invited him to beijing jane i'm going to china says that she will keep a hold of a friendly posting with no matter what international or domestic situation changes in sudan this posting why be changed meanwhile britain once president bashir in an international court the i.c.c. not even recognized by the united states to secretary of state is just expressed support for bilateral relations with sudan on my compares vision is definitely not the way some in hollywood see it the governor of sudan led by omar al bashir. harun and defense minister hussain the same three men who orchestrated the atrocities in darfur have turned their bombs on the new people these are not military targets. is there in this in men women and children yes actor george clooney there making allegations that are denied by the sudanese government for bashir spot he is on the record for blaming nato nations for a policy of sanction divide and rule so his government can never fully exploit his

nation's potential i want to go. down a little it. was actually good to. see. you. get the. you know this is. going to be. well going underground has never been able to get anyone to represent sudan from the sudanese embassy in london but we can now get the perspective of a leader of the sudanese opposition the former prime minister of sudan said he comedy is head of the national party any mom of the suv the sex of unthaw and he's chair of the opposition alliance sudan call prime minister welcome to going underground the british government of course enforces sanctions against john lee once president bashir in the hague but egypt sudan becoming more friendly what do you make of the basically that is no potential from between the two and cairo

because in cairo muslim brothers are terrorists in heart of whom they are part that . this is the. post secondly they are indifferent. access relations to me and i consider hugh with their key. and egypt is on the other side so there is no potential for agreement but because of certain imperatives in terms of. things like that they keep up pretenses i think that is no more than a public relations exercise. yeah because we are talking about one of the most mineral and channel resource rich countries in the world with when we speak of sudan just tell our viewers what sudan call is you're the chair of the well basically as you well know sudan is ruled by it which came to power through

a coup data and is really administering continuous crises for thirty years for thirty years president bashir denies the suppose and says he is a good leader come here they are in complete crisis sudan call is a group. so they need political forces. who would like to see if the sudan from this. crisis we have two alternative means of doing so one is we have signed through the african mediation side it would map we want the implementation of that road map if it is implemented we think we can reach an agreement like the cordis or south africa of nineteen ninety two alternatively we are prepared to mobilize people for an uprising like the sudan spring the third sudan spring anyone visiting khartoum's is massive construction around the

blue nile the sparkling new city mass is a chinese investment and bashir has claimed that you don't call your organization is funded by the cia and most rubbish. in fact so that what you are doing does intersect with the aims and means we don't like today or the means of the cia trying to do business with khartoum and they have got this hard on process in which they engage the fact is that president sudan call is an autonomous pathologic organization that is seeking a way out for sudan was the british back creation helped the british back supported anyway creation of south sudan where the oil is in this country of sudan because that was not a terrible thing for sudan the bigger sudan as it were i know they're coming to an

agreement resigning to more well even this it is without the khartoum of one nine hundred eighty nine the south would not have separated the coup because of its definition of sudan's identity as islamic and arabic ruled out the south so it has played. indi separation of the cells thirty years of this failure is responsible for what to us here at and in fact we think that the international community all of the international community should help us find a soft landing in fact through you channel we addressed the russian federation we think the russian federation instead of being party them to. relations with the sudan government they should support the saddam people not as appreciated went and told the president. to support him

because he's being threatened there are various but supporters of president bashir say he's never been more popular i mean he's going to he says he's going to step down in twenty twenty i don't know whether you believe all of this is they say these things or you know dictator said his things as public relations but he has been there for thirty years all the parameters of failure on his shoulders but he's been elected no wish. elections that mean nothing if there is no freedom the press is not free all the national media under government's control there's nothing you can no government denies the press is no free and journalism there and some of the local cartoon you know is that of course they deny that but ira tax unless you're in the newspapers every day you see someone say not only has bashir made a deal with salva kiir conceded a few years back backed by the united states and britain in there helping to create

south sudan cut human juber made friends and militaries are both working together to protect the oil resources on that perhaps strategic deals with egypt bashir there shaking the hands of putin trump appearing now to oppose. certainly the white house in the past few days they have doubts about it but she was kind of winning. bashir is in a league with the opposition in the cells and some fucking said as much this president has made a deal with reactor which are years of course but it will not work with his number five it will not work because it is being. said of aid it is being looked over by people who are not genuine in their commitment there is a very very clear when he visited sudan recently he said as much he said we know that under the desk you are supporting my opposition ok some may

