why. time after time to my going underground as britain wonders if it's coming home more than it wonders whether the u.k. is leaving the european union coming up on the show on the eve of u.s. president donald trump landing in britain one of his transition team dr jan help by hayes tells us about the future of the so-called special relationship part of blood as nato leaders meets in a new billion dollar brussels h.q. we speak too about her award winning director who edited hundreds of hours of film of nato's enemies to humanize them from the headlines the foreign secretary who spawns of sitting on the fence on the bricks attack a trade respond of fighting discrimination against man dollars or more coming up in

today's going underground but first ahead of next week's donald trump glad to be a putin summit in finland the u.s. president and tourism a joint of the nato leaders in brussels today trump has previously voice doubts about nato currently at war from africa to asia doesn't cover terrorism ok it covers a soviet union which is no longer in existence anyone thinking the u.s. as ambassador to nato has ever called president trump to put him right would also be disappointed by this revelation in the bus three days you know i have not called president trump ever presumably the e-mail because recent nato wars have not arguably gone too well tens of millions have been killed wounded or displaced and if anyone is in any doubt that nato is a political project here is nato as previous leader comparing u.k. labor leader jeremy corbin to vladimir putin to call been saying that nato should give up. go home go away and. almost would buy what

that's the message i received from president putin who was then the prime minister seven years ago so they no doubt that they effed mr corporate he were to be lactate prime minister of the u.k. there would be a big break setter break in the kremlin mind you that form an age old leader lums corbin in with trump not surprising arguably given trump's apparent criticism of article five of the nato treaty on nato alliance mutual protection this was true before he flew to brussels i see nato and i'm going to tell nato you got to see paying your bills the united states. thank you. for anywhere from seventy to ninety percent to protect europe and that's fine of course they kill us a trade they kill a sort of other things to make it impossible to do business in europe yet they come

into they sell their mercedes and b.m.w.'s to us so we have a hundred fifty one billion dollars in trade deficits with the e.u. and on top of that they carelessly well joining me now is one of team trump's advisers john help by hey john thanks for coming back on so we'll donald trump get other nato leaders to stump up the cash for funding of the organization well kate bailey hutchinson who is our ambassador to the e.u. has said that they're starting to but you know to criticize trump as if he's the first one in nine hundred ninety four congressman bernie franks actually had an amendment to get rid of nato when i somehow or finish his term as president he made the comment and he served he's basically the founder of nato he said you know the europeans are just sucking the u.s.

and defense. terry cone under clinton said nato is a relic of history so there are other people who have really been raising it but with donald trump you are going to see people put up they're going to pay you know the president was if they believe donald trump when he says what he's saying but not. why do they believe trump because for all of how trump carries on and what they might not like about his behavior anything he delivers on his promises those are goals those are objectives and those happen ok well that's very arguable and presumably. the there is no imminent leaving of nature but i want to talk about trump's opposition to one war ofter another financed by u.s. taxpayers of yes disproportionately libya syria do you think he's going to continue to be very different to obama when it comes to more foreign wars in

afghanistan even as the dr a terrible bomb but then didn't commit to more troops on the ground i don't think trump had an intention other than a one off he's done to one offs does he want to bring the p.r. our troops home and that's what he would really like to do in every bit of trump having to pay for other countries when he knows there are so many issues that he wants to use the money for. yeah i think that we are very unlikely to join any more wars it's all very well you just said about bringing the troops home do you think all of his advisors are on side about this this is what i try to explain to people trump is consistently inconsistent and he is predictably unpredictable and he warned you that he be that way but people freak out i read that they are

assuming that he's going to just totally give in to putin you know what what is trump concerned about he's concerned about syria he really would like russia to not be supporting syria i did of course will continue to do it as a military base there you're asking what is he going to be concerned about with putin and what is he going to raise i don't know if he is going to raise the quote unquote russian collusion. so far mueller hasn't found anything i am we're twenty we don't know yet but we do know as regards your consistent inconsistency that trump is throwing up more russian diplomats than so many of his previous as so on the one hand he wants to talk about peace and a two hundred at the on the other hand he wants to throw out all of russia's diplomat ok no no that that. that gets into the fake news without the context what happened was there were there were sanctions put on them other countries put

