respond to that point i mean you know essentially what he's saying is there's no point in protesting here this far more constructive ways to protest. yeah and i actually find that to make no sense if you're somebody who's been subject to discrimination and you're taking to the streets what exactly to protest your discrimination what's your objective you're just ject it is the end of discrimination let's put the lunch counter example aside you're taking to the streets is that bothersome to people is that annoying to people when you get when you get arrested disproportionately when you get shot disproportionately when you get put in jail just proportionally that's not just annoying that's totally ruining your life so the fact you're taking to the streets is not merely destructive you're trying to make a point and you know will we ever get to the point where there's no discrimination no there are bigoted people let's stipulate that there are people who are bigoted they will be bigoted forever donald trump is giving them a voice but the fact of the matter is it's not to say it's wrong for them to

basically stand up for what they believe in that's what this little girl was doing that's all very briefly just the last question want to put to you but i think just a quick reply one of the proponent stations getting involved in this one can we just and i. asked him perhaps n.f.l. people to protest if they want to why is it such a big deal politically. because because the other side is is make the democratic party united states gets their power on dividing people and separating us versus them there's class warfare gender warfare ethnic ethnic warfare they want to show that everybody's got a reason for injustice and they need to vote democrat to war in order to fix it and it's all this is it's just it's pure politics and hillary hillary clinton got millions more votes than donald trump did and her campaign theme was being together not dividing people she wasn't mocking handicapped people she was a. telling punch him in the draw and i'll pay your legal bills that's not what her

team was thirteen was about bringing people together and she got million had more votes than john i'm sorry the voters actually disagreed with you. that we could talk a lot longer but we can't we've run out of time we got to go to the ad. that i was john william and former republican member of the missouri senate and also richard could stay now former advisor to the hillary clinton presidential campaign thanks. you watching our say thanks for your company today we're back with more news in our . welcome to a boss a lot of down to the big night for some buildings of the song part that's world heritage site is thought to be the greatest example of the postmodern tradition of

cattle and architecture the most highly appropriate because to be able to talk about the future and in particular the future of the cattle on a quarterly one of the features of the constitutional debate here because the lumia is the number of world renowned economists who've been active participants in that debate today we talked to just three of them we asked the why they got involved in that debate and how do they see the future of developing the first over to be in the studio with your treat your emails and your messages. last week's interview with president toto was covered far and wide in a number of publications both online and in print as confidentiality love and guardian elmore public radio article the way of dealing motion the national in scotland and common speech and also received a number of tweets and e-mails first from scott who says independence day last year of course a friend to catalonia being there as i was really did make me think about politics

democracy and identity how it arrives and is quickly removed food for thought indeed angela says fantastic interview keep up the good work thank you angela we hope to and then from john moxley says looks to be a very interesting interview and that was before present to us into his broadcast to john please do let us know if you enjoy it now you remember a couple of weeks ago alex also interview ten. mcleish now went to a few of the tweets you deceived and a sponsor to that lynn finlayson says great interview with teddy mcleish reese moqui did more than a chaperon if you came to scotland to see well i'm not so sure maybe get someone you're sure alex or maybe well susan says these dialogues are fit for the saw a fantastic henry i would be drawn mcleish and sam and chew over you keep politics past and present thank you susan and finally from bro and i who says henry mcleish excellent discussion with alex salmond on the show tonight. now professor shabby sally martin is one of the top economists in the world and is coming a professor at columbia university in new york city he's also taught at yale

harvard and the universe a tad pump in fact in barcelona and the barcelona graduate school of economics he was president of f.c. barcelona during the electoral process of two thousand and six and remains a board member a columnist for spanish newspaper la vanguard he also has a weekly slot on i.e.c. one i contribute regularly to c.n.n. alex speaks to him and by for the and. one of the top international columnists of the group for development but what drove you to that field of economics when i saw poverty for the first time i actually went to i was here in barcelona my undergraduate studies i went to harvard to study with my school a brahmin who is a prominent most important mathematical economist in the world in i travel to believe you're in for the first time i saw poverty and i couldn't i couldn't believe it real poverty at the time believe it was the poorest country in latin america and i was so devastated then i turned back and i said economics has to be

about solving these problems i know mathematical economies is fun it was like. solving crossword puzzles for me was like a fun good you know brain teasers. by the economist has to be more than that the debate on independence for cattle so the very strong economic dimension. of the economics of cattle independence economic dimension has been diminishing over time initially it was all about economics about how much money you know cattle in spain taxes and money that doesn't come back in the form in in the form of investment or some other way how spain does not really represent no only because. spain doesn't do the right economics you know the right economic policies for us but you know spain it's been

