you know even recognized by the united states who secretary of state has just expressed support for bilateral relations with sudan on my compares vision is definitely not the way some in hollywood see it the governor of sudan led by omar al bashir. the defense minister saying the same three men who orchestrated the atrocities in daraa four have turned their bombs on the people these are not military targets these are innocent men women and children yes actor george clooney there making allegations that are denied by the sudanese government for bashir spot he's on the record for blaming nato nations for a policy of sanction divide and rule so his government can never fully exploit his nation's potential and what i'm going to get friendly with on a little bit is. actually going to. be. a good thing. you know this is

a little it may have been going to be. well going on the ground has never been able to get anyone to represent sudan from the sudanese embassy in london but we can now get the perspective of a leader of the sudanese opposition the former prime minister of sudan said he comedy is head of the national party any mom of the sunni sect of unthaw and he's chair of the opposition alliance saddam call prime minister welcome to going underground the british government of course enforces sanctions against john that once president bashir in the hague but egypt and sudan becoming more friendly what do you make of there is no potential from between the two and cairo because in cairo muslim brotherhood out of terrorists in heart of whom they are part of that. this is the. post secondly they are indifferent. access relations how to meet an accessory with turkey.

and egypt is on the other side so there is no potential for agreement but because of certain imperatives in terms of trade and things like that they keep up pretenses i think but is no more than public lesions exercises yeah because we are talking about one of the most mineral and channel resource rich countries in the world with when we speak of sudan just tell our viewers what sudan call is you're the chair of well basically are you know sudan is ruled by it which came to puerto rico data and is really administering continuous crises for thirty years for thirty years president bashir denies there is a cause and says he is a good leader come here they are in complete crisis sudan called is a group of. sudanese political forces. who would like to see if the

sudan from this. crisis we have to alternative means of doing so one is we have signed through the african mediation side it would map we want the implementation of that road map if it is implemented we think we can reach an agreement like the cordis or south africa of nineteen ninety two alternatively we are prepared to mobilize people for an uprising like the sudan spring the third sudan's bring anyone visiting khartoum sees massive construction around the blue nile the sparkling new city mass is a chinese investment and bashir has claimed that you don't call your organization is funded by the cia and most rubbish published in fact that what you are doing

does intersect with the aims and means we do in iraq today real terms and means of the cia trying to do business with how do and they have got this hard on process in which they engage the fact is that present sudan call is an autonomous pathologic organization that is seeking a way out for sudan was the british back creation helped the british back supported anyway creation of south sudan where the oil is in this country of sudan because that was not a terrible thing for sudan the bigger sudan as it were i know they're coming to an agreement resigning to more well even this it is without the khartoum of one nine hundred eighty nine the south would not have separated the coup because of its definition of sudan's identity as islamic and arabic ruled out the south so

it has played. a great rule indi separation of the self thirty years of this failure is responsible for what with us here at and in fact we think that the international community all of the international community should help us find a soft landing in fact through you channel we addressed the russian federation we think the russian federation instead of being party them to. relations with the sudan government they should support the saddam people not as a shield went and told the president. to support him because he's being threatened there are various but supporters of president bashir say he's never been more popular i mean he's going to he says he's going to step down in twenty twenty i don't know whether you believe all of this is they say these things or you know dictator said his things as public relations but

he has been there for thirty years all the parameters of failure are on his shoulders but he's been elected no wish. those are. elections that mean nothing if there is no freedom the press is not free all the national media under government's control there's nothing you can no government denies the press is no free and journalism there and some of the local in khartoum unusual is that of course they deny that but ira tax unless you're in the newspapers every day you see someone say not only has bashir made a deal with silva here considered a few years back back by the united states and britain in there helping to create south sudan because human juber made friends and militaries are both working together to protect the oil resources on that perhaps strategic deals with egypt bashir there shaking the hands of putin trump appearing now to oppose.

certainly the white house in the past few days they have doubts about it. but she was going to win it. bashir is in a league with the opposition in the south and some fucking said as much this president has made a deal with react much o. years of course but it will not work it is number five it will not work because it is being. said of aid that is being looked over by people who are not genuine in their commitment there's a very very clear when he visited sudan recently he said as much he said we know that under the desk you are supporting my opposition ok some may remember after the aspirin factory was bombed by clinton in ninety four for was a big story alleging genocide was darfur region here a medium. which some allege was actually more part of the story yemen is a strategic place guarding the red sea what do you think of sudan's policy on yemen