remember after the aspirin factory was bombed by clinton in ninety four for was a big story alleged genocide it was darfur region here a medium. which some allege was actually more part of the story yemen is a strategic place guarding the red sea what do you think of sudan's policy on yemen and what do you think of britain arming and training to bomb yemen knows all this and we think this is something that is making ups commit suicide against each other sudan's proper role is to reconcile the parties conflicting in yemen rather than participating in this matter why is president bashir. supporting the bombing of yemen the british back bombing we think it's the medicine it enterprise we don't think it has any national sudanese backing the north's national sudanese position is that we should stop police force and in order to help our own saudi brothers we

should help them find a peaceful way out of this conflict because this conflict cannot be won by any side you you met the deputy foreign minister here in britain did you mention it is of course we will i mean we study what we said but we think that sudan's role is not excited because this war is not winnable by any side it will simply be. mutual destruction ok we're just finally the. political that way because president bush here is yet to respond to what you're saying there is a dangerous for donald trump to threaten to destroy and annihilate the country of iran as he has done with mr trump says these things he used he said to more than quote he that he can wipe it off and he. gives the state it's quite irresponsible because we think. actually a more responsible iran has gone into an agreement with the six nations and this

agreement has been supported by the security council so it is an international convention you cannot do this and then come and say we will destroy this that. and all america had in the us will be threatened by any such move the hope that this would be rectified by all the other bins the chinese the russians did it to fight this it is possible to talk former prime minister thank you after the break by kids we speak to of all the police officer it's been fourteen years on the cover about the dangers of britain's so-called juvenile covertly human intelligence sources and from the headlines labor walks as shaky line on the anti semitism while britain's opposition to the death penalty dies on its feet. coming up in part two of going on the ground.

to. look. now you can. do it at the cool war. that's a given that it's really naive if you. will first of all it's only about the working on the other. four will be one of them i'll be my columns on the wall.

you'll move on to. the pleasures funds it's guaranteed returns that those being abused by the crooks are in the county to shovel it a lot of toxic garbage that is ending up is accounted no because at the end of the day a lot of these pension accounts not being cut back people who think that they had a passion are being told there's been run out you're out of touch any more you're now flat broke you have to go out in the street and beg for money go get addicted to heroin we don't want you anymore drop dead. join me every thursday on the alex simon show and i'll be speaking to guest in the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

welcome back to go through some of the papers now is a book astra for the liberal democrats and we don't pick them it g.d.p. quarter two figures out probably not as good as the figures coming from the brics nations are meeting in south africa today but no doubt that our g.d.p. growth is partly to do with our arms trading and trading with israel arming israel to tell tale that oh that's good let's go to the reuters this is actually relevant to the option reuters report israel hamas gaza truce largely holds after flare up that's not good for trade maybe not maybe not but it might be good for saving lives because in incredibly short order the tense peace became a very violent situation where israeli soldiers were attacked and i think there were some deaths there and then israel hit back by hitting sixty eight hamas targets this was a violent how do you know that others are good because the international red cross or thirteen thousand dead or wounded u.n.

sixteen thousand dead or wounded for gene march thirty of them to july seventh between two thousand six hundred children of all the figures a huge massive collateral damage with civilians a lateral damage that's what it's called and have a you have innocence involved but the israelis say well these individuals were directly protesting and this goes right back to various demonstrations along the border there it's a big mess and it looks like there's a truce now both sides seem to be holding to it but this can fall apart not in just days but in minutes there's also a political play here trumps administration are suggesting that the united nations is becoming more critical of hamas and blaming hamas for this sort of trouble now that comes from washington we'll be talking to a senior member of hamas on saturday's show but arguably remember the labor party don't like the look of the well yes the times mentions corben aid seamus milne told to take back his attacks on israel now this is a fine line the thin line between criticizing israel and ninety seven to. now this

anti second coming in line is a big lie and they think well but it's not really because the issue here is can you criticize israel without being accused of being anti semitic using i think it's really difficult i think that what they've done here some of it may be anti-semitic certainly internal debate with in the late game is milne is being anti-semitic well . the truth is throughout the arab muslim and wider developing world the idea that israel is a racist stage is largely or comment on controversial created by european column is to build on the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population you know believe or well i think you should be able to say it i have a slightly different take on it but that doesn't necessarily make him and he semitic and this this is the fine line i'm talking about what can you say about israel and can you say as much in terms of criticism when it comes to israel as you can about other nation states i don't think so and labor's kind of particularly over we can say whatever we lost what well then you get accused of anti-semitism and that's one of the issues for labor this is

