but in the short term we face the challenge of making green energy more attractive we we do need subsidies i do acknowledge there is a need to to assist in giving birth to this mess of new sect but it is in the long term interests of people on earth effectively because we're not getting less and less quite in the country is more people consuming more more energy so we do need to have more more green energy in this world and it does require investments so that part is good but we can we just need to get more bang for a buck. return on our tax dollars invest power make it what if you like that car you know a thing or two about both money and natural resources what's your opinion which create green technologies in particular are now worth putting money into but one area we like a lot is the whole area of efficiency the. technologies that basically make you do so use less energy for instance l.e.d. lighting it by using that you effectively cost your consumption of energy by ninety

percent one zero percent it's huge now these light bulbs will cost you a bit more in the beginning but over time you end up saving so much energy and what saved you don't have to produce so actually look at the whole green energy market efficiency and small house solutions l.e.d. lighting such things actually account for about fifty percent of the whole market so i think that's a fantastic area to to focus on secondly we do like hydro a lot hydro power energy why because it's baseload it's big it's gigawatts and it's green unfortunately you can only do it where you have rivers so you do need to be lucky enough to have a big river running somewhere but hydro power is fantastic and finally nuclear power we consider that to be green yes there is a disposal problem to a degree on the on the waste but net net it is still a green technology that today has been. i'm so much more safe over the years and it

is a technology that delivers big gigawatts so if you can construct these power plans of the reasonable cost which seems to be a bit of a challenge sometimes around the world that i think that would also be part of the energy mix those three things hydro nuclear and efficiency those are the ones will move the needle big time in terms of green energy production globally but as you have said before where we're having fusion infrastructure problems that hinder clean energy development what do you mean it's existing alec tricity great infrastructure not adaptable to green energy sources. it is true the infrastructure problem is a big issue to be honest because it takes something like wind the wind usually doesn't blow exactly where it is consumed the consumption is in the big cities the wind would simply be out of by the coast or in areas where there's a lot lot of wind so you've got to transmit the energy from where it's produced

towards consumed and so it's got to pay for that typically it's been the state or it's been the infrastructure providers but somebody has got to do it and it has to be economically attractive to do it unless the state is doing it but if you look at the build out of what is required if you were to switch say for instance you go to ten percent or twenty five percent wind energy production in a country like the u.s. you have to build a massive amount of infrastructure in terms of transmissions and that is vastly expensive so this is a big challenge so why do you think that's a problem because i'm thinking a hundred years ago there was no infrastructure for extra city and had to be built and it was built can't that happen the same way now you can make it happen and that certainly requires political will to to make it happen because somebody is going to foot the bill. as to green energy the young fortunate thing is typically the production of the energy is much further away than if you use fossil fuel if you

fossil fuel you can build a castle gas powered powered fire power station or indeed of an oil oil energy producing station close to the big cities just outside as aware so therefore the lead for interest russia is much less whereas if you have green energy initiatives like solo wins or indeed hydro power it's simply is far away from where the energy is consumes you're going to have to build it out but that is the price of of green energy i'm afraid it. will get take a short break right now when we're back we'll continue discussing that. tax stay with us.

from some education to putin to visit the white house is postponed and turns around inviting trump to moscow has trumped up a grand plan regarding russia or is he merely keeping a campaign promise this much much more efficient across.

the idea of spending money to acquire region to acquire territory to acquire wealth is an oxymoron there is no more wealth to acquire the ecosystem is collapsing the economy is flooded with worthless feel paper and the species is migrating over to the digital sphere feasibly these networks and platforms people are uploading their minds into cyberspace and hope to be comfy morkel so every dollar spent on defense every dollar spent by the pentagon is a wasted dollar it's a one thousand eight hundred seventeen sixteenth century mindset it's completely antiquated and it's utterly worthless. join me every thursday on the alex i'm unsure when i'll be speaking to get us out of the world of politics sports business i'm show business i'll see you then.