and what do you think of britain arming and training to bomb yemen is all this and we think this is something that is making ups commit suicide against each other sudan's proper role is to reconcile the parties conflicting in yemen rather than participating in this matter why is president bush. supporting the bombing of yemen the british back bombing we think it's an imaginary enterprise we don't think it has any national sudanese backing the north national sudanese position is that we should stop these wars and in order to help our own saudi brothers we should help them find a peaceful way out of this conflict because this conflict cannot be won by any side you you met the deputy foreign minister here in britain did you mention he is of course we want to say well i mean we study what we said but we think that sudan's

role is not excited because this war is not between. it would simply be mutual destruction ok we're just finally the. political way because president bush here is yet to respond to what you're saying there is a dangerous for donald trump to threaten to destroy and annihilate the country of iran as he has done well mr trump says these things he used he said to more than quote he that he can wipe it off and he. gives the state it's quite irresponsible because we think. a more responsible iran has gone into an agreement with the six nations and this agreement has been supported by the security council so it is an international convention you cannot do this and then come and say we will destroy this that. america. and all america had in their years will be

threatened by any such move the hope that this could be rectified by all the other europeans the chinese the russians did it to fight this it is possible to talk former prime minister thank you after the break by kids we speak to of all the police officer it's been fourteen years on the cover about the dangers of britain's so-called juvenile covertly you wouldn't teligent i'm from headlines labor works as shaky line on anti semitism while britain's opposition to the death penalty dies on its feet. coming up in part two of going on the ground. so. i've been saying the numbers mean this matter us is over one trillion dollars in debt more than ten point. five percent of.

all for bridge. each week six percent markets thirty percent this year some with four hundred to five hundred three per second per second and twenty rose to twenty thousand dollars. china's building two point one billion dollars industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only number you need to remember it was the one that showed you know for a minute the one and only. welcome back to go through some of the papers now is book astra for the liberal democrats and we don't pick them it g.d.p. quarter two figures out probably not as good as the figures coming from the brics

nations are meeting in south africa today but no doubt that our g.d.p. growth has partly to do with our arms trading and trading with israel arming israel to tell that oh let's go let's go to the reuters this is actually relevant reuters report israel hamas gaza truce largely holds out a flare up that's not good for trade maybe not maybe not but it might be good for saving lives because an incredibly short order the tense peace became a very violent situation where israeli soldiers were attacked and i think there were some deaths there and then israel hit back by hitting sixty eight hamas targets this was violent and you know that others are good because the international red cross says thirteen thousand dead or wounded u.n. sixteen thousand dead or wounded for gene march thirty of them to july seventh two thousand six hundred children of the figures a huge massive collateral damage with civilians a lateral damage that's what it's called and have a you have in a sense involved but the israelis say well these individua. we're directly

protesting and this goes right back to various demonstrations along the border there it's a big mess and it looks like there's a truce now both sides seem to be holding to it but this can fall apart not in just days but in minutes there's also a political play here trumps administration are suggesting that the united nations is becoming more critical of hamas and blaming hamas for this sort of trouble now that comes from washington we'll be talking to a senior member of hamas on saturday's show but arguably remember the labor party don't like the look of the well yes the times mentions corben aid seamus milne told to take back his attacks on israel now this is a fine line the thin line between criticizing israel and the anti semitism now this anti second coming in line is a big lie you may think well but it's not really because the issue here is can you criticize israel without being accused of being anti semitic and using i think it's really difficult i think that what labor's done here some of it may be anti-semitic

certainly internal debate with in the late game is milne is being anti semitic while. the truth is throughout the arab muslim and wider developing world the idea that israel is a racist stages of your comment on controversial created by european column is to build on the ethnic cleansing of the indigenous population you know believe or well i think you should be able to say it i have a slightly different take on it but that doesn't necessarily make him and he semitic and this is the fine line i'm talking about what can you say about israel and can you say as much in terms of criticism when it comes to israel as you can about other nation states i don't think so and labor's got a particularly over we can say whatever we learn or what well then you get accused of anti-semitism and that's one of the issues for labor this is a real weak area for labor anyway they've been repeatedly accused of anti semitism and the reason the sticks is because it happens internally labor activists and senior members of the labor party have accused labor of being anti semitic so so in that sense even if samus milne was on the right side of that to. the director of

communications for germany obviously a very senior voice leading in the opinion polls were a landslide maybe but that doesn't take away from the fact that labor have to be really careful in this area because from a completely pragmatic point of view what others might be able to say by way of constructive criticism of israel is seen as destructive self-criticism because labor's anti semitic ok but i mean when you criticize british policy i think you're insulting our sovereign majesty that i don't think she's too involved in this particular story actually i'm just talking about insulting countries there's going to there's a good story yesterday's white paper talking about security concerns and the need to keep countries we're importing being deliberately well wait to see who it is the guardian reports u.k. agrees to take in some white helmets evacuated from syria by israel now the white house have a rather mecurio relationship with the media on the one side they're portrayed as the great do gooders who have saved one hundred fifteen thousand lives something