a real weak area for labor anyway they've been repeatedly accused of anti semitism the reason the sticks is because it happens internally labor activists and senior members of the labor party have accused labor of being anti semitic so so in that sense even if samus milne was on the right side of that debate it was well the director of communications for jeremy get obviously a very senior voice leading in the opinion polls were a landslide maybe but that doesn't take away from the fact that labor have to be really careful in this area because from a completely pragmatic point of view what others might be able to say by way of constructive criticism of israel is seen as destructive self-criticism because labor's anti semitic ok but i mean when you give those british policy i think you're insulting our sovereign majesty that i don't think she's too involved in this particular story so i'm just talking about insulting countries there's going to there's a good story yesterday's white paper talking about security concerns and how the need to keep countries we're importing people about and well wait to see who it is

the guardian reports u.k. greece to take in some white helmets. evacuated from syria by israel now the white house have a rather mecurio relationship with the media on the one side they're portrayed as the great do gooders who have saved one hundred fifteen thousand lives something like that on the other side they're accused of being a propaganda weapon and that they are everything that they've been being allowed to al-qaeda which they do deny but they deny it but others have said quite unequivocally that there is a relationship there and that's make that's makes whitehall was rather complicated and to take do i trust the white house has no not completely there been several examples of what you might call fabricated fake news to use a trump as an associate of the white helmets and they're beating a retreat at the moment because they don't feel safe in the environment they've been fighting in their mail online let's move on to this to resume a back subject of it of a death penalty for the isis people's pm supports home secretary's secret letter dismissing need for assurances that new tourist to how these won't be executed in

the u.s. a very long way of saying that we're going soft on opposing the death you are going to be in grow the death penalty this is greater britain is now going to outsource all its just as to the united states where they know what to do not for the first time we did have a little bit of a passing involvement with special rendition and guantanamo cuba early outsourced things to russia where they don't have a death penalty we quite clearly have not got the death penalty in this country but the commentary here from the one of the most senior members of the british government suggest that we also know the home secretary that we relaxed about if these individuals actually get murdered there's some fluff in here about saying well we hope it's going to be a life sentence instead of examining allegorical that of the death penalty has been and i think so it's quite clear as well where it says that they're not seeking assurances that the death penalty will not be used and just just to be clear this is not the death penalty as in britain's assassination drone strikes which have

killed british citizens and ever get this is when there are a prisoner. they can be in the end of the wager in a way you could argue this is a more honest approach to the death penalty then simply killing someone without a trial and without any due process out in the desert so maybe you should regard this as progress here and certainly isis will be able to celebrate their marchers with great fanfare no better big thank you. so you came in already government leader drazen may appears to be turning our back on decades of u.k. opposition to the death penalty by outsourcing justice and now it's been reported that u.k. espionage is being outsourced to children joining me now is a former police officer it spent fourteen years under cover of the years of fighting crime on the streets neil woods is now chairman of law enforcement action partnership his new book drug wars is out now neal thanks for coming on going underground against a one child by is arguably too many but as a undercover officer who was doing it for fourteen years were you aware that

children were being used for law enforcement was aware of children being used as informants occasionally and rarely and i mean i was even aware of it as a detective but there's a great difference between receiving information from from somebody. who's crossing up one of his older brother's mates for being folding car crime or something like dart to actually being allowed to remain in a car and been feeding information from going now i know that from how the news story broke i am sort of deducing how this thing is working to a certain extent but the fact that the police are asking for an extension from one month to four months does sort of suggest for emplaced children who are informing yes yes exactly that sort of suggests that this has been a request fed up from winds which indicates suggest to me that this is happening already it's not just gangs because it is terrorism as a world so what risk of harm are we talking about when these children are being

persuaded. to infiltrate groups to be honest i would suggest that put talking about it being terrorists terrorism as well that's a slight amount of spend because the use of police informants is ninety five percent about drugs. the growth of it as a tactic is about investigating drug offenses and if you for an adult informant who perhaps might be starting a presence in a police cell. can't face five years in prison but wants to decide who's going to pass an information on to a police officer what that person is thinking is who are my least scared of because organized crime drugs organized crime response to the use of informants is to increase the level of terror so the idea of actually having that dynamic play out with children amongst drug gangs is terrifying i am filtrated one going who were using rape as a just intimidation they would rape. girlfriends or rate of the people if they suspected them of being an informant of the beliefs it was about blanket terror

gangs developed their reputation in order to be the most successful gang because that's what stops them being grassed up so they would rape someone and in response for an outstanding drug debt but really the message was this is what we're capable of so when british authorities decide to use children one of the dangers because i know you you could have lost your loaf being in that form of being an infiltrator is that yes as an economic or officer i certainly had several near death experiences. but i've been threatened with a samurai sword with knives in various occasions stripped at gunpoint and you know you hear some of the information certainly from organizations like the children society they report the kind of things that's going on to children involved these gangs already they are being forced to carry drugs in their rectum they're being intimidated and filmed in compromising situations that the level of intimidation that already exists is quite horrific and that should be enough information to to

