co-star in the korea peace project but the aftermath of a recent visit by secretary of state might pump a zero to north korea leaves more questions than answers as kim jong un's government and washington butt heads over what comes first peace or disarmament the world watches along with bated breath to see if the headline stealing singer morse signal singapore summit was a pivotal as the white house made it out to be or if political gravity we deal will be rail lofty dreams of peace artie's treaty as more. secretary of state mike pompei o is pushing peace talks and while he is struggling off north korea's gangster comments he says there are still progress to be made speaking in afghanistan during an unannounced visit to kabul peo said denuclearization will be difficult i give you one quick answer with respect to north quit we still have a long ways to go but the commitment that the north koreans made frankly that chairman kim personally made to president from remains with reinforced i saw some

of the statements came out they were they were mixed you haven't reported on that the mixed statements but maybe maybe you will now. that the statements that were put out chairman kim statement following their discussions. continue to express his desire to complete the denuclearization to which he is so committed following pompei as third trip to pyongyang on sunday north korea hit back and blasted talks saying that they have been regrettable and the talk the u.s. for making unreasonable demands forcing it to abandon its nuclear weapons so we're showing a very important document meanwhile the president claims that the two signed a contract tweeting i have confidence that kim jong un will honor the contract we signed and even more importantly our handshake we agreed to the denuclearization of north korea the president taking it a step further suggesting that china may be responsible for north korea. showing

new has the taishan to move forward on the goal while the white house have previously reported that would meet with the north korean leader the encounter did not happen only met with kim jong number two kim young meanwhile south korea deciding today to temporarily suspend its summertime nationwide civilian defense drills to aid north korea talks and to ensure nuclear diplomacy what the north reporting in new york turn of each other as r.t. . it's of this is the fun part of international diplomacy it's like after all the lights in the spectacular oh they're shaking hands they're signing a contract or whatever it wants to call it and all that now comes like the middle gritty dirks and bolts of it right now actually it's the all right we have to actually put this into implementation which you know maybe we will maybe we won't but i'm happy to see the two sides talking three sides undersides north and south korea to me or you know you are of course i mean the idea of north and south korea and then obviously china you know them coming up with this whole agreement so to me

worrying about what the united states says should be secondary to anybody in that region honestly and i say that as an american it's like i don't think we should be dictating what's going to happen ultimately but it's not all bad i mean obviously i'm i'm not you know these the stand major if you say something that already has ministration that was right then you're a horrible person apparently evil horrible person how dare you how dare i say that neo liberal with dare i want peace because peace is so terrible especially when it you disagree with the person bringing those of the mainstream to what we've been talking as the mainstream media likes to do that they had all of this this idea of it's you put it out it's all bad and one and then they pushed you know isn't the fact that pump a i was spending time in north korea the go shooting any plan whatsoever historic of its very nature yeah i mean isn't the baghdad like and so they're all still talking you know bombs are not flying through the sky no world

and there's a lot of things to look at that are positive south korea said pausing its military transition maser while negotiations go on seems to contradict the idea that the u.s. is is only alienating its allies at this point to me that's a good sign i don't know another aspect of this story. the mainstream media again seems to just sort of over locust china's role in input. and shelley de railing those talks because of the terror group right now trying to hold a lot of cards they could really step in and ultimately help this peace process go but they could also muck up the works as we say here in the u.s. just to sort of poke back at trumpet as an ministration for pocono for poking them and everything else said you know it's some point you can you can give and give and give but sometimes people poke back and it might not it could end up the railing some really good things all because i hope i hope all right sadly though i do have

to go to break right now as we're going to a court watchers don't forget to let us know what you think of a property with go over to facebook and for your full shows that are t.v. dot com coming up we talk the divide between liberal and conservative as we highlight the second part of short stories interview with filmmaker joel mcgovern about his new documentary the other so stay tuned to watch the whole. what self is saying hold on let's move those jobs back to america by imposing sarus to equalise this trade picture and move toward a post china extraction model you know where as private equity extraction well using lever trials china's but extracting wealth using leverage trade shenanigans so this is just the reverse of that as i hear it in some people's voices starts to make a little bit more sense that people don't understand that this guy actually understands

