it's happened. camera. roughly once they showed some for the. future uncool videos with the rockies staring at. me down more on string i don't really don't t.v. . well welcome to sophie and co i'm so. with climate change upon as green technology is becoming all the rage but our being overly enthusiastic about renewable energy while i ask financial guru and. her. wind farms

solar fields fuel made from starch or hydrogen cells it seems that the future of never ending clean energy is already upon this but with the rising infused about going green bringing unprecedented caution into the young industry are the politicians just writing the green wave without thinking too much about potential pitfalls is renewable energy technology really ready to provide cheaper energy than coal or gas and what will be the fallout after the burst of the potential green bubble. pear women are welcome to the show it's great to have you on our program so clean energy is being pushed upon as it seems with climate change now doing things well can no longer ignore but you sound skeptical about green energy as a whole calling this a green bubble so when we look first in the or in the months should we go up on green energy before it's too late. it's true i've written a book. well the green bubble and the whole purpose of the book was to really

illustrate that if we're not careful how we allocate subsidies and tax payers money it will become a bubble that is very likely to to burst costing lots and lots of money for the taxpayers however i do put forward a proposal where we focus on what is on the technologies and the types of green energy that are likely to be commercially sustainable within the short to medium term and if we do that we have a solid future for green and i do want to see more green energy but i want to see it implemented in a commercially sustainable way but if one doesn't listen to you and it's not implemented the way you see one do you think the bubble will burst but i think if we do it for only these subsidies will just accumulate and build up and build up and build up because there is the most noble political desires to have more clean energy but if implemented in the wrong commercial way. it will over the next few

years say within the timeframe of three four five years you will have such a mountain of subsidized projects that are unlikely to be able to stand on their own two feet within the next sort of fifteen to twenty years and that will effectively to lower the burden that will then come pressure from journalist pressure from lobbyist groups and also just from normal taxpayers who say what am i getting for my money we're pumping in so much and we're not getting enough therefore was very important to be commercially disciplined so if we look back let's say ten years ago green energy was quite costly endeavor but with tech advances in wind and solar energy it's now getting cheaper former u.k. energy minister charles hendry told me it has dropped by house and six years so his costs are coming down these green technologies have a chance of becoming commercial a sustainable no or am i missing something here it is. we got to separate the green

technologies into two groups the group a which is the group that are likely to produce commercially sustainable energy without subsidies within the medium within the medium term call it seven ideas and the other group which very very unlikely to do so in that period now solar energy specifically is a good example of category a way of actually subsidies have helped courtesy of the bigger the german taxpayer as you have effectively subsidize it so much that the cost curve has come down and you can in certain places have solar energy standing on his own two feet without subsidies for instance in certain parts of spain and that's why we need to get serious or so injuries a great example of that on shoal wind in part also in particular if you use big big turbines like six megawatt turbines you will in certain places be able to generate so much energy so much wind that it can actually be economically viable

without subsidies and that's exactly what we need to get to that as a whole you're blaming politicians for giving green technology subsidies without really looking into whether they can become stable why do you think governments do that blind hope or political calculation. i think there's a general sort of desire amongst politicians to be front page front page news and as long as it's green and it looks good and there's an attachment with his good image. i'm not sure all politicians look through the actual economic side of it and that's what i'm what i'm asking for we need more commercial discipline here. but that's just political life political life is usually a cycle of four to five years depending on the country and therefore those of us decide to do good or be seen to do good but here i come in as a business person saying listen it might not be so good for the long term for the for the taxpayers so therefore let's be disciplined about how we spend our money and mansion. the renewable energy agency says

a rapid scale up of investment in renewable energy infrastructure is needed had of the agency ag nonna mean tell me the total investment has already reached two trillion dollars but he needs to double that before the end of the decade to grow further to more than three times to current level in two thousand and twenty so is this a realistic goal. i think so it's certainly a goal to be desired we certainly need more green energy production and today it's still a very it's a small lower single digit percentage of the total energy produced so there's a bit of a task ahead of us if we don't do it we will run into problems of zero two emissions we have seen it already the effects the melting of the ice cap and the the the war with the global warming it cetera so the symptoms of there so we do need to push ahead on it but it's a member task is going to cost a lot of money globally fortunately we do see some countries really powering ahead now i mean look at china for instance was talking about making diesel and petrol