a disappointment it's like it's like i think of the independent as a broken marriage. you know there is an economic argument. but main leads about you know feeling right i don't love you anymore and yes i promised when we got married they would be forever yes we voted the constitution or our parents for the constitution of spain in the argument years you know seen deal in catalonia voted for the constitution hence you have to state no no yes i loved you yes they promised yes i just wear it it would be forever but now it's over when your field of economics where you go to so much notice of growth economic so you would tend to think about the economic terms be pursuing more what happens will period of time than just the. calculations at one point in time not surely much more important so what happened to catalan economy over the period of time for examples of the poor and there's no. guarantee that our politicians whenever we have in the pendant

countries or politicians will choose the right policies we are roughly the size of switzerland or portugal. sweden or a little bit larger than finland. now even we choose policies will end up like switzerland not the one of the richest countries in the world one of the most competitive most productive eve we follow the east policies then we will end up like portugal now there's no guarantee that we will choose correctly but we will make our own choices the spanish you know they have a preference for you know sending every single infrastructure through madrid where there is road or highways or trains or high speed trains even even planes you know everything has to go through many and that's legitimate the. can have those preferences now those are not our preferences that's not what's good for our economy that's not that's not what the world would for us it isn't twenty five

percent of exports come from catalonia we have only sixteen percent of the population so we are interested in having infrastructures you know looking to europe looking north not not looking and that's due to madrid so even if over a period of time different economic choices lead to more growth for a better result from catalonia would be inevitable period of dislocation i mean even and the greed process of independence like the czech republic and slovakia all these years ago the velvet divorce yes involves some little creation there's not much sign that would be a velvet divorce between spain and catalunya salute must inevitably you'd have to factor in a period of some economic difficulty seems i'm a i'm a girl's economist they tend to look at the long run ok i have no doubt that in the long run we would be way better off this is catalunya would be better off and that would be as part of spain it as an independent only for the reasons i mentioned i'm

not talking about the money in the most most people in catalonia worry about the fiscal deficit the amount of money that the cattle and stay in taxes than never can blag and i'm not talking about that. being able to choose the right policies the rate the regulations the right investment few people seriously would argue that an economy the size of catalonia couldn't be a perfectly viable country indeed many economists would argue as the perfect size you know all the gold in size between five and fifteen million all of evidence for that but isn't really an argument that it would be worth the candle the the improvement the economic improvement would be such that it would justify the all the bother of setting up an independent state the size argument is completely silly i mean the size argument is. when i worked for the world economic forum you know the competitiveness in the acts in the global competitiveness jointly devised.

exactly how i am the person who arrived at the index for the forum ok i still run i still help them run the program nobody in their right mind can tell me that smaller countries perform worse than larger countries during the twentieth century the forces that would help your if you are a large country are these appearing right markets are no longer countries market is the world or group of countries the european union or nafta. environmental problems spain cannot claim the change we have to have groups of countries the united nations terrorism right so the benefits of belonging to a large country are disappearing given that you cited switzerland as a model for best policy practice. after which is obvious which as

a member of would be a better place for a cattle to be if it doesn't have the best benefit which is making decisions because you accept whatever their your other members of the rules that all the members decide but you still have access to the market you still have access to a world without borders you have some some of the benefits you still have to pay and used in you still have to accept the rules the problem is that the rules you don't decide. the rule of academics in the in the constitutional debate in catalonia i mean you were part of an academic grouping what was the role of economists and political scientists and and other academics what they contribute substantially to be to the ongoing debate we created a group of economists call the wilson group. that. that was mainly my school aged former my school age students. or students of students

but it was not a group throwing the pendants evil was a good rule. because that because some of the economies in that group are not growing dependent they don't support the bends but it was a group of pro-choice was about the right to decide as opposed to what the decision might be exactly. it's about at the end the good decisions can only be made easy for the citizens are well informed. of the facts on the overall debate do you did you manage to slay some of the canard and raise the tone of the debate i think that the debate has been decreasing lee about economics after a quarter first thing many people saw through spain for the for in a for the first time. steyn has been very good disguising you know pretending to be a democratic country since one nine hundred seventy five since franco died but the true nature of spain appear that day and we have seen it ever since. sending

politicians who have done nothing to prison for nine months now. you know be completely completely incomprehensible behavior. in the european judges are obviously you know showing that this is the case there is no good legal reason to keep these people in jail unusual academic in many ways i mean you were president of. the bar so when i was. i was i was president by accident f.c. barcelona is like a little democracy have one hundred eighty thousand members will vote we have political parties and. there are term limits for democracy well this is quite successful it's a very successful year so what happened was that when that when the president. the president tries to get reelected and he can only do that once now during the period

of the electoral period you know he has to quit and then the treasurer becomes the becomes the president so i was the accidental president for three for these three months accidental supportable but one of the world's most prominent developed economists so after she one must question how close are we in your estimation to a. trade war and how damaging could be to the world economic growth prospects i don't know because. you're an economist so. there is very few things that most economists agree on and that is that a trade war is bad for everybody it is crazy from a point from an economist point of view it's crazy to see how politicians are not only doing certain things that are reacting. you know when donald run.