populism one thing is undeniable mainstream politics in both parties are under pressure to evolve and become more accountable. ross talking democratic socialism i'm joined by my guest steve malzberg in new york he's a conservative political commentator in washington we have ivan eland he is a senior fellow at the center on peace and liberty at the independent institute and in los angeles we cross to ron paul cone he is a comedian is a frequent guest on the jimmy doris show and the young turks as well as host of his own streaming show get your news on withdrawn all right gentlemen crosstalk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want and i always appreciate i always go to the person that got up early is for the program so that means it's you ron in los angeles god bless your soul. we you know we hear a lot about the the rise of democratic socialism. that turn to the left in the

party though the donors don't seem to want to go there what is democratic socialism because i'd like to remind our viewers i've lived in communist eastern europe and they call that democratic socialism ok and they didn't have a lot of birkenstocks and they didn't have a lot of capital to point out so what is that in a nutshell go ahead. well democratic socialism in the contemporary american sense i mean you know whenever people throw around these terms you need to factor in you know the snapshot in contemporary time but democratic socialism is certainly not authoritarian socialism or anything like that democratic socialism as the d.s.a. is presenting it basically just gives more rights to the workers it still allows enterprises stuff like that however workers have more rights and they have more of a say and they see more of their product and what that d.s.h. mission is in particular is to try to get away from the economy that instead exploited workers and is focused on destroying the environment and war they're

trying to get away from all that to occur in an economy that is more sustainable that workers have a better seat at the table and where everybody has health care ok ok steve i mean you know socialism tends to become authoritarian if you don't keep an eye on it i'd like to point out in a move in the country that had a pretty disastrous experience with it but steve you know when i listen to a lot of people talking about democratic socialism ron pointed out on workers' rights i don't hear that so often when they talk i hear about abolishing ice having open borders. you know cultural relativism that's what i hear i hear identity politics and that makes what they hair on the back of my head stand up go ahead. absolutely all you have to do is go to the democratic socialists of america website and find out what the democratic socialists of america are really all about everything you just alluded to plus guaranteed income whether or not you're working when you talk about the workers having more rights they want the end of capitalism

and workers to run the show workers would own and run everything there wouldn't be private ownership by corporations stockholders would go to you know where and let me let me just if i may hate reading thing but this is very important the disgraceful use of prisons to regulate behavior would be replaced with a system that decriminalizes a wide range of offenses and provides victims victims of the ones in prison provides victims with mental health care and various forms of counseling to help people find productive ways to move forward after committing serious crimes so you commit a serious crime no more prison you know get counseling these people are looney bins ok let the democrats run on this employees ok steve what you just described is good mo in one form or another let me get i've been ill and in washington here. i hate reading things too but i will a harvard university study. published

a study in april that found fifty one percent of those between the ages of eighteen and twenty nine dislike capitalism with a majority prefer and socialism as a political system is socialism a political system that's what i'm worried about when ron talks about workers i'm all yours i'll listen to workers' rights i don't have a problem with that ok we need a healthy left in the united states here but people talk about a political system that is socialism go ahead i've been well of course the technical definition of socialism is nationalizing industry nationalizing the means of production and i'm not sure i hear anybody really talking about that i see straight. king similarities between the right in the left that we have now i wouldn't consider trump a conservative i would consider him a nationalist he's been for quite a big a big government that we want to talk over measure in all its forms i think you know he was he passed in the republicans went right along with them three hundred

billion dollars budget meanwhile cutting taxes and yawning the deficit and the debt we also have him putting on terror spree texan is tariffs which isn't conservative and then they eling out the farmers with twelve billion dollars worth of aid which doesn't really cover the problem it's not going to cover the losses that he's cut off the terrorist he's also said he's not going to do away with security in medicare now my purpose here isn't to attack trump i'm just saying that he's a more nationalist republican and i think bernie sanders followers have a lot in common with him to some extent now of course that's left populism and he's sort of a right populist in the in the case of the president so you're seeing encroachments of big government and you know we have all these terms for democratic socialism right wing populism but we may end up sort of all at the same place with more

government encroachment on our freedoms you know ronnie it it seems to me the in looking at some of the races that it's still been a more of a rejection of the status quo and some people move to the to the right and some people move to the left but everybody seems to have a problem except for people in the center and they want to keep everything the way it is and i did mention just off the cuff donors don't want to big change here too and i'm not sure i'm not just at tacking the democrats here you can easily as i've been did do it to the right but republicans as well go ahead ron. absolutely so first of all we have border security we had border security before i suggested it's not like anybody who calls for the abolishment of ice is calling for open borders i'm in favor of abolishing ice i think this country is a lot like espresso in that regard better without ice however that doesn't mean open borders that just means a rejection of this organization that is being authoritarian and brutal so that's

