i. cities across croatia erupted in a celebration as the national team reaches their first ever world cup final after the. urges nato members to ramp up their military spending at a summit in brussels. and ahead of her meeting with trump on friday britain's prime minister theresa may pledge to boost support for nato hundreds more troops to afghanistan. played a song those stories of course you can head over to our dot com stay with us now for.

a low in welcome to cross talk we're all things considered i'm. a trumpy in kind of view it is an understatement to say donald trump is an unconventional and an orthodox political figure his critics do have a point when they say trump appears to be harsher. than with real or imagined enemies then there's the middle east and iran why is trump so obsessed with. cross talking a trump in kind of you i'm joined by my guest peter ford in london he's a former british ambassador to syria. in washington we have james jaharis he's a former u.s. diplomat and former advisor to u.s. senate republican leadership. and in new york we have richard murphy is

a former u.s. career and bastard to syria and currently an adjunct scholar at the middle east institute right gentlemen crossed rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want i always appreciate james let me go to you first in washington because you've rapidly become the donald trump sure for me you i know you're a supporter of the president and you have a great foreign policy expertise so i want to see if we can kind of. unpack a few things here for example i give the president with north korea if something good happened there it's very very complicated the parlay is going to be long and hard but i think it takes a lot of courage to engage that unlike past administrations. in europe with his european allies doing nato tough love there i think he's doing absolutely the right things you want to be protected ok if russia is such a terrible threat but want to pay for it ok it's pretty simple but then the wrinkle

comes in james i mean the middle east i mean the trump administration isn't braced israel and saudi arabia much more than passage ministrations iran is are are again on target with the rhetoric in the planning and all of that i don't see any rhyme or reason to it all can you is there a silver bullet for you to give me to make me understand it go ahead james well let me draw an analogy to start with people of those us that trump since the day he took office even before he has been under siege from people in the intelligence community i think that's one reason why he and the sun the moon and the stars to the pentagon he had to have somebody who was on his side when we put it to the international context that you just raised look we've got clients and i do call them clients of not satellites in europe in the far east like south korea and japan i think he can afford to kick them around but when we come to the middle east and talk about israel and saudi arabia i don't think there's so much our client. where

their client given the kind of influence the israelis and the saudis have in this town it's not so easy to cross them so i think he is proceeding much more carefully there just as he indulges the pentagon i think he's indulging those countries but we're going to have to see now he can turn the corner especially if he can work out something with mr putin on syria with regard to essentially keeping the israelis and the iranians away from each other near the golan heights we might have the beginning of something constructive in that region but that's going to be a very tough road to hoe i think ok it's interesting peter what weigh in on that too because i guess if you do i restate my first question in a much shorter version is that trump is showing flexibility in some areas here but other areas he's seen these seem far more rigid how do you see it i mean particularly in the region of the middle east in iran go ahead peter. well i think the key on both bending the trump on i think this with some humility but i think it

does help him in america first. and foremost meaning. to use the term i don't like much my fellow i thought nation is the opposite interventionist let's recall you know the america first the america committee tried to keep america out of the war world war two and the things the spirit of john quincy adams who advised again america going abroad in truth the truth lay this tradition to which trump hark back and which people thought much i think through middle america and he seems to be consistent in that and almost all his moves can be interpreted in that spirit whether it's pulling back from career. pulling back from nato overreach in

europe. the middle east is a little bit different but we maybe come back we will come back to that ok richard i mean considering what we just heard from james and peter i think both of them would agree that you know and i like how james put it you know indulging the pentagon i mean the pentagon's got a lot of money right now ok but what does that money for in a lot of people that say it is for possible or continued military interventions which the president ran against during the campaign and now we have massive arms sales to. saudi arabia and israel here and there seems to be a lot of ambiguity about what the u.s. policy is these a v syria how do you one tie all this go ahead richard. i don't think. serious situation is well understood or has been well understood for the per serving of years we made a mistake there's no other word for it back in two thousand and eleven assuming

