putin summit we discuss it all your own crossed. cross talking some a trade i'm joined by my guest mark sloboda he's an international affairs and security analyst we also crouse he is an independent political risk analyst and we have examined him row he is the founder of the center of political strategic analysis ok gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate it eric there is to much to talk about this week as i said in my introduction and we kind of overdosing on all of this here i think what's really most important we can get some up a few days of trump's visit to nato and then to the u.k. his reception and that he had achieved very much mr trump is a bit of a loose cannon and he likes keeping people off balance he will one day give warm warm praise and the next day absolutely tearing them up in the u.k.

. but this you've got to understand there's a method to his madness mr trump it's a traveling salesman mr trump has one real interest in life which is to enhance american sales of arms and energy he wants l. the repeal ins to massively overspend on defense defense against whom you don't know ok ok so you get to my point here marc so it's not it's not about security guy least not from trump's point of view ok and i think the contradiction of trump pointing out that germany is talking about russian threat while they're also cutting billion dollar gas deals with russia points out the internal contradiction whether trump intended it or not but i agree with eric absolutely trump is is a businessman and he doesn't think in terms of geopolitics or american hegemony he thinks in terms of plus. minuses of a balance sheet and he sees that there's

a huge trade deficit between the us and the e.u. therefore he wants to correct that any way he can and. that's his problem but is that happening because exactly right after the bluster of it all i mean trump called himself a stable genius which is quite remarkable for a politician to say i must say but mccrone came right out after what we really didn't agree to anything ok i mean again i always have i have this is just so but i would like to underline the fact that. there is always talking about create an independent group of defense so i was working the moment. of my call i'm going to answer to trump so we don't want to pay more so get back to you or you nato and we're going to bite or at least independent europe. of defense

but if it's if that were to come to pass if that were to come up pass i tend to think there'd be a reassessment of the threats don't you think and then they'd say well do we really need to spend this kind of money here i mean this is the wrinkle right here eric is that if you really step back and say what is a real real threat to europe then they are their defense would be commensurate to that not with the nato paradigm is today is the fundamental problem contradiction of nato it was an alliance against the warsaw pact it was meant to fight conventional war and lies always generals were fighting the last war nothing next war it was meant to fight a conventional war with tanks and artillery in east in eastern europe that this is about as likely as a replay of the war of the roses or the thirty years war it's not going to happen the next third world war it's going to last forty five minutes. and we won't have

time to get it on t.v. so basically there is no real purpose the purpose is to keep the army the military does. you know they the thing is the mark you know i can understand where nato comes from there's a lot of people that work there and a lot of people that have jobs there but the real problem here is and they can't trump this kind of right for the wrong reason is that the nato is able at least the european members are able to reimagine a defense security architecture they're satisfied with what they have now well i think that's part of the problem is that it isn't a defense architecture at all. richard sakwa he called it a fateful geopolitical paradox that nato exists primarily to manage the risks they created by its own existence now wonderful quote that is that is if you go by the standard rationale collective security keep russia out etc nato hasn't been used

that way in decades nato has become a political figure leaf tool for us military had gemini around the world jens stoltenberg pointed out himself in response to his on the exactly of the head of nato pointed out exactly this week he says that if you its european part of nato the military usage to the united states is in perception that the use of met us military force around the world becomes much more acceptable in the eyes of the rest of the world when it's done through the filter of a cold lucian within nato it is a political thing that i think is the military aggression you can't know because only healing has been pushed aside so that you know you have to remember that before you can demand goole of nato if you look at the meeting in two thousand and two or two thousand and thirteen was the fight against party. yes yes terrorism but

also you have a big year to run some oh yeah right huge military for that and i couldn't agree more that it's a political institution the media there is a sion of europe and space by putting some space this is a way to politically control space and. you know more. the thing is is that you know you know i'm always a big advocate of sovereignty here but you know under the nato paradigm the nato countries are surrendering a lot of their sovereignty here but the way trump is doing it it's all of hackett's deal as we've said before and our g. tariffs and security for him it's all one thing ok and once you start fiddling with one of those three then it starts to unravel and this is what the elites in europe you know want to have to the only family we have a deal for you but it's a package deal we would do. the european elites are fairly pathetic i'm sorry to

