crosstalk in the helsinki summit i'm joined by my guest michael o'hanlon in washington he's a senior fellow at the brookings institution also in washington we have daniel ferrazzi he is the director of grassroots political consulting and in london we cross to marry the chef ski she's a columnist for the independent and guardian aren't cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate mary let me go to you first in london i guess your most important takeaway impression of the of the summit in helsinki and what was accomplished two points go ahead mary. well i think the most important thing was that it happened a tall i was one of the people who was actually quite in favor of it happening and felt the to should have happened much closer to the beginning of donald trump's presidency and i'm sorry that it wasn't as to what it to achieved i think that's probably best summed up in

a phrase that president putin used in his initial statement where he talked about first steps and i think it was probably unrealistic to expect anything other than the thing more than first steps but i think at least that was accomplished but of course in in the twenty four hours after the summit and after the press conference i mean what we've seen is been a complete demolition from washington i mean personally i'm just amazed looking at the u.s. response or at least probably what is better called the response of the washington political establishment the swamp that's what i call it ok michael is that the same two points to you i mean the most important question you have in what was accomplished if anything go ahead michael but first peter greetings from the swamp here in washington in a second congratulations to russia and russia congratulations are an amazing world

cup we all enjoy that around the world and i think it's worth emphasizing such points even on a serious political to you michel because it is bring us in the last hour we did not feel very isolated from the world ok so thank you very much it was a wonderful wonderful experience go ahead by two points on the summit go ahead yeah and then secondly i agree with mary's main point i think that it was good to have a summit i do regret that our president president trump probably did not handle the question about the twenty sixteen elections very well i understand why he doesn't want to get into that in a press conference where he's trying to sustain a positive vibe with president putin but i think he should have therefore given a non-answer. other than what we consider in the united states to be a wrong answer and that unfortunately did take the entire political commentary really on both sides of the political aisle here in washington in a negative direction against president trump not so much against president putin not so much against whatever substance may have been discussed privately but against that particular handling of the twenty sixteen election issue i hope we can

move beyond that because i would like to view this as mary says at least baby steps towards a better relationship well you know daniel you know it seems that you know i mean trump is accused of coddling enemies in and dissing friends but you know the u.s. media centrally coddled a lot of your putin and demonized the president of the united states those questions and i saw that preview before that the press or jim acosta people like that they already had their knives out they weren't going to listen to the president they were just going to ask questions as if they were in washington d.c. they had no interest in what the two presidents had to say they went there and i'm afraid and i'm going to agree with michael fell for it we should go ahead daniel. yet i would say washington would have woken up to a neo con nightmare no matter what happened there didn't even need to be a press conference this was all a foregone conclusion i will agree with mary as well i am pleased that this took place i'm also pleased that

a great world cup was pulled off as well but you know this language today is against president trump and against putin as well all across the media you watch morning joe and it just on and on and on for at worse a across the channels fox news is inflame c.n.n. and there's this short history in memory of president bush and vladimir putin having a good summit together trying and at that time there was the possibility of russian involvement in the european union and nato itself president obama and medvedev their famous on camera. off camera cordial relationship back and forth hillary clinton and the reset but because this is trump and because there is actually a chance dialogue and progressive steps being made on syria on ukraine and on other issues this is led up this town regardless of what happened and yet if it seems it

has little to do with what actually happened in helsinki let me go to mary here we have former cia director john brennan quote donald trump's press conference performance in helsinki was treasonous he is wholly in the pocket of putin republican patriots where are you we have james komi wildly i mean you know lordy james komi oh my goodness he says patriots need to stand up and reject the behavior of this president oh are they calling for a coup like they pulled off in ukraine in two thousand and fourteen go ahead mary. well i think they're probably calling for something a lot short of that but i think what is behind what they said i mean aside from being a sort of need jerk reaction that they regarded what donald trump sad as being as betraying. as it were the good name and expertise of the united states now both of them are hardly friends of donald trump now so to an extent.