that. the regime was very fragile and about to be blown away. it managed to survive and then that was bolstered by russian support and a rainy and support in the following years but the color of. washington jever tubes that. you had heard about during obama's time do not get involved in yet another middle east of the war. richard you're absolutely right and that's exactly where i want to go here james they ok all of all of us are kind of more or less on the same page here but then how do you account for the bellicose attitude towards iran and i think richard's right donald trump knows enough about history is that that he doesn't want to be a president that's brought down by a foreign war but he really doesn't want to get involved in i mean cheri i mean he's old enough to know what happened to lyndon johnson for example or. george bush

jr with a rock he doesn't want to have that around his collar but james you know using sanctions to intimidate friends and foes not to import a rainy unoiled i mean again you know you know and you look at the american allies in the region saudi arabia and israel which would love to see some kind of regime change or instability that's probably their first priority i mean this seems the kind of go counter what trump pianism is all about when it comes when it goes to foreign policy james. absolutely clearly and i think peter is right absolutely it's in america first policy i wouldn't call it isolation ism i would simply call it a sovereigntists policy however there is one big fat exception and that is the middle east we don't have an america first policy in the middle east we have a saudi arabia and israel first policy in the middle east i don't know whether that represents where mr trump really wants to go or whether it is like i said an analogy to the pentagon whether he's indulging the realities that exist so he can

do something else if he can get us out of syria i don't expect us to admit we made a mistake in syria of course we did a tragic horrible mistake but in politics people don't admit mistakes if he can slip us out of syria somehow the real question is will he take the bait on what has to be the red line that israel and saudi arabia want regime change in iran and if he goes down that road it's the end of his predecessor presidency he needs to understand that he ends up as george w. bush if he goes down that road may be a lot worse i frankly don't think he's going to do that but he's certainly got a lot of people both foreign and domestic pushing him in that direction and right now he's indulging them the question is whether he will follow through with that i hope he doesn't you know peter one of the things i've noticed that's unique about this presidency. tweeting a sign is that i think serious people and not just pundits that are partisan one

way or another i mean i listen to trump speeches particularly when he goes to the base and there's just a heck of a lot of hyperbole and it's kind of baked in for me ok i'm trying to understand the basis of what he's saying because well most of what he talks about is themself ok that's the trump way but i just have to wonder when you look at his foreign policy views i see that a lot of it is bluster because and i'm kind of agreeing with james here in the bark is really there but there's not always the follow up i mean with syria. we really don't know what's going on there they're not very saying very much because i think there's going to be a withdrawal but i mean could we look at the bluster towards iran is kind of bluster to keep the saudis and the israelis happy go ahead peter. yes i think it's primarily to keep the lead and the israeli lobby in the us happy because look at it this way trump has already got a lot of enemies back home that's what you're new theat. he's got the

securities they on his back he got everybody on his back he cannot afford all of the israel lobby on his back so this combined with the fact that he has family links with israel push to thim in the direction of being an iran hawk. now this is scary and he gets dragged down that path we may be in for a very bumpy ride indeed. but i not sure that his heart is in it. opportunistic and dictated by his standing domestically in the u.s. he can't have too many enemies at the same time rich or reflective i think that's quite fascinating because i'm really you know you could have all the bluster you want against iran but it does keep the israelis and the saudis happy and it's one it's one issue he doesn't really want to deal with right now because of the litany

of trade issues nato north korea meeting with putin it's on the back burner for him policy wise not rhetorical what do you think richard. if it's not on the back burner peter he's he's got to keep his eye on that situation in the southwest part of syria where the heat is high the rain ians have been maneuvering around too near to the golan heights for israeli comfort and that that could trigger a fight in a broader conflict which none of us need so richard who would be six razor which country would be that which country would be the trigger who is the proactive it character you're referring to well. he's a real has been striking using air power against what it is it is

raining in targets in israel. and i'm seriously in syria that's where it could go bad but ok ok you're right in syria gentlemen i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break it's a hard break i have to go there after a short break we'll continue our discussion on trump's foreign policy stay with our . you know world of big partisan movies lot and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smart we need to stop slamming the door on the bath and shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks. across europe municipalities are

