propaganda bastien's information as we're trying to deploy in this program much of these organizations including for about lot of the b.b.c. world service seem to point to a better way to conduct and relations and hard but i think soft power is fundamentally superior. the concept of soft power is defined as a persuasive approach to international relations typically involving the use of economic or cultural influence in the u.k. it is applied to many institutions some governmental and some like a great universities autonomous commanding a public scene is defeated well it's impressive developmental budget however there are many other states and some pure parliamentary such as into parliament to union to the state funded british council which for most educational and cultural links to hybrid initiatives between government and political parties such as the westminster find ation for democracy the work of the british council can depend on

support across the commons here's an example of the government's or about benches for saying the case thank you speaker i welcome the very significant contribution made by the british council to protecting british values overseas and regularly witness this on my visits to ration the pacific given the importance of the british council when it comes to our soft power what are the implications of possible cuts in funding to. da funding to the council's work and how much use of fact the government plans for a global. five mile befriend for his question as part of our vision for global growth we want a properly funded and effective council project. right across the world i believe that the council will continue to deliver activity in not only the countries through the income generated from other sources such as its commercial income and from both chambers soft power has strong supporters and advocates alex book forced to problem crossbench of buying decision from the house of lords and then to go to

lisa cameron the member of parliament stephen and. i'm delighted to be joined by violet certain herself one of the foremost exponents in the house of lords so both these organizations which are generally thought to constitute soft power how do you rate the importance by a certain i thing that organizations for example british council but many of the organization that are working in south africa and different parts of the world makes our work much more easy and they said the space for greater understanding and i think more cooperation everything about the recent comment of conference was very unusual because it became almost a lightning conductor. started to see itself some of the other commonwealth countries will see him because of the hostile environment policy and when russia generation and public policy in the u.k. to be changed as a result you girls are a beneficial process for public policy makers in the u.k.

sadly i think that it would work towards changing and. sort of. enabling a climate where more honorable discussion could take place and put aside some of our difficult years as colonizers i think that i can say that they've been one of the debates in the lords i actually said and i highlighted the you know our foreign secretaries lack of diplomacy when he mentioned in a meeting that you know it may be seen as how it should be colonize asia number two or whatever it is disgraceful so i think we had to do quite a lot of work and some of these international organization had to make you know do with what he had said as president to say no we have a long history in many countries in the wild and we have a very important place for us while these very small now you know it's a global world and we need to work together so you are going to be the soft the policy is rather more effective than the the sharp and sometimes unfortunate phrase

i think is much more significant than phrase who historically we've been you. used to walking in in such a way that you know we have this government to government relationship and then we've set out organizations like commonwealth parliament sociate the british council some of the large n.g.o.s to do the soft power a bit but we never recognise them in public so you know whenever in debates or in the public arena we're all too quick to criticize these organizations saying they're not accountable when we really need is that they have made sure the government work becomes absolutely integrated in what they do and we've got to try and make sure that you know no. strategy no government strategy calls funding back one of your great campaigns usually has been on the overseas students and you seem to give those almost a disconnect between the policy which generates such goodwill of students being

educated in this country. being little scotland across these islands a bit secondly the government's hostile attitude to the number of overseas students so what do you be doing with your campaign to try and change the government's mind i think must be stated categorically we mustn't say leg where those student comes from so we mustn't say for instance only tiny students are good enough only indian students are good enough we must say also russian students you know students from pakistan bangladesh you know all the other countries that can really you know make sure that they contribute to the diaspora community that is already very vibrant in britain so your message to government is get a couple of overseas students and demonstrate you're really interested in international influence completely change the script which is my verdict i have to take every opportunity of saying it i think that what we must say now in an open global way that we mustn't talk about it and one way in the media and do something

completely different we have to be concise and you know just read. we say that we value these organizations and they. buy a suit and thank you so much for the interview it's always a pleasure. and i'm from the house of lords to the house of commons i speak to dr lisa problem another parliamentarian hugely active in these organizations promoting international cooperation. a member of the parliamentary union you form with the international development select committee and of course the major different offices in your constituency have porton do you think generally called soft. and international relations thank you stream way important i know you from posting parliamentarians to the u.k. parliament and there was a bilateral discussions on generations west something that there was full and sustained even the most difficult times when perhaps political difficulties arise