they were cheerleading or at least whatever the opposite of cheerleading is in washington against trump. but i think there is a real problem here. what was donald trump supposed to do when confronted with what was going to be the question because although you know what's been sad. is well he should have given a non-answer well trump you know very often he's not diplomatic in that way he doesn't really specialize in. and so i think there's a real problem what was he supposed to say from his perspective was he supposed to say oh no you know now i believe all these all these claims that russia are into fan to in our election and colluded with my team to get me elected or was he going to say which has been his position all along that he actually rejects these claims

even though a section not or but a section of u.s. intelligence actually says he supports them you know you know michel the thing is is that. i agree with mary but you know obviously trump is not a man of nuance ok i think all of us would agree with that and everyone watching this program you know but what kind of answer was he supposed to demand from putin i mean he could say i listened to what he had to say but we have to move on because i mean it's a bit rich michael when the united states for the last seventy years have been throwing a lections undermining democracy installing governments i mean all over the world and so the russian military or counterintelligence they kind of poked around i mean it's part of their job they would be remiss if they didn't do it ok i don't understand this kind of moral outrage that someone might do what we do to the whole world all the time go ahead michael. first of all peter i think you have accurately

explained the way that for example president putin probably looks at this problem whatever he may have authorized in two thousand and sixteen and i believe he did authorize meddling in the us and we have no evidence of this bill really have no evidence of that right. right we have no evidence either i just told you what i think ok i think we have pretty good evidence but i'd rather not i'd rather just accept your point that what you're doing is describing a worldview which has some basis of history behind it because you're right historically i don't believe this happens in this way anymore but historically the united states like the soviet union during the cold war both engineered a number of changes of government and certainly were very interested in shaping the politics of a lot of countries around the world and we still do that although i think by more overt transparent means even today president putin thinks he's just i genuinely believe that's how he looks at the problem but what i would have suggested that president trump say is i'm not here to talk about twenty sixteen but we do have to

harden our democracy against any effort by foreign interference from any source or maybe eighteen or maybe that one or maybe your average or maybe predicted from the democratic national committee to be predicted to be america's democracy that way it is will only let me become a go to go not what i was but i will not do you know what i mean well i mean i mean if there was anything rigged in the two thousand and sixteen election talk to bernie sanders about it all right daniel let me get a go to you will be finishing up there's some part of the program go ahead. i would say that this will continue of course our tension and russia phobia there's a refusal from the foundation of this to accept russia as the soviet union down to even the language they don't talk today about president trump and putin being like medvedev and obama and bush and putin and it's all in the terms of kennedy and nixon and these grand soviet meetings the world cup is another way of i mean how dare we say that you guys are in the twenty first century the second. out of it

being you know on the summit like kate said the press conference going to happen or not and this would have ended up in the same level of tension and the irony is at the point that you made peter we meddle and in fact everyone saying today trump should have said if you meddle in eighteen or twenty you know our relationships over well hell bent right here at the national prayer breakfast only a few months ago in washington d.c. there was a fundraiser held for putin's opposition right at a same conference where president trump was speaking so we meddle in interfere all over the world and this is a big large powers do but i mean president it could have been brought right back from putin to trump about how overt you know raising money and giving a forum to his opposition candidate how much more blatant of interference can you get them and ok when we get we're going to go to a break here but you know the interesting thing is that i don't think it actually

has much to do with russia anymore it has to do with impeachment and that's what it looks like to me all right i'm going to jump in here we're going to go to a short break and after that short break we'll continue our discussion on the healthy summit stayed with us. in a world with big partisan mob and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that mainstream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now we're watching closely watching the hawks.

right we're all set to start in five yes the studio has a signal. he's not going to talk about no fly just needed right after the mars explorers were moved would have their new. record. to say what we know. about halos. welcome to sophie until i'm seriously shevardnadze said today we've got lots to talk about in our program and our guest is. good luck at.

