taliban. especially when it comes to the view about women's political and social engagement because i remember during the taliban i was living in a kind of sun i remember how brutal their policies were to worse woman as women were deprived of their basic rights of education working out all kinds of basic rights. now i'm hearing different views perhaps taliban are divided when it comes to their view and perspective about women in gauge minter participation in social and political life. right now that woman still are the main target of taleban political kind of perspective because when they talk about peace and negotiation one of their condition is woman islamic rights and their interpretation of islamic writer for money is so different from the ones who are actually islamic clerks because they don't want women to go to school the leadership when you talk to the soldiers to the food soldiers their perspective is

different so what i think is that we need an international do as i said before to make sure that women on in the negotiation table their part of the process because in most of the negotiation and the talks women are not you clear with it so that's a kind of concern that if the beginning there is no woman included and of course that's that's what that's what it that's a valid concern hopefully eventually they will come to this understanding that the women of afghanistan have now come back a floor that they will not be able to reverse if interesting to me that both the americans and to some extent the afghan leadership referred to what is happening in afghanistan right now as the forty year crisis which would cover not only the american intervention there but obviously decide as well from your perspective do you those great power for raising to your country have anything in common.

as somebody who lived in afghanistan all my life there is one difference the difference right now with. when the soviet invaded afghanistan. and supported the force of the government against them which i had in a lot of people ended all afghanistan were supporting what they were welcoming and supporting and they were giving the space for. their children who were fighting against the government. supported by soviet union but when it comes to the taleban because people of afghanistan have experienced the taleban and kind of have the decent smell of what they want in this country they don't have a lot of local and popular support at the local community and so therefore in many local communities people would like to see the international forces as a signal is a must for tol'able not to come to those villages i think that's the difference if

i could summarize it but i think one of the perhaps most obvious things in common that at least i see in both the how the soviets and the americans in gauging your country is that both try to remake afghanistan in their own image both put a lot of emphasis on the women's rights because that was also a very very major issue for the saudi if they believe in the emancipation of women they actually encourage the women's participation in the labor force and if i'm not mistaken the nine hundred eighty s. actually said be historic record in afghanistan for women in the labor force and i would also argue both have failed in that regard is that how you see it that's true to some extent the truth is that. there are some problems woman of afghanistan that are facing that has got to loot in our culture and tradition and it's very difficult to change culture and tradition overnight we need time we need commitment we. is

a political commitment of all is essential to change of perspective there are some problems that are made by mother these are human made problems for women especially for instance when women are deprived of going to school. due to the war during the turn of underwood had to stay whole that's a program that is created by the politicians by the government and definitely we need somehow international support for to serve problems to get to the pick but i. meant here would be the changes that the women of afghanistan see today. just. as they should have a suspicion that comes from this society did come to the grassroots level if you go to the communities right now people especially women would like to see their daughters to go to school they would like to you know that the changes are from the grassroots level and i think that to live versus to take it back to the taliban

preview it is not possible because here this woman people of color some want to see the chain medical care i'm sorry for jumping in but i want to take an issue with what you just sad that it's not possible to refer to traverse that changes because that's obviously how we solve approach that issue back in the night and eighty's they believe that those changes were natural it was a natural course of history but then. came in and they started undermining many of those efforts by investing heavily in the fundamentalists prefer gand and it's well documented right now that. there was a concerted american effort to present people who send their daughters to school who allow their women to work as infidels don't you think that some of those challenges that we are facing right now are in part to rooted in that effort to preserve and women's rights as alley and to the afghan society is absolutely to mean a lot. of these progress are very fragile. international community. will

see this for how they can ensure community was to meet these changes i'm sure if the international community try to exit from afghanistan for instance with. an assurance. that the some of these changes will be safeguarded this to history will repeat itself and then we will perhaps face some of those. same situation that we face after the soviet. withdrawal from afghanistan but in the meantime let me also make it clear that after the soviets were told from afghanistan there was a gap a gap of civil war and a gap of tell about it that basically undermined old to prove to us that what people have got to engender. a particular woman of afghanistan her. everything basically kind of started to scratch while the woman movement in

afghanistan has a very long history of the woman participation in social and political life has a very long history of doing this would be it also we had a lot of schools there is another small differences but by then many of these progresses were limited to the cities and now money of these programs limit is limited to the security in the places which did the security and safety you can see these prove this what i meant by american efforts to undermine women's rights in afghanistan was they have investment in the mujahideen group and i think it is fair to say that they specifically sought back in the eighty's to weaponize that culture of aggressive masculinity and intolerance towards education especially education among the girls now that was kept under certain restrictions while the soviet troops were still in big cities as you point. but once they was

joe i think the taliban took over very quickly and from what i understand from your biography you were already a young strong educated woman at a time what was it like for you to see all those gains reversed almost not overnight but i assume over a matter of a couple of months absolutely it was not a nice moment to see a lot of. young women in afghanistan young girls are deprived of their basic basic rights like their rights to get out of your home and go to see a doctor it was something that money hundreds of women in afghanistan actually hundreds of thousands of women experience if you're good to see a doctor you had to be accompanied by a male company and from your family now can you imagine those women who were either not married or had no male relatives in their families they never managed to go to see a doctor so it's true the other two days that they're doing the mojahedin time when they were turned in were fighting against the soviets backed regime in kabul

