both chambers soft power has strong supporters and advocates alex book forced to problem crossbench of buying decision from the high since lords and then to go to lisa cameron the member of parliament stephen and me. i'm delighted to be joined by violet certain herself one of the foremost exponents in the house of lords so both these organizations which are generally thought to constitute soft power how do you rate the importance by a certain i think that organizations for example british council but many of the organization that are working in south africa in different parts of the world makes our work much more easy and they set the space for greater understanding and i think more cooperation everything about the recent comment of conference was very unusual because it became almost a lightning conductor. started to see itself some of the other commonwealth countries will see him because of the hostile environment policy and when russia generation and public policy in the u.k.

to be changed as a result you girls are a beneficial process for public policy makers in the u.k. sadly i think that it was true woods changing and. sort of. enabling a climate where more honorable discussion could take place and put aside some of our difficult years as colonizers i think that i can say that they've been one of the debates in the lords i actually said and i highlighted you know that our foreign secretaries lack of diplomacy when he mentioned in a meeting that you know it may be seen as our a should be colonise asia number two or whatever it is disgraceful so i think we had to do quite a lot of work and some of these international organization had to make you know do with what he had said as president to say no we have a long history in many countries in the wild and we have a very important place for us what is very small now you know it's a global world and we need to work together so your argument would be the sort of

soft the policy is rather more effect of the the sharp and sometimes unfortunate phrase i think is much more significant than phrase who historically we've been. used to working in such a way that you know we have this government to government relationship and then we've set out organizations like commonwealth parliament. the british council some of the larger n.g.o.s to do the soft power a bit but we've never recognized them in public so you know whenever in debates or in the public arena we're all too quick to criticize these organizations saying they're not accountable when we really need is that they have made sure the government work becomes absolutely integrated in what they do and we've got to try and make sure that you know no. strategy no government strategy calls funding backed by one of your great campaigns usually has been on the overseas

students and you seem to give those almost a disconnect between the policy which generates such goodwill of students being educated in this country. being liberal scotland across these islands but secondly the government's hostile attitude to the number of overseas students so what do you be doing with your campaign to try and change the government's mind i think must be stated categorically we mustn't select where those children comes from so we mustn't say for instance only tiny students are good enough only indian students are good enough we must say also russian students you know students from pakistan bangladesh you know all the other countries that can really you know make sure that they contribute to the diaspora community that is already very vibrant in britain so your message the government is get a couple of overseas students and demonstrate you're really interested in international influence completely change the script which is my verdict i have to take every opportunity of saying it i think that what we must say now in an open

global way that we mustn't talk about it and one way in the media and do something completely different we have to be concise and you know this is. really say that we value these organizations and they globally. thank you so much for the interview it's always a pleasure. and i'm from the house of lords to the house of commons i'm about to speak to. another parliamentarian hugely active in these organizations promoting international cooperation. a member of the parliamentary union you farm the international development select committee and of course the major different offices in your constituency porton do you think it's generally called soft. and international relations thank you stream liam forth and i know you from posting parliamentarians to the u.k. parliament and they were saying bilateral discussions on generations west something

that there was full and sustained even the most difficult times when perhaps political difficulties arise if you have those bilateral relationships over time then. she can rely on to try to negotiate a way forward. with the states tweak something offensive two o'clock in the morning on the international media jumps could actually have a role for these long term relationships instant media and constant insults well you know the media is one aspect but behind are the relationships that parliaments to parliament over a lengthy history piece of time and those ships are born just. on prior working agreements their belts and sustainability and those are the ones that despite and state media reactions both sustain over time you see when you're

approaching the commonwealth countries where so many of them for example still have what we would think it was repressive legislation on gay rights it is a subject you are able to discuss openly. taped off by in case people take offense i think is important hire perhaps and ministers from different countries would find it difficult to discuss those sorts of issues in the public domain parliamentarians parliamentarian which are the types of issues that can be discussed and countries are very anxious to to really cut ways forward the house works in other areas and then to china to and to trick us in their own country and make sure that nothing happens you have championed the point. of national income going to international development and of course the defense major offices in your own constituency share. a regular participant in the different programs are a great deal about can you point to because this project is often