say to say that there is no policing solution to this and to ramp up the violence even more by using child informants is just the wrong way to go now i have to point out most people who have commented on this topic have rightly talked about the human rights and protecting the individual child involved a child who may be chosen to employ trait a gag that's a legitimate point and i agree completely but we have to look at this in a bra. discerns the use of child informants like this will make it more dangerous for effie child exploiters because it will increase the violence and exploitation for africa single one because since the gangsters and they will know who they will know they'll get each day they are not stupid. they will know that this is happening and they will increase the violence as a result i've had some criticism actually from some former place officers for talking about this topic and pointing it out and even describing how it might work as if i was in cry i was bringing the danger about by describing this but the only

way you can actually protect those children is to remove him from exploitation and the only way you can prevent this exploitation is by regulating the drugs market. used to demand debate when it comes to drugs you don't think children are being given drugs as payment to spy for british authorities no not at all no i'm sure that it's being handled the way they would have to use illegal narcotics to show they're part of the gang while they're spying on the gang well i'm sure that the police officers handling the children will have to will not be complicit in that at all and they will see it is being handled very professionally but it is accepted intelligence that part of the pay for these children in the work that they do i mean they do get paid but they also get access to free cannabis and i've heard that from many sources so by allowing children back into into that world you're allowing that to continue when you were undercover did you have to take drugs to show that you were one of them nor

a police officer or not very often but if you did yes i mean at times when i when i was at risk is one particular time i had to take some very strong based on betterment and i knew that if i hadn't done that. i would have a reason for the suspicion. so i under the public some i'm fatman which was forty percent pure the average at the time was five percent i didn't i didn't sleep for three nights it was dreadful. experience mind you mouth think what would happen to a child if they were in the same situation today and prove that they were legit as it were yeah exactly how you have had p.t.s.d. since your undercover policing yes i do suffer from p.t.s.d. which which is something that you learn to manage it's not something that really really goes away. and what i have is complex p.t.s.d. it's caused by a long series of events rather than one particular about. that long series of events is being perpetually at risk. dealing with the now at the time i felt

invulnerable you know i never thought that years later i would actually suffer from this condition and occasional extreme anxiety it is a well known fact that the younger are more susceptible to p.t.s. day and if a child suffers it and it has much more long term risks and so there again we come back to this question should we really be allowing children to go into that kind of stress there is an inquiry into this sit on waiting been insulted by a barrister as it is an upper middle class white hillbilly gentleman whose life experience is a million miles away from these people and so you're going to be giving evidence the spike up scandal is a different thing to the children we're not talking about children we're talking about police officers infiltrating political organizations trade unions and london greenpeace and i'm glad you mention it because the should be more scrutiny about inquiry the meeting inquiry is astonishing in that the metropolitan police have refused to reveal even the cover names of certain people involved in that and

certainly from the perspective of an undercover police officer i mean that i know lots of undercover he did much more serious and complex work than i do it. but from my point of view the risks the thai took i find it astonishing that the mat cannot even provide the cover names of people who infiltrated organizations like london green pigs or trade unions as if it's too great a risk for them now i put in prison for over a thousand years and cumulative total genuine vicious people and here i am this is my real name and so it makes a farce of it i believe and i'm very pleased you mentioned it because where possible the public really should put pressure on the missing inquiry to have more scrutiny and to bear in mind this is a public inquiry and it's an important part of this important question about how we police are selves and what we should allow. so thank you for raising up neil woods

thank you that's it for the show will be back on saturday when we go to gaza to speak to how mass is former deputy foreign minister ahmed about the deaths of civilians in palestine following israel's largest air strike campaign since operation protective edge in twenty four to. twenty five years to the day of the death of marxist story in the war activists. can you think of a more intriguing story line one that includes an attractive russian woman money guns politics power and yes unfortunately for maria this is not a story line but her life at the moment is she the most recent victim of the west's phobia towards all things related to russia.

please. love. good. life. good. good food russia

sharing good. bad there is still some fear it's possible for groups of militants to go into houses and sloths entire families the islamic state terror group doubles the number of attacks in iraq a government security advisers say is the state media that is trying to avoid chronic by keeping quiet about the true level of violence. the number of lysol kidnappings to search through the schematic now the special forces do not have enough resources to run the routes and style of of those they're hiding out so most mountainous areas of. the us media and politicians lash out at the idea of a second summit between donald trump and saddam may appear to despise a recent poll suggesting most americans are in favor of closer ties. and stay.