more than people i'm giving him credit for. a trumpy and kind of view it is an understatement to say donald trump is an unconventional and an orthodox political figure to his critics do you have a point when they say trump appears to be harsher with allies then with real or imagined enemies then there's the middle east and iran is trump. so obsessed with terrain. the red team blue elephants and donkeys grand old party squaring off against the big d.n.c. more often than not partisan politics and the u.s. resembles a good old sports rivalry more than actual debate of ideas but our party divisions as immovable as cable news and social media make them out to be which is

a little effort it appears not are so found filmmaker and south of our liberal joe mcgovern who joined johnstown earlier did this latest film the other side spending many days with people he may normally be inclined to lambaste and politically denounce mcgovern came to some interesting realisations with broad implications for how right and left can interact more productively and amicably in the future. it's very rare that you'll find someone who's willing to not defend the team because it's so it's so emotional it's so tied to your identity. it's very hard it was very hard for me to again so eighty interviews hour and a half each interview it's one hundred twenty hours which is like six straight. five and i do enough of my it's like five full days nonstop under twenty hours of listening to things that made my blood boil but through through that exercise

through doing that through that approaching it as a challenge love a challenge i've run five marathons i used to play professional soccer i'm a big give me some challenges and so when i thought about the prospect of having to hold in my anger while listening to concerns kind of a fun thing is how i know so that i could let's go the point of my film and sort of looking for people who are interested in that kind of challenge like we we doesn't need to be every we're always going to have people who will play you know. team is right all the time no matter what but i think there are a lot of people thirsty for some nuance thirsty for some complexity thirsty for some good conversations their super new political party thursday for thursday for maybe an independent you know. yeah i have to agree with him and it's fascinating when you see him come back from the like he said a hundred twenty hour and a half is person almost five days' worth of sitting and listening to these interviews and things like the massive amount of time he spent listening to the other side the

opposite side of his own political beliefs i mean the thing is that we all kind of think the other side opposite side of we other each other and all this is where you know ideology and cults of ideology and identity politics and all that stuff gets much together and you sort of miss the point that's where when you get away from the outrage scene of the of cable news you do get more optimism you talk to people . on a one to one level and you do feel a little more positive about and reasonable about things like third party is or nonpartizan politics and how that stuff can actually work and that it's not cool who in lumia thing something outside of these two options is doable and even good writer i completely agree and i don't i think the you know. i think like we need more of this kind of out of the box style coverage you know that this documentary governs documentary did and other things like we try to do that here on the show too you know and i think we need more outlets and more media outlets doing that

rather than the standard boring right left right left you know tossing aside your generic party labels it's interesting to see what actual policy difference or issues remain that truly divide america's partisans i want to take a listen to what the governor found out. how do you see the needs to the language what is what makes a liberal what makes a conservative in the modern binoculars. the area that most clearly elucidates that for me was the area of welfare and. when i interviewed conservatives it was is very much like you're rewarded for hard work hard work hard work hard work ben carson ben carson ben carson it was a it's always you rewarded for hard work and whereas with a liberal position is we need to we need to help people and it actually occurred to me during during the trip that. there was a guy in the sixty's i'm blanking on his name but he came up with this theory for

human development for optimal human development people need it the right balance of challenge and support too much challenge and you fail too much support and there's no incentive to learn and grow so occurred to me while we were talking welfare that conservatives tend to emphasize the challenge part of that equation hard work personal sacrifice and then carson and liberal stand and emphasize the support part you know what what public programs are we have for for for underprivileged people for economically disadvantaged people but if it's true that human beings need the right balance of challenge and support then it's possible for human beings to have too much support which i've never considered before and any time i would think of of poverty in the us i always thought more support more programs so if it's true that we need the right balance of challenge and support then we need the right balance of conservative and liberal ideas in our welfare system which blew my mind

