economic dimension has been diminishing over time initially it was all about economics about how much money you know cattle in spain taxes and money that doesn't come back in the form in in the form of investment or some other way how spain there's not really represent normally because spain doesn't do the right economics you know the right economic policies for us but you know spain it's been a disappointment it's like it's like i think of the independent as a broken marriage. you know there is an economic argument. but main leads about you know feeling right i don't love you anymore and yes i promised when we got married they would be forever yes we voted the constitution or our parents for the constitution of spain in the argument years you know seen catalunya voted for the constitution hence you have to state no no yes i love you yes they promised yes i

sed where it would be forever but now it's over when you feel the economics of cheap so much notice of growth economic so you would tend to think about the economic terms be pursuing more happens or will period of time than just balance calculations at one point in time not surely much more important so what happened to cattle an economy over the period of time for examples of the poor and there's no. guarantee that our politicians whenever we have in the pen than country our politicians will choose the right policies we are roughly the size of switzerland or portugal. sweden or a little bit larger than finland. now eve we choose policies will end like switzerland not the one of the richest countries in the world one of the most competitive most productive if we follow the east policies then we will end up like now there's no guarantee that we will choose correctly but we will make our own

choices the spanish you know they have a preference for you know sending every single infrastructure through madrid where there is roads or highways or trains or high speed trains even even planes you know everything has to go through many and that's legitimate they can have those preferences now those are not our preferences that's not what's good for our economy that's not that's not good would for us it isn't twenty five percent of exports come from catalonia we have only sixteen percent of the population so we are interested in. having infrastructures you know looking to europe looking north not not looking and that's due to madrid so even if over the period of time different economic choices lead to more growth for a better result from catalonia would be inevitable period of dislocation i mean even r. and agreed a process of independence like the czech republic and slovakia all these years ago the velvet divorce yes involve some little creation there's not much sign that

would be a velvet divorce between spain and catalunya salut must inevitably you'd have to factor in a period of some economic difficulty since i'm a i'm a girl's economist they tend to look at the long run ok i have no doubt that in the long run we would be way better off this is catalonia would be better off and that would be as part of spain it as an independent only for the reasons i mentioned i'm not talking about the money in the most most people in catalonia worry about the fiscal deficit the amount of money that the cattle and stay in taxes than never can blag and i'm not talking about that. being able to choose the right policy is the rate of regulations the right investment few people seriously would argue that an economy the size of catalonia couldn't be a perfectly viable country indeed many economists would argue as the perfect size and all the gold in size between five and fifteen million all of evidence for that

but is there really an argument that it would be worth the candle the the improvement the economic improvement would be such that it would justify the all the bother of setting up an independent state the size argument is completely silly i mean the size argument is when i worked for the world economic forum you know the competitiveness index in the global competitiveness jointly devised. exactly how the person who arrived at the. for the forum ok i still run i still help them run the program nobody in their right mind can tell me that smaller countries perform worse than larger countries during the twentieth century the forces that would help your if you are a large country are these appearing right markets are no longer countries market is

the world or group of countries the european union or nafta. environmental problems spain cannot claim the change we have to have groups of countries the united nations terrorism right so the benefits of belonging to a large country are disappearing given that you cited switzerland as a model for best policy practice. after which is obvious which was a member of would be a better place for a cattle to be if it doesn't have the best benefit which is making decisions right because you accept whatever they're your other members of the rules that all the members this site but you still have access to the market you still have. access to a world without borders you have some some of the benefits you still have to pay and use but you still have to accept the rules the problem is that the rules you don't decide. the rule of academics in the in the constitutional debate in

catalonia i mean you were part of an academic grouping what was the role of economists and political scientists and and other academics what they contribute substantially to be to the ongoing debate we created a group of economists call the wilson group. that was mainly. for my school age students. or students of students but it was not a group pro independence he was a good rule. because that because some of the economies in that group are not growing dependent they don't support the bench but he was a group of pro-choice was about the right to the side as opposed to what the decision might be exactly. it's about an end this good decisions can only be made easy for citizens are well informed. of the fact on the overall debate do you did you manage to slay some of the canard and raise the tone of the debate i think that

the debate has been decreasing lee about economics after a quarter first thing many people saw through spain for the for in a for the first time. steyn has been very good disguising you know pretending to be a democratic country since one thousand nine hundred five since franco died but the true nature of spain appear that day and we have seen it ever since. sending politicians who have done nothing to prison for nine months now. you know be completely completely incomprehensible behavior and in the european judges are obviously you know showing that this is the case there is no good legal reason to keep these people in jail unusual academic in many ways i mean you were president of. f.c.