a challenge to the real effect of these development programs to my constituents are very supportive of deficits in the constituency but not just because it's in the states and said we know what it is doing such valuable work and to nationally getting disabled children into skill and seeing the smile on their faces is worthwhile on that with talk on the heartstrings of of any conception across united kingdom a pretty energetic tabloid press campaign against international development budget is still being sustained at the present moment are you confident that the cross party support for it will be enough to to maintain that position in the it budget but it is important it's important times of eradicating poverty that sixty my important in terms of stability and the world and if we can try to create stability jobs and livelihoods for people and other countries then issues such as migration a search are lessons and those are issues that the government also is higher ties

and i'll be able to feel the urge to as you champion the cause of of soft problem solve them for was to just stop shouting at each other stop the sky sing over the the long. can you see a change in the environment. or the advantages of these long term relationships yeah i mean it can be frustrating at times when people take very polarized possessions but pushing with it the way forward is that is the middle path often but as a psychologist standing up to people doesn't often. to your own type of thinking so is about reasoning is about getting people inside inspect pragmatism i think going forward and as a psychologist you ever feel like tweeting but to the president of the united states. no i haven't thought of a treaty so the first you know if the united states as a psychologist i think i'm quite concerned by the level of abuse and trolling female in particular parliamentarians in the u.k.

and actually we've done some work on not through the end to parliamentary union israel and westminster foundation for democracy and you'll continue to champion the cause of soft power as does overall yes i think it's extremely important it works behind the scenes but it's often what is effective and what works over the long term a member and some national delegation is what should be a part of the particular residence when people find a member of parliament from scott will most definitely it's often the case that delegates will come up to me and say that they have a board already with scotland they've studied in scotland this child in scotland perhaps a peanuts andras university aberdeen are possible they maintain this. with scotland and they want to increase the bilateral relations which is really important for scotland both of them thank you very much. in the studio. coming up after the break we look from the theseus soft power to the practice and

specifically tie these initiatives have impacted on the key commonwealth country of pakistan as we speak to the iran and the russia with the then. when we were doing stuff for the russell brand you know we highlighted one of the payday lenders in the u.k. and they in fact closed up shop and that was very effective but it's one of the most pernicious and ugliest and underhanded way to destroy

a society is by alleging a they blunders you know exploit the fact that they can get away with two thousand three thousand fourteen thousand dollars thirty percent a year interest. to emerge in the decades after the war a nazi don't tour was still active rich in a not in seventies cretonne had as the chair of its board a man convicted of mess murder and slavery. a german company told developed solidified a drug that was promoted as completely safe even during bring them to you it turned out to have terrible side effects what has happened to my baby is anything but. you know she said is just good choice minix a little mind victims i have to this day they received no compensation they never apologized for the suffering their not only want the money i want the revenge.

yeah. we see that. in the end for each. of these. little if anything you get lucy. welcome back and now for the second part of our program and soft palate and the organizations which the ploy it we're going to turn the focus to one country pakistan and examine the impact on that country i'm speaking to. for both the british and the westminster foundation for democracy. you worked for a number of years as the country of the westminster foundation for democracy what

was the main area of your work. and it's first of all thank you very much for inviting to this your. book my work with this mr foundation for democracy was more focus on sporting and stenting parliamentary performances in pakistan and linking pakistani parliament with a u.k. parliament and your scottish parliament we were working a number of countries and we have been linking those parliamentary experiences between pakistani parliament and those parliament i'm a former board member of the west first of a nation and i think i'd be true to say that across the political parties the board members were very concerned the wouldn't programs which would be seen as preaching to people or say to the westminster system was was perfect and beyond reproach but rather to support the do you think. managed effectively in pakistan to

get across to support the idea with. being at the holier than thou than saying westminster the mother of parliaments was perfect the specifications of experience in provoking in pakistan it was more like widely accepted because she has the same common values commonwealth and westminster parliament to democracy system but at the same time as you're mentioning you're right in mentioning that. like telling other parliaments what to do is something which is not acceptable to the integrity of pakistani parliament as then i remember i was there in the scottish parliament two thousand and fourteen and we had some great learning from the way committee systems but we're thinking of the scottish pakistan relations. tell me how you felt pakistan plan. as working particularly the emphasis on education