. whoa. out of balance of political ideas and thoughts taking the best ideas from all the sides and trying to do so all my goodness blows the boy nonsense . i never heard of such a thing and it's sounds like one of those dangerous isms that i'm supposed to be afraid of but i mean not something it's we have this idea that there is one way it's one way or the other way or one way is better everything is in balance that's . why two parties. they're awful as a lot of tough because there's no balance so there's no it's you know there's a lot of opportunities for people to look at things in a different way and like i think that is it's really cool the idea that he has about you know taking that is there too much for. welfare to just look at it one way or the other when really it is so i mean it could be a huge bipartisan issue because the truth is social security every wants or social

security that is a welfare program and so the idea is that if we look at those in different ways that certain things if you work hard but everybody gets certain things and look i mean. there's a great example of something where you could have bipartisan you know work like you said you know challenge people but take care of people right that balance would actually create the perfect kind of well system. and you know when people yell about socialism it's always funny to me too because we actually operate the biggest employer in the world is the u.s. military correct which is completely socialist social on his medicine says less everything because. they're everything is done within one group and the u.s. military is socialism out of spite of you know you don't operate and you know how soldier gets fed and housed remember that's socialism and. and that's what's interesting but i think at the end of the day we're fighting against

a whole lot of stereotypes yeah that's the real problem you know but when you have i think we're in this point now where despite the fact that it was starting to show the two party system was starting to lose its shine kind of in the eighty's even during reagan that you realize something was off this was a guy who was a republican but he also huge immigration reform in a way that said immigrants are important emigrants should be respected all of that and then now we're looking at this for. a different situation where. who is the typical republican and who is the typical democrat and do any of those things actually carry water and i think. what we talked about but what sean and i just talked about is really interesting let's take a look close to political historically it was considered that you know liberals were sort of college educated coming from major you know basically living in big cities whereas conservatives for more. you know high school or less in terms of

education more based in the land either as farmers or small business owners and whatnot did you find anything any commonality of demographics in terms of your research you're pretty accurate about. general generally speaking or you know there's always people who break the mold like i interviewed this is going to jason in berkeley who's a conservative in berkeley i call them the conservatives in berkeley you know so and there are you know there's a college professor that i interview who is conservative two college students who are the president and treasurer of the college republicans while there's college students who happen to be conservative i'm shocked shocked you'd never realize that watching television today i think it's very funny the stereotypes that we have though because they base shift in weird ways over over time you see here and say this idea that conservatives were an agitator they have you know farms and liberals

really excited urban what's very funny is growing up in wisconsin and roll wisconsin mayor we used to joke that we were democrats because we didn't make enough money to be republican it's true because we made it is that republicans are rich and that was the deal it's like i'm a demagogue like i'm a make enough money to be a republican and now look at that shifted that idea is that republicans are an educated you know whatever and don't have a real idea of what's going on. it's interesting that's a really great point that you bring up because i remember that too growing up we all you always assume that the republicans who lived in the cities and drove the fancy cars work down to wall street that whole bit all republican money money money money money and then i think when that kind of event jellicoe and religious grabbed ahold of the party and kind of steered the party along with the tea party steered the party away from you know what they kind of were in the eighty's. even in the seventy's that's where suddenly it was like none other working class blue collar

americans across the country which used to be the democrat stronghold yes you know they used to represent the unions but then when you saw unions and all that go out the window then and then the democrats suddenly with bill clinton in the gang suddenly say no we need to be more republican like then you suddenly have the democrats or the rich elitist types that's fascinating switch and that's why now. are essentially. there's very little difference between them except they both hated each other they both them understand what it's really like in real life they both are completely out of touch with they are out of touch with real life most people aren't running around each other's ankles over this stuff you have a civil conversation but maybe giving voice to some of those less stereotypical party faction less you know encourage more of an actual policy discussion rather than you know. bigger bigger part of our i could make more i couldn't agree more i