the first point and also yeah the democratic establishment is not a big fan of the d.s.a. or anything in there about that this is their first priority. but yeah i mean their first priority is stopping progressive policies from happening and policing the donors their priority further down the list is maybe beating a republican but that's not that big of a deal because whether that happens or not the gravy train keeps a roll and. we are seeing a rise in populism now i would make the argument i know some you guys on this panel see things differently that's fine but i would say right wing populism isn't really a thing that's kind of an oxymoron so i think trump ran on this kind of idea of that and a lot of people latched onto it i would say largely he hasn't delivered on that and i don't think he's going to but i think that the time for true populism is at are at the forefront right now and if history in the united states is any

indication we're kind of due for a sharp turn to the left right now we're mirroring the great depression it will anyway ok but what happened after that was f.d.r. ok ok let me go to stay here because i mean again it could be you know i mean ron you but on this program before and we've discussed this you know left in progressive in this stablish mean and all that that's fine but steve you know every since two thousand and ten the democrats you know have lost over and over and over again because i keep running on the same message over and over again and. one can make the argument that trump appealed to the people that filled the disaffected i mean a lot of white men a lot of white people in general voted in two thousand and sixteen because they finally found a candidate that they could they could see that would consider their concerns ok so i mean you know a lot has been said here but i mean i do i do think that this is a lot about insurgency and it's all about bernie sanders i think this is going to be the most important event remember not trouble is elected but what was done to

bernie go ahead steve well first of all let's also point out that donald trump got the higher percentage of hispanics voting for him only and did mitt romney or john mccain which i think is something that goes overlooked and really should look the reason why the donors don't want the you know the socialist democrats influence and and policies and platforms it's because they can't win i mean that's why someone like me is begging you and begging the democrats to run how do you explain to let ensemble or know where you stand keep. a lid on so cool and a little first of all this a very very very small percentage of people voted and she happens to live in a district where where that message appeals but even she isn't honest when she is pressed on what she she believes as a democratic socialist she says oh i don't think we should have labels i don't like the label if that if the word got out that she was for abolishing prisons of

biology prisons abolishing capital is not good for us and i didn't say that we're always talking about what are often prison industry those are two completely valid it's a policy there is a completely different things if you want to talk about what's going on or rather have a long conversation like that and how it's take that further to call it lee different thanks. guys for the program what they think about where the program i said one thing. well time for everyone i've been limmy turn to you. the g.o.p. should love these democratic socialists because it's the fighting it's dividing the democratic party and you can tell from the very top they're scared of these people go ahead i would yeah i would say to the democrats that you know it's ok to have that wing of the party i mean the republicans and the tea party wing but it does make your candidate an electable in certain places now if they had the democratic

party runs more conservative candidates in these places they may have a better chance of winning but i'm sure the party apparatus doesn't really care for a lot of this talk about. you know free college education for everybody medicare for all because these are very expensive programs and nobody is figured out in the democratic party or anywhere else how to pay for these but of course you know the republicans have done this with their tax cuts that's what they do to get a lack of good ok i mean well and i mean let me living in fact let me just instead of they increase it i have to we have to go to a hard break after a short break we'll continue our discussion on democratic socialism staying with our.

really do. look at it this is is. this . it's. cool to walk. back to the divinity for a night for. a while for school it's only about the looking on the other end of the pool full to one of the mighty well columns on the wall she will not the floor for

a. cover. up you'll look up. most people think just stand out in this business you need to be the first one on top of the story or the person with the loudest voice of the biggest raid in truth to stand down lose business you just need as the right questions and demand the right answer. the. question no. problem.