a lot of money came was i was invested for maternity group from the western countries and the united states without as you rightly said without putting some benchmarks in terms of human rights and women's rights situation as a result the money was spent to support groups by some of the intelligence of the neighboring country on one hand and the other hand this money partly was used also to support other extremism. in the region which literally eventually they came to afghanistan and afghanistan as a country that has a history of civilization was eventually used by different networks of radical groups that you know women were the main page of their policies now i want to ask you something perhaps personnel because we all assume that liberties are something that once you once you try them you start taking them for granted why do you. the

afghan society's all those fathers and has burns who have been sending their daughters to school ho ho ho saw that wives going to work why do you think they all turned their back on that was what was the sub part of it the sad part of his life during taleban was that. the leader of afghanistan always guard their wifes their sisters as a value it. kind of human being can get from it is that's historically like that that's why women and men in afghanistan are so protective towards it though the women of the family but unfortunately due to the title but not only that you know physically of other structures were kind of broken and the government was physically you know not a strong government but brutal government but also so shitty our social values were damaged item number for instance going in the streets of kabul when a woman was beaten up by taliban her husband denied that it just to be said to save

himself so that not only this one conflict actually damaged our structures and infrastructures but it unfortunately damaged our values too well madam koofi we have to take a very short break now but we will be back in just a few moments stay tuned. for. so you. like that is your last yes does. she doesn't it with the people most of us are not what i mean.

i can make it. really a lot to get me from him he can see that you know if you buy if. you're in the form of the media. i'm with you more with the very one with and i'm what i'm most often given many blows up in the film i was in theme of i was at the field. when the whole make us manufacture consent instinctive public wealth. when the running classes project themselves. with the fine and merry go round live we don't want.

to ignore middle of the room sick. welcome back to worlds apart with piracy a koofi

a member of the afghan parliament and prominent women's rights activist madam coffey just before the break we were discussing why the gains in women's rights in afghanistan dissipated so quickly once the taliban took over and i personally believe that's because this issue has long been presented as something before and there is a trying to impose on the afghan society first it was the soviets later it was the westerners and we can now see some effort that particularly in the west to present the women's issues in afghanistan as part of the meat's you movement do you think that's actually helpful. to be honest there are a lot of. changes and the sense most taleban since two thousand and one changing the perspectives that initially us money people in afghanistan would be guard. the support for women as

a foreign agenda as an urgent that the worst and the u.s. and the national community is in favor because women freedom came along with the fall of ton of fun. together with this abuse situation americans and they do come to afghanistan so many people enough been so good regard. initially opposed to doesn't one with the good woman movement progress us part. the american or the west kind of intervention and support but not all of these things are changing the perspective is changing i think a lot of people will regard this as a. well i guess my problem with the mitsu movement and globalizing it to such extent is that it is primarily about taking on the male patriarchy reach may be the case for western countries but i think it's a rather limiting perspective for the rest of the world and particularly for afghanistan where as you articulated it's not just an issue of pak patriarchy it's

also a very complex historic political geopolitical even it can and they cannot make a sure because you may educate the girls but at the current moment the afghan economy doesn't have enough jobs to sustain that real empowerment don't you think that perhaps the western perspective on how women are treated in afghanistan is a little bit. too narrow many of these campaigns that you mentioned the need to which is part of this global climate isn't come in. is very limited to the cities or even among to see this very limited to. a few individuals so the global change about a woman a woman situation actually does not impact the woman of afghanistan's life what i'm trying to say is. right now the people of afghanistan perspective changed their view is in change for instance. when i went to school you know i faced a lot of challenges as a go to go to school but now from the same community that i come from

a lot of men come to be asking put in a school for girls because the see that there is a woman who is educated she can do something now they want. an example i think that's why i'm kind of believing that the perspective of people are changing and that's why i think things will not reverse back to the taliban period because during taliban. the social media the media as a whole people will not see the progress and they have not experienced the liberty to the extent that they have experienced now you know the use of media social media etc people now experience that i think yes when it comes to the global kind of standard talk woman rights in afghanistan we are nowhere in the global we still have a long way to go but when it comes to the situation on the ground the fact that there is a lot of a positive view about woman. i just give you an example we have according to our constitution we have a quota for women political participation now we do have some woman who have been

elected on the seat without you know the coup that means that the perspective of the local community is in change in support of women but of course as i said before you need a lot of resources a lot of political commitments and you know it cannot be changed overnight now going back to that issue of talking to the taliban the question is how to do it because both the americans and the westerners more generally have tried different approaches back in two thousand and one george w. bush used ultimatums which resulted in a war on the other hand there were times when westerners sort of caved in to the taliban's demands for example back in ninety seven when the female attorney for the u.n. high commissioner for refugees was forced to talk from behind a curtain so they wouldn't see her face which led to even more outrageous demands later on what do you think is the optimal way of engaging this group without losing