sanctions on trump ended up ticked off with his staff when he realized he threw more russian diplomats out than the other countries that is the crux of that where he didn't oh no we didn't know. ok well the nato does appear to be scaling up in preparations for more economic war with north korea it has been before we've heard and then trump goes along with this peace plan where is that right now how do you think nato leaders are going to treat him given that he's tried to seek peace in korea. you know what. i don't usually make arrogant comments about the u.s. because i don't really feel that way but europe is pretty dependent on us for their defense if they want to slight trump. it will

be at their cost and it won't be at the u.s. cost some would say that the fact that. people like donald tusk and the european union can dare to insult a defense financier of this going to that is that they know there are people around in and around the trumpet ministration who are inside the administration working against the president there's less and less and less about actually i can't wait for paul ryan to go he is a pretend trump or i can't wait for the midterms but i kind of well actually i made within the administration in the bureaucracy as it were when you mentioned the u.s. ambassador to nato she's on the record as saying she's never phoned donald trump is it a good relationship there with the u.s. ambassador to nato you know she was just she was appointed last summer it's not really been a big issue. and she'll be playing a big role this week is going to so i'm sure that they've had strategy meetings around what people don't understand about donald trump because he's such

a man of action and focuses on problem solving he can't be too bothered with things that are going to be a month down the line he wants to know what he has to deal with now how he's going to deal with it and how it's going to have an impact positively do you think given the talk about his visit to london as being all about the hatred for him personally to resume in just after the big resignations was talking about the importance of the trans-pacific partnership to t v p what is donald trump's position on that he signed an executive order against it yes yeah there why do you think europeans are talking about really wanting. talk to him about tb well it's going to fall upon deaf ears i mean he wants bilateral agreements he's not going to agree to that but you know speaking of theresa may how two years she's wasted two years trying to negotiate on this stuff then she's had to resignations how do you expect the forty

people in her cabinet who are all remain ors to craft anything or negotiate anything when it's not what they believe and and trumps people fully aware of the oh it completely and i mean in fairness to tourism a the tourism a lease doesn't want to war with iran the big accusation against drug is that john once full scale war with one of the superpowers of the middle east oh no he does not in fact it is so opposite to that he is putting so much pressure on saudi arabia and a few other countries that they need to step up and take care of their region he said that. as a nuclear power it's important to talk to russia. why do you think colin's ages actively fear that total trump will get on with a lot of the approach and i think part of it is that they view putin as an enemy and how dare you take him out of being an enemy isn't if he's not an enemy who's

going to be an enemy and you know i think it's utterly ridiculous. and why not why is the goal not for quote unquote world peace we're not going to ever have complete peace but really we're better to work with russia as an ally than as an enemy that we constantly have to look over our shoulder at you know what the united states does have a big military budget the biggest military budget in the world want a peace dividend threaten the u.s. military industrial complex to speak of eyes now i read that the e.u. is trying to put their own force together separate from nato good let them do it and then they'll realize how much help we gave how they were able to use their money for great social programs and to take care of their people while we were busy paying for their defense all these years we give an enormous amount of money around the world instead we've got fifty thousand homeless veterans we've got cities that

have been in absolute turmoil the money hasn't been going to our education department. there is so much that we need to do at home there are so many things wrong in america that we haven't paid attention to because the globalists that were running our countries wanted to expand and really by making you dependent on us because we have that money is that a good thing for those other countries to get john how has the fact here and make sure to tune in on saturday to hear a different analysis by former u.s. green party nominee for vice president a job or occur after the break. of blood death reports of yet another british backed saudi bombing of a wedding emerges we speak to the director of a new documentary that gives an inside look into the saudi security forces and from this week's news the housing minister who's hostile to the homeless and the breakfast minister who is paranoid about professors all the civil coming over bob

to have going underground. all the security back an assumption agencies and the ease saying we don't want to be part of britain anymore he got caught helping stopping out aviation companies we mentioned banks stopping out everyone wants to get out because if you don't have the supernatural institutions or cover that he isn't going to be part of that and he's going to be a separate go it alone island under a large rain cloud swimming in marmite washing paying some old hag a crown. in france germany and italy and the rest are saying no we don't want to be a part of it. across europe municipalities are taking their water supply back from private companies who p.m.a. to me to be about this with simple song alone even signed on the biggest else with zero they can find private companies to take over the utilities anybody tell us that opel. allowed for us you guys you've got to be well on the going to go by been

