your personal story because you are an ex-pat you came via space as opposed to straight to gibraltar so right when i was first offered a job in gibraltar is as finance director of a property development company this is what you see around here asian village and i

don't think i've ever been to gibraltar so i accepted the job this is two thousand and two and for me it's just natural to live in spain i hadn't thought of leaving and we lived in spain. we had a child we had our second child and then over the years spain is great but it's just quite burdensome painful in terms of living there and the more you get the more you fall in love with it so we took the decision seven eight years in we're going to move into lived here since and i love it and if you have some sort of home for some abroad if you have some advice abroad to u.k. politicians. should they be looking at gibraltar model and being. outside the customs union which is commonly the major center of debate u.k. but inside the european economic area as opposed to vice versa what would be your advice to u.k.

politicians looking at the success of the bust most of the gibraltarian economy well as a remain are and ninety six percent of us were at the time i probably shifted my lesions to two a lever over the last two years i'm not sure if we voted again possibly leave because i now realize i think there is life outside the e.u. how the e.u. have conducted themselves in that o'shea sions doesn't make me want to be part of those those people the business model here. copes with being outside the customs union and i think we can have the confidence to trade beyond just the just the e.u. if you look at spain spain exports far more to goods and services far more to the u.k. and vice versa you know they they they need us we just need to stand up and and trust our inabilities a bit more so i think there is there is life outside the e.u. so i'm shifting and in terms of gibraltar's place in the negotiation i mean ireland

is dominating negotiations the border issue in ireland. i suppose the single biggest issue in the negotiations that may be the straw that breaks the camel's back but you brought the hardly figures in the u.s. to mation do you think that the virus for gibraltar. softly softly catches barbara with island you have to wing parties i believe between northern and southern islands they don't want a hard border but then you have the e.u. you don't want to make it easy to have this soft border because that will encourage other people to leave so funny enough where we're negotiating with either i believe that it's not in their interest to have an answer. if you take it here it's not too willing parties we're willing to always willing to talk with spain they don't see this as a negotiation with us they see as a negotiation with the u.k. they've got the e.u.'s. aside so i think we're probably be the last piece of the jigsaw to work through and no one's really thought of a solution yet spain doesn't want to solution but i think the eleventh hour there

be a solution and in my mind my prediction is that we would stay roughly the same and we will carry on as usual there won't be a big cliff edge approach on march twenty ninth next year and we continue in our slow but sure growth to prosperity to brawl to property prices making the world up but. slowly and surely move bust steady and sure increase. thank you very much thank you very. so i think there's been on myself the whole. show as goodbye for will see a mixtape still in gibraltar still on the rock next week in the second part of our special series and to brotha will be diving into the history and culture of the territory a meeting some of its finest points writers and historians and closely artistic scene like gibraltar amazing you would not believe that thirty thousand people

could have so much in them i'm go also be exploring the whole gibraltarians of coping with the implications of bricks that we've been hit hard but i would say if you will just like a catch when you grab it like that and you drop it always falls on his feet. right we're all set to start his life. no. it's not going to talk about. just maybe right after the mars explorers what do you

put it there. back. to say last week. ok let's. call them to sophie and tell him so sherrick not said today was that lots to talk about in our program and our guest. right. remember when the political left stood up for free speech and equality for all in public life remember when the mainstream media called for the same the tone and tenor of political discourse appears to be the turning point if you don't agree with the left you face insults and even.

russia and the u.s. confirmed that the first official meeting between donald trump and vladimir putin will take place on july sixteenth. leaders hold a summit in brussels amid stark disagreements on. belgium between fifteen of the world cup as the group stage comes to an end. our broadcast. of this is r t international thomas certainly glad to have you with us. now washington and moscow have announced that the first summit between president putin will be taking place next month in helsinki the head.