barcelona was. i was i was president by accident f.c. barcelona is like a little democracy have one hundred eighty thousand members will vote we have political parties and. there are term limits for democracy well this is quite successful it's a very successful year so what happened was that when that when the president. the president tries to get reelected and he can only do that once now during the period of the electoral period you know he has to quit and then treasurer becomes the becomes the president so i was the accidental president for three for these three months the accidental super bowl but one of the world's most prominent developed economists so i have to ask you one must question how close are we in your estimation to a. trade war and how damaging could that be to world economic growth prospects i don't know because. you're an economist so. there is very few things that

most economists agree on and that is that a trade war is bad for everybody it is crazy from a point from an economist point of view it's crazy to see how politicians are not only doing certain things that are reacting. no donald trump. on still right he he's going to hurt the american people. yes he's going to protect the steel producers in maybe a few jobs but of course how do you do that how do you protect your project by by actually having everybody else pay higher prices including the companies that use deal with the countries that produce cars and refrigerators and who in who pays for these higher and more expensive cars and refrigerators the american people so essentially he's taking money from the american people and giving it to these people that benefit now obviously the it's politics if you look at where the steel

companies are who are going to benefit there are the swing states that gave him the presidency and he says ok californians are going to lose but i don't care about californians they're democrats anyway. so it makes sense from his you know narrow political view to do that now what's in comprehensible is that then europeans do the same thing we're going to we're going to put a higher price on board now you know who's going to pay these higher prices they're european citizens says they are shooting yourself in the fort or i'm going to retaliate by shooting myself in the foot move this is stupid this is stop it you shouldn't do that even if the president in a state is crazy let him be crazy but don't bring this craziness back to europe are a good marketer think about the tax a potential target of bourbon but there's no suggestion is going to be a telephone scotch as yet what you do with the squiggles on the lighter to present

you with which you put the scorch and only scorch in the query and passenger many friends thank you thank you so much for being. here thank you. coming up after the break i'm due to follow stocks of the us regular us economic and political debates we haven't got the libya join us i. mean. that's a very rough furthur and you saw it's rough climates and you have to try to be able to live in a flat. it was gunshots on top them in so many friends and what happened in the morning and i'm in need not. apply i don't think anything will back up but. you know i don't want to see

a bit of what is in that surely is ready to participate in the good. old to me a good mood in which. you don't think about this leave this soldier on no you've got three played and you know do another patient. show seemed wrong wrong just don't call. me. yet to shape out just to come out to try. and gain from it because the trail. when so many find themselves worlds apart we choose to look for common ground.

finally and also this weekend. cons of billions of dollars on the front. line and if you have you would it be that easy to find. people. to. look at i think it might have been my little bit of a wonder that i little bit that we are not out of money going to go back much a little too late but tomorrow i'm going to get but it. is this is. like. some forces of. the sea. you can look over.

welcome back to the glorious that i mix of apollo and boss the lord not but i'm first joined by professor john maupin. another of the stigmas the columnist a director of the mostest program and enough of them to national finance trade and development. as yama thank you for coming to the i'll examine show thank you for inviting me now i'm interested in why so many distinguished economists such as yourself contributed to the the constitutional debate in catalonia the very beginning of their independence of money and there was the first reaction of the spanish estate was to bombard the capital and people with the idea that capone