say but i have seen deterioration make my french national and i have seen the deterioration of the governance of my country over the last few years which in it because of that because politics is really technocratic now i mean there's you know there's one charisma figure in the west right now it looks a bit odd it's donald trump i mean these other people don't inspire much well it's not just that i mean we don't understand how my cane to power the action was feet long previous to feet no of course it was the head of the i.m.f. who got to court is set up in new york city. and then was to follow was removed by a sudden scandal would somebody pulled out. who is it who knows where all the skeletons are hidden in europe spending tens or hundreds of billions they are aware of but then that everything that presupposes that it doesn't. does it matter who's

president of france now that matters to who is the prime minister of the u.k. i don't think so now and the more you know. the most important thing is some seem to forget it's. right there is a pro western ideology which isn't here to talk about and so in my point it's just the product and. it's a product of this ideology is to make the system and then probably it's a french go by you know these are the elites. well in france. and ireland we call it zip codes ok where you never you never see the immigrants you never see drugs in the. speaking of the variation of european union officials at this nato summit in brussels john vent juncker walking around. that might could have been go ahead i mean he would be

toasted off his butt or if you believe the official version he has that problem sorry i. just can't you want to watch repeated videos again and again of the joke i mean we had he's the president of the european commission and i think he's a perfect metaphor for the european union today back in the day they used to mock that geriatric leaders of the soviet union brezhnev and drop out for having to be propped up yeltsin. minutes up in this block and i want to ask you is. is the western north atlantic alliance it's changing is it forever changed mark i mean there's no going back to the status quo absolutely there in. europe just intends to wait trumped up whether it's two years or four years or it might look at all you know we can break up you know. no matter so now it's

a stag near me that you're going to win if they can just we will be back i think it's changing. it's clear that statement. no independent policy of defense we don't need to so it can do time can say what you want it will win on so he thinks he can pull out for us. all by himself and i don't know maybe you can. mental story here which is that we're living in a period of accelerated transition we had a single empire which was highly successful which in one thousand nine hundred forty five controlled almost fifty percent of the global g.d.p. currently controls about eighteen percent is now the world's second largest economy let that sink in china by in p.p.p. terms of course you the world bank is the world's largest there is a shift in the center of gravity and what we're seeing and what we're talking about are symptoms the the real driving force is the the the generate the change and the

change of the dominant empire and from a russian standpoint the ideal situation for russia was to do a balancing act between east and west. west has rendered impossible so russian orientation is now going to become much closer much more. time yes that's correct well kate i'm going to jump in here this is a very nice segue to what i want to talk about in the second half of the program after a short break we'll continue our discussion on some real news stayed with our. right we're all set to start in five. no signal.

he's not going to talk about. just live right after the mars explorers want to do good would have their meeting. to say. ok let's. go welcome to sophie and co-op sophie shevardnadze and today we're got lots to talk about in our program and our guest is. good luck little. one else chose seemed wrong rowles just don't call. me that you get to shape out these days comes to educate and in games from an equals

betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground. i think hiding this catastrophe of falling in britain for the past fifteen years or so was its connection to the e.u. and the ability to abse its own currency and yet passed far right into the e.u. you take those away and you have this actually greece on steroids and all those banks and the e.u. and america are going to attack the u.k. play and drive into bankruptcy. seventy four design submissions. seven thousand pilings. to join judges. eight hundred sixty nonstop days of. the

russian w.b. be a bit. under russian. show you how. long the chromium bridge was built. with most of the construction moving you need to transport. that will help them out of crimea. most of those you know what google more familiar a bit of the rights group. welcome back across like where all things considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing some real news. ok i want to go to you before we talk about the summit in helsinki you want to make a point. basically i was sort of looking at the american media coverage of this and