if you have those bilateral relationships that. then. she can rely on to try to negotiate a way forward. with the states tweak something offensive two o'clock in the morning and then to national media jumps could you actually how the role for these long term relationships instant media and constant insults well you know the media is is one aspect but behind are the relationships of parliament to parliament over a lengthy history piece of time and the ships are built up points just. on prior working agreements their belts and sustainability and those are the ones that despite instant media reactions both sustain over time you see when you're approaching the commonwealth countries where so many of them for example still have what we would think of as repressive legislation on gay rights. subject you are

able to discuss openly of a sock. tof bidens in case people take offense i think is importance of soft power perhaps. ministers from different countries but find it difficult to discuss those sorts of issues in the public to mean parliamentarians parliamentarian which are the types of issues that can be discussed and countries are very interested to like ways forward to have worked in other areas and to try to and to trick us in their own country and make sure that nothing else you have championed the point. of national income going to international development and of course the difference major offices in your own constituency share and a regular participant in the different programs are a great deal about can you point to because this product is often challenge to the real effect of these development programs and my constituents are very supportive

of all the deficits in the constituency but not just because it's in the states and so we know what it is doing such valuable work and to nationally getting disabled children into skill and seeing the smile on their faces is worthwhile on that we talk on the heart strings of of any conception across united kingdom. to be energetic tabloid press campaign against international development budget is still being sustained at the present moment are you confident that the cross party support for it will be enough to to maintain that position the it budget but it is important it's important times of eradicating poverty that sixty million porton in terms of stability and the world and if we can try to create stability jobs and livelihoods for people and other countries then issues such as migration a say it to our lessons and those are issues that the government also is prioritizing and be able to feel the urge to as you champion the cause of of soft power soft influence to just stop shouting at each other or stop the sky sing over

the long. can you see a change in the environment. or the advantages of these long term relationship yeah i mean it can be frustrating at times when people take very polarized possessions because you knew that the way forward is there is a middle path often. as a psychologist standing up to people doesn't often. to your own type of thinking so is it by reasoning is about getting people inside inspect pragmatism i think going forward and as a psychologist you ever feel like tweeting but to the united states. no i haven't thought of a treaty so that you know if the united states as a psychologist i think i'm quite concerned by the level of your central willing female in particular parliamentarians in the u.k. and actually we've done some work on not through the end of parliamentary union israel and westminster foundation for democracy and you'll continue to champion the

cause of soft power as indeed over all yes i think it's extremely important it works behind the scenes but it's often what is effective and what works over the long term a member and some national delegations should be a part of a particular resonance when people find a member of parliament from scotland was definitely it's often the case that delegates will come up to me and say that they have a board already with scotland they've studied in scotland they've child in scotland perhaps a peanuts andras university aberdeen are possible they may. respond on they want to increase the bilateral relations which is really important for scotland. thank you very much and you know but. in the studio. coming up after the break we look from the theory of soft power to the practice and specifically tie these initiatives have impacted on the key commonwealth country of pakistan as we speak

to on the run. with the then. new economic war is unfolding in the realm of education the right to education is being supplanted by the right to. education. higher education is becoming just another product that can be bought and sold but it's not just about education anymore it's also about running a business where you could. want is the place of students in this business model before college i was born now in an extremely more high education the new global economic war. when we were doing stuff with russell brand you know we highlighted one of the payday lenders in the u.k. and they in fact closed up shop and it was very effective but it's one of the most

pernicious and ugliest and underhanded way to destroy a society is by letting blunders you know exploit the fact that they can get away with two thousand three thousand fourteen thousand dollars thirty percent a year interest. welcome back i know from the second part of our program and soft part of the organizations which the ploy of we're told the focus to one country pakistan i'm examining the impact on the country i'm speaking to ali who's worked for both the british i'm the westminster foundation for democracy. you worked for a number of years as the country of the westminster foundation for democracy what