welcome back to cross talk where all things are considered i'm peter lavelle to remind you we're discussing democratic socialism. ok let me go back to ron here and. again i want to stress the issue of identity politics because when i look at some of the things i mean democratic socialists of

america i mean i've been around for a while ok and i looked at some of their older literature and you're spot on they looked at more and working people getting a fair shake that's fine but what i see now is this infusion of identity politics and i think that you know i can say pretty confidently given the election results over the last few years that doesn't work it doesn't work for the democratic party but they they don't you know that when you talk about transgender toilets and stuff like that it turns off the heartland i'm from the heartland this is something that people they want the factories to star opening up again they want their wages to go up and then you have these things you know this political correctness and and these pronouns all this nonsense and i don't have any patience for it because it doesn't advance my life or the people around me how do you address that run. well there is a world of difference between exploiting identity politics for just political jargon nonsense and addressing issues affecting different communities i would argue

that the d.s.a. is doing the latter who's doing the former i would say that's what the democratic establishment is doing so so i think i'll lot of the issues with identity politics as in using it for wrong and dishonest means i think that's something the democratic establishment is doing and there is again there's a world of difference between them and the d.s.a. and movements like it the democratic establishment they're the ones that like to point their fingers at people less powerful than them and say oh you didn't support hillary clinton well clearly your a sexist you're not a big fan of harris well you're a sexist and a racist that's where identity politics yeah floats in a dishonest way and there's a world of difference between that and addressing issues of different communities one is a good thing one not so much well steve would probably wrong just proved our point i mean in this identity politics it is it's a dragon that eats its own tail so obviously trump supporters are sexist and

homophobic but it within the democratic party if you didn't support hillary then you're just as bad as the trump people i mean this is insanity. right it's a way hillary will tell you if you're a woman you listen and you didn't vote for her because you were listening to your boss and your husband your boyfriend and you're not strong enough to stick up for your own beliefs you were told who to vote for don't forget half the country is a basket full of deplorable zx and that's the mainstream democratic party look again i can't say this enough when you look at a free this free that. by the way let's look to latin american countries let's look at venezuela what's the inflation rate there forty thousand percent i mean please i beg i beg the democratic party adopt the leftist ideals here adopt the platforms to adopt the ideas here you'll never win another election never it's impossible in this country that and the fact that they don't see that really calls into question

what they are what their goal is because they're not dumb they're not stupid people they know they can't win generalized elections and the good point made by ron earlier. democrats are running conservatives conservative democrats who are antipolo c. and to appoint pro trump on issues so when districts and you're talking about nationalizing democratic socialism if it doesn't make any sense well cayman how do you explain bernie sanders then gudrun how do you explain bernie sanders and i mean peter you even said yourself bernie sanders is the biggest story here yeah do you guys if you think that it can't win and i mean we don't disagree on the corruption of the democratic establishment that's one thing where all of us will be in agreement but how do you explain bernie sanders a guy who is an open socialist who came out of nowhere and almost pretty much constant grassroots revolution probably would of had the establishment not cheated

him is applauded in the heartland with a true populist message how do you explain bernie sanders if you entertain the good he says the democratic socialism can't win steve if you want to play. because bernie sanders yeah because bernie sanders is a polished socialist he doesn't talk about any of the other issues all it talks about is income inequality it's unfair unfair unfair he doesn't get into specifics it is talk about the jails he doesn't talk about the the groups that you talk about transgender etc he focuses on one message and one message only which resonates with a certain percentage of the population a rather large percentage perhaps but when push comes to shove if you want to run as a democratic socialist or a socialist and you have to own the other policies that go with it and that will never fly ok i let me get i've been in washington i mean is is is this a pivot. transformational moment because you know in many ways you could see the

trump is the same thing for the g.o.p. because a lot of the purists in the g.o.p. still hate trump ok and and also what we have here in the democratic party you know we there is a huge split i mean i think all of us would agree that income inequality is a big problem in that it's the single most important issue that can divide a society we can always have these other issues on the side income inequality is dangerous here. is the democratic party really being able to address that issue well i think we have to i think both parties. have noticed the income inequality even some conservatives have started talking about it but the problem is the parties differ on the cars of course the cars to the democrats or the democratic socialists are you know big corporations and. you know pry excessive profits for corporations and not giving it back to the worker

for the conservatives it's that the the very very opposite it's that the system has become so bogged down with regulations and other things and big government that the market is not allowed. to you know they all the regulations create essentially oligopolies and that sort of thing and that that causes income inequality so it just depends on which side of the fence you're on politically. ok ok well right you know ron i mean one of the it was brought up to me here is that you know this mantra you know with free there's free education free welfare free. education for everyone and they still want to have an open borders i so i want to harp on the open borders thing is i mean this is been amplified over the last few months here i mean if you want to have a big welfare state a super welfare state don't you think you should have