i was seeing an article in the in the new yorker which used to be a liberal relatively pacifist yes one. east coast publication and it has now gone full on propaganda stick and if you look at the american media you now basically have it's far as i can see three factions you have the d n c which the democratic national committee group which is still arguing with the referee eighteen eighteen months after the final whistle was blown they're still arguing they lost the election you've got to get out and try to fight the next one you've got fox news with all that represents and always has represented that hasn't changed very much. that's right and then you've got the military industrial complex which is making a lot so that's c.n.n. and them. screaming and there is no there is no independence of any of them and the problem is that they want to score points

against trump whatever it costs. me i'm really glad you brought this up because it's about susan b. glasser and it's the the amateur boxer up against muhammad ali washington fears trump will be no match for putin in helsinki now this is a very interesting i'm glad you made it and you made me aware of it mark but this is a perfect example of a low octane intelligence getting you know it's certainly i mean she's no sharp sharp knife in the drawer ok but not by any standards but this is the swamp this is a spy. article ok and it really is and eric's right it's against if it's against wrong from then it's perfectly fine but it has nothing to do with the geopolitical interests of the united states eighteen years ago the same it made us explaining where expanding that to continue to. be and always mummy daddy that's not always muhammad ali right exactly it's interesting the title that she took this you know

that trump is an amateur boxer fighting muhammad and lee is supposedly a quote from an anonymous for her own story or. i know that usual but not a missile retreads from the law that states coming back what this article shows us and it's a good one to read and there's a good one going if you if you flip through the new yorker's articles this week it is it is just one among many in a similar vein they're terrified of the summit because they and we it must be said do not know what trump will do at this summit there is no agreed upon reason for the summit other than to have a summit you know the idea of starting to talk but usually when there's a summit between the leaders of the u.s. and russia there are months of preparatory work low level officials on various issues go back and forth they debate the issues that really cause a lot of policy that is playing right here don't know but what i said that they

want to i think there's the i think there is a method to this madness here i think no i think really what it is is that trump wants to make sure he's going to have the summit he wants and not what john bolton wanderers are not what pomp aoe wants not one always confused nikki haley wants he's going to have his own there and they're terrified that when he goes into that room with just interpreters and his deep state handlers not there you know to handle him as it were to get there he he you know what he might do we don't know what he might do but there. terrified of that possibility ad him threatening you know threatening that germany that there are a captive of russia right when the opposite is actually far closer to the truth or threatening to pull out of nato right just in the last week they were in the united kingdom where he's having a discussion with the prime minister and saying that boris johnson bojo anyway

could put it in there too that he but i don't see what. what either side can give to the other i don't see anything ok because there's a lot maybe because there's no preparation for it but i don't i don't see. how i don't. have good results but this was that we were no november election what need no. meeting was put in for. election americans through care about foreign policy and a certain but we do know be careful we have indications that his base would like to see better relations with russia but one of pushing it only because if. we go full circle here everything he says he says for his base it's not about security it's not about economics it's not about anything except for himself and his base eric go on. at this point is that mr trump tomorrow announce that he had

a meeting lined up with the holy ghost within twenty four hours that new york times would be the kremlin has ordered the the holy trinity their work there they don't care and this is a very desolate god to democrat i guess it's a very dangerous situation for any country when the domestic political players are more interested in harming each other than for the national interest this is when you get civil war it looks with the indictment of the alleged twelve russian intelligence officials here i mean i think all of us think that the timing of that is quite peculiar to say well i mean it's obvious it's a political message right it comes right on the heels of the stroke hearings in congress and their statement that was ok but it's obviously a political attempt to derail the. you know one of the things i think is really important i'm glad you brought that up because we can and i watched the talking

heads dissect that testimony from peter. struck it was one of the most amazing things i've ever seen in my life. beyond the optics too but what was interesting and i think this is we've talked about on this program many times of crisis of institutions this really is that really at the crux of all of this here is the separation of powers is that the f.b.i. and the d.o.j. are defining congress this is not trivial this is not trivial at all and i think this is where it's coming in struck still being an employee of the f.b.i. gets the shield of the protection of the f.b.i. once he's out we'll see what happens to him his girlfriend. lisa page looks like she's going to be ok ok we'll see that next week but there's an institutional crisis here. i mean france you were talking about. is this i mean brazil is a seven speed the. permanence of.