this is us to quote them out. of more you will deliver bill broader locals are ready to stand up for the basic human right of access to water it's about water but it's also over much more than water it's about the hurt and the redistribution of all or was to purchase their debt downwards do you want or will. now if you go through some of the turmoil as donald trump put it on his way to the nato summit today. opec the broadcaster and former liberal democrat the nato summit on today our new foreign secretary you know him very well let's go through that i do know him quite well says here where does new u.k. foreign secretary jeremy hunt stand on middle east issues you might well ask that question because if you look down his history on israel syria yemen he seems to be

on both sides he made some criticism of israel but at the same time said we've got to do business with them partying with our side in twenty years seven parting is a fairly loose term but yes exactly which are all part of syria and then we look at yemen where he's been very critical of the treatment of civilians but said nothing about the fact the u.k. has been arming the very nations is it in any relevant that twenty million face famine at the moment partly because the blockade of a port cynical as you may sound he's a survivor he was never pushed out of that job despite all the pressure on him once again there's a chance that he'll have more of a narrative whether you like that narrative or not he could have more of one than his predecessor boris johnson what to reason may needs at the moment is stability this is a loyalist in an important job i bet if she's breathing a sigh of relief let's go to a new brix it man well that's right the entry continues the mirror reports who is dominic rob breck's that secretary branded feminists obnoxious bigots and said

through bank users aren't languishing in poverty this is the new bricks and secretary to replace david davis he's got a lot of explaining to do here. say that at least one of the issues is that he he seems rather. sympathetic to to food bank users i know those who run food banks and you don't go there for a choice you don't think are well i can't be bothered to go to the shops i want to save a few pennies they live on what comes from food banks i suspect dominic's never being quite in that position they are they do in fairness to have a cash flow problem but i guess but not just one not episode or it's a million why. to morrow if it does come to more of a raise of a willing clude it is about if it doesn't go that well cash flow problems can meet in britain going to food but he is a campaigner for the underprivileged and for those who are discriminated against men he says that men and i quote from the cradle to the grave man are getting

a raw deal that's what he says so he's got some kind of credentials or campaigning perhaps not the ones you would expect now let's go to the housing new housing minister the grandfather inquiry of course going on i'm sure he'll be looking at that this well this is a continuation of the irony afshan huffington post reports new housing minister kid malthouse admitted making homeless people's lives uncomfortable to me and they well are already unstable yes well multiple things have moved all over the world he used to run local authority and not the time he had this campaign to make it really or could to be homeless in his bar or he supported things like getting the police to move the homeless so they could pose down the area he actually said we certainly instituted a policy of making life it sounds counter-intuitive in cruel more uncomfortable that is absolutely right the reason it sounds counter-intuitive and cruel is because it was you know the homelessness is a direct chord in the united kingdom i don't for a moment think that if he implements this great policy across the country he's

going to be regarded as a caring conservative i mean he defended it by saying it directed the homeless to seek support a good housing policy and to be run nationally throughout the country but don't get away from these words he said it sounds counter-intuitive and cruel not my words but it moulton says now sometimes in politics impressions are everything so we start with the man who back in two thousand and eight admitted apparently counter-intuitive and cruel policy towards the homeless not necessarily the best thing to do when you've got the labor party snapping at their heels in the polls let's go to another junior point in the bronx a department of this well he's a new junior minister but a giant zero. old euro skeptic the guardian reports universities deplore mccarthyism as m.p. demands list of tutors lecturing on this is before he's become a junior minister in the ranks of the problem this week this was a story from last year but this gentleman chris heaton harris wrote out to universities asking if he could get