taking their water supply back from private companies to me this is the simple song alone even some company else well they invite a private companies to take over the utilities anybody tell us that all posts allowed so miss you guys who got booked but it will end up going to go buy been this is us to quote them out. for you and i don't believe the left bill brought up locals are ready to stand up for the basic human right the access to water it's about water but it's also over much more than water it's about the hurt and the redistribution of all as to us on their date downwards we want to. welcome back across the uk where all things are considered i'm peter and we're

discussing transform policy. ok james let me go back to you in washington right before i went to the right richard pointed out a possible flashpoint a flashpoint in syria the iranians and the go and we have to remind our viewers that go on hikes is illegally occupied by israel and it's not israeli territory ok it's actually part of syria and the international community recognizes that but i'm glad that richard brought that up james i mean again you know if you look at kind of the proactive and i don't want to use the word aggressive but proactive stance that trump has taken on so many positions around the globe again we go back to the middle east where he seems to be reactive i mean is israel determining what the united states might and might not do in the region syria is a very good example go ahead. well i think richard is right to point out southwest

syria as the real most important dangerous flashpoint here and that's where really comes down to mr trump and mr putin can they work out something that defuses that in the abbey in the aftermath of the american failure and syria that really has been a failure that we're not really in a position to broker any kind of deescalation and that area hopefully the russians can you know that you know this points to a serious paradox in american policy we have these so-called neo conservatives here who are the most militant interventionist especially in the middle east they're also the most militant li anti russian and are just in a complete meltdown now over the prospect of this summit coming up what's ought of course is that israel and mr netanyahu have a very good relationship with russia and mr putin so there i think there are things that can be done on the ground there for a mosque that the people here just are getting the belt out of the picture that's a really good point let me go to peter on that i mean this is a it's widely speculated i know that the nato allies are terrified of meeting with

putin because he might make a deal over their heads ok all right fine that's a topic for another day but i mean the issue of syria is very interesting and and what cheney says i think makes a lot of sense of something could be an arrangement let's put it that way to deal with syria but why peter would let me or putin trust donald trump after everything that has been said and done i mean ash carter remember when there was a cease fire agreement everybody was on board and all this all we accidentally attacked the syrian army opes we didn't mean it wow i mean that didn't cut any ice with me or anyone else that i know so peter even if some kind of arrangement could be made to deescalate in syria could the russians trust the americans to come through and we have to remember that trump is under a lot of enormous pressure at home because even talking to vladimir putin in the

eyes of the neoconservatives is treason go ahead peter. well i think the americans don't have much to negotiate with in syria. the boots on the ground very limited in numbers effectively they're just. the pro u.s. forces in the south are in the process of being rolled up that only leaves the north the ad lib area to dominate it in turn to the external support by turkey not be us and i think we're all thor in danger of looking at the wrong flashpoint not the go around the golan the approaching towards the goal and i believe is a done deal read the smoke signals coming or not coming out to jerusalem you can see that the israelis will acquiesce in a return to the status quo ante and the iranians will not move up close to the goal

and there's no reason why they should they should want it to. be the real potential flashpoint is the return to a duma type situation and remember just back in april we came close to world war three you know we were talking in those terms and the same scenario could be reproduced at any moment but most likely it will be reproduced when the moment comes for the feature of lip which to thumb down the track but perfectly for theobald the same conditions will be produced and i believe there will be another fake chemical attack which will trigger a real really dangerous crisis you know all that when we go to richard and people that do that are actually desperate that's when people that do that kind of thing they're on the losing side that's why they do it i want to stay with it. the trump

putin meeting and let's talk about syria is there is there a possible in your mind where some kind of rough outline could be agreed to where everybody could be seen as the winner without getting giving away anything i don't know if that's possible here but i think that that's something that trump would like to say look we're quickly resolving the issue in syria he likes to win that's how he'll look at it and of course that would be a segue because somehow start starting the russia u.s. bilateral relationship again because it pretty much been deep sixed what do you think about that richard well i think. interests are parallel to american in the sense that he doesn't want to go really. quick sounds like a very very shy agree. so you have something to work with the really world curtiz the rain ians. there is no unquestionably strong