mean i'm a very you know we love more than two voices in politics so. i couldn't agree more . with the recent historic announcement that massive curiosity rover on mars discovered complex organic molecules the raw data material materials for all life as we know it mars and its exploration have a put center stage in masses aiming to not let us down on like that one time when. whoops nasa turned the best evidence for life on mars forty years ago it's awkward thankfully our mistake is in the past and the future is in the still on named mars twenty twenty rover will be photographing and scanning a red planet and we'll also be collecting soil samples but how will we retrieve those soil samples without a nuber and the european space agency and their pets rover yes the isa has just awarded a contract to airbus to create a concept for a smaller rover that can pick up or fetch the soil samples left by the mars twenty

twenty rover and take them back to its lander and launch itself back to earth samples and hand i know it sounds like it's asking a lot but isn't that ultimately why we're here to explore and learn and ultimately challenge ourselves to be better than we are and to play fetch with robots on mars. also with robots or lawyers told you or that is our show today remember everyone who lives world we are definitely not told you love them so i tell you all i love you i am tired old winter i don't have a lot of people watching those auction of the great day and that is what. the law.

france reaches the world cup final with a one to zero victory over belgium in st petersburg. life tough though you don't have to. take this. standoff as expected at wednesday's nato summit in brussels have to donald trump accuses european countries of failing to pay their way in. and an alleged victim of nerve gas poisoning in the u.k. were gains consciousness but remains in critical condition. from on these stories and all the latest from the world cup you can head to our team dot com stay with us

now for. a low and welcome to cross talk we're all things considered i'm. a trumpy in kind of view it is an understatement to say donald trump is an unconventional and an orthodox political figure his critics do have a point when they say trump appears to be harsher. than with real or imagined enemies then there's the middle east and iran why is trump so obsessed with. cross talking a trumpy and kind of you i'm joined by my guest peter ford in london he's

a former british ambassador to syria and in washington we have james john he's a former u.s. diplomat and former advisor to u.s. senate republican. leadership and in new york we have richard murphy is a former u.s. career and bastard to syria and currently an adjunct scholar at the middle east institute right gentlemen crossed rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciated james let me go to you first in washington because you've rapidly become the donald trump for me. i know you're a supporter of the president and you have a great foreign policy expertise so i want to see if we can kind of. unpack a few things here for example i give the president with north korea if something good happened there it's very very complicated the parlay is going to be long and hard but i think it took a lot of courage to engage that unlike past administrations. in europe with his european allies doing nato tough love there i think he's doing absolutely the right

things you want to be protected ok if russia is such a terrible threat but want to pay for it ok it's pretty simple but then the wrinkle comes in james i mean the middle east i mean the trump administration isn't braced israel and saudi arabia much more than passage ministrations iran is are are again on target with the rhetoric and the planning and all of that i don't see any rhyme or reason to it all can you is there a silver bullet for you to give me that make me understand it go ahead james. well let me draw an analogy to start with peter people of notice that trump since the day he took office even before has been under siege from people in the intelligence community i think that's one reason why he and the sun the moon and the stars to the pentagon he had to have somebody who was on his side when we put it to the international context that you just raised look we've got clients and i do call them clients of not satellites in europe in the far east like south korea and japan

i think he can afford to kick them around but we come to the middle east and talk about israel and saudi arabia i don't think there's so much our clients as where their client given the kind of influence the israelis and the saudis have in this town it's not so easy to cross them so i think he is proceeding much more carefully there just as he indulges the pentagon i think he's indulging those countries but we're going to have to see now he can turn the corner especially if he can work out something with mr putin on syria with regard to essentially keeping the israelis and the iranians away from each other near the golan heights we might have the beginning of something constructive in that region but that's going to be a very tough road to hoe i think ok it's interesting peter what weigh in on that too because i guess if you do i restate my first question in a much shorter version is that trump is showing flexibility in some areas here in other areas he's seen these seem far more rigid how do you see it i mean