cause and with within you know in the in the twenty twenty five or something you seem frons you see no way of putting forward initiatives in that regard so suddenly the whole transposition transportation sector have seen a massive shift in political sentiment and dishonor and even legislation to move our economy towards more green driving economy and i think that's a very good thing he is directly and indirectly subsidizes fossil fuels more than green energy direct subsidies worldwide are bigger than those for renewables so if we apply the same logic here are we in an oil bubble as well. you could argue so i mean energy politics is obviously is very strategic for a country very sensitive in a g. pricing i mean look at india for instance where those massive subsidies mean that that is clearly due to politics because you know your fuel cost is something very

important just as well as your living standards so you have seen it also in the in the area of a few of those been massive subsidies i think we need to get into an area where we have a more equal level playing field. but in the short term we face the challenge of making green energy more attractive we do need subsidies i do acknowledge there is a need to to assist in giving birth to this massive new sector but it is in the long term interests of people on earth effectively because we're not getting less and less quite in the country is more people consuming more more energy so we do need to have more and more green energy in this world and it does require investments so that part is good but we can we just need to get more bang for a buck. return on our tax dollars invest the power make it what if you like that car you know a thing or two about both money and natural resources what's your opinion which create green technologies in particular are now worth putting money into but one

area we like a lot is the whole area of efficiency the. technologies that basically make use of use less energy for instance l.e.d. lighting by using that you effectively cost your consumption of energy by ninety percent nine zero percent it's huge now these lifeboats would cost you a bit more in the beginning but over time you end up saving so much energy and what saved you don't have to produce so i actually have a look at the whole green energy market efficiency and small house solutions l.e.d. lighting such things actually account for about fifty percent of the whole market so i think that's a fun. asked a garret too to focus on secondly we do like hydro a lot hydro power energy why because it's baseload it's big it's gigawatts and it's green unfortunately you can only do it where you have rivers so you do

need to be lucky enough to have a big river running somewhere but hydro power is fantastic and finally nuclear power we consider that to be green yes there is a disposal problem to a degree on the on the waste but net net it is still a green technology that today has become so much more safe over the years and it is a technology that delivers big gigawatts so if you can construct these power plans of the reasonable cost which seems to be a bit of a challenge sometimes around the world then i think that would also be part of the energy mix those three things hydro nuclear and efficiency those are the ones will move the needle big time in terms of green energy production globally now you have said before where we're having fuse infrastructure problems that hinder green energy development what do you mean it's existing alec tricity create infrastructure not adaptable to green energy sources. it is true the infrastructure problem is a big issue to be honest because it takes something like wind the wind usually

doesn't blow exactly where it is consumed the consumption is in the big cities the wind would simply be out of by the coast or in areas where there's a lot lot of wind so you've got to transmit the energy from where it's produced towards consumed and so it's got to pay for that typically it's been the state or has been the infrastructure providers but somebody has got to do it and it has to be economically attractive to do it unless the state is doing it but if you look at the build out of what is required if you want to switch say for instance you go to ten percent or twenty five percent wind energy production in a country like the u.s. you have to build a massive amounts of infrastructure in terms of transmissions and that is vastly expensive so this is a big challenge so why do you think that's a problem because i'm thinking a hundred years ago there was no infrastructure for extra city and had to be built

and it was built can't that happen the same way now you can make it happen and that requires political will to to make it happen because somebody is going to foot the bill. as to green energy the young fortunate thing is typically the production of the energy is much further away than if you use fossil fuel if you fossil fuel you can build a castle gas powered powered fire power station or indeed of an oil oil energy producing station close to the big cities just outside as it were so therefore the need for interest russia is much less whereas if you have green energy initiatives like solo wins or indeed hydro power it's simply is far away from where the energy is consumes you're going to have to build it out but that is the price of of green energy i'm afraid i'm. going to take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue discussing that. while some crane tacks stay with us.

i've been saying the numbers mean something they matter to us as over twenty trillion dollars in debt more than ten white collar crimes happen each day. eighty five percent of global wealth you longs to be ultra rich eight point six percent market saw a thirty percent slice last year some with four hundred to five hundred trade per second per second and bitcoin rose to twenty thousand dollars. china is building a two point one billion dollar a i industrial park but don't let the numbers overwhelm. the only numbers you need