a border to make sure the rest of the world doesn't take advantage of it i mean the people on the inside the burger to say whoa whoa we want this for ourselves because we're paying for it ok so the open borders argument kind of deflates unless you want cheap labor go ahead rob. well i mean again the abolishment of ice and open borders are two different things it did soon no one is calling for just complete no nothing whatsoever but where everyone is calling for reasonable border security at least to the extent that i see it what people are against is the brutality of ice secondly it's not free stuff quote unquote what it is is a reallocation of resources we spend more on bombs in the military than pretty much the next thirteen countries combined just about we have more than enough resources in this country to have single payer health care nonprofit single payer health care which you know the community would pay for it's not free stuff it's a reallocation of resources of what we're already paying we already pay

a higher g.d.p. for health care than most other countries and we get less because of a broken for profit system same with education we could reallocate our resources to have to have to we should free college in this country we choose not to same with a green new deal or an infrastructure program we have the resources to do all this stuff but we don't allocate it that way instead we just give bonus bomb money to the trump administration or whoever's in power ok omid do the same stuff steve you know education was meant. then that's another point for me i think that all in all government expenditures and almost all except for maybe preschool and kindergarten should be cut because all they do is teach an ideology this nonsense postmarks is post structuralism and it brings up people into the world that can't do anything except for yell and scream about. a perceived victimhood ok i mean i was in the university of california system for

a long time and they don't teach you much they distich you to be angry and teach you to be a big tim go ahead steve well well look at what the attorney general sessions said the other day talking about the universities calling some of them out by name you know they're raising a bunch of snowflakes they have safe rooms and quiet rooms in places you could run to and you can't offend people perceive the fences and blah blah blah the whole thing is becoming a total joke look again all this talk of free stuff at least i think ron acknowledge it's not free everybody pays for it and it is a reallocation of funds i mean that so to say that ice is brutal is insane to say that without ice you're not you're not advocating open borders is insane the public is already the polls show the dead we if we didn't read it i. know what limitations . there was no but they were elsewhere and i'd like to know who you would keep out i'd like to know who you would keep out on the what circumstances i dare you to name what the circumstances would be and who you would keep out look the public is

again. one no podium today because the public would never go for these radical leftist ideals proposals policies so plays somehow let your candidates run on these policies and you will suffer worse defeats then you did under obama whose candidates all throughout the country state local government leverage level got slaughtered in the elections now that you lost over a thousand can see all over all in the nation so you want to make it two thousand adopt these policies ok i'm the new i mean obama the guy who ran on a center left platform and won twice didn't deliver on it by the way but yeah but yeah but ronnie didn't have didn't have coattails ok and that's undeniable ok ivan you know what we've. run in. concert here what we've seen on this program is not really a policy difference it's a cultural difference and i think that's what the election showed and i and then

unfortunately this cultural the vision people are not talking to each other we did a pretty good job on this program last thirty seconds go do you have anyone in washington well i would just say i think you know we need to stop the stereotypic yelling and talk about the issues when we talk about all these expensive programs cut in the defense budget the numbers just don't add up i'm for all for cutting the defense budget naf but it's not going to pay for single payer health care or a university education for everybody we're twenty one trillion dollars in debt we've got one hundred trillion dollars in deficit and i think both parties stone address the facts ok gentlemen all i can say is to be continued that's all the time we have many thanks and i guess in washington new york and in-laws. banjo's and thanks to our viewers for watching us here at the see you next time and remember.

close. some full company on. indigenous people as you know we that they paid in the people the trees. most flukey should say the only. out of a sudden a man just found and pulled be there. i said i when entering it begin if they will not allow a move. if they will shoot we've. got all.

million million indeed i'm not i'm not even on the menominee been dotted beachhead didn't go in bondage don't feel me no no no i got up i got medical book and i'm i mean you got me i used. to. just far away. down there. he does a dollar vigilante and he's an anarchist and that is an arche it's anarchy in that there is no centralized authority that is corrupt of all that leads to all kinds of bad outcomes when you have got to do centralization of power you know you have the wherewithal to have a more peaceful existence. that's a very rough for sure and you sort of climates and you have to try to be able to reflect. it was gunshots on top of them and so many friends who would have

been going to make and i've been and you don't want to leave don't get me going will back up a story you know i don't want to see it but a body in the truth when it's ready to participate in the good. old to me the good will be to me if. you don't think about this leave the soldier on you just like any other and other patients. everywhere in the world my guess is that probably just about everywhere women expect men to make that first move and here we are in an age where men are scared to make the first move don't know how to make the first move don't know what's right to make the first blow.

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