like that on the other side they're accused of being a propaganda weapon and that they are everything that they've been being allowed to al-qaeda which they do deny but they deny it but others have said quite unequivocally that there is a relationship there and that's make that's makes whitehall was rather complicated and to take do i trust the white house has no not completely there been several examples of what you might call fabricated fake news to use a trump as an associate of the white helmets and they're beating a retreat at the moment because they don't feel safe in the environment they've been fighting in their mail online let's move on to this to resume a back subject of it of a death penalty for the isis people's pm supports home secretary's secret letter dismissing need for assurances that new tourist to how these won't be executed in the us a very long way of saying that we're going soft on opposing the death you want to improve the death penalty this is greater britain is now going to outsource all its justice to the united states where they know what to do not for the first time we did have a little bit of

a passing involvement with special rendition and granted. unlike you i really outsource things to russia where they don't have a death penalty we quite clearly have not got a death penalty in this country but the commentary here from one of the most senior members of the british government suggests that we also know the home secretary that we relaxed about if these individuals actually get murdered there's some fluff in here about saying well we hope it's going to be a life sentence instead it's everything allegorical that the death penalty has been and if i think so it's quite clear as well where it says that they're not seeking assurances that the death penalty will not speak used and just just to be clear this is not the death penalty as in britain's assassination drone strikes which have killed british citizens in any get this is when they are a prisoner they can be in the end of the wager in a way you could argue this is a more honest approach to the death penalty then simply killing someone without a trial and without any due process out in the desert so maybe you should regard this as progress yeah and certainly isis will be able to celebrate their marchers

with great fanfare let me go big thank you. so you came in already government leader drazen me appears to be turning our back on decades of u.k. opposition to the death penalty by outsourcing justice and now it's been reported that u.k. espionage is being outsourced to children joining me now is a former police officer it spent fourteen years under cover of the years of fighting crime on the streets neil woods is now chairman of law enforcement action partnership his new book drug wars is out now neal thanks for coming and going underground again so one child's by is arguably too many but as a undercover officer who was doing it for fourteen years were you aware the children were being used for law enforcement was aware of children being used as informants occasionally and rarely and i mean i was even aware of it as a detective but there's a great difference between receiving information from from somebody. who's crossing

one of his older brother's mates. for painting folding car crime or something like dart to actually being allowed to remain in a gang and feeding information from that gang now i know that from how the news story broke i am sort of deducing how this thing is working to a certain extent but the fact that the police are asking for an extension from one month or four months does sort of suggest four in place children who are informing yes yes exactly that does sort of suggest that this has been a request fed up from the winds which indicates suggest to me that this is happening already it's not just gangs it was is terrorism as a world so what risk of harm are we talking about when these children are being persuaded to infiltrate groups to be honest i would suggest that puts looking about are being terrorists terrorism as well that's a slight amount then because the use of police informants is ninety five percent about drugs that the growth of it as a tactic is about investigating drug offenses and if you from for an adult

informant who perhaps might be starting a presence in a police cell. can't face five years in prison but wants to decide who's going to pass an information on to a police officer what that person is thinking is who are my least scared of because organized crime drugs organized crime response to the use of informants is to increase the level of terror so the idea of actually having that dynamic play out with children amongst drug gangs is terrifying i am filtrated longer and they were using rape. as just intimidation they would rape. girlfriends or rate of the people if they suspected them of being an informant to the billet it was about blanket terror gangs develop their reputation in order to be the most successful gang because that's what stops them being grassed up so they would rape someone and in response for an outstanding drug debt but really the message was this is what we're capable of so when british authorities decide to use children one of the

dangers because i know you you could have lost your loaf being in that form of being an infiltrator is that yes as an economic or officer i certainly had several near death experiences. but i've been threatened with a samurai sword with knives in various occasions stripped at gunpoint and you know you hear some of the information certainly from organizations like the children society they report the kind of things that's going on to children involved these gangs already they are being forced to carry drugs in their rectum they're being intimidated and filmed in compromising situations that the level of intimidation that already exists is quite horrific and that should be enough information to to say to say that there is no policing solution to this and to ramp up the violence even more by using child informants is just the wrong way to go now i have to point out most people who have commented on this topic have rightly talked about the human rights and protecting the individual child involved