and also in women's participation in politics pakistani citizens have very much respected image of scottland and especially. because like they are they are like getting now well educated so so they are much more focusing on their education and that's why there are certain opportunities for the pakistani you to get benefit from the amazing education of scottish institutions women empowerment was not the thirty year ago and now we see in every sphere of life in pakistan you had a woman prime minister before scotland yes we have the woman speaker of the nation somebody the first a woman speaker of the countries at the same time i must share my parliament experiences. just like in two thousand and seventeen eighteen we have twenty percent women parliamentarian and the country voted fifty percent of the parliament of business so their choice how serious they are and. pakistan has gone some very

good problem unless nation as well but that does not mean that everything is like at the moment is very very rosy. for the woman in pakistan scott was connections with pakistan legion of course i remember i was in the commonwealth games twenty four team there was a difficulty with the the pakistan bowling team terms of the formulation so the very last minute the cold. a couple of chico and ali from from glasgow to represent pakistan in the very last minute they had to the pakistan team and were actually beating the favorites to stray if we flew the first but of course there was no fear a tale ending to the get of a good. very close can ship and family connections between scott and pakistan like there are certain cooperation areas which. i think that was a part of scottish government's policy as well and. one such area was this in

a few sector and water sector right now pakistan is facing a great challenge in terms of water management that is getting one of the water stressed countries and there should be serious crisis in next ten years so i think again water and energy. can be like these kind of support. those of us a great natural advantages but water technology and has one of the relatively few publicly owned but extremely water companies in the world which gives a certain advantage will it's contributing to the international international development yes and one final thing which i would like to highlight is that this bilateral cleared because pakistan since two thousand and fourteen is having this huge e.s.p. plus status we are like the father you are union to all access to the pakistani market and bucks any market can sell their products through your union rights which is the all consuming issue in the west from still parliament the british politics.

the impact on public discourse in pakistan the common perception in pakistan is there is a market economy and like this trade relationship between the union that's going to be in the benefit of the rest of the world as well. somehow like see that like this breaks it impact is not only going to impact the economy but it's going to impact the economy is that pakistan view britain's membership of the european union or certainly the european single market place as effectively a gate of entry for pakistan for britain into the way the european marketplace was an aspect that terms of the economic relationship and most of the pakistanis they believe that this single market economy was going to be beneficial for the pakistan . israel to live like have this common market where they can come inside and once

but isn't coming out of there of course because as i've already mentioned that these people are status if you are out of the union then this just replaced it as is not going to work and a box on has to build those kind of buy later trade agreements have a relationship that you can that's going to impact a lot but with the common market economy i think i was getting some great benefit out of the hour you're a lawyer by profession as pakistani politics is dominated by the legal profession as british both. yes we have some great lawyers who are working in the parliament so yes it's not dominated but yes there are certain great lawyers who are in the parliament and in the key government positions so we would say well that's a good for a bad thing. thank you so much for the interview just before you go i want to

present you with a queer which is the scots go late for a loving cup you know that usually traditionally the scot which was good the quick and low but other soft drinks are available could be brew could even be diet coke but for probably thanks indeed for the well thank you very much alex thank you ali thank you thank you. so part of course can be used in a number of ways not least innovation. maybe anybody diaspora to exist across the island i'm delighted to be joined by zara shah the chief executive officer and trustee of the british heart foundation welcome to the alec family like you were having me tell us a bit about the british accent foundation for the british rock sound foundation is a social enterprise it's a nonprofit secular bipartisan community building that was founded in two thousand and ten and provides an opportunity to professionally develop and support entrepreneur. amongst a one point five million british box on these in the u.k. so of course it well across you kate many in scotland and all contributing

extremely well to the court to me to find that the setting up of this foundation which has many supporters has engaged british overseas pakistanis who have come here with the wider indigenous community as well i would say it has the one way we have done it through creating professional forums such as for law and medicine finance on tribunal's and by offering mentoring and in turn chips and opportunities for people to network interact not with just members of the british pakistani community but the wider community and kind of share and celebrate the best of their culture find that the rich parts and find has a role to play in engaging soft power definitely because we have influence within the diaspora and also through the diaspora in pakistan as well we will close it with a pox on high commission and we've been working closely supporting the u.k. government both the foreign office and the commonwealth summit the u.k. department of trade the home office building stronger britain together program and the department of communities and local government and