independence will not be feasible from i cannot be a point a lot of very falls who is what they'll were published in newspapers continuously and many of us that were looking at these issues from a more not all standpoint or a more concrete way of thinking we started to talk to each other since there wasn't in effect act a community of catamount was when you spent most of or three of in the united states but a core community of cattle on economists across the world from the various centers of research indeed indeed many many of those many of the cattle and that we are writing about independents that we may differ. is that we come up with the starting result many of us were working abroad he was a metal work off economists working in many places there were these i have to say how can it be that these lights are published in newspapers or people are starting to believe them so we went and we decided that all. right things of this group of

economists were successful in raising the level of the discourse in terms of the constitutional debate i would argue that the answer these are sounding yes to the point that two years later. he got around two thousand and fourteen even two thousand and fifteen the economic debate stopped being a debate just let me let me give you like a simple example oh the people or the arguing i mean for example you can look at the newspapers in two thousand and twelve two thousand and thirteen two thousand and fourteen so maybe there would be all these because they meant an independent get along at. catalonia will not be able to be their pensions. that in the statement and then you say because the state does have all the pensions cut alone you would lose it how think think about yourself you think you are the only imagine

that i. hold my morning in the bank if i become independent of all the money that they have been saving over time in order to pay for my retirement so we are going to lose it all or you tell that to people and people will become what it about. but this is a lie. because pensions are not paid by farms that were collected in the past and now are put into investment and so on the pensions that they are being paid today. i based on the taxes that are being collected today for the pensions of my parents receive basically are based on the taxes on myself. if the one year becomes independent the waters will remain in that the lani are and they will pay the taxes and in fact we made a very simple calculation we said the same for each cattle and that is contributing how much would the pensions be separate systems and we found one that there are many younger catalans the ones that are more more young at the end than

in the rest of the space event of demographics exactly so for the start of that as you already observe that there's going to be more people for every pension and second among these young there's less unemployment so not only there are more but they want more often. and thirdly have a high yourself and the rest of us pain so if you stop and your separate pensions think that the money would be about ten percent higher than the rest of spain eve the same rules remained obviously the couple in government can decide to raise pensions can decide to decline of use pensions but if the same rules that we have now in spain pensions would be ten percent high as a precedent to your to some other issues which the viewers are interested in brixton britain how damaging economically do you think that could be from an independent standpoint looking at that issue i think that it might be there might

be substantial losses for the u.k. from being separated for europe but i think actually that the big loss is going to be also for the european union a while we saw over the years felt and perhaps that's because of my us it ok show and my love for some of those principles are they always felt that the u.k. had a very sensible position here many of the european issues and that the u.k. has played a very important role in actually a boy doing some of their strong arm government sort of policies that puts half french and german are more likely to go on to put on or to or to support a progressive until a thank you so much for being my guest today they hope whatever else happens in this respect of trade where there's no suggestion of tolerance of scotch whisky selling that be a disaster for the exam and quit which i'm delighted to present you with you know

the pro only scotch and not quit no other substance thank you very much on a show that's the case. and you must go well as a former finance counsellor in the catalan government and as one of the world's leading mathematical economists he's a fine job the barcelona graduate school of economics and a professor at pump of fabric university and barcelona his textbook on microeconomics is the most used postgraduate my cracker nomics textbook in the world here he nice speaks to alex. professor welcome to the alex salmond show thank you for having me here i'm interested. why so many cattle an economist taken part vigorously in the independence debate but you have course actually government minister for to spell so you made that transition from academic economists to government ministers what brought you into public service public services importer if i have to evaluate subjective when i was a youngster was

a very politically involved so politics does always attracted me and. after a long period in my career there are some personal going to do you think to each other i believe as strongly that there are many things that can only be done from from government that transition from being an academic a serious to theoretical economy yes full of greek letters in your and your equations to actually the application of economics through policy how easy was that transition it can be done you have to do the well up some skill of talking to people. expounding ideas economic ideas the explain simply one can make people feel chilled about them if you tell them that there are some greek letters behind what i'm saying. if you would

argue that your example and the was parts part of the inspiration why so many cattle an economist took part in the constitutional debate and that was the fact that you'd been a political practitioner encourage members of academia to to get involved no i doubt that look half the population in colonial. or. independence. so the logic says that half of the economist in god. around the bend. there are many economists. many good economists need a profession. profession which is where international lights lots of these from everywhere cash one question about how an economist estimates the effects of catherine and the plan is presumably you have to trade off the potential short disruption depending on how a settlement was reached against