a child who may be chosen to employ trait or gag that's a legitimate point and i agree completely but we have to look at this in a bra. discerns the use of child informants like this will make it more dangerous for africa child exploitive because it will increase the violence and exploitation the referee single one because since the gangsters and they will know who they will know each day they are not stupid. they will know that this is happening and they will increase the violence as a result i've had some criticism actually from some former place officers for talking about this topic and pointing it out and even describing how it might work as if i was in cry i was bringing in the danger about by describing this but the only way you can actually protect those children is to remove him from exploitation and the only way you can prevent this exploitation is by regulating the drugs market. really is the demand debate when it comes to drugs you don't think children are being given drugs as payment to spy for british authorities know not to talk

now i'm sure that it's been how you draw the way they would have to use illegal narcotics to show they're part of the gang while they're spying on the gang well i'm sure that the police officers handling the children will have to will not be complicit in that at all and they will see it is being handled very professionally but it is accepted intelligence that part of the pay for these children in the work that they do i mean they do get paid but they also get access to free cannabis and i've heard that from many sources so by allowing children back into into that world you're allowing that to continue when you were undercover did you have to take drugs to show that you were one of them you know a police officer not very often but if you look it yes i mean at times when i when i was at risk is one particular time i had to take some very strong based on betterment and i knew that if i hadn't done then i would have a reason for the suspicion. so i ended up having some unflattering which was forty

percent pure the average at the time was five percent i didn't i didn't sleep for three nights it was a dreadful experience mind you my how think what would happen to a child if they were in the same situation to try and prove that they were legit there were yeah exactly how you have had bt as these since you were undercover policing. yes i do suffer from p.t.s.d. which which is something that you learn to manage it's not something that really really goes away and what i have is complex p.t.s.d. it's caused by a long series of events rather than one particular about. that long series of events is being perpetually at risk. dealing with the now at the time i felt invulnerable you know i never thought that years later i would actually suffer from this condition and occasional extreme anxiety it is a well known fact that the younger are more susceptible to p.t.s. day and if a child suffers than it has much more long term risks and so there again we come

back to this question should we really be allowing children to go into that kind of stress there is an inquiry into this sit on waiting been insulted by a barrister as it is an upper middle class white will be gentleman whose life experience is a million miles away from these people and so you're going to be giving evidence the spike up scandal is a different thing to the children we're not talking about children we're talking about police officers infiltrating political organizations trade unions and london greenpeace and i'm glad you mention it because the should be more scrutiny about that inquiry the meeting inquiry is astonishing in that the metropolitan police have refused to reveal even the cover names of certain people involved in that and certainly from the perspective of an undercover police officer i mean that i know lots of undercover he did much more serious and complex work than i do it. but from my point of view the risks the thai took i find it astonishing that the mat

cannot even provide the cover names of people who infiltrated organizations like london greenpeace or trade unions as if it's too great a risk for them now i put in prison for over a thousand years in cumulative total genuine vicious people and here i am this is my real name and so it makes a farce of it i believe and i'm very pleased you mentioned it because where possible the public really should put pressure on the met an inquiry to have more scrutiny. to bear in mind this is a public inquiry and it's an important part of it's an important question about how we police are selves and what we should allow. so thank you for raising. thank you for the show will be back on saturday when we go to gaza to speak former deputy foreign minister ahmed about the deaths of civilians in palestine following israel's largest air strike operation protective edge in twenty four to.

twenty five years to the day of the deadly marks of the story and the war activists . financial for my. first visit this three different. something in your something in america. cayman island you will all these banks are complicit in the. newsroom. ok let's see how we did. for my money laundering highly. record.

four man are sitting in a car when the phipps gets shot in the head. all four different versions of what happened one of them is on the death row there's no way he could have done it there's no possible way because the owners did not shoot around a corner. some for something on not. use indigenous people as you know we that the. people the trees. most politicians say that the only theory but yet you keep.

out of a sudden the man just. can't pull be ok with. i said i will enter it in if they will not allow me. if they will shoot me. i don't. mean you indeed i'm not i'm not picking on you menominee been thought to be how beautiful and funny your manana am i got by you got me it looking like i mean you got me i you. know i did not go out with the money to believe enough not to want to come out. under the bed i got into a lot of the war going on there. are you brought it up put up one of them to believe that was.

u.s. president postpones a second summit with president putin while the u.s. secretary of state is grilled over donald trump's dealings with the russian leader . donald trump and younger strike a deal to avert a trade war between the u.s. and the new. islamic state claims responsibility for a wave of terror in southern syria which has reportedly claimed the lives of at least two hundred fifteen. k. .