almost for the call of color for level element and that sees its mission is spreading with already its influence over syria lebanon yemen to some extent and that i don't know what who. can agree on ok well james i mean this is a guy ongoing argument i've had with richard i mean again if that fanatical element and to around i mean there are only fueled by foreign policy mistakes by the former colonial powers in the united states they're the ones that help spread real or imagined iranian influence throughout the region i mean look for example the horrendous shameful. activity that's happening in yemen and the whole world watches this it's a disgrace to humanity and that's all blamed on

a rant more rand wasn't there until it all started happening but timelines don't matter to these people go ahead james. yeah i guess i would disagree a bit with richard although i defer to his superior knowledge in this area it just seems to me that in a world and islamic world it's thirteen percent shiite that any fanaticism from tehran would be a self correcting problem that they simply don't have that throw weight to really have that kind of dominance in the region as far as mr trump and mr putin go i think mr putin is well aware that donald trump does not control the apparatus of his own government whereas putin is master of his house trump really is not and he has to proceed much more carefully and can he give orders that he knows will be obeyed and lastly as far as the allies go i think the one who has the most to fear is theresa may here's somebody who's going to dissolving out from under her we've got their fingerprints on not only on the white helmets and the tackle false flag like like peter was referring to the scriptural thing and also the steel dossier

let's not forget that i hope mr putin hands mr trump a real dossier about what they've been overt up to over there and the united kingdom to try to subvert american interests but you know peter one of the things i've done in number of programs on this but you know i've had experts on talking about the interests of this country versus the interests of this one in geopolitics and sometimes it just gets down to trump having a memory i remember how you supported hillary clinton i remember the donna ca i remember him isaacson book meddling in the election not the russians you know it's really and then those ukrainian oligarchy that gave money to the clinton foundation i mean you could say that's a layer that that's how donald trump sees fulcrum biology that you get when he slighted he's got it written down in a back of an envelope check that person's done that person's done i'm to i'm i'm making light of this a little bit but obviously there's personal issues that. views the world here go ahead peter. young i think two keys to understanding trump one is the

so called isolationism ornately the. other is. not always agree dealing. and depart from the or the orthodox washington and. then constant conflict like a goalie who is pinned down by the washington consensus by the myriad little advisers around him the only time he's really free are in the middle of the night three am when he can tweet and nobody can stop him. when he's in a thumb it when he's going to come in again one on one question when they keep advisors out to the chamber these are the times when he can be donald i think donald should be more donald if anything in it you know richard it's already been brought up in this program and i think it's an important question is that you know

when. the nato confound there and then when he meets with putin here i mean nato is doesn't like the public browbeating that trump is given them over spending this spending issues been on the table for a long time it's nothing really new and with that with the trump. putin meeting i mean when they look at it again i want to go back to the rhetorical see this more words because you know they're going to think that you know this summit will pass go back to work they'll be at the summit with putin and then. trump goes back on the campaign trail goes into his rallies i mean is it just more for photo ops and just bluster because i can't see that he has really the power to make a deal with putin for example. well let's say this season he's shown he has two interests in the middle east the. so-called peace process doing something to get

the biggest deal in history between israelis and palestinians and then the price of oil so those those two issues do capture his attention what where he's going he has unfortunately weakened confidence in american leadership in the middle east problem. by withdrawing from the agreement the jury c.p.u. agreed agreed that he's playing with the weaker hand the nuclear agreement with iran you know ok one thing is very and i'm glad i'm and we're going to wrap it up here i'm glad that richard brought up oil prices the way it's going gentlemen donald trump trying to lower oil prices isn't actually helping them to increase and the saudis for how he treats them so well the saudis have not returned the favor to try to equalize the price we'll see where this is going to go here that's all the time we have gentlemen many thanks to my guests and watched in new york and in

london and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at r.t.c. a next time and remember. you will be in the to show not just us. but i mean. i mean let us not.

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