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who are back with the non c.f. philanthropists and space tourists to be our when they're discussing future of green technologists welcome back to the show per now there have been grain bubbles before let's say in the ninety's and then during the financial crisis and during obama's time as well there's nothing scary about a green by melissa as it seems to always bounce back. there's something scary about bubbles in general in financial markets and of read another book about that called wall street without the ups and downs of financial markets and the sad reality is

when you build up big bubbles like that and they bust somebody is going to pay for it and typically it ends up being main street as opposed to wall street who pays for it so there is a political aspect to this the good news is you can actually prevent some of these bubble the bad news is that we as human being tend to want to create them out of maybe out of right motivation but wrong implementation that's the challenge we face here but that has been green bubbles in the past they have not been as big as this one we're building right now because now there is a shooter amount of political will maybe outside the u.s. partly with the current administration to really make this thing happen just look what's happened to the electric comma in the mode what's going on that the moment people really generally want to change and that creates huge opportunity and huge challenges big subsidies is required and therefore we've got to be very careful about this mountain of subsidies we build up so that it doesn't suddenly burst and

crash so climate change and all things green have become a cultural staple i mean think about it taking the subway not taking a plastic bag in a grocery store keeping your tires inflated those used to be mundane usual things and now there and by mental statements i think grain is becoming a fashionable thing to do it's a fashionable lifestyle well that drive the demand for green energy happens while. i think that's true certainly it's become more fashionable i think also i would even push a bit further saying the consumer has become more conscious about. the consumer behavior so we all think a little bit more about saving a bit more water. maybe taking public transport if that sees and best way to get that i think is more conscious consciousness about and therefore there is a drive amongst a lot of populations to do good to have

a clean environment we've all suffered a bit from coughing we've been in a very polluted city and it's not very pleasant i mean go to certain big cities in china or even indeed hin london where we've recently put on a ten pound extra charge for old cars that pollutes mole so there's definitely this political drive and that's in turn is a reflection of increased consumer awareness which ultimately is a good thing because whatever the politicians do whatever we do through legislation ultimately it's down to human and consumer behavior so that is a very good thing that we're becoming more conscious about ylem asked really stat the laws of economics will drive civilisation towards sustainable energy inevitably do you believe doesn't that make long term green investment why. there's nothing better if you can put up in the economic incentives without without subsidies for entrepreneurs to get involved if an entrepreneur sees an opportunity where there is

a decent return to be had and that return can be gained over time without subsidies a bet you that entrepreneurs around the world will roll up the sleeves and get on with it and that's exactly will be have seen in the space of solar energy in those places where solar doesn't need subsidies if it does make a decent return in its own right they'll get on with it and that's what we need to get to bring down the cost find the technologies that actually has a true chance of working in its own right on a commercially sustainable way within five to eight eighty a timeframe that's where we need to get to because then life will start to take. its pressure will start to take a life in of its own you will see projects being produced and sopranos want to expand the businesses make more money which is a good thing if it drives the green energy revolution forward in addition to the consumer behavior that also puts extra demands for products to be more green for

transportation to be more green etc that is that becomes a competitive edge and a good branding are you know it's not only the cream tack that is building forward fossil fuels are refusing to get second in past as well fracking technologies has let the industry tap into so much natural gas in america they say it will last a century it's cheap less polluting than coal or oil how can you will is actually compete with that. it is a challenge if you look at the cost per megawatt for renewable energy as a group to compete today with fossil fuel as a group is that coal in particular the price of coal per make a watt the dollars per make it what is actually very cheap so you're going to have to in the short term impose certain duties old or certain extra taxes polluting tax and that's those things to level the playing field because otherwise you're absolutely right it is challenging to compete today however the good news is going