seemed wrong. but old rules just don't hold. any new world yet to shape out these days comes to attitude and in games from an equals betrayal. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

we're back with. our winner discussing future of green technologists welcome back to the show per now there have been grain bubbles before let's say in the ninety's and then during the financial crisis and during obama's time as well with there's nothing scary about a green bubble a since that seems to always bounce back. there's something scary about bubbles in general in financial markets and of read another book about that called wall street without the ops and downs of financial markets and the sad reality is when you build up big bubbles like that and they bust somebody is going to pay for it and typically it ends up being main street as opposed to wall street who pays for it so there is a political aspect to this the good news is you can actually prevent some of these bubble the bad news is that we as human being tend to want to create them out of maybe out of right motivation but wrong implementation that's the challenge we face

here but there has been green bubbles in the past they have not been as big as this one we're building right now because now there is a shooter amount of political will maybe outside the u.s. partly with the current administration to really make this thing happen just look what's happened to the electric comma in the mobile it's going on that the moment people really generally want to change and that creates huge opportunity and huge challenges big subsidies is required and therefore we've got to be very careful about this mountain of subsidies we build up so that it doesn't suddenly burst and crash so climate change and all things green have become a cultural sable i mean think about it taking the subway not taking a plastic bag in a grocery store keeping your tires inflated those used to be mundane usual things and now there and by mental statements i think grain is becoming a fashionable thing to do it's a fashionable lifestyle well that drive the demand for green energy happens while.

i think that's true certainly it's become more fashionable i think also i would even push a bit further saying the consumer has become more conscious about its consumers behavior so we all think a little bit more about saving a bit more water. maybe taking public transport if that seizes and best way to get that i think is more conscious consciousness about and therefore there is a drive amongst a lot of populations to do good to have a clean environment we've all suffered a bit from coughing we've been in a very polluted city and it's not very pleasant i mean go to certain big cities in china or even indeed hin london where we've recently put on a ten pound extra charge for old cars that pollute small so there's definitely this political drive and that's in turn is a reflection of increased consumer awareness which ultimately is a good thing because whatever the politicians do whatever we do through legislation

ultimately it's down to human and consumer behavior so that is a very good thing that we've become a more conscious about ylem asked really stepped the laws of economics will drive civilisation towards sustainable energy inevitably do you believe doesn't that make long term green investment why. there's nothing better if you can put up in the economic incentives without without subsidies for entrepreneurs to get involved if an entrepreneur sees an opportunity where there is a decent return to be had and that return can be gained a lot time without subsidies a bet you that entrepreneurs around the world will roll up the sleeves and get on with it and that's exactly will be have seen in the space of solar energy in those places where solar doesn't need subsidies if it does make a decent return in its own right they'll get on with it and that's what we need to get to bring down the cost find the technologies that actually has

a true chance of working in its own right on a commercially sustainable way within five to eight year time frame that's what we need to get to because then life will start to take. its pressure will start to take a life in of its own you will see projects being produced and sopranos want to expand the businesses make more money which is a good thing if it drives the green energy revolution forward in addition to the consumer behavior that also puts extra demands for products to be more green for transportation to be more green etc that is that becomes a competitive edge and a good branding her you know it's not only the cream tack that is pulling forward fossil fuels are refusing to get second in past as well fracking technologies has let the industry tap into so much natural gas in america they say it will last a century it's shaped less polluting than coal or oil how can you will is actually

compete with that. it is a challenge if you look at the cost per megawatt for renewable energy as a group to compete today with fossil fuel as a group the reality is that coal in particular the price of coal per make a watt the dollars per make it what is actually very cheap so you're going to have to in the short term impose certain duties old or certain extra taxes polluting tax and that's those things to level the playing field because otherwise you're absolutely right it is challenging to compete today however the good news is going forward within the reasonable time frame some of these technologies will be able to compete on their own right and that's the really good news but we're still going to need fossil fuel well we want to the not for a long period to come fossil fuel still accounts for the vast vast majority of our energy production today so we still going to have to invest in that because it is part of life well you like it or not and that includes shale technology you've been

able to go deeper into the oceans to to take more oil and gas off etc we are going to need it because you're not going to want to let you call stand there idle if your car drives on petrol that's just reality you want to go from a to b. and the electric bill a lot more of evolution to show for itself so once we ran out of oil and gas here will go look for resources in the sky that's what musk things and any rate what do you think is that far faster aiming that we're actually going to go to space for some asteroid goal or someday that. i would beg to differ on that point first of all we're not going to run out of oil and gas anytime soon there is plenty available on the earth plenty yes it's true we always say there are so in so many years thirty years left this that you know that but the reality is it comes down to how much you want to pay for it for the extraction there's plenty available but it

will cost you more to extract from the earth because now if you look at big elephant the posits big deposits that typically further out in the sea the deeper and more costly to develop the required big billions of investments but we are there they are so we can get it if you want to is just a much a matter of how much you want to pay for it when it comes to resources from space and mining asteroids so all the planets and that sort of things i think that's a fall off it streams dream for now it's just not economically viable yes there are some some good resources the moon for instance has a lot of helium three which is a very scarce resource on earth but it's just not economically viable to send a space ship up there to some drilling and then come back down again the cost of space transportation today even with space x. you know the.