particularly in the region of the middle east in iran go ahead peter. well i think the key to ending trump i think the humility but i think it does help him in america. meaning a. much my fellow i thought nation is. into vention is let's recall you know the america of. the america he tried to keep america. out of the war world war two yeah and in this period the spirit of john quincy adams who advise the gay and the america going abroad in truth the truth lay this tradition to which trump hark back and which appeal thought much i think through middle america and he seems to be consistent in that

and almost all his moves can be interpreted in that spirit whether it pulling back from korea pulling back from nato overreach in europe. the middle east is a little bit different but maybe come back we will come back to that ok richard i mean ok good considering what we just heard from james and peter i think both him and agree that you know and i like how james put it you know indulging the pentagon i mean the pentagon's got a lot of money right now ok but what does that money for in a lot of people would say is for possible or continued military interventions which the president ran against during the campaign and now we have massive arms sales to so do you radiate saudi arabia and israel here and there seems to be a lot of ambiguity about what the u.s. policy is these a v syria how do you one tie all this go ahead richard. i don't think. serious situation is well understood or has been well understood for the per

serving of years we made a mistake there's no other word for it back in two thousand and eleven assuming that the regime was very fragile and about to be blown away. it managed to survive and then it was bolstered by russian supported a rainy and support in the following years but the mistake colored. washington jever tubes that. you had heard about. during obama's. do not get involved in yet another middle east of the war. richard you're absolutely right and that's exactly where i want to go here james they may look at all of all of us are kind of more or less on the same page here but then how do you account for the bellicose attitude towards iran and i think richard's right donald trump knows enough about history is that that he doesn't want to be a president that's brought down by a foreign war that he really doesn't want to get involved in i mean cheri i mean

he's old enough to know what happened to lyndon johnson for example or george bush jr with iraq he doesn't want to have that around his collar but james you know using sanctions to intimidate friends and foes not to import a rainy unoiled i mean i again you know you know and you look at the american allies in the region saudi arabia and israel which would love to see some kind of regime change or instability that's probably their first priority i mean this seems to kind of go counter what trump pianism is all about when it when it goes to foreign policy james. absolutely clearly and i think peter is right absolutely it's america first policy i wouldn't call it isolation ism i would simply call it a sovereigntists policy however there is one big fat exception and that is the middle east we don't have an america first policy in the middle east we have a saudi arabia and israel first policy in the middle east i don't know whether that

represents where mr trump really wants to go or whether it is like i said an analogy to the pentagon whether he's indulging the realities that exist so he can do something else if he can get us out of syria i don't expect us to admit we made a mistake in syria of course we did a tragic horrible mistake but in politics people do admit mistakes if he can slip us out of syria somehow the real question is will he take the bait on what has to be the red line that israel and saudi arabia want regime change in iran and if he goes down that road it's the end of his predecessor presidency he needs to understand that he ends up as george w. bush if he goes down that road may be a lot worse i frankly don't think he's going to do that but he's certainly got a lot of people both foreign and domestic pushing him in that direction and right now he's indulging them the question is whether he will follow through with that i hope he doesn't you know peter one of the things i've noticed that's unique about

this presidency a tweeting a sign is that i think serious people and not just pundits that are partisan one way or another i mean i listen to trump speeches particularly when he goes to the base and there's just a heck of a lot of hyperbole and it's kind of baked in for me ok i'm trying to understand the basis of what he's saying because well most of what he talks about is themself ok that's the trump way but i just have to wonder when you look at his foreign policy views i see that a lot of it is bluster because and i'm kind of agreeing with james here in the bark is really there but there's not always the follow up i mean with syria. we really don't know what's going on there they're not very saying very much because i think there's going to be a withdrawal but i mean could we look at the bluster towards iran is kind of bluster to keep the saudis and the israelis happy go ahead peter. yes i think it's primarily to keep the israelis and the israeli lobby in the us happy because.