a list of professors who were lecturing about european affairs was wrong with that well i'll tell you what's wrong with that professor kevin featherstone who's head of the european institute at the n.s.c. says and these are his words not mine the letter reflects a past of a mccarthyite nature in other words he said jesting that something very ominous about wanting to see the syllabus which is being taught to these innocent impressionable students who you might think could be persuaded hoodwinked into being pro your opinion of government control all education right down to the last full stop all the faster every element of the syllabus if that's why did you apply for a job as a minister who are bagging it and i tell you the water and generation of this country went along with it or we should go back to as a bit of happy news education written for number ten i think we have some actually that's not what he's at necessarily saying but it is true a lot of the universities do get grants from european union could be bias that it's actually breaks it by it sounds like this gentleman's already done this job he's persuaded you which could mean that theories are made might be calling you next one thing you can see the common theme in all of these appointments is an attempt at

getting loyalty to her cabal there and she's perhaps succeeded in the top jobs but in so doing she's got all these contradictions coming in as well replacing one set of problems with another the showboats together now but let's see how soon people start to start jumping ship out of this one well i haven't received a call yet from number ten i'm sure you will before i need you thank you very much limit. well from examining the post resignation destabilization of the british conservative government to a film that examines terror groups from the nato destabilized middle east part of blood is a new film from bafta award winning director john of america you. go and watch the film in the u.k. and the united states from the thirteenth of july and on demand from the sixteenth of july john of the joins me now thanks so much for coming on it is such a powerful film to say we just begin with the first scene in the documentary so you have a model of them bob a suicide bomber is with his gun and he's trying to

say he's being interviewed basically yes and so what you. what you got here in this opening is a suicide bombers outtakes and it reveals a degree to which he is being manipulated by the man behind the camera and the degree to which he really doesn't have any profound understanding of what it is he's doing he keeps asking questions like i don't really understand what it is you're asking me i don't know and they say you're doing it for this cause on your own he goes on to use shorter words i don't understand and so it really comes across i think and that's what we open the film with we have that as the beginning of the film is it is that it illustrates the extent to which these kids don't really have a coherent set of ideas what they're being involved in is. a cause that they don't really understand they enjoy the camaraderie they enjoyed the dissin pull sense that they're following the rules that somebody else has given them. following best there and some kind of religious destiny that i've been told

to believe they've been recruited into the mainstream narratives here are these are all evil absolutely convinced of what the doing to coin a phrase you you blew up a myth in this film what we're trying to do in the film is trying to show that these people are human beings and some people even say that likable some of the people have watched it and that's not to say that we want to give them all but that it's important we can use that footage to empathize with them to to try and understand where they're coming from understand the psychological appeal of the ideology that working with and i think that does come across in in the foot i don't think anyone could accuse this young film of being zone got a recruiting sergeant for these guys of atrocities so where did you get the footage from well i mean i wish i could take the credit for getting the footage but the executive producers on the show who are two respected middle eastern journalists managed to convince the ministry of interior to release it it wasn't just the al qaeda footage that they got they also got footage of. the security services c.s.i.

type footage which they were shooting as a matter of procedure of bomb aftermath of bomb explosions of shootouts with the. with the terrorists and so on and it was because we had both sets of footage we were able to cut it together like a story and and then so once we had that once we knew we had that we were able to construct a proper narrative cut together like a thriller or a bafta award winning director of able to do that but surely one of the concerns was were you greetings i'm going to propaganda yourself given that you know i mean one of the other obeah they don't have very closely associated with the saudi government but i think my thing is i think even though you may not be yes exactly so i think that one of the consideration we want to absolutely avoid any accusations of propaganda so. one of the reasons we used virtually no commentary for the top of it was that was that all of the great actors or melinda's yeah there is yes we so we used a very small amount of. neuration in between the scenes so the scenes would stand

for themselves you didn't have to try and explain the footage each scene was open to deal with unimpeded on interpreted you know we were trying to put together a point of view we were trying to tell a story albeit that of goes missing from the film is the connections between the saudis sources of funding for the characters as it were in the film i think that i where did all these guns come from that we see a lot of those guns would've come from. the iraq war i think a lot of gun smuggling and fact gun ownership i think in saudi arabia at that time was extremely high anyway people in the deserts had lots of guns themselves one of your characters is a russian girl but then of course another character is talking about how is the experience was in afghanistan and we know the british and american governments funded back to the mujahideen that would become yes there's no mention of that a little bit no because obviously what we're trying to do is tell a story about what was going on here between two thousand and three and two

