not wanting to rock the multicultural community bode if i may put it like that this has also come from the horse's mouth just quite a number of years ago there was a police report released under the freedom of information act in which the police themselves said often there was a reluctance or hesitancy to take the necessary action because precisely of the stoking of racial or ethnic tensions over the years the discussion about the racial ethnic background of perpetrators and victims of these crimes and that specific link has been quite to boot it's been discussed with a great hesitancy or been confined perhaps to the margins of the political spectrum now though with the home secretary's investigation given of course sergeant javal himself has pakistani roots that discussion seems to be going more mainstream. another part of the u.k.'s governance is be making headlines the public prosecutions office has a new boss manx hill a barrister one slammed by an m.p.

as a politically correct snowflake mr hill came into the spotlight when he was working as an independent review of u.k. terrorism laws some of which he argues should be scrapped he was slammed for meeting with the organization cage group which is widely seen as advocating islam ists that hill's own stance on you how this has been branded scandalously feeble by some of the u.k. media here's one of his statements that sparked controversy. really we should be looking towards reintegration and moving away from a notion that we're going to lose a generation due to this travel those who traveled out of the sands of neve possibly with some brainwashing on the way possibly in their meat teens we have to leave space for those individuals to be diverted away from the criminal courts. ok let's discuss maxwell's appointment now with a panel of guests i'd like to welcome to the program should be a political analyst on the left of our screens in the center philip ingram former intelligence and security officer and on the right my once our political and social

commentator good evening welcome gentlemen shabbir i'd like to ask you first what do you make of this appointment is maxiell the right person for this position. well look he's a lawyer and potentially he could be seen as the right person but i think one's got to look at it in the wider context that how easy going to handle the whole situation as we were talking about earlier in your report about integration and whether integration is effective in a multicultural society and what does integration in itself means does it mean assimilation completely does it mean that the immigrants who came here from different backgrounds should they completely be irrelevant to their upbringing i myself as a british muslim who grew up here from pakistani indian background i have i feel british i live here in london as

a londoner but the same time i'm very proud to be a muslim and also coming from a background from south asia so what one's got to rican sighing these issues which may become politically difficult for politicians to handle and also the administrators who quite often and this is really a slur at times when anything that needs to be discussed and we say we're not going to discuss it because it's politically correct on the other hand you know on on a daily basis whether it's in print media broadcast media or anything there is a horrendous sort of issue against muslims there are headlines every day blaming muslims as terrorists issue of his job he shoe off me and on a daily basis basis muslims are being marginalised in u.k.

if it were a politically correct situation then we would not have these sort of headlines in the newspapers and i think lady voir see has quite. rightly pointed out that it has become extremely acceptable dinner talk to malign muslims philip i want to come to you let's talk specifically about the number of people the authorities say brits who went to syria to fight for isis is that number at around eight hundred fifty it's feared around two hundred fifty are back now in the u.k. maxell is a man who is said that he thinks that the young the teenagers amongst them that they should be reintegrated back into society as a former intelligence officer what do you think of his approach. there has to be a holistic approach that has to be a balance of using the judicial system for people who have committed a crime by joining prescribed organization and a rehabilitation program remember if someone gets sentenced to

a prison sentence in the united kingdom that prison is there to punish but it's also there to rehabilitate it so the rehabilitation can happen inside the prison system i don't think it is properly at the moment and that's a different issue but it should be happening inside the prison system as well as rehabilitation happening in society and that ties in with the wider contest strategy to make sure that people are not being radicalized and tempted to go off and fight these illegal wars in the first place and that the controversial side of the contest strategy is to prevent a program and that's been extremely successful at stopping young people from going off elsewhere and i think maxwell recognizes that and his review of the terrorism strategy is bringing that holistic piece together not focusing on one bit or another and then you get the show people in the press with it with the headlines but just want to go out there and say that everything's bad you know what i understand completely what is going through. the issues with your last speaker just

said of muslims feeling as if they're being marginalized i'm from northern ireland before muslim extremism came in silence the pub by opening my mouth because everyone looked at me and went is he a terrorist so i know what that feeling's like it's not to do with color it's not to do with various is to do with perception and the way the perception in society is being drummed up and there's too many sensational headlines that are focusing on sign bytes not substance. is it sensationalism in the press that this the kind of sentiment that you know report that might endanger counterterrorism efforts is it sensationalism is it realistic i think it was very silly because i don't know don't know if you know the last thing is that it's very nice about should be as biography but it's not really relevant and the city. no the knowledge is not really relevant to what we have right now and i spent some time with. before allison saunders he was is now being the breaks it talks of course for the for the labor

party and is widely considered to be probably the best we've had in the u.k. for quite some time the incoming d.p.p. has got an absolute knowledge of some substance not the least bit on. where where we've got british citizens who are in syria. some of whom who have come home and we already are facing a radicalization crisis because our counter radicalisation and i count as tara strategy and u.k. has been absolutely a joke we have had the government listen here's a little stream we're going to. put it is i want anyone to anyone tell you we're all finished i'll finish doing my bit philip finished you might be and by all means coming after you but we have a government who has invested the time in the wrong people with the neo conservative lobby we've seen broken and i've written about this at length in the huffington post and i've written about it in blogs and given interviews numerous times. and here without you as well so we have a situation we've we've got british kids in syria being radicalized now we don't