the chance for reconciliation but also without considering everything in the process absolutely it's a very important question because security and justice are the two process and it will only succeed if the two process is giving it quite a weight and equal importance if you don't give importance to justice to the people voice to the social participation. if the end habitants of a country in a process just focusing on security which is a priority for us while not through security. as we want it so justice and security must go as a. process and we need to have inclusion of woman at the same taliban that you give example of talking to women from behind a curtain you know i would be surprised to see their daughters studying and western capitals in the best universities so it's not. it's not that that they are really really believing in what they do it's all politics and in politics you can always

be flexible and i hope the taliban will be flexible in terms of their approach for women participation and i think women should be given a voice from did at the beginning they have to be part of the process because there is this belief among our leaders that you know once everything is settled then we will include women which is a by your own belief you need to include women because as as you rightly say it did the mindset to fall victims off of all these conflicts of forty one so i think that gives me some hope with that i think we now have a unique geo political moment when most of the regional players the united states russia china pakistan supported the idea of the talks between the government and the taliban the rather than trying to undermine each other convert me so it really looks like foreign there is at least are tired of this perpetual conflict what about the people within the country have they had and not of this war absolutely

you know there was a ceasefire announced. by the government. festival three days. you wouldn't believe it there was clarity about you know what the process would be there was no consultation in the process with civil society and women's. groups etc but you wouldn't believe it the taliban will come with. some of these. would come to the cities to meet the order of the city people to go to the site places so that is an indication of how turn. our people is for peace but in the meantime let's also keep in mind that as i indicated before we want to have a peace with justice like just a peace and secure country we had to do it in taleban during taliban afghanistan was absolutely a peaceful come to you but there was no life there was no freedoms or freedom of

speech freedom of movement and no rights for women so yes we won both we want peace but also we want freedom as a human being now your own personal story i think is a very hard braking and inspiring at the same time when you were born your mother left you all at the century to die because she wanted to have a son but then thankfully she changed her mind and the from what i understand she began your biggest champion in life is that an apt metaphor for how afghanistan is treating its daughters. all good this perspective is now changing in some of the families because if you have a daughter your daughter can go to school and she will have an income for the family i have two daughters which i'm very proud of them. but this perspective is changing in some of the families but still. afghanistan there are a lot of people a lot of of course sort of the women who want to have

a son and the reason for a woman primarily is because women suffered a lot as my mother always gave me this example she suffered as a woman a lot in her life she has faced a lot of discrimination and injustice she didn't want another girl to face as much challenges and problems as she faced and therefore she wanted to have a boy not because she didn't love us a daughter but. yes she didn't want another woman in this world to suffer as much as she suffered i think that my mother perspective was rather unique because you know she had brother from another mother from my stepmother and my mother also wanted to have a son but this perspective still exists in the us where people want to have son because they believed the sound i didn t. hold out of the family. for the family they can present a family also when it comes to the property right to have more rights to access property these are all these are people who want to have sons but in the cities in

the urban areas the perspective is changing very happy about it well and some of those social changes our ready it reflected in the politics as you noted earlier in some localities there are more men than the women registered to run in the next fall's elections i wonder you if you have already made up your mind whether you're going to be competing for the parliamentary seat again to parliamentary elections definitely i have just said myself and i hope that the. last time i was elected on a general seat and i'm hoping that this time again. the same level of support and trust from my people that i get elected not on a quota but on agendas he then i hope that more women will also from the people from the provinces will get more gender seats that we have more women participation in parliament and i hope that eventually woman will be in the leadership of the parliament why not to have a woman as a speaker of the parliament in the next. parliament or maybe the president of

afghanistan i know that the elections are coming up next year anyway madam coffey we have to leave it here thank you very much for being with us today and best of luck in your very difficult job and courage our viewers to keep this conversation going in our social media pages and hope to see you again same place same time here on the part.

you watch the futurama or the jetsons they are traveling inside troops it's pretty normal work this thing have formed from concepts like that there were several in implementations that were planned in the ninety's in the sixty's. so. when he holds idea there and he says he was too busy to just have some space if you want someone else to pick it up. by name or do good is an outstanding person because he took on the most powerful agency in this county for you. the state if you look at it from a book or analogy. mark was the day that when he was fighting the goliath mug do going to spin the surest most contentious critic for the year is the first time i noticed something wasn't right in fleece work pretty much when he first started

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the security back on asms and agencies on the ease saying we don't want to be part of britain anymore you got caught up in stomping out aviation companies we match and banks dropping out everyone wants to get out because if you don't have the supernatural institutions that cover the yet to be part of that and you saw to be a separate go it alone island under a large rain cloud swimming in marmite worshipping some old hag of a crown. in france germany and italy and the rest are saying no we don't want to be a part of that.

trump arrives in the u.k. for his first visit u.s. president triggering protests in the capital these are live pictures right now in london of donald trump and his wife melanie are greeted by prime minister trees and made her husband. protests there there might be protests but i believe that the people in the u.k. scotland ireland as you know i have property and. i think that those people. like me a lot and they agree with me on immigration. cain trip comes. to the nato summit in brussels where he pointed out to his allies not.