thousand and six and we did the last sequence is two thousand and one of the videos because hundreds of hours of videos and no interrogations where they said. what about when so and so was fighting of course with the british back money there was no i mean literally if there was that was like a lot of effort is no one arguable hero does go by prince mohammed bin nayef who just act in july by mahmoud bin selman just tell me a little bit about his appearance and of course then the devastating footage which long long we've talked about but you use it there in the end about the rick suicide bomber against him so he'd been he'd been very successful as minister of security within the ministry of interior. and one of the things that it was to his credit was the way in which it cleaned up the way in which the prisons have worked in saudi arabia and just a human rights groups across the world are against him and of written well know he was one of the i think human rights groups who were against his predecessors he was

one of the most important people at reforming the prison system within saudi arabia so he'd made that particular development and then he had been very close in being trained by british police here say that he kind of learnt those practices and then he was the person who was in charge of running the campaign against the against al qaida and and very successful he was too and we see that unfolding within that albeit we saw al qaeda move across the whole of the middle east around the time these interviews are being. done and i suppose i mean we were in iraq with. funded groups in syria which were the group's. bodsworth it was a bloody battle you know and they they worked hard with the security services to track it down and it's not dissimilar to the kind of the counterinsurgency operation that happened all over the middle east and in places like chechnya and so on as well so you know i think one of the challenges you have with fighting isis and al qaida is that they want to die and that the normal rules of warfare become

problematic when they when you when you have when you when you're fighting in a opposition who don't obey any rules of warfare it's very difficult and that comes across in the film i think it over he obviously. kills far more people does it any of these al qaeda terrorists in general yes i mean i think a lot of people have been killed in all kinds of fighting across the middle east including in syria with russian jets you know so all kinds of. it is very difficult to fight these forces as we're finding out in syria and under way for found out in all of these wars that have taken place and all the middle east there are no simple easy solutions and i think one of the things that film's trying to do is to try and show that it's not simply a matter of killing the terrorists you've got to defeat the idea you've got to understand the psychology of the terrorists why it is that they want to cling on to these dissents of religious destinated they have what is it is that appeals to them about. these fundamentalist simplistic ideas following these kind of distorted

versions of islam that being. proposed by the preachers for the now good thank you and you can go and see the film in the u.k. and u.s. cinemas from the thirtieth of july and the demand for the sixteenth of july before we go on the thirtieth of june going underground broadcast a special episode with pulitzer prize winning reporter seymour hersh the episode in good navigation that the turkish government along with saudi arabia was supplying the basic chemicals for sarin to the terror group al nasra this was the turkish embassies response to the allegations about turkey by seymour hersh in the last segment of the program entitled going underground are completely unfounded contrary to what has been said turkey is a faithful and liable member of the chemical weapons convention raging and any type of nerve agent or similar i mean mission that's a paper by international law is strictly not stored or used by the touching on forces turkey is a key stakeholder in the fight against terrorism has long been at the forefront of efforts to counter terrorist organizations including p k k k c k p y a y p g di ash

al-qaeda and their affiliates al nusra is a terrorist organization and turkey has been actively working with its partners to eliminate elements from syria through international mechanisms such as the geneva understand of processes is bewildering how a country that is liberated around four thousand kilometer square in the north of syria from terrorist operations euphrates and olive branch can be accused of supporting terrorist organizations so that if the job. we'll be back on saturday with twenty six team usa vice presidential candidate good job of iraq to talk about all trump's visit to britain children people talk about social media we'll see you on saturday two hundred twenty nine years to the day the people of paris stormed the best deal last in nine hundred seventy two about the significance of the french revolution chairman mao's first foreign minister join line would reportedly infamously say it was too early to.

cities across croatia erupted in celebration as the national team reaches their first ever world cup final after defeating england. bridges nato members to ramp up their military spending at a summit in brussels. and ahead of her meeting with trump on friday britain's prime minister friesen made pledges to boost support for nato and send hundreds more troops to afghanistan. by broadcasting live direct from our studios in moscow this is our thomas certainly glad to have you with us. has reached the fee for.