know who's committed what crimes now i do we bring them back home and we give them a smack on the bomb and we say we're going to put you through the system i'm going to be the key all we are going to take them out with. asteroids which are about twenty percent accurate or drone strikes which ten years of use in afghanistan or pakistan show up out there for six or seven percent accurate indeed alternatively. no drones are two percent accurate about ten twenty percent accurate you're lucky you're you're going wrong. i'm going to get analysis from doing alternative facts i do things which are i'm not going to have you speaking alternative facts i don't mind it when i'm going giving to give you. the reality is correct the reality is very different philip philip philip calm down philip come down. the reality is this the incoming d.p.p. has a problem i do we go along with boris johnson and. secret plan which of course have already been willing to. you know give some direction over which is that we are

almost handing them our rights to protection from a death penalty sentence or we can strike them out there or currently we'll make them stateless not bring them home so why not bring our trash i'm we're not dealing with them we're not putting them in prison we're not looking to be radicalized and we decide the easy way just kill them or hand them to americans to deal with because it is it is more efficient not on their own intro last minute we're done opening to. go ahead philip we have long standing solutions that we want to hear like with so many political statements here without it without any i.q. or substance or let's deal with the the. things. we were told we will have to. really try to look at america the government having been found guilty of any crime. after they've been found we can't live until the state makes some time to make sure that the law being goes in to stop them coming up.

getting the death penalty we don't know that they're going to get the death penalty because they haven't been tried so again this is sensationalism that's been brought out truly purely to try and cause political really intended to politically and they haven't got a passable. they've been made statements are not british citizens anymore they've had the right to british citizenship stripped from them they've been arrested by the authorities in syria they there's an extradition. movement the united states you know they're not our responsibility anymore but again the united states is a very different i don't know if i've got a different sort of question will give them a fair trial i want to move the conversation. about the human rights sorry to interrupt you but i just want to listen to a sound bite of boris johnson let's hear what he had to say his approach on tackling jihadism of course we legally justify those drone strike assessing nations

as preventative to stop future acts of terror in syria but that's because the masks the reality that killing them is also richard beauty of payback for the filmed executions of innocent people. just want to give an opportunity to so to speak against it is that the right motive for that was what was the foreign secretary talking about basically an official u.k. government stance a vengeance is not appropriate. well look boris johnson the former foreign secretary has been an advocate of bragg's it on the basis that britain wants its sovereignty back britain wants to make its own laws britain wants to sort of contain its own culture in many ways and it seems very contradictory when at this moment mr boris johnson is advocating to handle were this albeit british nationals whose nationality has been this trip so is boris

johnson really saying that our laws in the u.k. are not robust enough are the shallow and we are not to be able to. you know have these criminals because they're criminals at the end of the day to go through the justice system and be imprisoned for a whole of life or whatever the sentence happens to be at that time and what we're doing if we follow mr boris johnson the strategies that we are really french are using our justice system to the usa because usa has a death penalty and ok your previous commentator was saying that we don't know whether they will be sort of a death penalty would be passed to them because the trial has not happened but the reality is that we are using our sovereignty and telling the world that britain is not competent enough to really. sort of put through criminals through the criminal

justice system and then at the end of the day whatever punishment that needs to be met it out to them will be given. mo what do you think of that approach drone striking suspected this. basically for vengeance is that not evil. well i am against extrajudicial killing is not for go ahead. i'm against extrajudicial killing i think the americans created a real difficult precedent when they killed the notable terrorist. who was of american citizenship. extra judicial killing doesn't work we've had three previous conflicts as far as britain is concerned in afghanistan and that's when they coined the phrase mowing the lawn the idea was you've got to go back out once a generation every couple of generations and cut the grass back in case they come over here and attack us now firstly we've got no business being in syria. has been

a long term ally of the west of blair met the queen had a very cozy time when he came here he's also you know an ally of the west is also an ally of russia so have a perfect storm there but i think extrajudicial killing is not the answer. i would go for the line in approach i think there's some common ground between me and phillip and i worked in prevent and all the counter radicalization programs based nationally and locally at the outset and then became of the harshest critics of it because we lost our way there's an almost law against human rights now they are british citizens we need to deal with our rubbish we've got to bring them home if they are capable of being the radicalized and we can deal with them like they do in some of the nordic countries or some the scandinavian countries and we integrate them into british society great if they can't we try them whether that see in public whether that's in private whether it's in secret put them in prison throw away the keys or be the first to be the first to sign up to the idea but the idea

that we somehow vassal state of the us that our detention system doesn't work that we cannot handle these chaps who need to be brought back here and families don't forget the first guy who died in syria was a chap a young chap from portsmouth who went out there on a humanitarian basis became embroiled in the conflict ended up being a chef out there and kept an online diary for nine months and then was thrown into conflict and died now has he been convicted has he been tried what is he guilty of this we are in a fourth generation of warfare actually how do you know we just want to know where we don't have a solution over to phillip and give him a chance to respond so that sure. this is somebody who doesn't understand conflict . how do you go in and arrest these people and bring them back in the most little police corps to be put in a cozy so to.