the new global economic war is unfolding in the realm of education the right to education of being supplanted by the right to access education low its high education is becoming just another product that can be born and sold but it's not just about education anymore it's also about running a business there where you know most of the regime look good there's also the kind of fellow we couldn't we. want is the place of students in this business model before college i was born now and i'm extremely more higher education the new global economic war. welcome back across like we're all things are considered i'm peter about toronto were discussing the helsinki summit. ok let me go back to mary in london and. finished the first half of the program

here it's seems to me and i'm going to express my opinion is that no collusion is been proven actually the last indictment actually should make that clear rod rosenstein why he announced it to the public is a mystery to me i don't think he should have done that but nonetheless so collusion is kind of off the table and obstruction of justice that's pretty dicey too but russia treason and this is what we're getting treason when you when a political culture starts using that term very loosely you know you're in trouble here this is something from the atlantic james fallows and this is where it's going this is the moment of truth for republicans the g.o.p. can either defend the united states or serve that the damaged and defective man who is now its president and this is their going into the midterm election this is what they want to do they want to start picking off moderate republicans as they go into the election here it's because donald trump is

a traitor that's their new message here i think that's disgusting ok when you start questioning other people's patriotism you know you're in a bad place go ahead mary. well i think i think those were the very extreme comments from the extreme and people who were talking after the after the press conference i think that in one respect maybe they reflect the views of people who still hope against hope that the may possibly be grounds for impeachment and obviously we're looking at the sort of pre run up to the midterm elections and i think that's entirely right but what i find very difficult to gauge from here is i understand the mood in washington and to a lesser extent i understand it as it were on the on the coasts and democratic dominated coasts but i wonder how much trumps natural constituency

heartland america is going to respond to all this do you think it's going to pick up the idea that the president they elect is actually disloyal to his to his odin people or are they going to say no no the establishment the establishment has betrayed us not the president you know mary it's true it's really interesting i've been saying over the last few weeks here and i and viewers will know it i think you know how i think that trump has this envelope in his pocket and he pulls it out after every single promises been kept i met putin ok check supreme court justice check job's carobs check check check it's not about america first it's about donald trump first ok and as far as the heartland this whole russia gate nonsense for them it's essentially nonsense it's a stick to beat the president and it's the liberal media that does it so i think

that's already answered let me go to michael because michael and i fundamentally disagree on almost every single thing ok except for the world cup was great but i want to be friendly to my friend michael because i think the. one of the things i think is so tragic is that you've been mentioning. on the margins you know the essentials behind the case for russia did meddle in the election and i you know what i think you're a good honorable man and you believe what you say but people like myself actually believe i actually believe what i say too and this is the log or head that we have come into and i and i think disagreement is really really good and we have a good banter but i'm not going to say that you're a traitor to your own country because you disagree with me and i think this is what's happening right now in the u.s. and that can lead to no good and go ahead michael no i agree with you on that point i think mr brennan who's a very honorable man an important man in our country because he was

a cia director he really would have been better advised not to use that word he could have been very very scathing in his critique of the specific sentence that donald trump used in regard to this twenty sixteen issue i think he could have been very tough on that particular point but one thing i learned a long time ago even before getting into public policy debates and television is when you're going to criticize somebody criticize a specific thing they did or a specific word and give them a chance therefore to make amends don't don't try to make it about the broader character now donald trump does invite debate about your character sure because we know he is a very controversial polarizing figure so it becomes almost a temptation rather it's a temptation that people are better off trying to resist these specific in your criticisms that's the way i try to operate with this or any other president you know danielle ok i'm going to get real part of it again right now you know i looked at you know james komi comes out with a measured brennan comes out i wonder if peter struck is talking about this here i