a potential medium term benefit from perhaps improved decision making is violence. we estimated the some of the. some of the issues is one. to contemplate leaving. leaving the. union or any of scenario. a scenario involving independents who have to be in a scenario there for some coming in of mediation the mediation of . because we don't want to go to. a union for economic reasons but also for other. reasons we are now experiencing what it means to be under the protection of the european. union. there are

people in jail. in exile but you can count them. the. couple of months. we have seen the judiciary has done in germany in britain in. in scotland so and i mean a scenario you see catalonia future within the european union but of course the right to resist in the process of leaving the european union what's your assessment of the potential economic damage for the united kingdom. i cannot see how the how the united kingdom. could possibly. benefit from the store large to become a single. soran that by. its totally in bangalore europe has benefited a lot from trade from medicaid in. from europe it seems to be ready to move i don't know what will be tossed in catalonia near future i

hope it success but when you do then please use the quick you know the drill in the quick passage your close friends and frank you so much for appearing in the exam which are. very much in mind frankly coming up on next week's show we asked essential question of what is catalonia one thing is for certain there's more to it than f.c. barcelona is it a geographical construct and a twenty mistreating of spain or an ancient european nation and are its politics a problem or an opportunity in this troubled europe we ask the people who should help us in this quest the poets a journalist and academics to answer the question of what is catalonia one of the best from the walls of the immediate post-war period was the first man starting orson welles and then not from austin wells who is a really nasty piece of work makes the point that in the blood for the rule of the

balls as an italy it produced michelangelo leonardo da vinci and the remez songs meanwhile five hundred years of peace and stability in switzerland produced the cuckoo clock. a bit of an exaggeration but the something and the argument of turbulence is produce great art and also great ideas and i suspect that the one old renowned economists that we've spoken to the day only got involved in the catalonian political process because of the interesting times that catalonia was going through one thing's for certain the economics as practiced of catalonia is not the dismal science but the science of hope and then tests a patient of better times to come from tasmania and me and the whole crew of the alex salmond show it's good bye for now.

the way to the united states is dangerous for most of the illegal immigrants. crossing their fingers just as they would a simple i want to become lost and enter and i want to ask some just about what if many of them look for refuge in the so-called sentry sites the drug use to share information about undocumented migrants with federal authorities the best person to ask than call mom. on the seat or don't have it up or somehow get them in a lot of question that one that. they have to watch as they all choose to stay in

the country with donald trump in the white house all over forty couples. also feel the have to be about to do the job of the old sets it struggles of many couples won't. deal with the push to put impulse response both of you up as a pua hope for the. best guys are financial survival they say money the relatives could take it easy this is a central plank so for dying of the women's kind of problem right now it's a stop to. when a loved one is murder it's natural to seek the death penalty for the murderer i would prefer it be to me death penalty just because i think that's the fair thing the right thing research shows that for every nine executions one convict just found innocent the idea that we were executing innocent people is terrifying the is

just no way to present and that we're even many of the times families want the death penalty to be abolished the reason we have to keep the death penalty here is because that's what murder victims' families what that's going to give them peace that's going to give them justice and we come in saying. not quite enough we've been through this this isn't the way. when lawmakers manufacture come sentenced to public. when the ruling classes protect themselves. with the crime larry go round to the one percent. that's not working or middle of the room sick. i mean real news is

really. the headlines in our tell your wife of firebombings hit sweden just weeks before parliamentary elections prompting intense speculation over who started the well organized attack. also to come the donald trump says former cia director john brennan exhibits erratic conduct and behavior revoke his security clearance threatening a number of other officials with the same measure and armed gunmen stormed the military intelligence center in kabul with the city still mourning thirty four people killed and wednesday a suicide bombing at a school wife makes states plus also to come as the economic standoff between nine from washington gets worst the citizens vent their anger at us terrorists by smashing their i phone.