a number of your projects took my took my interest funders in relation to women and young people tell us a bit about that so under the women's program we have various initiatives we run a leadership program in london the first focus on communication in assertiveness skills what we discovered is a lot of british. women from the think minority background there's a bit of a conflict within their own culture of bringing which kind of teaches them to be more you know sometimes subservient and in the workplace they're meant to be very assertive so that was there was some cultural barriers there that women faced currently running an entrepreneurship program for the most disadvantaged b m e women and british box on the women in birmingham at the center and that was very fulfilling we launched the program in may and we had a initial workshop this month and it was great to see you know a lot of enthusiasm for a lot of these ladies have never had. these opportunities you do have various setups and then your organization where people from say the medical profession

legal profession women can mix and meet with each other definitely because they want the lack of positive role models for such as yourself you know women who kind of out there engaging participating or fifty percent of british box money women don't vote is very important for them to understand their role and how they can have a say in you know shaping the political future right now especially with backside and all of these you know challenges that via facing now of course you have the support the u.k. government the home office and you're in day five on the pakistan high commission which is excellent do you find that they have you have a good working relationship and how does it what's it like to be a british pakistani. i'm very proud to be a british box on the i'm proud to be british and i'm proud to be fox on the i think that vantage is that you can take the best of both cultures and in that way you add the most value to commute to society in this country i do feel that we would love the government to support more we always need more support to be able to expand because a well established in london we know trying to expand our programs are there much

needed in bradford leeds glasgow manchester and birmingham and the conduit with all the support of the government set a shot thank you very much indeed thank you god i mean thank you night over to alex a few years back i was in a meeting in the leadership compound in beijing with of them chinese foreign minister it was an important meeting not least of which because the u.k. was in the doctors and the hadn't been any zone and hardly a meeting with any minister of any description from the u.k. for some considerable time. halfway through the meeting the the foreign minister. but i thought he should accept the offer of an on a degree from these. the london school of economics. i said of course you should the foreign minister should go to london. for good measure but the point about the story is this evening. then connections of education and culture can cut through

more conventional diplomacy might well feel. like the united kingdom should abandon any attempt to project power and often instead more education a cultural exchange is not totally doesn't mean. it's not totally again but it's difficult to the conclusion that countries compete to. be fundamentally more attractive in rather than one of their countries compete in the number of missiles that can balance the nuclear sub believe. that conclusion that the balance of expenditure of the united kingdom is out of kilter and that more use of more soft power might want to the benefit of a song and so from myself and all of the team. it's good bye for now.

the new global economic war is unfolding in the realm of education the right to education as being supplanted by the right to access education loans higher education is becoming just another product that can be bolton sold but it's not just about education anymore it's also about running a business and what you're good in them almost a version. of this also the kind of fellow we're going to meet. want is the place of students in this business model before college and more now on an extremely more

higher education the new global economic war.

you know world of big part of a. lot of things and conspiracy it's time to wake up to dig deeper to hit the stories that made stream media refuses to tell more than ever we need to be smarter we need to stop slamming the door on the shouting past each other it's time for critical thinking it's time to fight for the middle for the truth the time is now for watching closely watching the hawks.

see. communicating with your adversary even here in the week even your did leave us with is a good idea but i think a lot of americans this understand the extent to which the ways in which we use to communicate for example where there are military operations in syria or even about the baltics would lean as they do they're making a bunch of misunderstandings at the end of which you could be in a catastrophic war which would be crazy for russia would be crazy for us. for man are sitting in a car when the phipps gets shot in the head. all four different versions of what happened one of them is on the death row there's no way he could have done it there's no possible way because the us did not

shoot around a corner. the trump once again flip flops rush's alleged meddling in the twenty sixteen presidential election branding it true. in a television interview. i would say that that is true the. ill informed and wild speculation in security minister dismisses media reports police have identified the perpetrators of the script attack. is under pressure is called beating a protester to the ground.