forward within the reasonable time frame some of these technologies will be able to compete on their own right and that's the really good news but we're still going to need fossil fuel we want to the not for a long period to come fossil fuel still accounts for the vaastu fost majority of our energy production today so we still going to have to invest in that because it is part of life well you like it or not and that includes shale technology you've been able to go deeper into the oceans to to take more oil and gas off etc we are going to need it because you not going to want to let you call stand there idle if your car drives on on petrol that's just reality you want to go from a to b. and the electric bill a lot more of evolution to show for itself so once we ran out of oil and gas here will go look for resources in the sky that's what musk things and any rate what do you think is that far faster aiming that we're actually going to go to space for

some asteroid goal or someday that. i would beg to differ on that point first of all we're not going to run out of oil and gas anytime soon there is plenty available on the earth plenty yes it's true we always say there are so in so many years thirty years left this that you know that but the reality is it comes down to how much you want to pay for it for the extraction there's plenty available but it will cost you more to extract from the earth because now if you look at the big elephant deposits big deposits that's a beauty further out in the sea the deeper and more costly to develop the required big billions of investments but we are there they are so we can get it if you want to is just a much matter of how much you want to pay for it when it comes to resources from space mining asteroids so all the planets and that sort of things i think that's a fall off it streams dream for now it's just not economically viable yes there are

some some good resources the moon for instance has a lot of helium three which is a very scarce resource on the but it's just not economically viable to send a space ship to some drilling and then come back down again the cost of space transportation today even with space x. you know low cost providers is simply prohibitive to make that activity it can almost be viable you're more likely to find the answer in going deep deep in the oceans to do under the sea mining underwater mining and that sort of things that's more likely to happen well anyways you're going to space maybe not to high nasser and gold but you're going you've signed up for three trips to space with different private companies and completely your space training as well i mean this will be the first public space tourism flight are you scared at all i mean when you're doing it with our eating with russians at least you have the state guarantees of safety do you feel just as safe i don't know with virgin for instance. yes it's

true with enormous space i have been preparing for some time to go to space and in fact after on some of my space training in russia trained style city together with you know wonderful. been to bike annoying kazakhstan for a serious launches and flown make fighter jet so a lot of wonderful time in russia executing my space training as well as i've done in america and to be honest i'm so excited i can't wait to go yes those risks but there's always risk when you when you do exciting things i'm an adventure i'm a pioneer i'm not afraid of pushing the boundaries and in two thousand and eight to set a world record by doing the first tandem skydive all mount everest so often things that in my view much worse or have high risk profile in the past can't wait to go to space oh we'll follow me. if you take me maybe but i am last question for you

dennis tito this first space tourist paid twenty million dollars for a straight fifteen years later you're paying a quarter of a million dollars for your ticket using makes space travel will be equal in two train ferry another twenty years. no i don't think so i think it was actually on the launch pad in baikonur when when dennis took off to assess i was very very excited on his behalf and and he's a true pioneer in that regard so it's fantastic to see that actually now civilians can can go it is even more exciting that the cost curve is coming down so much and that's exactly what private enterprise brings to the equation here before oh if we have nasa and the all the other national agencies around the world funding it they tend to be less economically efficient bring in private enterprise like space x. and you just lower the cost base by eighty percent or so that's that's really good news and that means that space will become more accessible more people get an

opportunity to go into space and enjoy this. this fantastic experience that is being an astronaut i mean who don't want to do it as a kid lots of kids would want to go today and this is truly expiring that we can allow kids to dream for real about the prospects of going into space and a lot of time fantastic thank you so much for this wonderful interview will wish you all the best with all your endeavors or talking to. and to me space stories per hour when there are about whether green technologies can provide answers to our future energy needs and that's it for this latest and latest edition of the next time. thank you.

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a ko money says. no coal mines left. the job to grow all the coal mines that. sees people the survivors of disappearing before their eyes. i remember thinking when i was younger that if anything ever happened to the coal mines here that it would become a ghost town but i never thought in the million years i would see that and it's how it's happened. the.

top headlines here will not see there are posts in the united states say donald trump presidency has created a new form of anxiety disorder that has democrats claim russia tampered with the actual vote tallies during the twenty two sixteen presidential election. as prime minister has won a landslide victory and then election overshadowed by a security crackdown claims of ballot rigging. also the canadian government acknowledges a horrific post-war proctors when unmarried women were forced to give up their babies here on the program we speak to one of the victims. there was no conversation about with me about how i thought pregnant all they cared about was the fact that i was.