was the main area of your work. and it's first of all thank you very much for inviting to this your. book my work with this mr foundation for democracy was more focus on sporting unstinting parliamentary performances in pakistan and linking pakistani parliament with a u.k. parliament and your scottish parliament we were working a number of countries and we had been linking those parliamentary experiences between pakistani parliament and those parliament i'm a former board member of the west was the phone nation and i think it be true to say that across the political parties the board members were very concerned the wouldn't programs which would be seen as preaching to people or saying the the westminster system was was perfect and beyond reproach but rather to support the do you think. managed effectively in pakistan to get across the support idea

with. being at the holier than thou than saying westminster the mother of parliaments was perfect the specifications experience in provoking in pakistan it was more like widely accepted because she has the same common values and westminster parliament to democracy system but at the same time as you're mentioning you're right in mentioning that. like telling other parliaments what to do is something which is not acceptable to the integrity of pakistani parliament as then i remember i was in the scottish parliament two thousand and fourteen and we had some great learning from the way committee systems but we're thinking of the scottish pakistan relations. tell me how you felt. pakistan plan. as working particularly the emphasis on education and also in women's participation in politics the books on the citizens have very much respected image of scottland

and especially. because like they are they are like getting now well educated so so they are much more focusing on their education and that's why there are certain opportunities for the pakistani you all to get benefit from the amazing education of scottish institutions women empowerment was not the thirty year ago and now we see women in every sphere of life in pakistan you had a woman prime minister before scotland yes we have the woman speaker of the nation somebody the first ever woman speaker of the countries at the same time i must share my parliament experiences just like in two thousand and seventeen eighteen we have twenty percent women parliamentarian and their country voted fifty percent of the parliament of business so their choice how serious they are and and in pakistan has gone some very good problem unless nation as well but that does not

mean that everything is like at the moment is very very rosy. for the woman in pakistan scott was connections with pakistan legion of course i remember i was in the commonwealth games twenty four team there was a difficulty with the the pakistan bowling team terms of the formulation so the very last minute the cold. a couple of chico and ali from from glasgow to represent pakistan and the very last minute they had to the pakistan team and were actually beating the favorite. if we flew the first but of course they wasn't of. the get of the good. the very close can ship and family connections between scott and pakistan like there are certain cooperation areas which. i think that was a part of scottish government's policy as well and. one such area was this in a few sector and water sector right now pakistan is facing

a great challenge in terms of water management. is getting one of the water stressed countries and there should be serious prices in next ten years so i think again water and energy. can be like these kind of support. those of us a great natural advantages but water technology and one of the relatively few publicly owned but extremely water companies in the world which gives a certain advantage will it's contributing to the international international development yes and one final thing which i would like to highlight is that this bilateral cleared because pakistan since two thousand and fourteen is having this huge e.s.p. plus status we are like the father you are union to all access to the pakistani marquee ten bucks on the market can sell their products to your union which is the all consuming issue in the westminster parliament the british politics. the impact

on public discourse in pakistan that the common perception in pakistan is there is a market economy and like this trade relationship between the union that's going to be in the benefit of the rest of the world as well. somehow. see that like this breaks it impact is not only going to impact the economy but it's going to impact the economy is that pakistan view britain's membership of european union or certainly the european single market place as a fate of the gate of entry for pakistan for britain into the way the european marketplace was an aspect that terms of the economic relationship and most of the pakistanis they believe that this single market economy was going to be beneficial for the pakistani. like have this common market where they can come inside and once which isn't coming out of there of course because as i've already mentioned the.

status if you came out of the union then. just replaced it as is not going to work and box on has to build those kind of buy later trade agreements have a relationship that you can that's going to impact a lot but with the common market economy i think was getting some great benefit out of the way you're a lawyer by profession as pakistani politics is dominated by the legal profession as british boat. yes we have some great lawyers who are working in the parliament so yes it's not dominated but yes there are certain great lawyers who are in the parliament and in the key government positions so we would say well that's a good for a bad thing. thank you so much for the interview just before you go i want to present you with a quick which is the scots girl is full of