mean the i can understand how donald trump i mean he's been an office you know five hundred days plus you know and he still having to have to deal with when this brennan going to be deposed when is he going. to be questioned ok i would like to know that ok there's a number of very thoughtful smart people that think that brennan could be one of the primary movers behind this big conspiracy i mean it seems to me that he's projecting so much because he has a lot to answer for and he won't because he would he everybody right everybody wraps themselves up on the flag on this one and that's where it gets really dicey go ahead daniel. also brennan has been chastised by his own colleagues senate democrats for lying to congress as well and nothing ever came of that on critical intelligence testimony both behind closed doors and overtly this is interesting that part you're bringing into the politics of this the base trump

thing i'll give him the most credit in the world as a lifelong democrat turned into a tea party evangelical baby boomer fox news viewer you know individual good christian all of titian good for you know it's his base. he knows his base better than anybody that's why he tweets the red meat to them i think that checklist you have we're going to end up seeing that on campaign rallies across the country the next few months they will not move a needle and the more the elite in gauges and slams him on this press conference and engagement with russia and try to promulgated further rusher phobia more of his base will completely turn that off now the interesting part taking place the last few days and into the next several days is that fox news itself the channel that protects the president is definitely there neo con faction and there is tacking

well to lift the glee since this press conference so that may have many times temper a little bit a fair carli certainly continues to travel down the straight line and i give him kudos for that he did a great excellent job yeah ok absolutely larry let's get back and some. because like i like michael i'm a policy guy i like policy ok all of this is great entertainment you know if you love or hate someone it's still winter training you know did you see the needle movie at all for syria ukraine arms control these are topics i'm interested in and i would like to see address. going that something is started even if we use the term baby steps. yes i mean i think that quite a lot has actually started and that you know if anybody actually listened or remembered what putin was saying in his statement at the opening of the press conference which has been practically written out of the script now because american domestic politics has taken over there were the there were some quite

specific moves which i think at least make it possible that can be there can be advances there was the question of syria and the united states helping with reconstruction and setting up actual arrangements for that to happen. there was i think probably the most disappointing from my perspective was that i didn't see any real progress on ukraine. though putin really answered for trump when he made clear that there were still disagreements and that trump hadn't actually surrendered on the matter of crimea which is what people had suggested he might do in advance i think there are going to be working groups set up on the various arms control treaties existing ones that need to be. continued and maybe new ones in the pipeline so i think there's been progress on all those areas plus the actual fact that this meeting happened so that. an atmosphere and.

dialogue of persona could maybe sort of all has been established so i think we are further forward i think we're further forward maybe not very much but i. think we often michael basically the same question i mean you're a policy guy i read your stuff in the three areas that i mentioned there has the needle moved in your mind because you know putin was the one that brought up about crimea and you don't let me give an example for our viewers here i think a lot of people don't know that after the baltic republics were brought into the soviet union during the second world war the united states and its allies never recognized the baltic republics as part of the soviet union but they had arms control agreements trade agreements the leaders met each other they had high points and they had low points but that didn't stop that bilateral relationship so why can't we do the same thing now ok the united states and its allies did not there's

not they do not recognize crimea as a part of the sovereign state of russia but life goes on and you know you know the the the people of the crimea already made up their mind i mean it seems to me common sense but common sense doesn't prevail go ahead michael well i agree with most of what you and mary just said i thought you did a very nice job of summarizing what we know about the policy discussions especially on syria to some extent on crimea and your point's well taken that this is something that we can disagree about but yet still contain it doesn't have to dominate the relationship i would like to see a fuller discussion on security in eastern europe as you know but maybe there were baby steps accomplished at least. let's go to daniel daniel i mean how is term i mean does it in terms mind was this a victory because i haven't heard i haven't read it read only. the summit here i mean how is he going to sell it because i did notice we're rapidly running out of time nobody in his inner circle has actually spoken to the press that i'm aware of

go ahead. i think the jury's out as to hell he'll react in how hill assess this over time and if the elite media continues to assail him and his base stays with him it'll be a victory and i think on these key point syria ukraine it arms control we will know when weeks and months whether the needle is moved whatsoever i think on.