the u.s. through these crises because it's of course if. no matter what if said during this summit. trumps likely to get any credit for it i mean it doesn't matter the outcome even if there is no outcome and you said it he's going to get it basically it's going to like with kim he's going to come out is going to announce a major victory great step forward for american security they'll come up with some sort of my guess and it's only a guess and marco probably disagree is that putin will give something about iran. well see i think you'll agree that why why would you do that why would he do that and then number two why should it in the russian political trust donald trump doesn't have to trust him he's not giving away the keys to the kremlin i grew up. so. how do you guys how do you know what you actually want to do i think they're

discussing that could be you're fired to. be honest. it bill is a deal in syria we know trump wants to pull out of syria his own military has been preventing him one of the areas in particular is this all top of base in the south basically it's a desert area there's very few rebels left there most of them have been transferred trained and transferred to a token case i joke that important it's a highway there so part of the idea what the americans are so furious about now is is the present is it meaning the israelis and the saudis are furious about now why the american dog is that the iranians are in syria while they don't want the iranians in syria and why did you go back why don't you try to overthrow thirty one flavors of jihad and six hours right and that's exactly why the iranians sincere it's a lesson they already learned from iraq is trying to preserve relationship with israel to somebody and somebody really having the yes and that sort of but this is diplomacy and so the idea is that they might offer that putin gets iran into

a box a back down out of there miles iraqi waters and in return the u.s. gives up a military base that it has syria that it has you know he was focused on let's not forget that there is a legitimate government in syria they have to be on the horn to all open and syria have to do is promise oh sure the iranians will be gone the americans give up the military base and then next week the iranians can be wherever they want cases having use and you're an expert on ukraine is ukraine going to play any role in this summit do you think in my opinion. as a beatle against ukraine. and we know we saw what they did was truck so it was not love the regime inc yes yeah you know it's very interesting the question of how much money by the ukrainian all of dark skinned to the trump campaign i don't think any ok and i think they did a lot with what they're going to do to give an interview on a newspaper and. discussed with some discussions with from and from very well.

understand the kremlin position on ukraine but it doesn't understand what kids really want as police put the politically speaking so first trump has appeal against the kim government and going to be we don't have to forget that russia is not a competitor for us germany he's of course and so i totally. trading between russia and units to. g.d.p. for both sides so it's almost it's almost nothing so. it really is you surprise me to go. make america agree to industrial country again so just only interest to find an agreement when he says there's no no i'd be just for him to make him great the history of this is that on the first let's see after november we don't know what are your words with because there was some actually very serious

discussion between the u.s. and the russian part but again in my opinion we want any official result. you know we're going to people every ten seconds more immediately will be very interesting language trump says russia is a competitor and john mccain rises from his deathbed to say that no russia is an enemy they're going to be a. spokesman says no i think quite trolling no trump is our partner ok. that's all the time we have many thanks to my guest here in moscow this is the end of our broadcast segment stay with us for the extended version on our you tube channel see you next time and remember crosstalk.

f.o.c. clearly. manufactured

and sentenced to public wealth. when the ruling classes project themselves. in the final larry go round me the one percent. we can all middle of the room six. million real names will. join me every thursday on the alex salmond show and i'll be speaking to guests of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then. just standing in the middle of the street and someone reaches in their back in the back with

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higher education the new global economic war. all right now on the finnish health where president vladimir putin is said to me. the first summit between the two leaders. even before it's kicked off. former k.g.b. colonel in the kremlin could be doing some important intelligence gathering on his american counterpart people are terrified the best case scenario is a scenario where basically nothing terrible was. twenty eighteen world cup lifting the trophy offer of sixty four games played russian i. i .