a loving cup you know that usually traditionally the scot that's where the quaker mode but all the soft drinks are available could be brew could even be di cold but for probably thanks indeed for the well thank you very much alex thank you ali thank you thank you. so part of course can be used in a number of ways not least innovation but there may be anybody diaspora to exist across the island i'm delighted to be joined by the rashad the chief executive officer and trustee of the british heart foundation welcome to the alec family like you were having me tell us a bit about the british accent foundation for the british rock sound foundation is a social enterprise it's a nonprofit secular bipartisan community building that was founded in two thousand and ten and provides an opportunity to professionally develop and support entrepreneurs. among so a one point five million british box on these in the u.k. of course it packs on a fifth grade well across you kate maybe in scotland and all contributing extremely

well to the court to me to find that the setting up of this foundation which has many supporters has engaged british overseas pakistanis who have come here with the white or indigenous community as well i would say has the one way we have done is to creating professional forums such as for law and medicine finance on shapiro's and by offering mentoring and intel and chips and opportunities for people to network interact not with just members of the british pakistani community but the wider community and kind of share and celebrate the best of their culture find the bridge back then foundation has a role to play in engaging soft power definitely because we have influence within the dots for us and also to the dots for and pockets on this well we will close it with a box on high commission and we've been working closely supporting the u.k. government with the foreign office and the commonwealth summit the u.k. department of trade the home office building stronger britain together program and the department of communities and local government and a number of your projects took my took my interest funders in relation to women and

young people tell us a bit about that so under the women's program we have various initiatives we are right we run a leadership program in london the first of all show focus on communication and as such as in a skills what we discovered is a lot of fun british bucks on ian v.m.e. women from that same minority background there's a bit of a conflict within their own culture a bringing which kind of teaches them to be more you know it's sometimes subservient and in the workplace they're meant to be very assertive so that was there were some cultural barriers there that women faced carnaval running an entrepreneurship program for the most disadvantaged v.m.e. women and british box on the women in birmingham at the news come center and that was very fulfilling we launched the program in may and we had a initial workshop this month and it was great to see you know a lot of enthusiasm so a lot of these ladies have never had. these opportunities you do have various setups and then your organization where people from say the medical profession legal profession women can mix and meet with each other definitely because they

want the lack of positive role models for such as yourself you know women who kind of out there engaging participating or fifty percent of british box money women don't vote is very important for them to understand their role and how they can have a say in you know shaping the political future right now especially with backside and all of these you know challenges that the a facing now of course you have the support the u.k. government the home office and you're in dave right on the pakistan high commission which is excellent if you find that they have you have a good working relationship and how you do what's it like to be a british pakistani. i'm very proud to be a british box on the i'm proud to be british and i'm proud to be fox on the i think that vantage is that you can take the best of both cultures and in that way you add the most value to commute to society in this country i do feel that we would love the government to support more we always need more support to be able to expand because a well established in london we know trying to expand our programmes are there much

needed in bradford leeds glasgow manchester and birmingham and the conduit with all the support of the government set a shot thank you very much indeed thank you god i mean thank you night over to alex a few years back i was in a meeting in the leadership compound in beijing with the then chinese formalised it was an important meeting not least of which because the u.k. was in the doctors and the hadn't been any zone in the harley meeting with any minister of any description from the u.k. for some considerable time. halfway through the meeting the the foreign minister. wished but i thought he should accept the offer of an on a degree from these. the london school of economics. i said of course the foreign minister should go to london. for good measure but the point about the story is this evening. then connections of education and culture can cut through more conventional diplomacy might well feel. like the united kingdom should

abandon any attempt to project power and often instead more educational cultural exchanges not totally doesn't mean as one of our viewers. know not totally again but it's difficult to the conclusion that what we have countries compete to. might be fundamentally more attractive and rather than one of their countries compete in a number that can balance a nuclear sub believe it's difficult to avoid that conclusion that the balance of expenditure of the united kingdom is out of kilter and that more use of more soft power might work to the benefit of a song and so from myself and all of the team. it's good bye for now.

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ill informed wild speculation britain security minister dismisses media reports that police have identified the perpetrators. poisoning. also this hour a us court refuses to russian citizen money off the charging lobbyist with conspiracy to defraud the united states. for connection with america. i. approach to the ground.